Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: yorketransport on June 05, 2021, 10:30:29 PM

Title: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: yorketransport on June 05, 2021, 10:30:29 PM
I'm doing another round of bullet testing, this time using ballistic gel. I didn't plan on doing a whole lot of testing this time, but I figure that if I have the gel I may as well have fun. This time I'm also taking videos of all of the impacts.

The first round of testing was while working with a prototype 10mm bullet I asked the guys at Hammer Bullets to design for me. I did a very in-depth round of testing with these comparing them to a few other common bullets used in high performance 10mm ammunition. This is the testing from the Gen 1 Jack Hammer bullet in 10mm. This testing was before I started taking videos of the impacts.

Gen 1 Jack Hammer compared to a 180gr XTP
(https://i.imgur.com/cyph0Ns.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/AZWh0Rb.jpg?2)

For load data, I ran the numbers through Quickload using a bullet modeled after the 180gr XTP with a reduced bearing surface and reduced weight. I took that data and compared it to other established data for 155gr bullets and the 155gr Barnes Tac XP. Since I have a somewhat limited number of the Hammers to play with, load development was very abbreviated. My goal was to match the velocities of high performance, lead free, ammo offered by Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, and Underwood Ammo. I was able to do that in my guns, but I won't make any claims as to whether or not these loads are safe in any other gun. I shot these loads first in a GP-100 revolver to check for safety, then tested them in a Kimber Camp Guard 1911. The 1911 has been modified with a 22# variable weight recoil spring, a 28# hammer spring, and a flat bottom firing pin stop. These modifications make a significant difference in how a 1911 performs and handles with high power loads.

Here are the test guns.
(https://i.imgur.com/jIGOSly.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/hmNX14b.jpg?1)

Here are the loads I tested:

180gr Hornady XTP
- 1245fps from the 4.2" GP-100
- 1294fps from the 5" 1911
This has been a standard load I've shot out of 7 different 10mm handguns over the years.

220gr TC flat point
- 1120fps from the 4.2" GP-100
- 1162fps from the 5" 1911
This load duplicates the Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman load and uses the same bullet used by Buffalo Bore and cast by RimRock bullets.

200gr WFL-pb coated with Hi-tek coating
- 1265fps from the 4.2" GP-100
- 1290fps from the 5" 1911
This bullet is cast by Montana Bullet Works using the NOE 403-198-WFN PB-Y1 bullet mold. This is has been my gold standard heavy bullet in all of my 10mm pistols for years.

152gr Claw Hammer
- 1360fps from the 4.2" GP-100
- 1405fps from the 5" 1911
I tested this bullet with 2 different powders, both gave similar velocities but one powder showed significantly better accuracy. This load was shot for accuracy and function out of the Kimber 1911 at 50 yards and the results were a 4.5" group, well within what I expect from this gun when fired at that range. Functioning was 100% with a loaded OAL of 1.240". A longer OAL (1.250") resulted in some failure to feeds.


Bullet performance was tested on two separate trips. The first trip was to get a baseline of performance and compare how the 4 different bullets perform in ballistics gel. All shots were from 15 yards into 20% ballistic gel from Clear Ballistics. Handguns don't provide quite the same dramatic wound cavities in ballistics gel that rifles do, and even less so when using 20% gel. I was more interested in overall penetration depth and how straight the bullet travels.

(https://i.imgur.com/XeoxTnd.jpg?1)
This is a top down view of the total penetration of the 4 bullets relative to each other.
- 180gr XTP = 14", straight line
- 220gr fp = 20", bullet curved up and turned backwards
- 152gr Claw Hammer = 30", straight line
- 200gr wfn = 32", straight line

(https://i.imgur.com/23daY42.jpg?1)
This is a total of 6 bullets, 3 of the 152gr Claw Hammers and 3 of the 200gr WFN bullets. The CH are the two at the far left and bottom on the right. The rest are the 200gr WFN bullets. I can't give a good reason why, but the first shot from both the CH and the WFN penetrated farther than the follow 2 shots of each bullet. Penetration was very consistent with both bullets traveling in a straight line and stopping at roughly 30" of penetration.

(https://i.imgur.com/0rlu8kN.jpg?2)
It's difficult to see in the picture, but these are the tracks of all 4 bullets. The top track is actually two, the one with the largest wound cavity is the 180gr XTP. Behind that is the 200gr WFN. The middle track is from the 220gr load. You can see that it starts to curve up about roughly the 6" mark. The bottom track is from the Claw Hammer. I fired 3 of each bullet into the gel and all of them showed consistent performance. All 3 of the 220gr bullets curved up, with 2 of them actually exiting the gel block.

The next trip out was the first "proof of concept" trial of my new idea for an accurate representation of bullet performance on game. This test consists of a layer of heavy apron leather, 2" of 20% gel, the shoulder blade of an average sized (175#) Washington black bear, then 20% gel. This was the first test of this setup, future blocks will have the bone inserted into the gel before it cools, making the bone a more natural part of the gel.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZXTgg1T.jpg?1)

I fired one of each of the bullets into the gel/bone and attempted to record it in slow motion. I'll work on getting the videos edited and uploaded later, but here are the best still shots I could get from the videos. I wasn't able to get a good picture of the 200gr WFN wound cavity.


152 Claw Hammer
(https://i.imgur.com/J4x3K5Y.jpg?1)

220gr fp. Note that the bullet is curving upwards after roughly 6" of penetration.
(https://i.imgur.com/FJ7gRle.jpg?1)

180gr XTP
(https://i.imgur.com/xIbRuNt.jpg?1)
The most significant wound cavity was caused by the 180gr XTP, which was expected since it's the only expanding bullet I tested. I was disappointed to see that the 220gr bullet curved up, again. The wound cavity of the 220gr bullet was significant though. The Claw Hammer made a larger temporary cavity than the still picture shows; it's difficult to get good images when I'm only filming at 240 frames/sec though.


(https://i.imgur.com/KIFbULC.jpg?1)
These are where the bullets stopped after penetrating the leather, bone, and gel mixture. The top bullet is the 200gr WFN, next is the 152 CH, then the 220gr FP (flipped backwards), then the 180gr XTP (flipped backwards). It's worth noting that the 180 XTP penetrated more on this round than without the bone. I attribute that to the limited expansion after the bullet hit the bone. The bullets' penetration relative to each other stayed the same when comparing the gel with and without the bone.

Here are recovered bullets compared to unfired samples.
(https://i.imgur.com/s0jUtCW.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: yorketransport on June 05, 2021, 10:34:36 PM
Here's a comparison of the 152gr Gen 2 Jack Hammer, 200gr WFN, and 220gr Truncated Cone bullets from a 10mm. Velocities:

152gr Jack Hammer: 1405fps
200gr WFN: 1290fps
220gr TC: 1160fps

Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: yorketransport on June 05, 2021, 10:37:33 PM
Here's the first video shooting a 375 Ruger with the 275gr Sledge Hammer, 300gr Partition, and 260gr Accubond. The 260gr Accubond was my go to load for nearly 10 years before getting replaced by the 275gr Sledge Hammer. I use the 300gr Partitions for practice and plinking.


Muzzle velocities:
275gr Sledge Hammer : 2655 fps
300gr Partition: 2515 fps
260gr Partition: 2760 fps

The first shot with the 275gr Sledge Hammer went a little high, but not so high that I needed to redo the shot. The bullet penetrated 32" of 20% ballistic gel at 150 yards and exited the blocks. I don't know how far it would have continued to penetrate, but it didn't show any signs of slowing down! The second shot was a 300gr Partition that penetrated 30.5". The third shot was a 260gr Accubond which impacted too high and exited the gel. I fired a second shot which penetrated 25" of gel.

275gr Sledge Hammer
(https://i.imgur.com/wTyGYgV.jpg?1)

300gr Partition
(https://i.imgur.com/R8ZBHhx.jpg?1)

260gr Accubond #1
(https://i.imgur.com/0QoQXWE.jpg?1)

260gr Accubond #2
(https://i.imgur.com/d3USies.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: yorketransport on June 05, 2021, 10:42:44 PM
7mm SAUM bullet testing


This is the first round of 7mm bullets shot at 200 yards from a 1-8.5" twist 7mm SAUM. You know those days where you'd have been better off just packing up and going home? That was yesterday for me! The weather turned just as I was getting set up, so it was overcast and I had to set up a canopy to keep the gel dry. That made it relatively dark, which doesn't help to get good video. Then every time the gel blocks hit the ground, they got a little dirtier. I only had a few of the 143 HH and 155 CE MTH bullets left, so I thought I could do this without any sighters, I was wrong and they were hitting pretty high. I was already zeroed at 200 yards with the 165 TGK, so those were dead on.

Here are the muzzle velocities of the loads tested.

143 HH: 3142 fps
155 MTH: 2955 fps
165 TGK: 2960 fps

Here's the first shot with the 143 HH
(https://i.imgur.com/3ASA3Kp.jpg?1)

Second 143 HH
(https://i.imgur.com/ocIXRsy.jpg?1)

155 Cutting Edge MTH
(https://i.imgur.com/7ZHvzcv.jpg?1)

165 Tipped Game King
(https://i.imgur.com/EVZnAa9.jpg?2)

The Hammer and CE bullets just didn't want to stay in the block with all three of those bullets exiting by either curving up (Hammers) or out the side (Cutting Edge). The Sierra bullet did stay in the gel and penetrated 19.5". I haven't had time to dig the bullet out and weigh it, but it held up pretty well considering the relatively high impact velocity.

The 143 HH shed about 6 petals which all exited either the top or sides of the block. The MTH left large fragments, most of which stayed in the block.
(https://i.imgur.com/LgQ5uej.jpg?2)

I'll also include one bonus picture of a 250gr SMK fired from a 338/375 Ruger specialty pistol with a muzzle velocity of 2670 fps. I fired this into the block after I was done with the 7mm, mostly as "stress relief" since the rest of the shooting didn't go quite the way I wanted it to. I flipped the blocks around so the relatively clean second block from the 7mm tests was now the first block for the 338. I didn't get a video of this impact, but I will shoot this load again at a later date.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q0srELA.jpg?1)


The bullet you see in the gel is the 165gr Sierra. The 250gr SMK penetrated about 9" before coming unglued! This is the only piece of the bullet I recovered. The remainder exited the second block in 3 pieces that radiated out and exited the top and both sides of the second block after about 26" of total penetration.
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: Dan-o on June 05, 2021, 11:45:38 PM
Tagging.

You surely didn't do this half way.

That is a bunch of prep work, and really cool pics and video.
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: jasnt on June 06, 2021, 07:31:02 AM
Nice work! Thanks for sharing this.  If you plan to test any 30 cal let me know.  Iíll send ya some badlands 205gr super bulldozer 2ís
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: Magnum_Willys on June 06, 2021, 07:55:15 AM
Impressive !   Did some tests back in high school mixing gelatin in 5 gal buckets.   Took a lot of powder.   

Was thinking about shooting a block at a 1000 with a 5Ē hole in a plate to make sure impact is centered.   

You make or buy the gelatin?

Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: yorketransport on June 06, 2021, 12:07:16 PM
Nice work! Thanks for sharing this.  If you plan to test any 30 cal let me know.  Iíll send ya some badlands 205gr super bulldozer 2ís

The only .30 I have is a 10Ē twist 300 RUM. I might need to get my hands on a faster twist to test some of the other .30s.

 
Impressive !   Did some tests back in high school mixing gelatin in 5 gal buckets.   Took a lot of powder.   

Was thinking about shooting a block at a 1000 with a 5Ē hole in a plate to make sure impact is centered.   

You make or buy the gelatin?

I bought it from Clear Ballistics. I was going to make my own, but I didnít want to deal with refrigerating it. The synthetic stuff from Clear Ballistics is temp stabile and easy(ish) to melt down and remold. I just ordered another 3 blocks so I have more on hand.
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: Magnum_Willys on June 06, 2021, 12:50:45 PM
The ability to remelt it would be worth it for sure. 
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: TooTallMike on June 06, 2021, 04:10:34 PM
Nice work! Thanks for sharing this.  If you plan to test any 30 cal let me know.  Iíll send ya some badlands 205gr super bulldozer 2ís

The only .30 I have is a 10Ē twist 300 RUM. I might need to get my hands on a faster twist to test some of the other .30s.


I have a 1/8 twist 300 win mag
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: Jolten on June 06, 2021, 04:19:34 PM
Loving that Kimber York. Sure you don't want to trade a savage 10t in .308 for it? :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: yorketransport on June 06, 2021, 05:43:27 PM


Loving that Kimber York. Sure you don't want to trade a savage 10t in .308 for it? :chuckle:

I mostly bought that Kimber to test the new Hammer bullets. Of course, once I shot it I remembered how much I like bobtail 1911s. I wanted Hammer to make me the bullets for the revolver but APPARENTLY everybody else prefers the 10mm in a pistol.  :chuckle: I had to do a bunch of function testing to make sure they'd feed with that wide nose profile.

It's funny, I forgot that I have a 308 barrel sitting in my barrel pile under the work bench. Your post reminded me and I just went out and found it. :chuckle: It would probably work to test those 165s you sent me a few years ago to test. Instead I'm going run those full-throttle in the RUM and see what they do! :tup:


I have a 1/8 twist 300 win mag

Oh really...... We might have to put it to work!
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: Jolten on June 06, 2021, 06:24:15 PM


Loving that Kimber York. Sure you don't want to trade a savage 10t in .308 for it? :chuckle:

I mostly bought that Kimber to test the new Hammer bullets. Of course, once I shot it I remembered how much I like bobtail 1911s. I wanted Hammer to make me the bullets for the revolver but APPARENTLY everybody else prefers the 10mm in a pistol.  :chuckle: I had to do a bunch of function testing to make sure they'd feed with that wide nose profile.

It's funny, I forgot that I have a 308 barrel sitting in my barrel pile under the work bench. Your post reminded me and I just went out and found it. :chuckle: It would probably work to test those 165s you sent me a few years ago to test. Instead I'm going run those full-throttle in the RUM and see what they do! :tup:


I have a 1/8 twist 300 win mag

Oh really...... We might have to put it to work!

Oh geez... Poor hpbt again lol.

If you decide to part with that Kimber let me know. Could always get the .308 changed over to a grendel for your kiddo ;)
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: jasnt on June 06, 2021, 10:00:53 PM
I got a 1:8 300 barrel coming this month for my weatherby vanguard
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: yorketransport on June 27, 2021, 10:24:30 AM
High velocity 270 bullet tests. The approximate impact velocities are written on the gel blocks.

117gr HH
impact velocity 3750fps
(https://i.imgur.com/T01iYp0.jpg?1)

- 30.5" Total average penetration for 3 shots
- weight of the recovered bullet shank 89.8gr

156gr HH
impact velocity 3280fps
(https://i.imgur.com/0Jt6v3T.jpg?1)

- 30" penetration before exiting the top of the block
addition testing will be done to measure actual penetration.

170gr Berger EOL
impact velocity 3120fps
(https://i.imgur.com/hQSBZl5.jpg?1)

- 24" penetration of the largest bullet fragment.
- The largest recovered bullet fragment weighed 23.2gr, the rest of the bullet broke up into tiny pieces.

140gr Sierra TGK (Gamechanger)
impact velocity 3360fps
(https://i.imgur.com/v0Rghiy.jpg?1)

- 14.5" total penetration.
- The largest recovered bullet fragment weight 39.4gr. The rest of the bullet broke up into tiny pieces.
(https://i.imgur.com/aLossSp.jpg?1)
[/size]
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: yorketransport on June 27, 2021, 01:19:43 PM
Here are the still pictures of the impacts.

145 ELDx
(https://i.imgur.com/XPE53vu.jpg?1)

117gr HH
(https://i.imgur.com/cOpCd6q.jpg?1)

156gr HH You can see the bullet exiting the block at the left edge of the photo.
(https://i.imgur.com/evERfsg.jpg?1)

140gr TGK
(https://i.imgur.com/SYGKwiA.jpg?1)

170 EOL
(https://i.imgur.com/DP85IVL.jpg)
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: packmule on June 27, 2021, 04:20:29 PM
What do you think about the performance of the Hammer bullets?
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: Bareback on June 27, 2021, 05:37:20 PM
Some guys have all the fun! Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: yorketransport on July 19, 2021, 10:28:38 PM
More testing, but with 338 bullets this time. All bullets were fired from an 18" barreled 338/375 Ruger specialty pistol. You'll have to excuse the "champagne gel block" thing that I have going on with a few of the blocks. I was short on time and didn't have time to throw the gel blocks in the oven after dumping the gel in the mold. That lets air bubbles get trapped in the gel. The approximate impact velocities and retained bullet weight are written on the gel blocks, with the exception of the 285gr ELDm, I spaced and wrote the wrong velocity on that one and it should be 2570 fps, not the 2270 on the block.

The test line up from this trip out: 225 TTSX, 250gr SB II, 260gr Hammer Hunter, 270gr SB I, 285gr ELDm
(https://i.imgur.com/cm2RmUe.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/OBMxT3h.jpg?1)


225gr TTSX
(https://i.imgur.com/jq2RSnR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/COgOX0s.jpg?1)
This bullet exited the gel at roughly 35" of penetration. It appears in the video that the bullet had slowed down dramatically by the time it exited the gel, so I don't imagine it would have traveled much farther. I also assumed that it looked like every other TTSX bullet I've recovered, so it didn't seem necessary to shoot additional rounds to try and recover a bullet.

250gr SB II
(https://i.imgur.com/zo1I7lQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/REetxj3.jpg?1)
This bullet surprised me with it's relatively shallow penetration of 24.5". The damage appears substantial though and the weight retention was very good. I didn't know going into this that the SuperBuldozers are intended to retain the majority of their weight and not necessarily shed petals. With that in mind, the bullet appears to have performed exactly how it should have.

260gr Hammer Hunter
(https://i.imgur.com/zghFHfr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Z2tRCIS.jpg?1)
The first bullet I fired exited the side of the second block at about 27". I fired a second bullet into the gel later on, which was recovered at 36.5". Performance was consistent with all the other Hammers I've shot

270gr SB I
(https://i.imgur.com/oICwD75.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DvhUuUF.jpg?1)
The 270 SuperBuldozer I penetrated 27.5" before exiting the side of the block on the first shot and a second bullet was recovered at 37" of penetration. I was really impressed with the penetration of this bullet at the low impact velocity. I was surprised that the heavy bullet at lower velocity out penetrated the lighter 250gr SB by such a significant amount.

285gr ELDm
(https://i.imgur.com/4a3eCz1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RQfWaHq.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/dvJPR3o.jpg?1)
The recovered 285 ELDm weighed 160.4gr and penetrated 18.5". Lead core bullets give some of the most spectacular impacts in the gel! LOL Penetration wasn't very impressive, but I have to assume that this bullet would have really done a number on anything it hit. Expansion and weight retention were perfectly in line with all the other ELDm and ELDx bullets I've tested and I can see why guys like them.
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: jasnt on July 23, 2021, 08:47:19 AM
Interesting results with the super bulldozers. 
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: Jolten on July 23, 2021, 11:03:06 PM
Those temp wound cavities are pretty neat to see
Title: Re: Bullet testing, round 2
Post by: hunter399 on July 24, 2021, 02:50:21 AM
I always like seeing the bullet .
What it did ,how it held up.
Kinda cool.👌
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