Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: Bone collector 13 on February 13, 2021, 09:00:05 PM

Title: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Bone collector 13 on February 13, 2021, 09:00:05 PM
48k at the hunt expo, and 3 deer went for 75k. Does anyone know either of those tag holders? They could definitely break the state record if they play their cards right  :tup:
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Rainier10 on February 13, 2021, 09:41:58 PM
I thought 3deer went for $70,000.

Crazy money being spent this year, sheep, mule deer and 3deer all set records.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: huntnphool on February 13, 2021, 09:44:04 PM
I thought 3deer went for $70,000.

Crazy money being spent this year, sheep, mule deer and 3deer all set records.

 It was $70k
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Rainier10 on February 13, 2021, 09:58:57 PM
West elk is up next. Should be interesting to see what it goes for.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: jackelope on February 13, 2021, 10:17:37 PM
I hear a guy from California bought the mule deer tag.
Can’t confirm or deny that.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Ridgerunner on February 14, 2021, 01:44:54 PM
All that “free money”


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Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: trophyhunt on February 14, 2021, 02:35:46 PM
Can we watch live somewhere?
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: M_ray on February 14, 2021, 02:40:44 PM
Can we watch live somewhere?

It’s over it was Friday and Saturday nights.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: time2hunt on February 15, 2021, 01:55:24 PM
I think he talking west side elk raffle ?? Not sure who doing that auction maybe Rainier10 has some incite on  it


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Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: time2hunt on February 15, 2021, 01:57:34 PM
The live auctions have been crazy this year lots of big money being spent. Sound like the Mossback boys bought the mule deer tag for Washington for someone.


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Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Rainier10 on February 15, 2021, 02:01:48 PM
I don’t know who got the mule deer tag but you are spot on with the crazy money being spent.

West elk is up next and I’m guessing it will set a record as well.

Here is the link to Westside elk auction.

https://www.onlinehuntingauctions.com/item.aspx?i=39794352

You can enter your max bid now or wait until March 13th and place a bid then.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: OutHouse on February 16, 2021, 01:42:57 PM
I hear a guy from California bought the mule deer tag.
Can’t confirm or deny that.

He probably could have done four or five trophy mule deer hunts in Canada for that money. Hope he makes it worth it.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Ridgerunner on February 16, 2021, 01:48:53 PM
I dont get spending that kind of dough here on a mule deer tag especially for an out of stater.  I'd go to the Jicarilla 2-3 times for that price and shoot deer bigger than what he'd kill up here. 
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: dvolmer on February 16, 2021, 01:57:33 PM
I dont get spending that kind of dough here on a mule deer tag especially for an out of stater.  I'd go to the Jicarilla 2-3 times for that price and shoot deer bigger than what he'd kill up here.
I totally agree with you but you need to look at it from his point of view.  He probably already hunts Jicarilla regularly with the funds that he has.  He probably has more money than he will ever spend in his lifetime.  He probably has some guide, outfitter, or landowner showing him a picture of a massive buck on private land or in some deep dark hole in National Forest during the rut and for a small finders fee $$$$$$$$$ they will take him to it next year during the rut.  Way out of my price range and my thought process but then again, I don't have more money than I know what to do with either.  :twocents:
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: meatwhack on February 16, 2021, 03:41:39 PM
Most of the time these tags are a tax write off also since they’re donated to conservation groups. It’s inner circle back scratching for the wealthy.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 16, 2021, 03:46:55 PM
If it helps wildlife conservation, all power to them. I hope to someday make the kind of money it takes for that to be "extra".
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: huntnphool on February 16, 2021, 10:45:24 PM
 Some of you are blinded by jealousy!

 A lot of local bidders look at it as a tag that allows you to hunt every day, whenever or wherever you feel like it, until the end of the calendar year. Sure they are hoping to tag a giant/“trophy”, but just the fact of being able to grab your weapon and hit the woods after or before work for a hour or two, is worth the price of the tag. :twocents:
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 17, 2021, 05:42:33 AM
Or not even have to work but go out and hunt till the end of the year would be nice
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: nwhunter on February 17, 2021, 07:46:56 AM
It might surprise some of you that these guys that like to buy these auction tags work every day and aren't trust fund guys sitting home on the couch... Most that I know work harder than most and have been smart enough with their money to be able to buy things they enjoy and these tags allow them to hunt more days and when they want.. I understand the different opinions on these tags and all that but most of the guys that buy them are good guys...
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: OutHouse on February 17, 2021, 08:39:27 AM
I have no animosity toward these tag buyers I just think to myself "Wow! I could have four mule deer for that kind of money". Its great the money goes to conservation.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: opdinkslayer on February 17, 2021, 08:43:16 AM
What really pizz’s me off is the guys that get to go along with the guy with deep pockets that bought the tag & get the same experience other than pulling the trigger & hanging it on the wall!🙄 :chuckle:    Couldn’t resist Scotty :chuckle:
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 17, 2021, 08:44:36 AM
I think it is due in part to travel restrictions.  If these guys can't go spend $100-200K in Africa/New Zealand/Canada and still want to hunt critters with flexible seasons and a good shot of getting something big, then why not spend a year at home?
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on February 17, 2021, 09:08:19 AM
i wish there was a law saying that if 48k from this tag goes directly to the mule deer budget, then the administration can not subtract 48k that was previously allocated to muledeer for the year.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Rainier10 on February 17, 2021, 02:21:41 PM
Most of the time these tags are a tax write off also since they’re donated to conservation groups. It’s inner circle back scratching for the wealthy.
Auction tags are what this thread is about and I don't want to muddy the waters with raffle tag tax implications, those are trickier.

Auction tags are being bought for more than an elk tag normally sells for so everything over the price of a regular elk tag is considered a donation.  Whatever you donate comes off of your income because it is no longer income.  Most guys that are bidding on these tags are in the highest tax bracket so every $100,000 they make during the year they pay $37,000 to the government in income taxes.  If you spend $100,000 on an auction tag $100,000 still comes out of your pocket but the feds don't get the $37,000.  That $37,000 was gone no matter what when they made the money so in their mind the tag only cost them $63,000 because they were never going to see the $37,000 anyways.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Rainier10 on February 17, 2021, 02:34:10 PM
Some of you are blinded by jealousy!

 A lot of local bidders look at it as a tag that allows you to hunt every day, whenever or wherever you feel like it, until the end of the calendar year. Sure they are hoping to tag a giant/“trophy”, but just the fact of being able to grab your weapon and hit the woods after or before work for a hour or two, is worth the price of the tag. :twocents:

This is why I would think the auction tags have the inflated value.  It's almost like you read my mind.  :chuckle:  I have been on out of state hunts and having to make travel arrangements weeks in advance and then being on a schedule to get it done before your time runs out sucks.  Being able to hunt when you want at a moments notice and not having to leave the state is a huge bonus.  Plus you can have multiple buddies tag along on different days.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: idahohuntr on February 17, 2021, 04:02:55 PM
Most of the time these tags are a tax write off also since they’re donated to conservation groups. It’s inner circle back scratching for the wealthy.
Auction tags are what this thread is about and I don't want to muddy the waters with raffle tag tax implications, those are trickier.

Auction tags are being bought for more than an elk tag normally sells for so everything over the price of a regular elk tag is considered a donation.  Whatever you donate comes off of your income because it is no longer income.  Most guys that are bidding on these tags are in the highest tax bracket so every $100,000 they make during the year they pay $37,000 to the government in income taxes.  If you spend $100,000 on an auction tag $100,000 still comes out of your pocket but the feds don't get the $37,000.  That $37,000 was gone no matter what when they made the money so in their mind the tag only cost them $63,000 because they were never going to see the $37,000 anyways.
Is that really consistent with tax law? 

I'm sure people do it all the time, and chances of getting caught/audited, and an auditor being savvy to western big game tags is low...probably nearly non-existent...but if someone buys a governors tag for 100k and suggests the FMV is the price of a regular tag for that species...that doesn't seem right. A sheep draw tag costs $332 in WA.  I find it hard to believe that someone buying a sheep auction tag could make a legal case that everything they paid over $332 is a donation.  Now, someone who buys a general season WA eastern modern firearm elk tag (the same one anyone can buy) at some auction...any amount they pay over $50.90 (the standalone resident price)...I would see that as a donation that could be claimed...but not these tags which provide an extremely limited opportunity to very valuable wildlife (e.g., governors tags).
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Rainier10 on February 17, 2021, 04:48:49 PM
I would contact your own tax preparer to confirm their opinion as it applies to your finances.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: jjhunter on February 17, 2021, 05:29:05 PM
Most of the time these tags are a tax write off also since they’re donated to conservation groups. It’s inner circle back scratching for the wealthy.
Auction tags are what this thread is about and I don't want to muddy the waters with raffle tag tax implications, those are trickier.

Auction tags are being bought for more than an elk tag normally sells for so everything over the price of a regular elk tag is considered a donation.  Whatever you donate comes off of your income because it is no longer income.  Most guys that are bidding on these tags are in the highest tax bracket so every $100,000 they make during the year they pay $37,000 to the government in income taxes.  If you spend $100,000 on an auction tag $100,000 still comes out of your pocket but the feds don't get the $37,000.  That $37,000 was gone no matter what when they made the money so in their mind the tag only cost them $63,000 because they were never going to see the $37,000 anyways.
Is that really consistent with tax law? 

I'm sure people do it all the time, and chances of getting caught/audited, and an auditor being savvy to western big game tags is low...probably nearly non-existent...but if someone buys a governors tag for 100k and suggests the FMV is the price of a regular tag for that species...that doesn't seem right. A sheep draw tag costs $332 in WA.  I find it hard to believe that someone buying a sheep auction tag could make a legal case that everything they paid over $332 is a donation.  Now, someone who buys a general season WA eastern modern firearm elk tag (the same one anyone can buy) at some auction...any amount they pay over $50.90 (the standalone resident price)...I would see that as a donation that could be claimed...but not these tags which provide an extremely limited opportunity to very valuable wildlife (e.g., governors tags).


This!  From my federal taxation coursework, the basis is FMV.   You’d have to show that you paid more than FMV to write off the diff.  With tag sales there is sales history to establish relative FMV. I did not  attempt to use my Gov tag as a write off as I bought it at a relative bargain compared to historic sales.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: idahohuntr on February 17, 2021, 05:54:47 PM
I would contact your own tax preparer to confirm their opinion as it applies to your finances.
Have you talked to anyone familiar with tax law that thinks what you said earlier is legal though? 

You said, "Auction tags are being bought for more than an elk tag normally sells for so everything over the price of a regular elk tag is considered a donation."

I'm not trying to pick on you or your statements here...it's just inconsistent with the minimal knowledge I have of tax law.  As JJ notes, it seems the FMV of the tag is the basis for which a donation would be determined...so I am curious if tax savvy folks are just being really 'flexible' on the law and not being challenged in an audit...or if there is some precedent or loophole that is justifying such a determination?

Surely nobody knowledgeable of western big game hunting would suggest the FMV of say an eastern wa elk permit for any bull, any weapon, nearly every unit Sep 1-Dec 31 is $50.90?
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Alchase on February 17, 2021, 06:21:42 PM
Sorry to disagree, I do not believe these bidders are being "altruistic" in any way shape or form. If they were, they would donate the money.
They just have the means to pay exorbitant prices to hunt when they want and where they want.
That does not make them good or bad necessarily, it makes them wealthy.

To disagree with auction tags, does not make you "jealous, of those who can afford them" it questions the "pay-to play" mentality all big game hunting is heading towards.

 :bash:
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Bob33 on February 17, 2021, 06:29:04 PM
I would contact your own tax preparer to confirm their opinion as it applies to your finances.
Have you talked to anyone familiar with tax law that thinks what you said earlier is legal though? 

You said, "Auction tags are being bought for more than an elk tag normally sells for so everything over the price of a regular elk tag is considered a donation."

I'm not trying to pick on you or your statements here...it's just inconsistent with the minimal knowledge I have of tax law.  As JJ notes, it seems the FMV of the tag is the basis for which a donation would be determined...so I am curious if tax savvy folks are just being really 'flexible' on the law and not being challenged in an audit...or if there is some precedent or loophole that is justifying such a determination?

Surely nobody knowledgeable of western big game hunting would suggest the FMV of say an eastern wa elk permit for any bull, any weapon, nearly every unit Sep 1-Dec 31 is $50.90?
The basis for determining how much of the purchase is considered a donation is the fair market value of the item. The fair market value of an auction tag would usually be more than the nominal cost of a specie tag. In fact, if there are multiple bidders for the auction item that would be a pretty good indication of its market value.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 17, 2021, 06:31:23 PM
I would contact your own tax preparer to confirm their opinion as it applies to your finances.
Have you talked to anyone familiar with tax law that thinks what you said earlier is legal though? 

You said, "Auction tags are being bought for more than an elk tag normally sells for so everything over the price of a regular elk tag is considered a donation."

I'm not trying to pick on you or your statements here...it's just inconsistent with the minimal knowledge I have of tax law.  As JJ notes, it seems the FMV of the tag is the basis for which a donation would be determined...so I am curious if tax savvy folks are just being really 'flexible' on the law and not being challenged in an audit...or if there is some precedent or loophole that is justifying such a determination?

Surely nobody knowledgeable of western big game hunting would suggest the FMV of say an eastern wa elk permit for any bull, any weapon, nearly every unit Sep 1-Dec 31 is $50.90?
The basis for determining how much of the purchase is considered a donation is the fair market value of the item. The fair market value of an auction tag would usually be more than the nominal cost of a specie tag. In fact, if there are multiple bidders for the auction item that would be a pretty good indication of its market value.
I would guess have to compare states for similar species gov tag and also historical prices.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Rainier10 on February 17, 2021, 06:34:57 PM
I would contact your own tax preparer to confirm their opinion as it applies to your finances.
Have you talked to anyone familiar with tax law that thinks what you said earlier is legal though? 

You said, "Auction tags are being bought for more than an elk tag normally sells for so everything over the price of a regular elk tag is considered a donation."

I'm not trying to pick on you or your statements here...it's just inconsistent with the minimal knowledge I have of tax law.  As JJ notes, it seems the FMV of the tag is the basis for which a donation would be determined...so I am curious if tax savvy folks are just being really 'flexible' on the law and not being challenged in an audit...or if there is some precedent or loophole that is justifying such a determination?

Surely nobody knowledgeable of western big game hunting would suggest the FMV of say an eastern wa elk permit for any bull, any weapon, nearly every unit Sep 1-Dec 31 is $50.90?
yes I spoke with my advisor about the auction tags and raffle tags. His opinion was that raffles were a gambling venture and I could only use raffle ticket purchases to offset gambling winnings.

Auction tag purchases however could be deducted from my income tax liability. He did say that it was open to interpretation and how much of that was deductible was uncertain. Putting a value on the tag itself versus what I paid over that value could be argued. Best case you say an elk tag costs $50 and I paid $75,000. Worst case I argue that the auction tag averages $42,000 since its inception and I get to deduct the difference. I have yet to win an auction as JJ has so I have not had to cross that bridge yet.

Again if you are going to play the auction or raffle games I would strongly suggest you get advise from your own tax advisor and then way the risk versus reward on how you apply any purchases to your own tax filing.

Also I would not look at the auctions as the best way to lower your tax burden. There are way better charitable donations that I participate in to lower my tax burden and feel like I’m making real change in people’s lives.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Flaming Antler Outdoors on March 08, 2021, 09:40:15 AM
Washington RCW's probably guide the rules around raffles and might say what is eligible for write off. 
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 08, 2021, 11:52:32 AM
i wish there was a law saying that if 48k from this tag goes directly to the mule deer budget, then the administration can not subtract 48k that was previously allocated to muledeer for the year.

That kind of defeats the purpose of the auction - to raise ADDITIONAL funds for conservation. Most of us can't afford the auction price of these tags. The fact that someone can and therefore, puts additional funds into conservation, benefits us all.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: trophyhunt on March 08, 2021, 12:15:26 PM
The west side elk tag still has 5 days to be bid on, its at 27,500.  Did the east side tag end yet?  how much if so?
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on March 08, 2021, 12:33:04 PM
i wish there was a law saying that if 48k from this tag goes directly to the mule deer budget, then the administration can not subtract 48k that was previously allocated to muledeer for the year.

That kind of defeats the purpose of the auction - to raise ADDITIONAL funds for conservation. Most of us can't afford the auction price of these tags. The fact that someone can and therefore, puts additional funds into conservation, benefits us all.

i bet it happens more than we think
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Rainier10 on March 08, 2021, 01:38:20 PM
The west side elk tag still has 5 days to be bid on, its at 27,500.  Did the east side tag end yet?  how much if so?
Current bid is $25,000 for west side elk, Norden1 has had it since it started out at $10,000.  It goes up by $2,500 each time someone bids.  Not sure what Norden1's max bid is.  2017 is the record high for that tag at $27,000.  My guess is that record gets broken Saturday night.

East side tag goes up for bids April 6-8 online.  My guess is it might take $100,000 to get it this year.  Ticker was rolling up out of control from $75,000 up to $84,000 when time expired, who knows how high it would have gone.

Whitetail and Blacktail deer are on the auction block this weekend too.  Those you either have to phone in or be on a zoom call for.  I don't think there is a way to view the auction without contacting them.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: trophyhunt on March 08, 2021, 02:13:49 PM
Interesting, man it would be fun to bid for those tags, just need someone else’s credit card!!!!   Lol
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: jjhunter on March 08, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
The west side elk tag still has 5 days to be bid on, its at 27,500.  Did the east side tag end yet?  how much if so?
Current bid is $25,000 for west side elk, Norden1 has had it since it started out at $10,000.  It goes up by $2,500 each time someone bids.  Not sure what Norden1's max bid is.  2017 is the record high for that tag at $27,000.  My guess is that record gets broken Saturday night.

East side tag goes up for bids April 6-8 online.  My guess is it might take $100,000 to get it this year.  Ticker was rolling up out of control from $75,000 up to $84,000 when time expired, who knows how high it would have gone.

Whitetail and Blacktail deer are on the auction block this weekend too.  Those you either have to phone in or be on a zoom call for.  I don't think there is a way to view the auction without contacting them.

I’m signed up for zoom call.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Rainier10 on March 08, 2021, 02:30:22 PM
The west side elk tag still has 5 days to be bid on, its at 27,500.  Did the east side tag end yet?  how much if so?
Current bid is $25,000 for west side elk, Norden1 has had it since it started out at $10,000.  It goes up by $2,500 each time someone bids.  Not sure what Norden1's max bid is.  2017 is the record high for that tag at $27,000.  My guess is that record gets broken Saturday night.

East side tag goes up for bids April 6-8 online.  My guess is it might take $100,000 to get it this year.  Ticker was rolling up out of control from $75,000 up to $84,000 when time expired, who knows how high it would have gone.

Whitetail and Blacktail deer are on the auction block this weekend too.  Those you either have to phone in or be on a zoom call for.  I don't think there is a way to view the auction without contacting them.

I’m signed up for zoom call.
I am too but I don't think there will be any bargains this year.  The money being spent so far is off the charts.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Ridgerunner on March 08, 2021, 02:59:21 PM
Definitely no bargains this year to be had.  Probably another record setting year.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Rainier10 on March 13, 2021, 08:32:47 PM
Definitely no bargains this year to be had.  Probably another record setting year.
Well you nailed that. Washington WT was $500 below its record &BT was a record and Oregon elk went for way more than last year. Crazy money out there.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Rainier10 on March 13, 2021, 08:35:09 PM
WT $16,000
BT $10,000
Oregon elk $54,000( Oregon sells four elk tags one at each of four different events)

I didn’t see what the final number was on the west elk auction. It ended at 745 MST not PST
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: jjhunter on March 13, 2021, 08:42:18 PM
Shattered the WT record.  Those $14-16k numbers on the historical sales belong in the mule deer column.
Title: Re: 2021 governors tag
Post by: Rainier10 on March 13, 2021, 09:10:27 PM
Shattered the WT record.  Those $14-16k numbers on the historical sales belong in the mule deer column.
That makes way more sense.