Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: ghosthunter on April 09, 2021, 09:28:20 AM

Title: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: ghosthunter on April 09, 2021, 09:28:20 AM
So educate me on Ghost Guns.

I know they are built from a kit or what ever, but that's it.

Like to hear all the info including current laws in this regard?
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Tenkara on April 09, 2021, 09:32:28 AM
All they are is an 80% lower that you finish.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 09, 2021, 09:42:33 AM
A Ghost gin is any gun built without a serial number. If you built it, they're legal to own but are illegal to transfer (maybe immediate family?).
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Magnum_Willys on April 09, 2021, 09:42:49 AM
80% lower being the action part of an AR style rifle that when purchased 100% finished has a serial number and must be sold through an FFL.

If missing 20% of the machining (holes drilled and minor milling) then it does not need a serial number or FFL.

Guns made with these actions without serial numbers are referred to as  ghost guns.

They can be sold but only if put together “without the intent to sell”. 
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 09, 2021, 09:47:31 AM
It doesnt have to be just 80% products that a person buys. It can he any firearm that you make on your own. It is currently legal to make a gun on your own wether it starts as a 80% receiver or is 3d printed, or is machined from scratch. Any gun without a serial number is a scary “ghost gun” now.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 09, 2021, 09:50:49 AM
 :yeah:
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: highside74 on April 09, 2021, 09:55:06 AM
How many "ghost guns" have been used in a crime? I bet they have all sorts of amazing statistics to back up their fear of these so called ghost guns.

Sarc off
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Stein on April 09, 2021, 09:55:17 AM
They sound pretty scary to the general public, but I would like to see the statistics on how many are used in a crime.  Not a gun with the serial number ground off, but one that never had one.

To me, if you pass a law to solve a problem it should at least make the problem better.  That should be question #1.

Here is the problem, here is how the law would lead to either no problem or noticeably less problem.

I think the left goes for easy wins that they can tout as doing something (same thing the right does on other issues), classic mistake of confusing activity with accomplishment.  Bang out a few inconsequential activities that show you are working and then blame the other side for preventing anything else from happening.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: bracer40 on April 09, 2021, 09:58:17 AM
They sound pretty scary to the general public, but I would like to see the statistics on how many are used in a crime.  Not a gun with the serial number ground off, but one that never had one.

To me, if you pass a law to solve a problem it should at least make the problem better.  That should be question #1.

Here is the problem, here is how the law would lead to either no problem or noticeably less problem.

I think the left goes for easy wins that they can tout as doing something (same thing the right does on other issues), classic mistake of confusing activity with accomplishment.  Bang out a few inconsequential activities that show you are working and then blame the other side for preventing anything else from happening.
:yeah:
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Tenkara on April 09, 2021, 10:01:04 AM
It doesnt have to be just 80% products that a person buys. It can he any firearm that you make on your own. It is currently legal to make a gun on your own wether it starts as a 80% receiver or is 3d printed, or is machined from scratch. Any gun without a serial number is a scary “ghost gun” now.
:yeah: I was pretty vague on my first reply, they are also calling regular complete firearms with the serial number removed ghost guns.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 09, 2021, 10:07:36 AM
This proposed rule by the American Bar Association lists one shooting with a Ghost gun but says they're very, very scary anyway. The one used in the crime sounds more like what we used to call a zip gun, now called a ghost gun. The offender was 16, so already breaking the law by possessing a handgun. I'm sure another law will help rid us of these miscreants.  :rolleyes:

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_interest/gun_violence/policy/20m107a/
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: MountainWalk on April 09, 2021, 10:07:55 AM
No such thing as ghost.   Just an attempt to change and weaponize words and definitions.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: hunter399 on April 09, 2021, 10:21:18 AM
Watch this it will help you understand.


Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 09, 2021, 10:22:02 AM
I don't care about the term. I care about this blatant and intended disinformation.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: MountainWalk on April 09, 2021, 10:29:38 AM
Pianoman-
 Re- words.

  How do you think they misinform and blatantly lie?
Because they control the narrative and dialogue,  and that begins with precise choice and use of words.

 There's no such thing as ghost guns.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: b23 on April 09, 2021, 10:49:49 AM
Oh yeah, because a gun having a serial number will definitely prevent criminals from committing gun crimes.   :bash:

New flash!  Criminals are going to commit criminal acts no matter what the laws are.  :bash:   :bash:
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Skillet on April 09, 2021, 10:53:37 AM
If a ban on new sales of AR-style rifles does go through, I think they are assuming the number of 80% lowers finished into firearms will increase dramatically.  The "Ghost gun" angle is to shut that down before it takes off.  Remember during the last AR scare, 80% lowers were selling for big money and impossible to find after a short while.  How many of those actually became firearms nobody will know - but the story being told will assume 100% did.

 :twocents:
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Tenkara on April 09, 2021, 11:09:18 AM
Oh yeah, because a gun having a serial number will definitely prevent criminals from committing gun crimes.   :bash:

New flash!  Criminals are going to commit criminal acts no matter what the laws are.  :bash:   :bash:
Exactly.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 09, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Pianoman-
 Re- words.

  How do you think they misinform and blatantly lie?
Because they control the narrative and dialogue,  and that begins with precise choice and use of words.

 There's no such thing as ghost guns.

Fair enough. How would you describe guns made without serial numbers? Just that?
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: MountainWalk on April 09, 2021, 11:37:48 AM
Pianoman-
 Parts.

If it's disassembled,  incomplete, lacks a barrel, it's just parts.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Magnum_Willys on April 09, 2021, 12:19:20 PM
BOO!    :yike:   Ghost guns run and hide !    :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: MountainWalk on April 09, 2021, 12:21:47 PM
Magnum_Willys -
      I may not be Winston, but I ain't afraid of no ghost!
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 09, 2021, 12:31:38 PM
My 80percent lowers are offended by being labeled as ghosts. That's making an assumption they are half dead, when infact they are just incomplete. They are looking for the right match to be complete, but as we all know the stars don't always align right and finding a match is difficult. So judging them and assigning a label is a violation of their rights, as even though they are an object, they objectively are able to have feelings, making it a hate crime to attack them with legislation.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Fl0und3rz on April 09, 2021, 12:55:36 PM
They sound pretty scary to the general public, but I would like to see the statistics on how many are used in a crime.  Not a gun with the serial number ground off, but one that never had one.

To me, if you pass a law to solve a problem it should at least make the problem better.  That should be question #1.

Here is the problem, here is how the law would lead to either no problem or noticeably less problem.

I think the left goes for easy wins that they can tout as doing something (same thing the right does on other issues), classic mistake of confusing activity with accomplishment.  Bang out a few inconsequential activities that show you are working and then blame the other side for preventing anything else from happening.

As highside74 implied, it is not about crime or crime prevention.  It is NEVER about crime or crime prevention.  It is about unregistered gun ownership.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 09, 2021, 12:57:30 PM
Pianoman-
 Parts.

If it's disassembled,  incomplete, lacks a barrel, it's just parts.

Yes, they're advocating banning the parts to make ghost guns. But ghost guns are complete working firearms without serial numbers. Your objection is understood but mainly a semantic difference.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Fl0und3rz on April 09, 2021, 01:04:51 PM
Pianoman-
 Parts.

If it's disassembled,  incomplete, lacks a barrel, it's just parts.

Yes, they're advocating banning the parts to make ghost guns. But ghost guns are complete working firearms without serial numbers. Your objection is understood but mainly a semantic difference.

Take a look at WAs laws on machine guns, and you get the picture how they can call an unassembled stack of parts a machinegun, SBR, SBS. I doubt that there have been many, if any, cases where such was enforced, but as we well know, it is never about enforcement, which is why criminals ignore the law, like they will ignore the law concerning ghost guns.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 09, 2021, 01:06:07 PM
I'm not disagreeing with either of you.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: KNOPHISH on April 09, 2021, 01:13:49 PM
Watch out for those arm braces too, super scary and dangerous.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 09, 2021, 01:31:54 PM
Very scary.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: b0bbyg on April 09, 2021, 01:32:11 PM
Just saying could be real

Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Fl0und3rz on April 09, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
So educate me on Ghost Guns.

Look in your safe.  There they all are.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: hunter399 on April 09, 2021, 01:40:12 PM
Biden has single handedly sold more firearms than most with his campaign promises.
"Ghost Gun" Millions and millions of ghost guns are already in circulation.
This is a day late dollar short event to please the party, and keep good on campaign promises. Nothing more nothing less.
There is a long list of gun legislation old Joe promises ,buckle up boys,cause the ammo shortage has just begun.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 09, 2021, 01:42:17 PM
 :yeah: ...and I haven't been able to buy one box of .30-30 for my Model 94 yet.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Fl0und3rz on April 09, 2021, 01:45:17 PM
:yeah:

Go on The Pirate Bay and Search for Defense Distributed and Deterrence Dispensed, and you can find any number of torrents where you can download any number of 3D printable or other designs and info on home firearm manufacturer.

Genie is out of the out of the bottle, similar to the 2A genie.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: ghosthunter on April 09, 2021, 05:24:29 PM
Thanks all for the info.

I have never been a black rifle guy. But giving it some thought.

So no serial #
Legal if you built it.
Can be sold, through FFL? and do you ever have to get a serial #?
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Magnum_Willys on April 09, 2021, 05:35:40 PM
Will an FFL be able to do a transfer without serial #?
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: full choke on April 09, 2021, 05:43:45 PM
Will an FFL be able to do a transfer without serial #?

Maybe a different animal, but I bought a used 20g shotgun a few years ago. It was an old Ted Williams semi auto. It did not have a serial number. We did a transfer and the FFL had to make up some number, said it was fairly common to do on these older firearms.
With the new laws in WA concerning scary black rifles, not sure how a transfer would go on a 80% lower being finished and then transferred?
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: TheStovePipeKid on April 09, 2021, 06:09:13 PM
Before the sale of a homemade firearm can take place it must recieve a serial number from the person who manufactured it. That number can be anything but it still must be serialized.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: GWP on April 09, 2021, 06:55:01 PM
At least this thread has some humor to it! A few of the other ones I have read lately got a little testy!
I am pretty sure criminals only steal guns with serial numbers to use in crimes as they are afraid a ‘ghost gun’ might up and possess them, making them do BAD things! Not like the ‘peaceful theft’ and subsequent possible ‘peaceful bodily harm’ they might normally inflict.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: hunter399 on April 09, 2021, 08:21:00 PM
Thanks all for the info.

I have never been a black rifle guy. But giving it some thought.

So no serial #
Legal if you built it.
Can be sold, through FFL? and do you ever have to get a serial #?
No serial #
Legal as long as you build it.
Yours for life or you pass it on when you die.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Tenkara on April 21, 2021, 09:41:26 AM
https://thereload.com/leaked-atf-document-details-biden-plans-to-ban-ghost-guns/?utm_source=1%20-%20List&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4%2F21%20LEAKED%20ATF%20DOC%20%28ReJi3X%29&_ke=eyJrbF9jb21wYW55X2lkIjogIlBOeHlBWCIsICJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJzdGlsbGh1bnRlcjE5NTdAZ21haWwuY29tIn0%3D
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Evil_EdwardO on April 23, 2021, 01:38:29 PM
.
Title: Re: Ghost Guns???????????
Post by: Special T on April 23, 2021, 01:49:49 PM
I have also seen 80% kits for 10-22 rifle AK, FNAL, not a glock pistols (it uses all glock parts but the frame has a 1911 rake to the grip), 1911 pistol, and a couple of others i cant remeber...

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