Hunting Washington Forum

Other Hunting => Upland Birds => Topic started by: T-Dozzer on November 04, 2020, 09:36:55 PM

Title: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 04, 2020, 09:36:55 PM
I've been hunting 30 years. Grew up on the Palouse chasing birds. We (Dad) always had phenomenal dogs. Time went on.. I left for school/work & chasing the ditch chickens got less & less and I switched to bigger critters. Dad is 72 and lost what will be his last dog 2 seasons ago.
I'm in North Bend now, but we still have property & lots of access on the Palouse.
I'm an upland hunter at heart & want to get back into it. Including a proper upland dog. Both for me & for our family.
I'm fairly familiar with the tremendous amount of work/investment a good bird dog takes.
My question is... is there any opportunity to train a dog in the Snoqualmie valley & get it on birds or would I have to keep driving East just to keep it on track for training.
Im fine hunting planted birds for the dogs sake, but it does not personally interest me from a hunting perspective.

TIA
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: 2MANY on November 04, 2020, 11:50:29 PM
When I raise a bird dog I raise pheasants too.
Problem solved.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: bracer40 on November 05, 2020, 04:40:16 AM
Iíve decided I wonít raise another dog unless I have the right amount of space to raise homer pigeons along with the dog. You might be in a place where you could do that AND train in the valley.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: MR5x5 on November 05, 2020, 07:41:41 AM
Canine Country Club out in Fall City is worth a look - the valley does a lot of duck dogs - but a buddy of mine had them train up his Musterlander some years back and he was very happy with them.

Regarding training - I've never formally trained any of my dogs and they have all been pheasant hunting machines. I do hunt them pretty much every other week during the season and they get daily big exercise that includes communicating with them. I'm currently running English Setters out of Cook Canyon but have also ran Wirehairs and short hairs.  Hunting is in their blood.  In my opinion, if you can get them solid with basic come, sit, stay you are 90+% there.  You might not win the "pinky's out" style contest but you will get birds.  You grew up in the Palouse, so you know where the birds are in this state.

Don't overthink it.  Get good blood lines.

Good luck out there.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: merkelman on November 05, 2020, 09:18:33 AM
Sagebrush Gun Dogs is no longer training as Scott retired.  But Colockum Gun Dogs is a great option.  They are located in Ellensburg, WA and does a great job.  Well worth having a pro get your dog started. 
Typically replies within a few hours
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colockumgundogs@outlook.com
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 05, 2020, 09:50:49 AM
Thanks, guys.
Probably leaning towards a lab, but entertaining a GSH. Not sure I can keep up with their energy though. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: Dhoey07 on November 05, 2020, 10:16:21 AM
Raise a family dog and take it out.  Most will pick it up without formal training.  IF they don't, you'll have a nice family dog around the house.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: Caseyd on November 05, 2020, 10:24:49 AM
Stillwater site in carnation releases birds, not to far from your house. Not my preferred upland hunting but the dogs never seem to mind  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 05, 2020, 10:26:27 AM
Stillwater site in carnation releases birds, not to far from your house. Not my preferred upland hunting but the dogs never seem to mind  :chuckle:

Haven't been there in years. Was busy, butbthstbisva not a bad idea. Thanks
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: Special T on November 05, 2020, 10:29:28 AM
HappyGilmore on here is part of a training club that utilizes Cherry valley. Another group meets in monroe HRC hunting retriver club i belive is the name. Join one of these groups and you wont have to do it  alone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: MR5x5 on November 05, 2020, 10:31:57 AM
Stillwater site in carnation releases birds, not to far from your house. Not my preferred upland hunting but the dogs never seem to mind  :chuckle:

Haven't been there in years. Was busy, butbthstbisva not a bad idea. Thanks

Just be sure to bring extra safety glasses, a flack jacket, helmet and a stealth cam to watch your vehicle!  :bash:
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: Birdguy on November 05, 2020, 11:03:52 AM
HappyGilmore on here is part of a training club that utilizes Cherry valley. Another group meets in monroe HRC hunting retriver club i belive is the name. Join one of these groups and you wont have to do it  alone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 :yeah: Have a good friend who lived in Issaquah and trained champion GSP out of that area. A small flock of homers is a huge asset. I know a guy who will have other gamebirds on occasion  8). But I do not see an big issues with your plan, you only live once if you have access to property in bird country I would say do it!
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 05, 2020, 11:12:37 AM
HappyGilmore on here is part of a training club that utilizes Cherry valley. Another group meets in monroe HRC hunting retriver club i belive is the name. Join one of these groups and you wont have to do it  alone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Great info. Thx!
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: RockCreek on November 05, 2020, 12:02:48 PM
T-Dozzer,   Ever considered a German Wirehair?  You mentioned Lab or GSP  .. Iv'e had both plus Chessie's.  Wirehairs are very versatile dogs on upland and water plus great family dogs.   And they have a unique personality..  kinda goofy like a lot of Labs ( not a dig on Labs.. i mean playful/friendly) but all business when the prey drive kicks in. Just an idea... 
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: MR5x5 on November 05, 2020, 12:14:26 PM
 :tup:

GWPs are great - pointing and retrieving machines - consider looking for a smaller one, 60lb range, if you are going to focus on upland.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: Big6bull on November 05, 2020, 07:00:06 PM
For what itís worth Here in sw wa Iím training my first pudelpointer. Iím a rookie but Iím finding the pheasant release sites are turning into a perfect training ground for both me and my dog. Usually always find a bird or two in a couple hours of training/hunting. Mid day have the place to our selves.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: aaronoto on November 05, 2020, 08:14:11 PM
I'd say you'd have it better than most westside bird dog owners, it's not a far hop from North Bend to to the east side.  As a westside bird dog owner in a really bad spot (Whatcom county) I can say it's tough to justify owning one with all the work they require and the fact that wild birds are a 4 hour minimum drive....  Pheasant release sites are plentiful, but I go for the dog only, I don't get pumped about release birds.  Get a versatile breed and run it for waterfowl and grouse and you can get a little more use out of them over here.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: Special T on November 05, 2020, 09:39:08 PM
I'd say you'd have it better than most westside bird dog owners, it's not a far hop from North Bend to to the east side.  As a westside bird dog owner in a really bad spot (Whatcom county) I can say it's tough to justify owning one with all the work they require and the fact that wild birds are a 4 hour minimum drive....  Pheasant release sites are plentiful, but I go for the dog only, I don't get pumped about release birds.  Get a versatile breed and run it for waterfowl and grouse and you can get a little more use out of them over here.

Lake Terrel is a pretty good location as is Intelco but they need some mowing bad!

If you want a versatile breed consider a German Wirehair Pointer. My hunting partner runs them and they are damned good all purpose dogs. Uplands training will be easy. holding them still when duck hunting on land will be the challenge.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 07, 2020, 02:31:32 PM
T-Dozzer,   Ever considered a German Wirehair?  You mentioned Lab or GSP  .. Iv'e had both plus Chessie's.  Wirehairs are very versatile dogs on upland and water plus great family dogs.   And they have a unique personality..  kinda goofy like a lot of Labs ( not a dig on Labs.. i mean playful/friendly) but all business when the prey drive kicks in. Just an idea...

I have not, but Im not opposed to it. Don't know much about them.
Wife & kids want a chocolate lab and Ide prefer a black or yellow.
I lean towards labs because thats all we've ever had.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 09, 2020, 01:11:23 PM
Anyone have any experience with Tiger Mountain Labs out of Ellensburg?

http://www.pointinglabs.com/pages/home
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: MR5x5 on November 09, 2020, 02:10:54 PM
Anyone have any experience with Tiger Mountain Labs out of Ellensburg?

http://www.pointinglabs.com/pages/home

I have hunted with some of their dogs.  Not bad at all.  Pointing labs can be an adventure.  If you go that route be sure to get a small narrow shouldered version for upland - like the breed back in the Dakotas.  Big wide labs simply can't work a lot of the Palouse cover/steepness. My 80lb GWP struggled with the Palouse at times too.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 09, 2020, 02:25:39 PM
Anyone have any experience with Tiger Mountain Labs out of Ellensburg?

http://www.pointinglabs.com/pages/home

I have hunted with some of their dogs.  Not bad at all.  Pointing labs can be an adventure.  If you go that route be sure to get a small narrow shouldered version for upland - like the breed back in the Dakotas.  Big wide labs simply can't work a lot of the Palouse cover/steepness. My 80lb GWP struggled with the Palouse at times too.

 :tup:
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 28, 2020, 10:03:26 PM
Anyone have experience with the Drahthaar breed? Similar to the wire hair.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: 3dvapor on November 28, 2020, 10:14:22 PM
yeah, great credentials.  The guys that breed them put a ton of time in the breed.  I have two!
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 28, 2020, 10:18:14 PM
yeah, great credentials.  The guys that breed them put a ton of time in the breed.  I have two!

Is it hard to find pups from a reputable breeder within driving distance?
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: 3dvapor on November 29, 2020, 01:25:56 AM
yeah mine are out of red rock drahthaar in utah.  Thats where the trials are centered around there and idaho it seems. Remember though any dog is a huge commitment so i personally want the best chance of getting a quality bird dog as i can get.  I believe i get that with these dogs.  Blood trailing big game or dead pheasants across an icy river.  My dog has done it.
 
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 29, 2020, 05:46:48 AM
yeah mine are out of red rock drahthaar in utah.  Thats where the trials are centered around there and idaho it seems. Remember though any dog is a huge commitment so i personally want the best chance of getting a quality bird dog as i can get.  I believe i get that with these dogs.  Blood trailing big game or dead pheasants across an icy river.  My dog has done it.
 

Whar made you choose the Drahtaar over the more common wire hair?
Is there a big difference between the 2 or is a regional thing?
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: MR5x5 on November 29, 2020, 08:53:48 AM
yeah mine are out of red rock drahthaar in utah.  Thats where the trials are centered around there and idaho it seems. Remember though any dog is a huge commitment so i personally want the best chance of getting a quality bird dog as i can get.  I believe i get that with these dogs.  Blood trailing big game or dead pheasants across an icy river.  My dog has done it.
 

Whar made you choose the Drahtaar over the more common wire hair?
Is there a big difference between the 2 or is a regional thing?

"The American Kennel Club requires that both parent dogs be purebred of the German Wirehaired breed. On the other hand, the Verein Deutsch-Drahthaar require the parents to have passed several tests in the program before being bred. If they do not pass those tests, that dog will not be used to carry on the standards of the breed. This is the largest and most measurable distinction between the two breeds."
 
If you go the GWP route and get good hunting lineage you could argue there is no difference.  I'd say go with whatever breeder you are happiest with.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: salish on November 30, 2020, 10:28:14 AM
In the early 2000's I took my Lewellin setter to Canine Country Club/Carlson's Kennels) in Fall City for upland training. They have always had a person who is either dedicated to upland dogs, or is well versed on upland dog training, even though their focus is on labs. I have a relative who has recently had his English setter trained there and he is pleased. I've always liked their operation, especially Carol, who pretty much ran the kennel (we also boarded our dogs there is we went out of town). I envy your location for a quick getaway to the east side. I'm in Seattle and I can be drudgery.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: T-Dozzer on November 30, 2020, 07:22:42 PM
In the early 2000's I took my Lewellin setter to Canine Country Club/Carlson's Kennels) in Fall City for upland training. They have always had a person who is either dedicated to upland dogs, or is well versed on upland dog training, even though their focus is on labs. I have a relative who has recently had his English setter trained there and he is pleased. I've always liked their operation, especially Carol, who pretty much ran the kennel (we also boarded our dogs there is we went out of town). I envy your location for a quick getaway to the east side. I'm in Seattle and I can be drudgery.

Great info. Close.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: Special T on November 30, 2020, 09:32:08 PM
yeah mine are out of red rock drahthaar in utah.  Thats where the trials are centered around there and idaho it seems. Remember though any dog is a huge commitment so i personally want the best chance of getting a quality bird dog as i can get.  I believe i get that with these dogs.  Blood trailing big game or dead pheasants across an icy river.  My dog has done it.
 

Whar made you choose the Drahtaar over the more common wire hair?
Is there a big difference between the 2 or is a regional thing?

"The American Kennel Club requires that both parent dogs be purebred of the German Wirehaired breed. On the other hand, the Verein Deutsch-Drahthaar require the parents to have passed several tests in the program before being bred. If they do not pass those tests, that dog will not be used to carry on the standards of the breed. This is the largest and most measurable distinction between the two breeds."
 
If you go the GWP route and get good hunting lineage you could argue there is no difference.  I'd say go with whatever breeder you are happiest with.

 :yeah:

Differentiation with out a difference.
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: Malitia T. on December 01, 2020, 09:09:07 PM
If you're interested I have a batch of Labrador puppies, I have a few that are available. They are the leaner american labs. The sire is out of tiger mountain stock and the mom is a pointer and a real good upland and water dog. I got the mom because I was having the same concerns/thoughts about what dog to get. I've had GWP, Drahthaar, Brittanies and labs and like certain things about all of them. The last dog I had was a Lab/GSP cross and a great dog also
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: T-Dozzer on December 01, 2020, 09:11:32 PM
If you're interested I have a batch of Labrador puppies, I have a few that are available. They are the leaner american labs. The sire is out of tiger mountain stock and the mom is a pointer and a real good upland and water dog. I got the mom because I was having the same concerns/thoughts about what dog to get. I've had GWP, Drahthaar, Brittanies and labs and like certain things about all of them. The last dog I had was a Lab/GSP cross and a great dog also

What didn't you like about the Drahthaar?
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: Malitia T. on December 01, 2020, 09:20:35 PM
As far as an upland dog theres not much to dislike. She couldn't resist a porcupine, 3 times on 1 weekend, and lots of quills each time. She wasn't really a super great family dog, she was nice but just business, but that could have just been her personality. I like to duck also and she wasn't a great retriever or water dog. She was given to us when she was about 5 and was fully trained and had been trained for upland. She was a great pointer
Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: bracer40 on December 01, 2020, 09:34:16 PM
yeah mine are out of red rock drahthaar in utah.  Thats where the trials are centered around there and idaho it seems. Remember though any dog is a huge commitment so i personally want the best chance of getting a quality bird dog as i can get.  I believe i get that with these dogs.  Blood trailing big game or dead pheasants across an icy river.  My dog has done it.
 

Whar made you choose the Drahtaar over the more common wire hair?
Is there a big difference between the 2 or is a regional thing?

"The American Kennel Club requires that both parent dogs be purebred of the German Wirehaired breed. On the other hand, the Verein Deutsch-Drahthaar require the parents to have passed several tests in the program before being bred. If they do not pass those tests, that dog will not be used to carry on the standards of the breed. This is the largest and most measurable distinction between the two breeds."
 
If you go the GWP route and get good hunting lineage you could argue there is no difference.  I'd say go with whatever breeder you are happiest with.

 :yeah:

Differentiation with out a difference.

Strongly agree with this! As well as the lineage comments above. Iíve trained and paid for training  with Brittanies, followed plenty of other folks Iíve hunted with and or who who hunt tested, field trialed various breeds and I found all of them to hold blood lines as the most important criteria for choosing a breeder...of course, the right breeders also respect the animals and build the value of that line and individual dogs...

Labs are great family and bird dogs, so are GWPís, (as well as lots of Brits, setters, some Vizlas, Weimers, Poodles, Pudlepointers).
Lots of cool choices...another thing to consider is what sort of potential are you and the dog facing for health issues? Lots of issues with the more popular breeds....why?   Well...unfortunately (sorry, you may already be aware of this), thereís money to be made in breeding popular dogs...and that overbreeding brings health issues.

My GF has a wire haired pointing griffon, lovely dog, but for crying out loud he has some issues! Several physical, as well as behavioral ( Not due to training/ conditioning as he grew up with my Brit, whoís  one of the chillest, loving dogs Iíve ever been around and I do most of the training.) But almost immediately after she got that dog from the breeder we started learning that they were a glorified puppy mill with good down home marketing...

To circle back: if I was considering one of the larger versatile breeds such as the GWP, iíd Seriously look into the  Verein Deutsch-Drahthaar.

Good luck!

Title: Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
Post by: RGB on December 21, 2020, 11:19:51 AM
Anyone have any experience with Tiger Mountain Labs out of Ellensburg?

http://www.pointinglabs.com/pages/home

My last dog was from this kennel. He was one of the best dogs I have ever had. I'm running a Brittany now that replaced the lab.