Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Mulie87 on July 03, 2020, 01:50:18 PM

Title: Help! Stuck case
Post by: Mulie87 on July 03, 2020, 01:50:18 PM
I had cases separation today while shooting my Remington 700 308. I have had this before and the case comes out fine. come out fine. This time it will not. Any tips and tricks on how I can get the case out of the chamber? I have tried cleaning brushed and jags.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: Magnum_Willys on July 03, 2020, 02:26:43 PM
Online they plugged case neck with foamie ear plug, then packed case with steelstik epoxy putty.   Wait an hour then pound out with cleaning rod.   

Iíve used a tap before to grab case neck that separated. 
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: Slenk on July 03, 2020, 02:34:58 PM
Sometimes a rattail file will work if your careful.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: SGTDuffman on July 03, 2020, 03:07:45 PM
You can use the masonry anchors youíd get in something like a picture frame too. Those plastic sleeves you pound into the wall then set a screw into, and it opens up the sleeve. Same thing. If you got one the right size you can put it in the back of the case and get the screw going a little bit to open it up and grab the case, then youíd pound it out from the front w a cleaning rod. Does the same thing the epoxy does, except you probably have one of these sitting around.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: CastleRocker on July 03, 2020, 03:44:56 PM
You said you already tried a bore brush...what size?  I've had several case head separations in my old 340 Wby, and have had the best luck with 12 and 20 guage brass bore brushes inserted from the breech end until I could feel the bristles go past the mouth of the case...then pull back out. 
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: Bill W on July 03, 2020, 04:08:42 PM
I had a threader that fit a broken case body.  I gave it a couple turns in the case body and then used a cleaning rod from the muzzle to thump it out.  Gunsmith back then wanted $25 for removing the case and wouldn't give me the tool afterwards.  I used some extension pieces and a small socket that fit the threader to turn it in the case.

Unless you've already got it out you might give this method a try.  It's relatively cheap and easy to store for the next broken case.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: yorketransport on July 03, 2020, 05:10:12 PM
Soak the chamber in Kroil or some other penetrating oil and then pull an over sized bore brush from muzzle to chamber. If you push an oversized brush through the bore the rod will flex and possibly damage your barrel or just bend the rod and it will break off in your barrel.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: Mulie87 on July 03, 2020, 05:13:36 PM
Ok, I got it out. I used an AR chamber brush👍  Phew!! Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: jasnt on July 03, 2020, 05:45:02 PM
Could you be over sizing your brass?
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: Bill W on July 03, 2020, 08:31:35 PM
Ok, I got it out. I used an AR chamber brush👍  Phew!! Thanks everyone.

use your broken piece to see which tap screws in the end.  Really makes it easy to remove broken stubs.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: Mulie87 on July 03, 2020, 11:11:50 PM
Ooh, good idea. Iíll do that. Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: Mulie87 on July 03, 2020, 11:14:39 PM
These are Nosler brass. I discover cracks around the circumference of the head after about 3-4 reloads. Like today, I wonít be able to see the crack and it separates. If I see a case starting to crack I toss it.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: Magnum_Willys on July 04, 2020, 05:56:44 AM
Iíve had that problem when couldnít get a die that matched the chamber.   Had to bump .007 or more to chamber.   Plus chamber was .011 long so virgin brass was getting stretched a lot on initial forming.   Tried Whidden custom die but die was still not right.   

Can use paper clip trick to check for ridges forming inside to catch it before white line shows outside. 

Was going to put a false shoulder on virgin brass and see if that helped but havenít yet.   Still just reload em 3 times and toss with that rifle. 
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: jasnt on July 04, 2020, 06:26:17 AM
Definitely sounds like over sized brass.  Either poor match for your chamber or set up wrong.  This happens too many times it can flame cut your chamber or worse.  Jme
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: b23 on July 04, 2020, 07:32:43 AM
Get yourself a bushing neck sizing only die and only bump the shoulder back when you have to, problem solved.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: Mulie87 on July 04, 2020, 08:46:43 AM
Ahhh, ok. I always full length resize after each firing. Thatís probobably why they only last a couple loads.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: Magnum_Willys on July 04, 2020, 09:48:10 AM
Ahhh, ok. I always full length resize after each firing. Thatís probobably why they only last a couple loads.

You probably do but if not back off the die and then screw it in and size then try to chamber the round. You want it sized just enuff so your round will chamber in your rifle but no more.    Ideally just .002 shorter than before sized. 
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: buckfvr on July 04, 2020, 11:15:54 AM
Get yourself a bushing neck sizing only die and only bump the shoulder back when you have to, problem solved.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=stop+neck+sizing+your+brass+youtube#id=1&vid=072dcfcc6301d427e859efb492a414f6&action=click

tier one national shooter.

 I have moved on from neck sizing ( over a year ago and so has everyone else I shoot with) because of the very issues he mentions popping up.  I also recommend a case checker gage and you may identify a problem by simply down loading and printing the SAAMI schematic for your cartridge so you can compare measures to be sure the problem isn't the chamber, which I have seen.  I have schematics for everything I load in the event I need to run down a glitch.  Compare measures of fired brass to schematic.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: hunter399 on July 04, 2020, 11:39:14 AM
Before you prime your cases try to chamber your rounds ,if the bolt is hard to close or won't close try resizing again.
After that,if it doesn't chamber. it's trash or annealing your brass will softens the brass to be able to resize again.some will just anneal all there cases after two or three reloads.some people anneal brand new brass out of the gate.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: b23 on July 04, 2020, 01:00:03 PM
Get yourself a bushing neck sizing only die and only bump the shoulder back when you have to, problem solved.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=stop+neck+sizing+your+brass+youtube#id=1&vid=072dcfcc6301d427e859efb492a414f6&action=click

tier one national shooter.

 I have moved on from neck sizing ( over a year ago and so has everyone else I shoot with) because of the very issues he mentions popping up.  I also recommend a case checker gage and you may identify a problem by simply down loading and printing the SAAMI schematic for your cartridge so you can compare measures to be sure the problem isn't the chamber, which I have seen.  I have schematics for everything I load in the event I need to run down a glitch.  Compare measures of fired brass to schematic.
I have no doubt he FL sizes with great success, but shooters at that level are also far more proficient reloaders than the vast majority of recreational shooters are too. 

With all due respect, most recreational reloaders don't really even understand or know what happens with the brass during sizing.  That video assumes a lot and leaves out a great deal of information so it's more of a rant that doesn't really tell the whole story.

Chambers are not all the same, some may be very close, but they often, particularly in factory chambered guns, are slightly different.  I wouldn't recommend anyone size their brass based off of SAAMI specs. 

I use bushing neck size only dies with much of my stuff and FL size with a few others that they don't make a neck size only die for.

To size your brass two, three, or whatever many thou, before, it's reached zero headspace is setting yourself up to get case head separation.  I use the stripped bolt method and measure with calipers and shoulder bump gauges.

Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: Magnum_Willys on July 04, 2020, 01:19:04 PM
 https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=AwrS32Ez4ABf3VkAN8.3mWRH;_ylu=X3oDMTByZ2N0cmxpBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMg--?p=stop+neck+sizing+your+brass+youtube&vid=6291b5bc931dcbb1968f5043e78bffc2&turl=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOVP.uO0gdBQpMAF98TP9uJiUEgEsDh%26pid%3DApi%26h%3D150%26w%3D250%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DXnsuVBwbNJo&tit=STOP+BUMP+SIZING%21+-+How+To+Properly+Setup+Full+Length+Die+For+Precision+Bolt+Action+-+Feel+Method&c=1&h=150&w=250&l=597&sigr=bBqfO_Yp4L53&sigt=zqTKsVrbH9Q3&sigi=_Jo4U.EYwY8a&age=1567394415&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=mcafee&tt=b (https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=AwrS32Ez4ABf3VkAN8.3mWRH;_ylu=X3oDMTByZ2N0cmxpBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMg--?p=stop+neck+sizing+your+brass+youtube&vid=6291b5bc931dcbb1968f5043e78bffc2&turl=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOVP.uO0gdBQpMAF98TP9uJiUEgEsDh%26pid%3DApi%26h%3D150%26w%3D250%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DXnsuVBwbNJo&tit=STOP+BUMP+SIZING%21+-+How+To+Properly+Setup+Full+Length+Die+For+Precision+Bolt+Action+-+Feel+Method&c=1&h=150&w=250&l=597&sigr=bBqfO_Yp4L53&sigt=zqTKsVrbH9Q3&sigi=_Jo4U.EYwY8a&age=1567394415&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=mcafee&tt=b)


This guy swears zero bump and having snug brass is the secret.   Many more shooters recommend the brass fits loose in the chamber ďlike a rat t*rd in a violin caseĒ as a famous shooter was quoted .
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: buckfvr on July 04, 2020, 01:24:03 PM
unless you use custom cut dies, you will be reloading with saami spec as the guideline. What I was hoping to point out is that by using the saami dimensions for reference, you will be able to identify potential problems with a chamber as the fired case can be quite oversized.  One of the guys I know has a custom that has an oversized chamber and he busted 2 Whidden dies before they agreed to there being a problem and made him a custom die based off the fired cases.

I have always fully uniformed my brass to include neck turning and neck sizing until I returned to full length sizing with slight shoulder bump.  I also use some Nosler brass for my 7mm rem mag and that is what made me aware of the limitations of neck only sizing.  However, the Nosler brass doesn't last long for me no matter what, so Id add this op"s problem is typical in that Nosler brass hasn't seemed to last for me atleast.  I have also learned that 2, 3, 4, or even 5k bump will work fine, the big objective is in uniformity as having them all be as close as possible to the same.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: b23 on July 04, 2020, 01:38:30 PM
I also use some Nosler brass for my 7mm rem mag and that is what made me aware of the limitations of neck only sizing. 

I have also learned that 2, 3, 4, or even 5k bump will work fine, the big objective is in uniformity as having them all be as close as possible to the same.

And what do you believe the limitations of neck only sizing are?


Where do you bump them back 2-5 thou from or do you just pick a number between 2 and 5 thou and arbitrarily bump them back that amount?  Are you using calipers and shoulder bump gauges?
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: buckfvr on July 04, 2020, 01:47:25 PM
Of course I use caliper and gauges, and I have tested for results from 2-5k and I have measured immediately after firing and once again when cooled.

Biggest problem I have is eventually you wind up with cases hard to chamber because the case head is oversized at the web and that will eventually lead to separation.  That is why I use case gauges and like to see my reloaded rounds fit fully into the guage.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: b23 on July 04, 2020, 02:04:03 PM
Not trying to be argumentative, but case head separation is caused by a continued cycle of pushing the shoulder back to far then excessive stretching.

Every time you FL size a piece of brass, whether you want it to or not, the brass gets longer from case head to shoulder datum.  It doesn't push it back until the die is screwed down far enough for the shoulder of the brass to come in contact with the shouldered part of the die.  This is why people who think they can take a FL die, back it off, and use it to neck size only, have problems with the brass not chambering in their gun.  It's not that neck sizing only causes the problem, it's that they are trying to use a FL die to neck size only with.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: buckfvr on July 04, 2020, 02:31:28 PM
You got me there, I never have and don't know of anyone else who has tried to neck size with a full length sizing die.  Plus, Ive been reloading since 1975 and never known any one to do so.   Neck sizing only DOES cause the web area of the case to enlarge leading to the problems Ive mentioned.
Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: b23 on July 04, 2020, 02:46:52 PM
Biggest problem I have is eventually you wind up with cases hard to chamber because the case head is oversized at the web and that will eventually lead to separation.

Neck sizing only DOES cause the web area of the case to enlarge leading to the problems Ive mentioned.

So you believe case head separation happens because the brass swells beyond its limits, at the web area, and that's why it breaks in two?

Curious, why do you think neck sizing only, "DOES" cause brass to enlarge at the web area, more than FL sizing?

Title: Re: Help! Stuck case
Post by: jasnt on July 04, 2020, 03:05:07 PM
Iíve neck sized only with fl dies.  Iíve used neck only dies. Eventually I always had to fl size to ease chambering.  Itís no fun bumping your shoulder closing the bolt.  I now fl size everything with .002-3 shoulder bump.  Never had a case head separation except when fire forming with too hot a load.   Jmo based on my experiences.   I have some brass on its 20th loading and 3rd barrel.   Most brass looses the primer pockets before they get too thin if bumped right.  Friend of mine was getting case head separation and so we sat down at his bench with my shoulder bump gages and started figuring out what was going on.  His die set up as the directions stated with one of his shell holders was .014Ē shoulder bump!!!
Tried the next shell holder he had and it was .003 with out moving the die. 
Once you get your shoulder bump set with a particular shell holder mark it. 

I recommend neck sizing for only the first 3 firings. Then shoulder bump .002 or so and use that for the life of the case.  This will give you a true fire form and proper shoulder bump.