Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: ThurstonCokid on October 04, 2020, 11:15:20 AM

Title: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 04, 2020, 11:15:20 AM
So this morning i had a plan to bike into a spot and head into the timber early.. right at first light i spot 2 bedded cows. I get into position and spot a few more cows. 5 minutes go by and out steps a beautiful mature bull. He gives me a perfect 60-70 yard shot opportunity. I stand up, line it up and ďclick.Ē Now i know everyone has their own muzzle loading hunting stories. Being new to muzzleloading Iím looking for advice, was this just a bad primer? Also feel free to comment your bad muzzleloading stories to make me feel a little better! Thanks! (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201004/308877c87c154c946f47f65647ad6e5c.jpg)


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Mfowl on October 04, 2020, 11:25:12 AM
Lame! I've had a few musket caps fail on the range but never an animal. Sorry to hear!
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: The100Road on October 04, 2020, 11:41:38 AM
How far did you throw your rifle?

Could your powder have been wet?
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 04, 2020, 11:45:48 AM
How far did you throw your rifle?

Could your powder have been wet?
Something held me back from throwing the rifle... not sure how i resisted.. Iím 99% sure my powder was try.. had a glove finger over the barrel going in this morning. The primer was in my pocket when i packed my buck out last week.. possibility it got sweaty.. a


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on October 04, 2020, 11:54:14 AM
Bad primer if no ďpopĒ.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Sabotloader on October 04, 2020, 12:04:09 PM
What brand was the primer? And which powder were shooting?
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 04, 2020, 12:11:03 PM
What brand was the primer? And which powder were shooting?
Winchester triple 7 209ís. Hodgdon triple 7 pellets.. there was no pop. Mustíve been primer


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 04, 2020, 12:11:39 PM
What brand was the primer? And which powder were shooting?
Winchester triple 7 209ís. Hodgdon triple 7 pellets.. there was no pop. Mustíve been primer


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Taco280AI on October 04, 2020, 12:25:40 PM
That sucks. I haven't even seen an elk in my area, just tracks. They're not even talking either. The moon isn't helping, don't even need a flashlight it's so bright out.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 04, 2020, 01:11:32 PM
This bull was sniffing hard between 2 cows. Once they spooked they mustíve split up cause he bugled.


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: MountainDevil54 on October 04, 2020, 01:30:37 PM
first off, you're using a cooler primer to set off a  pellet that is harder to ignite. I know the crud ring sucks, and that the T7 primers help tame it a little, but as you found out, the trade off is not worth it.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: cougforester on October 04, 2020, 01:34:33 PM
I've had enough bad experiences with muzzy misfires that I packed my bow yesterday. I know that goes off.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 04, 2020, 01:36:05 PM
first off, you're using a cooler primer to set off a  pellet that is harder to ignite. I know the crud ring sucks, and that the T7 primers help tame it a little, but as you found out, the trade off is not worth it.
What would you recommend?


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Sabotloader on October 04, 2020, 02:10:50 PM
first off, you're using a cooler primer to set off a  pellet that is harder to ignite. I know the crud ring sucks, and that the T7 primers help tame it a little, but as you found out, the trade off is not worth it.
What would you recommend?


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I know you didn't ask me but.... Personally I would use a Winchester W209.  Then next year maybe look at switching to loose T7 or even BH-209. 

What brand of rifle are you using?

Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 04, 2020, 02:28:55 PM
first off, you're using a cooler primer to set off a  pellet that is harder to ignite. I know the crud ring sucks, and that the T7 primers help tame it a little, but as you found out, the trade off is not worth it.
What would you recommend?


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I know you didn't ask me but.... Personally I would use a Winchester W209.  Then next year maybe look at switching to loose T7 or even BH-209. 

What brand of rifle are you using?
Thompson center pro hunter FX


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: The scout on October 04, 2020, 02:36:50 PM
Sounds like bad primer, put another one on and try shooting it is what I would do. Thatís so frustrating though, been there.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 04, 2020, 02:46:37 PM
Yup. Just got to an area i could Fire.. new primer and everything shot smoothly.


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Sabotloader on October 04, 2020, 03:14:31 PM
TC Pro Hunter does have a long BP in the barrel. but it should and does shoot T7 just fine - whether it be loose or pellets.  Somebody with more experience would have to speak to BH-209 with that breech plug.



Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: rut72 on October 04, 2020, 10:14:24 PM
Been muzzleloading 18 years. Once a musket cap comes out of my capping tool or goes on a nipple and gets removed, it gets thrown out. Never had a misfire due to a bad cap. Caps are cheap compared to losing a shot at an animal.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: LDennis24 on October 05, 2020, 06:56:20 AM
First thing I would tell you is don't get drawn in by all the newest garb being advertised for muzzleloading. Some stuff works and it seems like some stuff never does. The Thompson rifle is a great choice. Pellets is not. They suck, I don't care what anyone tells you. They save you seconds in measuring for a reload buy that's it. They allow air pockets to form around your packed load and those pockets will sweat in temperature changes. I hunt with some competition muzzleloader shooters and they HATE pellets. Second of all, if the primer didn't actually "pop" even a little then you got a bad primer. I've been there a few times. On big bulls, and one time a monster mulie buck that I crawled up to in 40mph wind to about 15 yds. It sucks. I've still never shot a bull. Then I tossed out the pellets and went strickly loose powder and I use musket caps. RWS brand is the only brand to use IMO. I couldn't tell you about 209's as I haven't needed to use them. Everything works fine for me with what I mentioned. I like what works, not what's cool or newest. Change things up and try the old methods and new methods both. You'll find the sweet spot.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on October 05, 2020, 08:04:08 AM
I shoot a strikefire and you have to very firmly press musket cap on nipple - pointing in safe direction - or cap wonít go off.  If you shim nipple perfectly you can squeeze it on when closing breech.  With pellts I put a pinch of FFF in before the pellets to guarantee no hangfires or missfires.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: LDennis24 on October 05, 2020, 08:23:21 AM
I shoot a strikefire and you have to very firmly press musket cap on nipple - pointing in safe direction - or cap wonít go off.  If you shim nipple perfectly you can squeeze it on when closing breech.  With pellts I put a pinch of FFF in before the pellets to guarantee no hangfires or missfires.

Sounds like a weird boat anchor...  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 05, 2020, 09:15:42 AM
Hey guys thanks for all the input. The last few years Iíve been switching between rifle and archery, doing pretty good at both, but this year Iíve gotten into muzzleloader. My buddy had this same rifle and i shot and liked it so decided to buy the same one. We took the bullet and powder advice from the sportsmanís warehouse counter guy( ya what was i thinking) but i was able to take a buck at 120 yards, and love the amount of elk Iím seeing this time of year so Iím hooked. Feel free to keep commenting advice, and feel free to message me with more specifics. Thanks once again. Iím headed out after the misfire bill tomorrow, and will be hunting the rest of the season. Will keep updates coming! Thanks again. ThurstonCK


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: duckmen1 on October 05, 2020, 09:25:01 AM
German musket caps with a new cap everytime you go to the woods and pyrodex RS loose powder. Is my choice. Always store powder and caps in a dry place. Never have had a malfunction at the range or field. Make sure you keep everything as dry as possible and have your gun very clean before headed to the woods for season. With some preventative maintenance it can go along way. If I was hunting a couple days in the rain I'll even take the gun apart, clean, and reload. Always making sure the gun is as fresh as can be for the moment the opportunity presents itself. Doing some of these measures although tedious can help bring home that trophy. In your case I think it has been established of a cap failure. Have fun and get back out there to bring home that trophy.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on October 05, 2020, 10:38:22 AM

Sounds like a weird boat anchor...  :chuckle:

 :yeah:  Yep, great , light, accurate rifle when everything is perfect........ 
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Oh Mah on October 05, 2020, 11:10:29 AM
i hate pellet's,will never use them again.  :twocents:

I used pellet's 1 year drew down on a nice 4x5 muley nothing,new primer nothing.took charge out tried burning on a fire pit would not burn.

triple 7 powder from before and forever after.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Russ McDonald on October 05, 2020, 02:24:02 PM
Pellets are a bit different now that 209 primers are legal. 

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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Oh Mah on October 05, 2020, 02:28:58 PM
agreed  :yeah: and regular powder works even better with 209's  :tup:

i just don't can't wont trust my hunt to pellet's ever again.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: GASoline71 on October 06, 2020, 04:59:59 PM
Man, I must be lucky (knock on wood *knock* *knock*)... I have been using pellets and musket caps in a CVA inline since 2000 and have never had a misfire.  I've never changed it up as it has been very reliable.  My CVA is capable of being switched over to 209's, but I kept the musket cap nipple in there and they work great for me.

Gary
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 06, 2020, 05:02:20 PM
Somebody needs to post their muzzleloader horror story before i go crazy.. havenít gotten on any more elk since..


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Moe the Sleaze on October 06, 2020, 05:31:11 PM
Possibly some lint in the cap from being in your pocket?
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: kevinlisa06 on October 06, 2020, 06:17:20 PM
I shoot a Hawkins .54 with loose BP and caps, itís old school but I have never had a misfire.


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: archerykraze on October 09, 2020, 06:31:44 AM
I'll post a story for ya! Hiked in 2.5 miles to a good mule deer spot and spotted a black bear down in the bottom of the draw I was hunting. Put the ole sneak on him all the way to 40-50 yards. Squeezed off a No11 musket cap and the cap went off but no boom. Oddly enough the bear stayed put and I put 3 caps through the gun without any luck eerrr. Bear stood on its hind legs to give me a good look and took off running. Pretty frustrated to say the least but at least I didn't have to pack the bear out of that hole. Hiked the 2.5 miles back to the truck, said what the heck and put another cap through the gun to which the gun went off like normal with no hang fire or nothing. Not sure what caused it but that bear sure had some serious luck that day. Switched to 209's this year and looking at loose powder for next year as I have lost faith in the pellets after that incident even though I haven't had an issue since considering this was like 8 years ago. Good Luck this season!
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Taco280AI on October 09, 2020, 06:39:36 AM
I've had pellets in for 5 days before firing and it went off just fine  :dunno:
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: usmc74 on October 09, 2020, 05:11:05 PM
My nightmare (20 years ago)

Hunting elk in the evening, My Remington 700ML in 54 caliber.

Had a bull come out of the timber.  Aimed at him and fired, just the cap popped.  Lowered to my hip to recap, and the rifle fires (hang fire).

The bull goes back into the timber.

Do a full reload and start moving downhill towards where he was.

The bull comes back out of the timber and I fire again.  The bull flips completely over.

While reloading the bull stands up and walks back into the timber.

Walk towards the location, and I find blood where he was first seen.  I hit with my hangfire!

Then It started to rain hard.  And then it got dark.

My son and I searched and never located him.  Even over the next 2 days.  No blood after the rain and no sign.

It really sucks sometimes.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 09, 2020, 08:24:25 PM
My nightmare (20 years ago)

Hunting elk in the evening, My Remington 700ML in 54 caliber.

Had a bull come out of the timber.  Aimed at him and fired, just the cap popped.  Lowered to my hip to recap, and the rifle fires (hang fire).

The bull goes back into the timber.

Do a full reload and start moving downhill towards where he was.

The bull comes back out of the timber and I fire again.  The bull flips completely over.

While reloading the bull stands up and walks back into the timber.

Walk towards the location, and I find blood where he was first seen.  I hit with my hangfire!

Then It started to rain hard.  And then it got dark.

My son and I searched and never located him.  Even over the next 2 days.  No blood after the rain and no sign.

It really sucks sometimes.
That is a nightmare story.. worse than mine. Thanks for sharing


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: bkaech on October 10, 2020, 06:06:28 AM
My Brother has been Muzzy Elk hunting for 6 years. He has had 3 misfires on bulls, cap went off but powder didn't. Also has had issues the first 2 years shooting at grouse and other stuff just trying to figure out his problem. His muzzeloader finally went off this year on a nice bull, but the blood dried up after a few hundred yards and they tracked it all day with no luck. We were just happy for him that his gun went off.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: LDennis24 on October 10, 2020, 12:20:15 PM
I've had pellets in for 5 days before firing and it went off just fine  :dunno:

This guys getting paid by Pyrodex to say this I'm certain!  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on October 10, 2020, 12:26:11 PM
I've had pellets in for 5 days before firing and it went off just fine  :dunno:

This guys getting paid by Pyrodex to say this I'm certain!  :chuckle:

Iíve had nothing but bad luck with the pyrodex pellets. Inconsistent groups, and delayed firings. Switched to loose triple 7 this year and the gun patterns amazing and goes off when itís supposed to. The pellets are handy, but you wonít catch me shooting them again.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 10, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Looks like Iíll be switching to loose powder. Possibly by late muzzle.. little update i ended up seeing 4 legal bulls after the misfire.. nothing feasible to get on. Some where with 2 minutes of huntable light left, still 500 ish yards off. 5 days saw 5 legal bulls total, and about 40ish total elk. Not bad! Had fun and worked hard. I slept in today lol.


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Buck Rub Jr on October 10, 2020, 03:38:26 PM
Only elk I have ever pulled the trigger on ended up just being a pop not a bang lol
Was just a cow tag though, buddy was able to tag out the next day for his first ever harvest. I still havenít forgiven that muzzleloader though, sheís in the dog house forever. (Even thought it was my fault for not checking the powder after a misty morning.) passed on an opportunity at a single cow with a calf that trip as well. Just wasnít meant to be. Sounds like you had a fun hunt, doubt youíll ever forget it!
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Taco280AI on October 11, 2020, 02:03:40 PM
I've had pellets in for 5 days before firing and it went off just fine  :dunno:

This guys getting paid by Pyrodex to say this I'm certain!  :chuckle:

I wish!
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: CP on October 11, 2020, 04:40:21 PM
I've had pellets in for 5 days before firing and it went off just fine  :dunno:

This guys getting paid by Pyrodex to say this I'm certain!  :chuckle:

I wish!

Iíve loaded my muzzy with loose 777 before early deer season in Sept and fired it after late season in Dec. more often than I care to admit.  Never had a problem (except for the obvious).


Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: muledhunter on October 11, 2020, 07:31:05 PM
First time ever not buying an archery elk tag, we called in a bull during muzzy season to 15 yds broadside. Had two misfires. Literally had time to load another cap.  I debated packing my bow when we heard him bugle but decided not too.....
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: LDennis24 on October 12, 2020, 08:17:16 AM
I've had pellets in for 5 days before firing and it went off just fine  :dunno:

This guys getting paid by Pyrodex to say this I'm certain!  :chuckle:

I wish!

Iíve loaded my muzzy with loose 777 before early deer season in Sept and fired it after late season in Dec. more often than I care to admit.  Never had a problem (except for the obvious).

One of my Thompson's is still loaded from last year and I bet it will go off just fine. Rode behind the seat until about June even! I forgot about it. I've had one loaded in the gun safe before for over a year and took it out and shot it and it shot just fine. When I shoot this other one I'll let everyone know how it goes.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: MountainDevil54 on October 12, 2020, 09:12:05 AM
best thing you hang fire members can do.....
(https://i.postimg.cc/qMyh28GT/20200708-125829.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0b5ysK3W)
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: dilleytech on October 12, 2020, 10:03:07 AM
I have shot muzzys that Sat for a year loaded with loose pyrodex and a cap and they always went off. Only issues I ever had was my original muzzy that would only hit the cap hard enough for it to pop every other shot.  :bash: My current knight bighorn has been 100% so far.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: usmc74 on October 13, 2020, 09:42:35 AM
I went to the range yesterday to see if my rifle would fire. I had fired it 10 days ago and reloaded with a speed loader that was assembled a year ago.  It fired OK, even hit the gong at the 200 yard line. T7 3F loose powder, musket cap.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 13, 2020, 12:32:31 PM
I may switch to 209s now that they are legal, but right now I use 110gr loose FFF and a musket cap.  I stopped using pellets because they won't give you as much velocity and I had reliability issues.

I have zero issues now.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: usmc74 on October 14, 2020, 03:18:12 PM
When My son tried to fire his Bighorn after season, it did not fire.  Multiple musket caps tried.

He was using Pyrodex pellets
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 14, 2020, 03:28:02 PM
When My son tried to fire his Bighorn after season, it did not fire.  Multiple musket caps tried.

He was using Pyrodex pellets

I had problems with pellets.  I strongly recommend loose powder
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: MeatMissile on October 23, 2020, 11:26:41 PM
Iím sorry to hear about this considering I sold you that rifle.  I have another one identical to it.  Iíve been using Federal 209A primers and BH209 powder.  No misfires of any kind and it shoots real clean.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 25, 2020, 03:01:25 PM
Iím sorry to hear about this considering I sold you that rifle.  I have another one identical to it.  Iíve been using Federal 209A primers and BH209 powder.  No misfires of any kind and it shoots real clean.
Iím assuming the primer i used had gotten wet. The rifles been great! Absolutely nothing wrong with this gun. I still appreciate the sale and Iíll use this gun for years to come with confidence!


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: steeleywhopper on October 25, 2020, 03:13:28 PM
I always toss out the cap at the end of each hunt and I always empty the powder and bullet at the end of each day hunting. I know people leave their guns loaded with the same load, but Iím the type of guy that doesnít want to ever have the story you are telling today.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 25, 2020, 03:47:37 PM
I plan on doing many things different next year. Thanks to all these replies. I know i have a lot to learn


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: LDennis24 on October 26, 2020, 08:20:33 AM
Iím sorry to hear about this considering I sold you that rifle.  I have another one identical to it.  Iíve been using Federal 209A primers and BH209 powder.  No misfires of any kind and it shoots real clean.

This would be the proper combination of the 209 system in my opinion. It was designed for it. Try this and see what your results are. A lot of folks never even shoot their muzzleloader in the off season so next spring go find a spot to shoot and see what combo works best and is most consistent. I've even found I can reload quicker if I just leave bullets loose in my pocket, only put powder in speed loads and wear a lanyard capper. You would think I was firing a bolt action some days! Lol
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: gadwall on November 19, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
I've had enough bad experiences with muzzy misfires that I packed my bow yesterday. I know that goes off.

Agreed!  LMAO

Back to the topic.  My buddies and I have tried everything out there over the years.  We all shoot loose T 7 and top grade musket caps and have no problems for a few years now. :twocents:
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: Dirty Mike on November 25, 2020, 09:32:57 PM
I have a encore same as your Fx shoots Bh209 great same as 777. All my guns shoot loose and always will
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: The Big Game Hunter on November 28, 2020, 10:18:24 AM
I plan on doing many things different next year. Thanks to all these replies. I know i have a lot to learn


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A lot of people have given you good advice on how to avoid a similar issue next year.
Here's a comprehensive resource full of best practices I developed over years of hunting with a muzzleloader in Washington. I had to learn a few lessons the hard way, but sometimes those lessons are the ones best remembered.
If you download that E-Book at the link below and follow the advice it contains, I can virtually guarantee that you'll have much better results on your next hunt.
https://muzzleloaders101.com/optin1605117193217
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: MountainDevil54 on November 28, 2020, 11:55:52 AM
3 things to making sure your muzzleloader fires.

Keep the bore dry
Keep the ignition source dry
Use real black powder

If you are using musket caps or #11 caps and then using pellets which is much harder to ignite and absorb moisture quickly, you are asking for trouble. I tested pellets years ago with 209 primers and all brands of pellets even with a hot W209 primer, went up like a roman candle, rather than going bang.

If you want 100% reliable ignition, stop being cheap, hard headed, or what ever you are, and order some real black powder. Use your pellet crap for target fun.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: MIKEXRAY on November 28, 2020, 12:22:54 PM
When I Muzzy hunted years ago I was plagued with misfires.  How I corrected it is after loading a standard loose powder and maxi ball I would pull the nipple out and pour in just a few grains of FFF , then reseat the nipple and place a cap . I also did all of the standard precautions but in my case this corrected my issue forever.
Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on November 28, 2020, 12:43:42 PM
3 things to making sure your muzzleloader fires.

Keep the bore dry
Keep the ignition source dry
Use real black powder

If you are using musket caps or #11 caps and then using pellets which is much harder to ignite and absorb moisture quickly, you are asking for trouble. I tested pellets years ago with 209 primers and all brands of pellets even with a hot W209 primer, went up like a roman candle, rather than going bang.

If you want 100% reliable ignition, stop being cheap, hard headed, or what ever you are, and order some real black powder. Use your pellet crap for target fun.
Cheap isnít the right word.. i drop a dumb amount of $ on this hobby. Stupid is a better word


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Title: Re: Misfire on bull.
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on November 28, 2020, 01:12:23 PM
Anyone ever ignited a pellet and loose powder side by side on the ground? The flash from loose seems so much more intense.