Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: PA BEN on July 27, 2021, 04:54:31 PM

Title: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on July 27, 2021, 04:54:31 PM
If we are going to have a big outbreak of Blue Tongue it will be this year. I haven't seen any yet, but that doesn't mean it's not out there. Post your thoughts and observations.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: phildobaggins on July 30, 2021, 01:16:35 PM
I'm expecting some blue tongue this year. It's been a scorcher of a summer. Last weekend I was out chasing coyotes around and out of the 10 bodies of water I visited, 8 of them were completely dry, the rest were super low, warm, stagnant, disgusting.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on July 30, 2021, 01:25:11 PM
Its comin.....
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Emptyhanded on July 30, 2021, 01:32:08 PM
It seems like most of the standing water around here has dried up, which is much sooner than usual. I am wondering if these warm temps drying out the usual ďpoolsĒ will reduce the severity. Less water = less larvae? Iím not sure. The creek on our place seems damn near stationary though (even though itís still flowing), so I donít know if thatís a potential breeding ground or not. Iím praying itís not a repeat of 2015.


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Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on July 31, 2021, 09:05:31 AM
The worst year I remember around here Chewelah area was in the early 90's. Spring turkey the next spring we found dead deer everywhere. It was double doe tags those 2 years and the game dept. didn't cancel the double doe season the next year. I still haven't seen the deer numbers like we had before that.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 31, 2021, 09:32:46 AM
It's usually into late August and September that the effects of it are seen around here. The midge larvae are in the mud by then but I don't think it has to be stagnant water. Supposedly that's where they are most common and it makes sense. I believe the dryness is so complete here that the midges may be knocked back a bit too.

@BULLBLASTER had some dead into October a few years ago from likely blue tongue. I believe it has to freeze HARD before the risk is truly gone.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 31, 2021, 09:35:52 AM
It's usually into late August and September that the effects of it are seen around here. The midge larvae are in the mud by then but I don't think it has to be stagnant water. Supposedly that's where they are most common and it makes sense. I believe the dryness is so complete here that the midges may be knocked back a bit too.

@BULLBLASTER had some dead into October a few years ago from likely blue tongue. I believe it has to freeze HARD before the risk is truly gone.

And for the record, I think it's actually EHD not blue tongue. Even though they are very similar diseases spread by the same gnats to the same animals
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bearpaw on July 31, 2021, 09:37:26 AM
I wonder if an insecticide could be used to treat/eradicate these gnats?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: boneaddict on July 31, 2021, 09:45:54 AM
If we are going to have a big outbreak of Blue Tongue it will be this year. I haven't seen any yet, but that doesn't mean it's not out there. Post your thoughts and observations.

Yep, generally the hot dry ones.   Circle around the mudhole
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: MHWASH on August 19, 2021, 12:23:48 PM
Blue tongue is having a big impact right now in the Palouse. I know of 53 that have been picked up within the city limits of Colfax. Very sad to see because the herd was just starting to come back after 2015.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on August 19, 2021, 12:27:16 PM
Blue tongue is having a big impact right now in the Palouse. I know of 53 that have been picked up within the city limits of Colfax. Very sad to see because the herd was just starting to come back after 2015.
So sorry to hear that.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: MHWASH on August 19, 2021, 01:44:32 PM
Bio just confirmed itís EHD
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: andersonjk4 on August 19, 2021, 03:08:08 PM
Bio just confirmed itís EHD

Dang. Not what I like to hear.   
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jrebel on August 19, 2021, 03:14:26 PM
Doesnít EHD occur due to drought and contamination of water sources from domestic livestock pissing and crapping in their watering hole?   This what Iíve heard so just confirming. 

If that is the caseÖ.I am dumbfounded that landowners donít provide water to the wildlife in areas prone to EHD.   Itís not that hard to fence off a 250 gallon tank to keep livestock out.  The deer will find it. 
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bearpaw on August 19, 2021, 03:21:04 PM
Doesnít EHD occur due to drought and contamination of water sources from domestic livestock pissing and crapping in their watering hole?   This what Iíve heard so just confirming. 

If that is the caseÖ.I am dumbfounded that landowners donít provide water to the wildlife in areas prone to EHD.   Itís not that hard to fence off a 250 gallon tank to keep livestock out.  The deer will find it.

I don't think that is right, I have heard it's a gnat that hangs around waterholes and bites the deer when they come to water. But I'm anxious to hear from someone who knows more than I do.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on August 19, 2021, 03:22:28 PM
Doesnít EHD occur due to drought and contamination of water sources from domestic livestock pissing and crapping in their watering hole?   This what Iíve heard so just confirming. 

If that is the caseÖ.I am dumbfounded that landowners donít provide water to the wildlife in areas prone to EHD.   Itís not that hard to fence off a 250 gallon tank to keep livestock out.  The deer will find it.

https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/deer/facts-on-epizootic-hemorrhagic-disease-in-deer
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: dvolmer on August 19, 2021, 03:23:11 PM
Doesnít EHD occur due to drought and contamination of water sources from domestic livestock pissing and crapping in their watering hole?   This what Iíve heard so just confirming. 

If that is the caseÖ.I am dumbfounded that landowners donít provide water to the wildlife in areas prone to EHD.   Itís not that hard to fence off a 250 gallon tank to keep livestock out.  The deer will find it.
EHD comes from a midge (small insect) that bites the deer and makes it sick. Most deer that get infected are found by water sources because one of the symptoms of the disease on the deer is to be very thirsty before perishing.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jrebel on August 19, 2021, 03:28:27 PM
Doesnít EHD occur due to drought and contamination of water sources from domestic livestock pissing and crapping in their watering hole?   This what Iíve heard so just confirming. 

If that is the caseÖ.I am dumbfounded that landowners donít provide water to the wildlife in areas prone to EHD.   Itís not that hard to fence off a 250 gallon tank to keep livestock out.  The deer will find it.

https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/deer/facts-on-epizootic-hemorrhagic-disease-in-deer

Learned something today.  Thanks.  :tup:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on August 19, 2021, 03:31:36 PM
Doesnít EHD occur due to drought and contamination of water sources from domestic livestock pissing and crapping in their watering hole?   This what Iíve heard so just confirming. 

If that is the caseÖ.I am dumbfounded that landowners donít provide water to the wildlife in areas prone to EHD.   Itís not that hard to fence off a 250 gallon tank to keep livestock out.  The deer will find it.

https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/deer/facts-on-epizootic-hemorrhagic-disease-in-deer

Learned something today.  Thanks.  :tup:
No problem
I didn't know exactly what is was.
Googled it ,learned
Copy link for ya.
👌👌👌
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on August 19, 2021, 03:35:14 PM
Is this what everybody is talking about.

https://www.khq.com/news/idaho-fish-and-game-determine-cause-of-death-for-as-many-as-300-deer-in/article_aec5f1cc-0061-11ec-8a7c-273c3f503ac7.html

Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: LDennis24 on August 19, 2021, 07:36:13 PM
For what you asked Dale, yes the mosquito donut dunks will kill Midge larvae and gnats as well. I live on the western edge of Whitman county and all the whitetail around my place are doing fine there's actually more than I'm used to seeing and the water is still running behind my house. I have a small spring that stays on my property and they seem to be staying around for that water. I also have less mosquitoes this year than I've ever had so the larvae from those Midge flies and other types might be affected also. This was sent out to folks in Kamiah the other day.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on August 19, 2021, 09:02:54 PM
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/aug/19/38-whitetails-in-washington-test-positive-for-dead/
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bustedoldman on August 20, 2021, 06:15:37 AM
I saw Idaho Fish & Game posted they had found 200 head of WT dead around the Kamiah areaÖ

https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/test-results-confirm-many-300-white-tailed-deer-have-died-hemorrhagic-disease-kamiah-area
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bearpaw on August 20, 2021, 12:25:50 PM
For what you asked Dale, yes the mosquito donut dunks will kill Midge larvae and gnats as well. I live on the western edge of Whitman county and all the whitetail around my place are doing fine there's actually more than I'm used to seeing and the water is still running behind my house. I have a small spring that stays on my property and they seem to be staying around for that water. I also have less mosquitoes this year than I've ever had so the larvae from those Midge flies and other types might be affected also. This was sent out to folks in Kamiah the other day.

Thanks, I googled and found this, I already ordered some to put in the wildlife water tank I have on my place:
https://www.amazon.com/Summit-responsible-solutions-110-12-Mosquito/dp/B0000AH849/ref=psdc_3737941_t2_B07PFQYWBX

 - Kills mosquitoes before they're old enough to bite
 - The only product with bti, bacteria toxic only to mosquito larvae
 - Lasts for 30 days and treats 100 square feet of surface water
 - Non-toxic to all other wildlife , pets, fish, and humans
 - Labeled for organic gardening by the usepa
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jjhunter on August 23, 2021, 09:11:46 PM
Buddy found 12 in one field harvesting today in the Palouse.  Said heís never seen anything like this. 

Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: teanawayslayer on August 23, 2021, 11:09:46 PM
Buddy found 12 in one field harvesting today in the Palouse.  Said heís never seen anything like this.
:yike: not good!
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on August 23, 2021, 11:37:55 PM
Seen a dead deer myself the other day.
It's a story for another day though, or sometimes things are better left unsaid.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: LDennis24 on August 24, 2021, 08:17:35 AM
Ooohh! Now you have to tell us! :drool:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: salt n sage90 on August 24, 2021, 08:29:36 AM
They should hand that treatment out to every landowner that will take it. Save alot of deer. Its a painful death these deer go through.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bearpaw on August 25, 2021, 12:47:18 PM
The floating tablets arrived today, putting one in my water tank this afternoon.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: nwwanderer on August 25, 2021, 06:56:38 PM
Getting going in 127, could be a big one.  Hard horned bucks this weak, lucky if they get to show them off.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on August 26, 2021, 05:53:46 AM
They put down three whitetail in the city of Colville yesterday...blue tongue
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on August 26, 2021, 06:50:53 AM
Got a call last night, one of the ranches along hwy 25 has many dead deer, should hear more in next day or so.  I would suspect most of the areas north and south from Rice to be affected.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on August 26, 2021, 07:22:04 AM
I know of one south of chewlah.
Deer falling down,sucked up,walking dead deer.
Friend called WDFW ,and county sheriff ,nobody would come out to put the deer down.
This was Sunday,talked to friend yesterday,still nobody showed up to even look at the dead deer.
I guess they told him blue tongue,with out even looking at it.

There might even be more cases that are not reported or WDFW are to busy to even respond. Which tells me if they are that busy there must be Alot of blue tongue cases.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: nwwanderer on August 26, 2021, 10:04:50 AM
'Might be more cases', a tiny fraction get reported.  We need talking ravens and coyotes to have a real number
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 26, 2021, 11:35:25 AM
'Might be more cases', a tiny fraction get reported.  We need talking ravens and coyotes to have a real number
Had any on your place?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on August 26, 2021, 11:45:34 AM
If a deer needs to be put down...don't wait for anyone to do it...take care of it right then and there.....I know I'm not supposed to but I will not watch a deer suffer knowing it is going to die anyway.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: nwwanderer on August 26, 2021, 11:55:46 AM
Not to bad yet, these guys plus coyotes and magpies are keeping up
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: nwwanderer on August 26, 2021, 11:58:13 AM
Try again, yikes, do not look at that!!!
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 26, 2021, 12:45:06 PM
Bummer. Hopefully it doesnt take too many. They were just starting to rebound.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on August 26, 2021, 01:14:15 PM
If a deer needs to be put down...don't wait for anyone to do it...take care of it right then and there.....I know I'm not supposed to but I will not watch a deer suffer knowing it is going to die anyway.
I Agree learned that lesson.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on August 26, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
So I was just by my friends house ,that had the dead deer.
Just down the road a half eaten deer.
I was in chewlah little bit ago,Doe with two fawns.
She looked like a sack of bones.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 26, 2021, 01:32:01 PM
They don't last long enough with EHD, Blue Tongue etc. to lose weight. She's probably a bag of bones from nursing the two brats all summer
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Emptyhanded on August 26, 2021, 02:53:12 PM
We started catching whiffs of ďdeadĒ last week. Doesnít seem too bad yet but thereís definitely a few dropping.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on August 26, 2021, 04:41:04 PM
Just talked to another friend up by kettle said some muley Doe died near his property.
Said bio came a few days later .
Bio said he been picking up dead deer all week.
Of coarse this is all here say ,friend of a friend stuff.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on August 29, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
Seen this one today.
I'm not saying it's blue tongue,this or that.
But I will say this drought has some animals that are not gonna make it.

Seen her right on the road. I pulled my truck up and she didn't get off the road till you could pet her out the passenger window. She got off the road about 5 feet and acted like she didn't want to do that.
This is heavy hunted area ,most healthy deer will jump the road like lightning.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on August 29, 2021, 05:27:13 PM
Looks like most of the nursing does around here. Raising fawns takes a lot out of them. They should start weaning soon so they can put on some fat before winter......Just what I see around here.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on August 29, 2021, 05:46:22 PM
Looks like most of the nursing does around here. Raising fawns takes a lot out of them. They should start weaning soon so they can put on some fat before winter......Just what I see around here.
Ya you never know.
Little more rain and a little less dry might help a few out that are kinda weak looking.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 29, 2021, 06:32:01 PM
I don't think mule deer are anywhere near as susceptible as are whitetail. They're also generally far less skittish
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: teanawayslayer on August 29, 2021, 06:52:41 PM
I don't think mule deer are anywhere near as susceptible as are whitetail. They're also generally far less skittish
:yeah: I thought it only affected white tail. Cwd is the one that gets mule deer.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 29, 2021, 07:14:49 PM
 :yeah: my understanding as well.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on August 29, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Like said in my post with pic ,not really saying it's this or that.
But I do know it didn't look healthy. And didn't look like the other deer I seen that ran off before I could even get a pic.
Really I don't know.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bearpaw on August 30, 2021, 06:50:39 AM
Unfortunately people are starting to find dead deer around the Colville area this last few days, looks like blue tongue is making it's way here now.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ironhead on August 30, 2021, 07:08:14 AM
Blue Tongue is wiping out some Bighorn Sheep herds in BC.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 30, 2021, 07:15:24 AM
Have not seen him hanging around in Colville for a while.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bearpaw on August 30, 2021, 07:35:41 AM
Blue Tongue is wiping out some Bighorn Sheep herds in BC.

Dang, I didn't realize sheep were that susceptible but they seem to not be very disease resistant so I probably shouldn't be surprised. Just sad to hear it impacts sheep too!
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: LDennis24 on August 30, 2021, 04:49:38 PM
I had three Icelandic sheep die at home in the last week. I changed feed and was blaming that but you never know, could be blue tongue I guess. I'm seeing a few fawns without their mothers now too down the road and not seeing the only little buck that was around the last month.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Stein on August 30, 2021, 05:03:34 PM
I don't think mule deer are anywhere near as susceptible as are whitetail. They're also generally far less skittish
:yeah: I thought it only affected white tail. Cwd is the one that gets mule deer.

Both can get it but it is more prevalent in whitetail, I believe because they tend to congregate more, particularly during dry years.  All ruminants are susceptible to it.

CWD is more prevalent among whitetail as well, likely for the same reason.  It can hit any deer family member, whitetail, mule, blacktail, moose, elk.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on September 07, 2021, 01:45:40 PM
As of today at noon there have been 83 whitetail deer die--or were put down-- because of blue tongue in Colville City limits.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on September 07, 2021, 01:54:58 PM
As of today at noon there have been 83 whitetail deer die--or were put down-- because of blue tongue in Colville City limits.
Idaho says EHD and Washington says Bluetongue.
Anybody find it strange,and what do you guys think?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Stein on September 07, 2021, 02:42:26 PM
I'm sure they do at least some testing to determine what it is, no reason to believe different outbreaks occur in different herds.  It's a fairly similar virus I believe.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: nwwanderer on September 07, 2021, 04:29:11 PM
I was taught that blue tongue is a common name for many EHD problems.  It is a bunch of different viruses spread by a very large family of midges, little fly like beasties you might call no-see-ums.  Very common when conditions are right.  Pretty much all ruminants.  Whitetail are very susceptible as are pronghorns.  Mule deer less so.  Where whitetail are dying fast and furious a few mule deer will die and cattle may only show a snotty nose.  It is so dry in my area the midge population seems to be down and the die off of whitetail is minor so far.  Other areas are really getting whacked, plan accordingly.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on September 10, 2021, 08:28:42 AM
City of Colville is over the 130 dead deer mark. My wife has to take the calls everyday from crying people that have dying deer in their yards..Employees of the city that haul away the dead deer have never seen it this bad in 30 years.  Just think how many deer in rural and forested areas are dying.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 10, 2021, 08:52:28 AM
Horrible. I wonder if we will ever see resistant herds develop after these huge breakouts?

I've basically given up on seeing whitetail regain their footing in my neck of the woods
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: elkboy on September 10, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
Very good article:
Gaydos, J.K., Davidson, W.R., Elvinger, F., Mead, D.G., Howerth, E.W. and Stallknecht, D.E., 2002. Innate resistance to epizootic hemorrhagic disease in white-tailed deer. Journal of Wildlife Diseases, 38(4), pp.713-719.
(available online through scholar.google.com)

Basically, they inoculated groups of captive whitetails from Texas and from Pennsylvania with two different types of EHD virus (epizootic hemorrhagic disease).  The Pennsylvania deer, from a more northern, cooler climate, were incredibly susceptible to EHD, whereas the Texas deer (from a dry, hot climate where outbreaks have long been a part of their environment) were not.  This shows that whitetails exposed to EHD-causing viruses throughout their history do develop resistance. 

Our longer, hotter, drier summers are increasing the frequency of exposed mud in creek bottoms, the breeding site for Culicoides gnats (vector of orbiviruses, including EHD types).  Hence the recent outbreaks.  I think over time, our northern Rockies whitetails will develop resistance, but that may be a long process.  Until then, we'll just see whitetail populations cycle up and down with wet and dry years or decades. 
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on September 10, 2021, 10:06:34 AM
My view from here tells me interruptions of the high/low ehd cycles will become extreme once you add in potential for a bad winter or two and the worsening effects of predation.

Bouncing back will take longer and even possibly be the beginning of a much smaller whitetail herd.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on September 10, 2021, 10:20:18 AM
If we have a hard winter the predators will just about wipe out the remaining herd. Once that happens what will the predators eat?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jrebel on September 10, 2021, 10:22:38 AM
how long ago was the last outbreak?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 10, 2021, 10:24:02 AM
If we have a hard winter the predators will just about wipe out the remaining herd. Once that happens what will the predators eat?

You and your neighbors Pets.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on September 10, 2021, 10:33:11 AM
There have been isolated areas of ehd rather frequently, just nothing of this magnitude.  Been several years since the last fairly bad outbreak around hwy 25 north. 
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: elkboy on September 10, 2021, 11:24:48 AM
There have been isolated areas of ehd rather frequently, just nothing of this magnitude.  Been several years since the last fairly bad outbreak around hwy 25 north.

2015 was a bad year for EHD, at least down here in the southeast corner.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bearpaw on September 11, 2021, 07:30:18 AM
For what you asked Dale, yes the mosquito donut dunks will kill Midge larvae and gnats as well. I live on the western edge of Whitman county and all the whitetail around my place are doing fine there's actually more than I'm used to seeing and the water is still running behind my house. I have a small spring that stays on my property and they seem to be staying around for that water. I also have less mosquitoes this year than I've ever had so the larvae from those Midge flies and other types might be affected also. This was sent out to folks in Kamiah the other day.

Thanks, I googled and found this, I already ordered some to put in the wildlife water tank I have on my place:
https://www.amazon.com/Summit-responsible-solutions-110-12-Mosquito/dp/B0000AH849/ref=psdc_3737941_t2_B07PFQYWBX

 - Kills mosquitoes before they're old enough to bite
 - The only product with bti, bacteria toxic only to mosquito larvae
 - Lasts for 30 days and treats 100 square feet of surface water
 - Non-toxic to all other wildlife , pets, fish, and humans
 - Labeled for organic gardening by the usepa

UPDATE:
This product worked great, there was a lot of insect larvae swimming around in my water tank, a few days after putting one of these in the tank there was none alive in the tank and the animals are still watering, doesn't seem to discourage their use of the waterhole. I'm glad it worked and hoping we can save a few deer around my place. Unfortunately I don't know how many other places they could be watering.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: LDennis24 on September 11, 2021, 08:29:50 AM
That's great Dale! I also threw them into the spring water hole. I have constantly been checking the water too and it's covered in duckweed now so I have to stir it around to look into it. Not seeing much for larvae in mine either. Some water skippers but that's about it. The guy cutting the grass field behind me said he did find a dead doe with the fawns hanging out nearby still and they weren't running around much. I still have alot of whitetails up the flat though when I leave for work so hopefully they are doing ok.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on September 14, 2021, 02:32:21 PM
Saw my first blue tongue deer a doe on my place Sunday. She walked in cycles until she was out front of my house in my field. The game dept didn't return my call, so I called SO and asked for a deputy to come out and put the poor thing down. A Deputy called right back and gave me permission to do the deed. It's not like harvesting a deer this was very emotional for me. I saw another one a 3 point buck yesterday just down the road from my house. By the time a Warden got there the buck was gone. He told me that they are spending most if not all of their time right now dealing with sick or dead deer. I haven't seen blue tongue this bad around here since 1993, the heards have never been the same since that year. Just north of Chewelah.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on September 14, 2021, 02:41:31 PM
how long ago was the last outbreak?
It happens most every year in small areas, but this outbreak is wide spread.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Platensek-po on September 14, 2021, 02:42:50 PM
Saw a report saying they have seen EHD on the westside in blacktail
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ronquillo08 on September 14, 2021, 02:59:02 PM
Saw a report saying they have seen EHD on the westside in blacktail
Can i get a link?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Platensek-po on September 14, 2021, 05:23:04 PM
Saw a report saying they have seen EHD on the westside in blacktail
Can i get a link?

This year, the department also had reports of diseased black-tailed deer in Central Oregon, which is a little unusual, Gillin said. The viruses more often affect white-tailed deer, he said.

ďWe expect it. We've seen it more and more and more over the last 10 years, the more that we've had drought conditions increase,Ē Gillin said.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.opb.org/article/2021/09/12/northwest-deer-dying-of-drought-related-viral-disease/%3foutputType=amp
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bigmacc on September 14, 2021, 08:27:13 PM
Saw a report saying they have seen EHD on the westside in blacktail
Can i get a link?

This year, the department also had reports of diseased black-tailed deer in Central Oregon, which is a little unusual, Gillin said. The viruses more often affect white-tailed deer, he said.

ďWe expect it. We've seen it more and more and more over the last 10 years, the more that we've had drought conditions increase,Ē Gillin said.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.opb.org/article/2021/09/12/northwest-deer-dying-of-drought-related-viral-disease/%3foutputType=amp

EHD has been around for ever pretty much, droughts have been happening from time to time for ever, heck I've lived through many, I remember back in the 80,s when Sullivans pond dried up during about a 10 year drought, ironically during this particular drought the pond is staring to fill up again after 40 or so years(can't figure that one out :dunno:). My point is, more government agencies blaming everything on climate change, now blue tongue is attributed to climate change induced drought. What about all the other outbreaks of blue tongue that have happened since people can remember. My great grandma remembered and told stories about an outbreak of blue tongue(what they later figured, same symptoms etc) that wiped out 100,s of mule deer and white tail in Alberta back in the late 1800,s, when she was just a girl, remembers her dad burying them or burning them on their ranch. Now its climate change, back then it was just 5, 10 or 15 year stretches of hot, dry weather that triggered disease, I guess climate change was around back then to cause it, they just didn't have a "political" name for it yet.....sorry, just an observation concerning blue tongue and some history.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: LDennis24 on September 14, 2021, 08:52:53 PM
I agree bigmacc. I remember when I was in high school hearing reports of the mule deer dying from a mystery disease around the Cheney area then not hearing anything at all and the deer are still here as strong as ever.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jrebel on September 15, 2021, 11:51:17 AM
For what you asked Dale, yes the mosquito donut dunks will kill Midge larvae and gnats as well. I live on the western edge of Whitman county and all the whitetail around my place are doing fine there's actually more than I'm used to seeing and the water is still running behind my house. I have a small spring that stays on my property and they seem to be staying around for that water. I also have less mosquitoes this year than I've ever had so the larvae from those Midge flies and other types might be affected also. This was sent out to folks in Kamiah the other day.

Thanks, I googled and found this, I already ordered some to put in the wildlife water tank I have on my place:
https://www.amazon.com/Summit-responsible-solutions-110-12-Mosquito/dp/B0000AH849/ref=psdc_3737941_t2_B07PFQYWBX

 - Kills mosquitoes before they're old enough to bite
 - The only product with bti, bacteria toxic only to mosquito larvae
 - Lasts for 30 days and treats 100 square feet of surface water
 - Non-toxic to all other wildlife , pets, fish, and humans
 - Labeled for organic gardening by the usepa

UPDATE:
This product worked great, there was a lot of insect larvae swimming around in my water tank, a few days after putting one of these in the tank there was none alive in the tank and the animals are still watering, doesn't seem to discourage their use of the waterhole. I'm glad it worked and hoping we can save a few deer around my place. Unfortunately I don't know how many other places they could be watering.

Just ordered some for my water tank.  Thanks for the update.  I hope they get here in time for me to make a difference.  I empty and fill the water take once a month, but anything to help.   :tup:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ifinch36 on September 19, 2021, 02:36:05 AM
Saw my first blue tongue deer a doe on my place Sunday. She walked in cycles until she was out front of my house in my field. The game dept didn't return my call, so I called SO and asked for a deputy to come out and put the poor thing down. A Deputy called right back and gave me permission to do the deed. It's not like harvesting a deer this was very emotional for me. I saw another one a 3 point buck yesterday just down the road from my house. By the time a Warden got there the buck was gone. He told me that they are spending most if not all of their time right now dealing with sick or dead deer. I haven't seen blue tongue this bad around here since 1993, the heards have never been the same since that year. Just north of Chewelah.

Our group came across a young buck while hunting near colville this last week that had blue tongue. Even though we had never experienced it, it was very obvious he had it. We called fish and game and spoke with a Sgt who told us to dispatch it. I completely relate with it being emotional. I found it really strange how harvesting an animal can be so natural, but putting a sick animal down is so unnatural. I've thought about it a lot and the thing I think it boils down to is taking a life just to kill it. From talking to the Sgt it sounds like as soon as the animal is dead so is the virus. It was definitely the right thing to do, but it still didn't feel right.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on September 19, 2021, 04:16:09 AM
Seen one die in the highway other day.
Thing was out in the highway standing in the middle of lane.
Finally collapsed but still alive ,truck came along and finished her off.
Then I was on a side road in the woods yesterday,seen a dead deer laying there.Think someone dumped it off ,by the tire tracks.
So that's three I seen dead with my own eye.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: ljsommer on September 20, 2021, 10:43:29 AM
I have a late season rifle Palouse white-tail tag I was planning on hunting in November but I have heard nothing but horror stories about the whitetail and bluetongue this year.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: deereman on September 20, 2021, 10:51:56 AM
I had a whitetail buck die last week at my place a hundred yards away from my bunkhouse out in the middle of a meadow pasture between Fishtrap and Edwall. The whitetail population hasnít even began to recover from the last round of blue tongue.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Pathfinder101 on September 20, 2021, 11:26:15 AM
Just found a whitetail doe in the swampy creek behind my house.  The smell alerted us.  Definitely Blue Tongue.   :(
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: ljsommer on September 20, 2021, 11:29:18 AM
Genuine question I've been noodling for a while: With the bluetongue impact as it is, is there a moral quandary around doing a whitetail hunt this November?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 20, 2021, 11:32:55 AM
Does anyone know how the recent rains may affect the outbreak? Will it lessen it?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on September 20, 2021, 12:17:52 PM
I think most of the damage is done by now, still hearing of dead ones found in the 2000 ft elevation and below range, so far doesnt seem to be much of a problem 2500 and up, but thats not fact. 
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: andersonjk4 on September 20, 2021, 12:39:12 PM
Does anyone know how the recent rains may affect the outbreak? Will it lessen it?

I think it would be very location dependent.  Since the midge larva lives in wet mud, it could create more mud and spur more hatching, but at the same time it should create more, and hopefully better, watering options for the deer.

The property I just purchased in southern Spokane county has about a dozen little ponds (which about half are totally dry this year) and according to farmers in years past has been a hot bed for EHD killed deer (30-40 deer one year).  But so far I have not found any dead deer around the ponds yet. So I think it is very location dependent.

Lets all just hope for frosty nights.  One good freeze will put an end to it.   
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Naches Sportsman on September 20, 2021, 12:44:08 PM
Several hunting buddies have been finding quite a few dead deer in Idaho. Was wanting to hunt white tail this year again, but may just settle for a trip in the Frank for Mulies.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Machias on September 20, 2021, 02:05:34 PM
Does anyone know how the recent rains may affect the outbreak? Will it lessen it?

Everything I have read is, it takes a good frost to kill them.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bigmacc on September 20, 2021, 03:47:29 PM
Does anyone know how the recent rains may affect the outbreak? Will it lessen it?

Everything I have read is, it takes a good frost to kill them.
:yeah:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 20, 2021, 03:58:05 PM
Well dang. Hopefully we get a good freeze
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hawgwild on September 20, 2021, 04:49:47 PM
I was out scouting this last weekend with my FIL and we counted 5 dead deer in the Palouse river in about a 1 mile stretch, pretty disheartening.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bearpaw on September 21, 2021, 05:21:53 AM
I was told there have been over 200 dead deer removed from the city of Colville now. Deer sightings are way down, many bucks that hunters have been watching for rifle season have just disappeared. The are areas around alfalfa fields that have a stench to them. Bear have been found feeding on dead deer carcasses.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: KFhunter on September 21, 2021, 06:13:54 AM
Wow, worst year ever  :(
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jrebel on September 21, 2021, 06:53:09 AM
That means the bear are gonna taste like gut piles.....grossss!! 

I read an article a couple days ago and it seemed most of these outbreaks only last 30-60 days on average.  Not sure if that is true or not, but if so we have to be at the tail end of it.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: nwwanderer on September 21, 2021, 08:33:05 AM
With recent rains the midge population can increase until they freeze out.  Shallow, low oxygen muddy water is perfect for these carriers.  No predators in the shallow water to eat them and warm temps accelerate their life cycle.  Clay soils preventing water absorption and road ruts, previous dry ponds and other water sources increase the vector population.  Time for a hard freeze!!!!
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 21, 2021, 08:40:14 AM
I think they are predicted for the temperature to be back in the high 70s this week in South Canada.
 Usually this time of year we get some really warm weather for a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 22, 2021, 04:00:46 AM
The neighbors came down to visit us last night.
While we were sitting on the deck the amount of little gnats buzzing around us was ridiculous.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 22, 2021, 02:45:00 PM
I'm rolling up the sprinklers and I can say that the amount of gnats is insane. If you stand still you are swarmed.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Pathfinder101 on September 22, 2021, 05:11:56 PM
I'm rolling up the sprinklers and I can say that the amount of gnats is insane. If you stand still you are swarmed.
Yeah, wife and I took a walk by Mill Creek the other night.  They chased her back to the truck...
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on September 22, 2021, 06:27:16 PM
I know this may be out there a little bit.
But I for see majors changes coming in hunting seasons,and or other restrictions.
It's sucks that WDFW like to keep population riding this fine line of sustainable population. Then when we have a major event such as this,us hunters will take the hard hit of opportunity.
Anyway some of us or Alot us hunters have been screaming at them for years to take measures to raise the population.
With that said.....
There was and is no way to predict huge events such as this,and being this much more serious year. We all know bluetongue comes through every five years or so.But this year seems really bad.
Just some thoughts that have went through my head.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bow4elk on September 23, 2021, 03:10:20 PM
Latest info from WDFW: https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/diseases/hemorrhagic

Sorry about the formatting - not having any luck making a clean bullet list

About the EHD/Bluetongue outbreak


Signs of infection



Occurrence and spread



What can be done to prevent EHD/Bluetongue?


 

Carcass disposal

Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 24, 2021, 09:28:35 AM
I am watching a doe just show up in my front pasture. The amount of gnats swarming around her is incredible.  She was hanging around the water trough I drained to keep the water from going stagnant.  Then she was heading to the river.  But has only made it about half way and is now laying down next to the fence. 😫
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 24, 2021, 10:36:39 AM
She got up and moved over the hill to the river.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on September 24, 2021, 02:58:15 PM
I am watching a doe just show up in my front pasture. The amount of gnats swarming around her is incredible.  She was hanging around the water trough I drained to keep the water from going stagnant.  Then she was heading to the river.  But has only made it about half way and is now laying down next to the fence. 😫
It's a hard pill to swallow,so I feel ya.
Watched one deer do circles in my neighbors yard for about an hour and fall over dead. Another deer,I got up from a nap,and the wife tells me ,at least ten cars have stoped by our shop. I said ,did you go look ,might be another deer out there dying. Just then I see this deer come down to a busy road by our place. Stands there next to road tail wagging,looking like a normal deer waiting for traffic.
Traffic clears out a little bit jumps down onto road ,just standing there,cars start backing up and they start going around her. This goes on for like 5 minutes.Then she falls over laying on her side ,but still alive,cars still going around.
So I'm like holy crap,I go in the house to grab a pair of work gloves ,cause I don't want to drag this live deer off the road without gloves. Right as I come out the house ,here comes this truck ,and she is laying down pretty flat. I swear this deer sticks its head up in the air just enough ,game over.

I do feel ya ,it's one thing to hear about it ,but to watch it is a little out there.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 24, 2021, 03:32:42 PM
I believe that it's a crying shame the WDFW promotes a false narrative in the 2021 hunting forecast to the sportsman. They are also requiring if you are successful that you need to get them a sample for testing. I saw that site are only open on the weekends over here. Which means you will have to find a official who can accommodate this for the test.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on September 24, 2021, 04:24:53 PM
We have found 8 so far, 5 on on our place. There are probably more but I lost the ability to smell after covid. My wife told me to move along when I stopped in our field to look at this buck, I guess it was pretty bad. Either the coyotes are full on dead and dyeing deer or they don't eat blue tongue deer. I've never seen a dead deer last more than a day or two.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on September 24, 2021, 04:37:38 PM
I'm seeing a lot of fawns sticking together without any adult does around. The 2 does I hauled off were nursing does.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: nwwanderer on September 24, 2021, 04:38:10 PM
They are full, to many to keep up
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: ljsommer on September 24, 2021, 04:49:26 PM
I was told there have been over 200 dead deer removed from the city of Colville now. Deer sightings are way down, many bucks that hunters have been watching for rifle season have just disappeared. The are areas around alfalfa fields that have a stench to them. Bear have been found feeding on dead deer carcasses.

Bearpaw I have asked this question in the thread but the more I read I am increasingly curious as a new-ish hunter: I have a Palouse white tail rifle hunt in November and as a considerate hunter I am seriously thinking about canceling my hunt so as not to add more pressure to an already suffering population. What are your thoughts on this as a veteran hunter?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: teanawayslayer on September 24, 2021, 06:04:33 PM
I was told there have been over 200 dead deer removed from the city of Colville now. Deer sightings are way down, many bucks that hunters have been watching for rifle season have just disappeared. The are areas around alfalfa fields that have a stench to them. Bear have been found feeding on dead deer carcasses.

Bearpaw I have asked this question in the thread but the more I read I am increasingly curious as a new-ish hunter: I have a Palouse white tail rifle hunt in November and as a considerate hunter I am seriously thinking about canceling my hunt so as not to add more pressure to an already suffering population. What are your thoughts on this as a veteran hunter?
why donít you call the bio in that area and ask them how hard there getting hit in Whitman county. Make your decision based on what he says. Iíd turn that tag back in regardless. The tag isnít worth points :twocents:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Stein on September 24, 2021, 06:18:34 PM
 :yeah:

The odds of a good hunt are several orders of magnitude over the odds of drawing again, not to mention the odds you draw again and conditions are better.  We're riding downhill, get what you can when you can is what I would be thinking.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jjhunter on September 24, 2021, 07:42:45 PM
I am not hunting Washington this year.  Our Palouse whitetail are getting hammeredÖ.itís worse than 2015 in the areas I traditionally hunt.

Sucks too.  Early in harvest, deer numbers were the best weíd seen in a long time.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on September 24, 2021, 08:18:30 PM
We have found 8 so far, 5 on on our place. There are probably more but I lost the ability to smell after covid. My wife told me to move along when I stopped in our field to look at this buck, I guess it was pretty bad. Either the coyotes are full on dead and dyeing deer or they don't eat blue tongue deer. I've never seen a dead deer last more than a day or two.
My wife and I have talked about it a bit.
How the coyote and crows won't touch these dead deer .
And it was a little strange,I came home from bear hunting and was taking a nap before I had to go to work.
When I got home ,I seen a coyote jump the busy road and go up the hill,few hours later a sick deer comes down hill and dies.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on September 24, 2021, 08:22:43 PM
I'm seeing a lot of fawns sticking together without any adult does around. The 2 does I hauled off were nursing does.
Same exact thing happening around my place.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on September 25, 2021, 09:43:25 AM
We have found 8 so far, 5 on on our place. There are probably more but I lost the ability to smell after covid. My wife told me to move along when I stopped in our field to look at this buck, I guess it was pretty bad. Either the coyotes are full on dead and dyeing deer or they don't eat blue tongue deer. I've never seen a dead deer last more than a day or two.
My wife and I have talked about it a bit.
How the coyote and crows won't touch these dead deer .
And it was a little strange,I came home from bear hunting and was taking a nap before I had to go to work.
When I got home ,I seen a coyote jump the busy road and go up the hill,few hours later a sick deer comes down hill and dies.
I'm seeing crows and magpies on them.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on September 25, 2021, 10:07:12 AM
We have found 8 so far, 5 on on our place. There are probably more but I lost the ability to smell after covid. My wife told me to move along when I stopped in our field to look at this buck, I guess it was pretty bad. Either the coyotes are full on dead and dyeing deer or they don't eat blue tongue deer. I've never seen a dead deer last more than a day or two.
My wife and I have talked about it a bit.
How the coyote and crows won't touch these dead deer .
And it was a little strange,I came home from bear hunting and was taking a nap before I had to go to work.
When I got home ,I seen a coyote jump the busy road and go up the hill,few hours later a sick deer comes down hill and dies.
I'm seeing crows and magpies on them.
Are you ,well that's kinda a relief in a since,cause the one I seen lay there for almost a week. Didn't see one crow,or anything eat on it. And I was like good God the crows won't even eat it. And I've seen crows eat roadkill skunk and all kinds of nasty.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: MaD1521 on September 25, 2021, 07:25:06 PM
Found two up near tum tum today no wounds on bodies I'm sure this is the cause
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bearpaw on September 25, 2021, 07:44:24 PM
I was told there have been over 200 dead deer removed from the city of Colville now. Deer sightings are way down, many bucks that hunters have been watching for rifle season have just disappeared. The are areas around alfalfa fields that have a stench to them. Bear have been found feeding on dead deer carcasses.

Bearpaw I have asked this question in the thread but the more I read I am increasingly curious as a new-ish hunter: I have a Palouse white tail rifle hunt in November and as a considerate hunter I am seriously thinking about canceling my hunt so as not to add more pressure to an already suffering population. What are your thoughts on this as a veteran hunter?

If you keep the tag hunt it, one person sitting out isn't going to really make a difference. It's the does that build the future of the herd, hopefully WDFW doesn't allow antlerless hunting next year, that will make the biggest difference.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on September 27, 2021, 07:54:16 AM
I was told there have been over 200 dead deer removed from the city of Colville now. Deer sightings are way down, many bucks that hunters have been watching for rifle season have just disappeared. The are areas around alfalfa fields that have a stench to them. Bear have been found feeding on dead deer carcasses.

Bearpaw I have asked this question in the thread but the more I read I am increasingly curious as a new-ish hunter: I have a Palouse white tail rifle hunt in November and as a considerate hunter I am seriously thinking about canceling my hunt so as not to add more pressure to an already suffering population. What are your thoughts on this as a veteran hunter?

If you keep the tag hunt it, one person sitting out isn't going to really make a difference. It's the does that build the future of the herd, hopefully WDFW doesn't allow antlerless hunting next year, that will make the biggest difference.
:yeah: :tup:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: ljsommer on September 30, 2021, 10:04:13 AM
Thank you!
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: nwwanderer on October 01, 2021, 08:04:11 AM
The biologist need to survey now and curtail doe hunts where applicable.  You can expect predator changes, moving wolves, more cat conflict, bears in your garbage and a slow response from WDFW.  Not for a month or more, lots to eat right now.  Sure hope I am wrong about WDFW
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: LDennis24 on October 01, 2021, 09:06:09 AM
I just talked to some folks at WDFW and they have been taking samples of the dead deer North of Spokane but it's mainly for testing for CWD and not about the blue tongue. The dead ones are just easy pickings for samples.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: nwwanderer on October 04, 2021, 03:02:50 PM
Good, Bad and Ugly.
Couple of cool nights, cheat sprouting allowing deer to spread with great feed and high water content

Watch deer daily, my normal 30 to 40 is now under 20

The 15 or so bucks I watched all summer are now about 5

Please hunt accordingly, it appears WDFW is looking for CWD and not responding to reality

Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Pathfinder101 on October 04, 2021, 03:07:54 PM
Drove from Kettle Falls to Spokane last night, going through Addy, Arden, Chewelah and Loon Lake right around the witching hour.  I only saw 3 deer (and I was looking).   :(
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Rutnbuxnbulls on October 05, 2021, 03:54:40 AM
My normal stand site Iíll get 15-20 whitetail does and fawns and a half dozen legal bucks in cam all summer.  This fall getting maybe two to three does a night if that, no bucks all summer/fall. Mule deer seem to be doing better Iím getting more of them this year. Unit 127.
Iím focusing on a mule deer buck. Period. WT need a rest. As a sportsman and conservationist Iíll let the whitetail walk this year. Unless heís over 140Ē!! ;)
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on October 05, 2021, 09:46:47 AM
I have not seen a single deer in the pasture in over 2 weeks. Not even anything tripping the motion lights after dark. 
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on October 05, 2021, 10:15:13 AM
Haven't seen any thing decent on cams,Alot of dinky WT bucks. Here in my backyard went from about a dozen deer,down to about just two. That come in regular.
Coyote was going crazy last night,we are just getting some colder nites and they are yipping like wildfire.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: turkeyfeather on October 05, 2021, 10:52:42 AM
We are in Stevens county. We are not seeing as many deer on cameras. Neighbor has found 6 dead deer (3 bucks) in the last 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on October 05, 2021, 11:36:16 AM
We are in Stevens county. We are not seeing many as deer on cameras. Neighbor has found 6 dead deer (3 bucks) in the last 3 weeks.
We had 3 bucks on our backyard cam,haven't seen any for awhile now.
Not sure if this hits older deer harder,cause have seen little herds of fawns or yearling.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on October 05, 2021, 02:30:00 PM
Drove from Kettle Falls to Spokane last night, going through Addy, Arden, Chewelah and Loon Lake right around the witching hour.  I only saw 3 deer (and I was looking).   :(

Yesterday afternoon til evening (5+ hours glassing) in a spot I have in the past seen several mules and whitetail in the same session, looking for any kind of movement at all ( elk in particular), I saw zero anything move in a very large area.  Once I hit pavement, (Addy/Cedonia), if I didnt see 60 deer on the road home I didnt see a one.  Nearly every field, even a couple young branch antlered wt bucks.  Yes, I was shocked, but Im still seeing lots of does and fawns at my place with 6 bucks from spikes to 4 1/2 yr old. This is at and above 2400 ft.    :dunno:

Ill add out muzzle deer in 101 and 121, few deer sighted up to over 5k ft, and not a single elk so far.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: MooseZ25 on October 05, 2021, 02:36:37 PM
It's still killing deer.  I had to have Stevens County Sheriff come kill another one on Sunday in my back yard just outside of Colville.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Zag11 on October 10, 2021, 10:21:38 AM
Is this primarily affecting deer that live in lower elevations? How about deer upwards of 3000+ feet?

Or is the idea that since the drought concentrated deer around lower water sources that all deer are pretty much affected?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on October 10, 2021, 10:50:51 AM
Still plenty of deer to hunt 3k+ provided you are not in a wolf and other predator hot spot.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Zag11 on October 10, 2021, 01:49:22 PM
Great, thank you for the response.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: highcountry_hunter on October 10, 2021, 07:00:30 PM
Neighbor went for a walk last week behind his place just outside of colville last week and found a dead doe then found a forked horn whitetail on its feet but a complete zombie. Would barely move itís tail and hardly move itís head. He had pics on his phone of the buck and his black lab nose to nose sniffing each other. He said he gently touched it on its back with a stick and it didnít even look over. I told him Iíd go put it down for him if he wanted but his wife is a big time animal lover and wouldnít have went for something like that. He went back the next day and it was in the same spot deader than a bag of hammers.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jjhunter on October 11, 2021, 07:43:12 PM
Found 4 dead bucks yesterday in one field.  Died within last two weeks.  We didnít see a whitetail alive covering a damned good section of whitetail country in Whitman County.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: dvolmer on October 11, 2021, 08:01:59 PM
WDFW came out today with a special email to all hunters that have hunted in Eastern WA in the last 5 years letting them know that they expect low whitetail harvest this season due to blue tongue.  Getting hunters ready for a next weekend opener with not whities around.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: MerriamMagician on October 11, 2021, 09:07:05 PM
I can provide a hunting report for bluetongue from the Clearwater/Salmon river breaks area in Idaho. Obviously not Washington, but not far from the Palouse region of WA.  I've hunted this area for whitetails the last 4 years. Every year have harvested good quality bucks and seen lots of deer. Idaho's deer season opened on the 10th. I was stunned at what I observed this year compared to the last 4. Was there 4 days, 2 scouting and 2 of hunting. All of the areas I normally hunt were devoid of whitetails. I'm talking about 90% less of what I've seen the last 4 years. Even on the private land. I normally see 50-100 whitetail deer a day easily in this area on previous years. This past weekend, in 4 days afield, I saw around 15 whitetails, all does. Heard a lot of the locals saying the whitetail deer have been wiped out this year. So this is just my  :twocents: I saw plenty of mule deer and elk in the area. It would appear that Blue tongue has hit hard all across Eastern WA and Northern Idaho. I'll be making a return trip in November, but I'm not too optimistic things will be better than now.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on October 12, 2021, 05:51:38 AM
This is the best line from the letter.

 
Thank you for your help and awareness when it comes to managing "our" deer populations.
 
Sincerely,

 
Steve Pozzanghera, WDFW
Region 1, Regional Director
2315 North Discovery Place
Spokane Valley, WA 99216



Welcome everyone from western side of the state. Enjoy your time.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: NWBREW on October 12, 2021, 07:41:42 AM
I must be missing something??

Iíll be heading up to the cabin this weekend to see what has taken place in the northern area. I donít hunt until the late season but I do want to take note of what I seeÖor donít see. Does not sound encouraging
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: elkboy on October 12, 2021, 09:24:22 AM
I had the misfortune to draw the second deer WT muzzleloader tag for GMU 142 Almota.  I returned that tag to WDFW with a letter of explanation.  I just can't hunt that tag under the circumstances, and I will likely not hunt my OTC tag this year either, at least not for a whitetail.  Just sad for my beloved Whitman County whitetails.   :'( 
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: T-Dozzer on October 12, 2021, 11:22:21 AM
I have hunted the Palouse for 30 years & haven't seen in this bad. #s are way down.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: vandeman17 on October 12, 2021, 11:29:34 AM
any reports from western montana?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: lastmk8 on October 12, 2021, 12:11:42 PM
any chance someone can post a copy of the email from WDFW?  I didn't get the email although I have been hunting the east side for deer the last 15 years.  WDFW should know this as I also do my harvest reporting on time as well.

Thanks
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on October 12, 2021, 12:34:46 PM
Hello,

You are receiving this email because you have indicated that you have hunted deer in Washington Department of Fish and Wildlifeís (WDFW) Eastern Region in the past five years. If you plan to do so again this year, we would like to make you aware of a disease outbreak that could potentially impact your hunt.

Many white-tailed deer have been affected by an outbreak of Bluetongue and Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease (EHD) in Eastern Washington this summer and fall. We are monitoring this outbreak with the help of the public as well as local and state organizations. The current outbreak appears to be more widespread than in 2015 with reports of affected deer throughout the eastern third of the state and into Idaho.

Hemorrhagic diseases are common in deer and spread by biting Culicoides gnats that live in wet, muddy areas where deer congregate during hot, dry weather. White-tailed deer are commonly affected by these diseases and may die as a result of infection. Mule deer do not typically die from these diseases, but we have documented a few mortalities during this outbreak.

Cooler, wetter weather will allow the deer to spread back out across the landscape and avoid the gnats, but the outbreak will not end until there is a hard frost to kill the gnats that spread these diseases.
 
Given the extent of the outbreak and local severity, it is possible that your success this fall will be impacted. Adult does are the drivers of population growth and prior to this outbreak, WDFW took regulatory steps to substantially reduce harvest of antlerless white-tailed deer. In 2019, we eliminated antlerless harvest throughout District one and, at a broader regional scale, we reduced antlerless harvest around Spokane for the 2021-23 seasons. These changes should mitigate declines attributed to this summerís EHD outbreak. There are no further reductions in white-tailed deer seasons planned at this time. Restrictions or regulations to modify buck harvest are unlikely to change the population trajectory and are therefore unwarranted.
 
Humans are not affected by either EHD or Bluetongue viruses, but we strongly recommend not harvesting and consuming animals that are obviously sick. More information on Bluetongue and EHD is on the WDFW website.
 
Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) is a completely separate disease from Bluetongue and EHD. We have NO confirmed cases of CWD in Washington to date. However, we are initiating a CWD surveillance program this year in northeast Washington.
 
CWD is a fatal illness of deer, elk, moose, and caribou. It is caused by misfolded proteins known as prions that can contaminate the environment and be transmitted between animals through feces, saliva, urine, and other bodily fluids. CWD has been detected in a number of Canadian provinces and U.S. states, the closest being Libby, Montana.
 
If you hunt in game management units (GMUs) 105, 108, 111, 113, 117, 124, or 127, please have your harvested white-tailed deer tested for CWD at a game check station or testing location listed on the attached information sheet. The sheet also includes additional information on CWD, how to help slow the spread of CWD if you hunt in other states, guidelines for handling and consuming deer that are potentially sick, and more. Additional information on CWD and the CWD surveillance program can be found at wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/diseases/chronic-wasting.
 
Thank you for your help and awareness when it comes to managing our deer populations.
 
Sincerely,

 
Steve Pozzanghera, WDFW
Region 1, Regional Director
2315 North Discovery Place
Spokane Valley, WA 99216


Here you are. I don't believe they would give you an accurate number of deer that have died from this if You were to call them. But it could be as high as a 50% perhaps more.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bustedoldman on October 12, 2021, 12:36:06 PM
any chance someone can post a copy of the email from WDFW?  I didn't get the email although I have been hunting the east side for deer the last 15 years.  WDFW should know this as I also do my harvest reporting on time as well.

Thanks

I did not receive one as well...So don't feel left out.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on October 12, 2021, 01:02:23 PM
I see the want to test deer for CWD.
Maybe they did test some ,not sure :dunno:
But it seems like they have had a ton of chances to test deer that are sick or dead already.
The few deer we reported ,nobody showed up to test anything,it was almost like they wanted nothing to do with that.
It's bluetongue ,please dispose of it yourself was the response we got.
I mean wound'nt you want to test deer that are walking in circles and fall over dead.
Just seems to me they have had plenty of dead deer to test,yet they want to test hunter harvested deer.
Does it seem strange or I might just be crazy. :tinfoil:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: LDennis24 on October 12, 2021, 02:18:42 PM
They have been testing them since August already, dead dying and zombie marching deer have all been tested since August. I spoke with the game warden several times about it and posted on here that they are testing for CWD on alot of dead deer. They are literally getting over a hundred calls a day he said about dead or dying deer. He said they have to ignore most of them. This year is a BAD one!
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on October 12, 2021, 02:37:14 PM
Ya sounds like Whitman county/Palouse is toast.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Jrtishchuk on October 13, 2021, 08:35:31 AM
So i have a Palouse buck tag, an I carious to no if anyone had turned there tag in?  Did you get your points back?   An to who can I reach out to turn mine in?   

Thankx..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on October 13, 2021, 08:57:09 AM
Hello,

You are receiving this email because you have indicated that you have hunted deer in Washington Department of Fish and Wildlifeís (WDFW) Eastern Region in the past five years. If you plan to do so again this year, we would like to make you aware of a disease outbreak that could potentially impact your hunt.

Many white-tailed deer have been affected by an outbreak of Bluetongue and Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease (EHD) in Eastern Washington this summer and fall. We are monitoring this outbreak with the help of the public as well as local and state organizations. The current outbreak appears to be more widespread than in 2015 with reports of affected deer throughout the eastern third of the state and into Idaho.

Hemorrhagic diseases are common in deer and spread by biting Culicoides gnats that live in wet, muddy areas where deer congregate during hot, dry weather. White-tailed deer are commonly affected by these diseases and may die as a result of infection. Mule deer do not typically die from these diseases, but we have documented a few mortalities during this outbreak.

Cooler, wetter weather will allow the deer to spread back out across the landscape and avoid the gnats, but the outbreak will not end until there is a hard frost to kill the gnats that spread these diseases.
 
Given the extent of the outbreak and local severity, it is possible that your success this fall will be impacted. Adult does are the drivers of population growth and prior to this outbreak, WDFW took regulatory steps to substantially reduce harvest of antlerless white-tailed deer. In 2019, we eliminated antlerless harvest throughout District one and, at a broader regional scale, we reduced antlerless harvest around Spokane for the 2021-23 seasons. These changes should mitigate declines attributed to this summerís EHD outbreak. There are no further reductions in white-tailed deer seasons planned at this time. Restrictions or regulations to modify buck harvest are unlikely to change the population trajectory and are therefore unwarranted.
 
Humans are not affected by either EHD or Bluetongue viruses, but we strongly recommend not harvesting and consuming animals that are obviously sick. More information on Bluetongue and EHD is on the WDFW website.
 
Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) is a completely separate disease from Bluetongue and EHD. We have NO confirmed cases of CWD in Washington to date. However, we are initiating a CWD surveillance program this year in northeast Washington.
 
CWD is a fatal illness of deer, elk, moose, and caribou. It is caused by misfolded proteins known as prions that can contaminate the environment and be transmitted between animals through feces, saliva, urine, and other bodily fluids. CWD has been detected in a number of Canadian provinces and U.S. states, the closest being Libby, Montana.
 
If you hunt in game management units (GMUs) 105, 108, 111, 113, 117, 124, or 127, please have your harvested white-tailed deer tested for CWD at a game check station or testing location listed on the attached information sheet. The sheet also includes additional information on CWD, how to help slow the spread of CWD if you hunt in other states, guidelines for handling and consuming deer that are potentially sick, and more. Additional information on CWD and the CWD surveillance program can be found at wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/diseases/chronic-wasting.
 
Thank you for your help and awareness when it comes to managing our deer populations.
 
Sincerely,

 
Steve Pozzanghera, WDFW
Region 1, Regional Director
2315 North Discovery Place
Spokane Valley, WA 99216


Here you are. I don't believe they would give you an accurate number of deer that have died from this if You were to call them. But it could be as high as a 50% perhaps more.
I wonder why 121 isn't on the list.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on October 13, 2021, 09:02:44 AM
Or 101 either. Perhaps this is only gmu specific. 🤔
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Shooter4 on October 13, 2021, 11:57:31 AM
121 didnít get hit as hard
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: LDennis24 on October 13, 2021, 12:26:59 PM
It is GMU specific. I called about a buck out in the field at my place in 139 and they said they weren't testing down there. I told them I found three carcasses in a 400yd area. They didn't care.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on October 13, 2021, 12:33:03 PM
It is GMU specific. I called about a buck out in the field at my place in 139 and they said they weren't testing down there. I told them I found three carcasses in a 400yd area. They didn't care.


I think the numbers will look better if they only count in certain areas. Falls into the wolf predator counts.

WDFW response "we are sorry sir we have not heard of any in the general area."  Perhaps you mean those were coyotes.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: turkeyfeather on October 13, 2021, 12:57:21 PM
121 didnít get hit as hard
Our place is in 121.....it got hit pretty hard.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on October 13, 2021, 01:19:55 PM
121 didnít get hit as hard
Our place is in 121.....it got hit pretty hard.

121 got its worst case ever according to those who will speak softly off the record.  Lower elevations/valley bottoms up to just over 2k ft. got absolutely hammered.  Spotty above 2k, I am nearly 2500 and have the same deer Ive had all summer.  I got some reports from some of the farmers/ranchers at or below 2k and they are seeing few or less ( even 0 ) wt in their fields now.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: elkboy on October 13, 2021, 01:49:44 PM
121 didnít get hit as hard
Our place is in 121.....it got hit pretty hard.

121 got its worst case ever according to those who will speak softly off the record.  Lower elevations/valley bottoms up to just over 2k ft. got absolutely hammered.  Spotty above 2k, I am nearly 2500 and have the same deer Ive had all summer.  I got some reports from some of the farmers/ranchers at or below 2k and they are seeing few or less ( even 0 ) wt in their fields now.

Interesting- thanks for sharing.  I have noticed the same.  In areas where I work above ~2700' elevation, I have seen essentially no impact.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: grundy53 on October 13, 2021, 02:21:29 PM
Hopefully that 2,000 foot elevation anecdote holds true elsewhere. My main whitetail spots are above 2,500 feet.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on October 14, 2021, 11:45:12 AM
More email from WDFW:  Blue tongue information.

Hello,
 
You recently received an email informing you that the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) will be surveying for Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) during the modern firearm season this year for those who hunt in Northeast Washington. The information regarding where you can get your harvested white-tailed deer tested for CWD was not included in that email as planned. So if you harvest a deer in GMUs 105, 108, 111, 113, 117, 124, or 127, please take it to one of the following game check stations or locations during the days and times below:
 
Colville WDFW District Office, 755 S. Main St., Colville, WA 99114
Chewelah, intersection of Sand Canyon Road and Highway 395, DOT gravel lot
Deer Park Weigh Station, 65 N. Arlington Road, Deer Park, WA 99006
Ione, Tiger Store/Museum, 390372 State Route 20, Cusick, WA 99119
Usk, Crossroads Restaurant, 421341 State Route 20, Usk, WA 99180
Highway 2 Weigh Station - across highway from Spokane Regional Solid Waste
 
Saturday, Oct. 16 - Sunday, Oct. 17, 2021; 9:30 a.m. - 8 p.m.
Saturday, Oct. 23 - Sunday, Oct. 24, 2021; 9:30 a.m. - 8 p.m.
Saturday, Nov. 6 - Sunday, Nov. 7, 2021; 9:30 a.m. - 8 p.m.
Friday, Nov. 12 - Sunday, Nov. 14, 2021; 9:30 a.m. - 7 p.m.
Thursday, Nov. 18 - Friday, Nov. 19, 2021; 9:30 a.m. - 7 p.m.
 
WDFW offices
You can also have your white-tailed deer sampled on Mondays and Thursdays from 4-6 p.m. during the modern firearm season at:
 
WDFW Colville District Office, 755 S. Main St., Colville, WA 99114
Spokane Regional Office, 2315 N. Discovery Place, Spokane Valley, WA 99216-1566
 
Inland Northwest Wildlife Council
6116 N. Market St., Spokane, WA (call 509-487-8552 to make an appointment)




If you are "Lucky enough to find one" during the week please go to the local office to have it checked..

Still no mention of GMU 121 or 101
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on October 14, 2021, 11:54:00 AM
Got the email to...
But still can I bring a carcass,can I debone the meat first.
What if there not open ,when I harvest.
I guess I'll find out if I harvest anything,I just don't want to harvest and have to turn around and drive to the testing place. I normally ,hang,skin,then next day debone,cut and wrap. The weather we have right now it's alright to hang over night ,but I'm not waiting days or driving to colville.
So my biggest question is can they do this testing after I process or what.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on October 14, 2021, 11:59:01 AM
So what is the turn around on the results? So you get it tested and you get a positive and you have it cut up and frozen in the freezer.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on October 14, 2021, 12:01:26 PM
Hopefully that 2,000 foot elevation anecdote holds true elsewhere. My main whitetail spots are above 2,500 feet.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Overnight temps are the defining factor so it can vary, but if you are looking at 2500+ you can probably count on being good to go.  Of course higher is better.

Odd to exclude 101, 121, but know for sure there is a reason as well as you know the whole of the cwd testing is agenda driven.  With the so called scientific study, wdfw can and will forego the public comment period and public meet and greets and issue results and sentence all at once effective immediately.  Its how they roll.  Baiting will be the casualty of this little program even though theres no cases of cwd west of Libby Mont.  When wdfw does a study, results ALWAYS support their agenda.  You ever hear of any agency even paying for a study that doesnt provide them with what they need to promote their agenda ? Let alone doing an in house study?  Their bait ban agenda has slowly been gaining speed from within and I see it coming down hard and fast.  Dont be surprised.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on October 14, 2021, 01:05:51 PM
So what is the turn around the results? So you get it tested and you get a positive and you have it cut up and frozen in the freezer.
Other states as far as I know ,you wait for results if it comes back positive for CWD, you open your freezer and throw it away.
Not sure on what the turn around for results are.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on October 14, 2021, 01:43:45 PM
Wisconsins page says typically 10-14 days after sample is collected.  But im sure good ol wa. will be different
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on October 14, 2021, 01:50:58 PM
Comforting thought. Would reissue you another tag to repeat the same thing.  A refund would be totally out of the question.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: vandeman17 on October 14, 2021, 02:01:10 PM
So you kill a deer in the NE corner and go get it tested, does that mean no backstraps on the grill that night?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on October 14, 2021, 02:03:25 PM
So you kill a deer in the NE corner and go get it tested, does that mean no backstraps on the grill that night?

101 and 121 are excluded for god knows what reason, so I guess if you harvest in one of those units youre safe ??
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Stein on October 14, 2021, 02:08:15 PM
Yeah, unfortunately the world we live in.  I try not to eat any deer from MT until I get the results back, but after a few whiskey drinks in celebration, something usually gets cooked.  Outside of that, we wait.

I can't remember how long they took last year, seemed like a long time.  They also have a good PDF and video out there how to harvest the glands they need for testing.

I wouldn't trust any game department's assessment, they can easily miss an area as well as hunters moving bones around and spreading it to random areas we thought were safe.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: vandeman17 on October 14, 2021, 02:31:13 PM
Yeah, unfortunately the world we live in.  I try not to eat any deer from MT until I get the results back, but after a few whiskey drinks in celebration, something usually gets cooked.  Outside of that, we wait.

I can't remember how long they took last year, seemed like a long time.  They also have a good PDF and video out there how to harvest the glands they need for testing.

I wouldn't trust any game department's assessment, they can easily miss an area as well as hunters moving bones around and spreading it to random areas we thought were safe.

I killed a deer last year in western montana and didn't have it tested. Its close to gone and so far I don't have a third arm growing out of my forehead
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on October 14, 2021, 02:58:35 PM
So you kill a deer in the NE corner and go get it tested, does that mean no backstraps on the grill that night?

101 and 121 are excluded for god knows what reason, so I guess if you harvest in one of those units youre safe ??
I live in 121 watch deer die right across the street.
And after seeing it ,my wife wants me to have it tested.
So to say it's safe cause it's from 121 is a little out there.
But it's totally up to yourself I guess. I'm not sure if I'm going to lie about where I harvest ,if I do harvest. And I do hunt both units. 117/121
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on October 14, 2021, 03:22:00 PM
So if you can read that correctly you should see it as a rhetorical question, not a statement, and no one is suggesting its safe or that others should feel safe to eat it and everyone is capable of making their own decisions regarding the testing and results, I think.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on October 14, 2021, 03:28:26 PM
So if you can read that correctly you should see it as a rhetorical question, not a statement, and no one is suggesting its safe or that others should feel safe to eat it and everyone is capable of making their own decisions regarding the testing and results, I think.
Correct,correct,agreed,
And I also agree with your suggestions about agenda drivin.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: andersonjk4 on October 17, 2021, 12:14:37 PM
This is a bleak year for the Palouse. In an area my family has been hunting for 50+ years and has always produced deer. There was not a single deer seen on opening day. On a really good year we would easily see 50-100 deer and even the worst years (2015 is the worst I can remember) we saw a dozen or so and still managed to get a few bucks. Not seeing a single deer in this area is startling. Itís going to take a really long time for the whitetail populations to rebound from this.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Broomd on October 17, 2021, 12:43:15 PM
Damn, that's unfortunate news.

We haven't seen much carnage here up in the woods south of CDA, but have heard things were really bad over by Plummer and Westward.  Makes a guy wonder if the really dry flatlands lend to that die-off?

Do flowing creeks help alleviate the issue?

Can say anecdotally that this is the worst fawn crop we've ever witnessed in our area. We know of one fawn dropped of about twenty does we see throughout the area.  We do have four lions in our valley though and they are a problem.

Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Rutnbuxnbulls on October 17, 2021, 03:48:56 PM
Regarding the Palouse area units, we should try to get rid of any wt doe hunts for the next few seasons. Not a lot of predators. Drought, cars, and hunters do the killing.  We can control two of those factors. Or at least if WDFW doesnít remove the doe opportunities, I would hope as ethical hunters we all agree to hunt bucks only or hunt elsewhere. My :twocents:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: andersonjk4 on October 18, 2021, 05:51:41 AM
Luckily the department got rid of all antlerless harvest in 127-142 except for a few days of the youth season.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on October 22, 2021, 05:18:59 AM
I'm only seeing 3 small bucks and a handful of does, like everyone else I always see way more deer in our fields. I haven't even hunted for deer yet this year, I might not. I have 10 trail cams around our land and not one buck and just a few does and 3 different cougars. The cougars could be why I'm not seeing any bucks, I've noticed over the years when I'm seeing cougars in the area the bucks tend to leave. My buddy and I went jump shooting ducks yesterday on the Colville river, we saw 6 dead deer with in a 1/4 mile. 4 were floating in the river. 2 were bucks the floaters had their heads under the water. BTW, the coyotes are not eating them.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on October 22, 2021, 05:23:12 AM
121 didnít get hit as hard
What do you mean??? CWD is different then Blue tongue. BTW, 121 has gotten hit very hard with Blue Tongue.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on October 22, 2021, 05:25:47 AM
Luckily the department got rid of all antlerless harvest in 127-142 except for a few days of the youth season.
I'm sorry, but the game dept. should have shut down all doe harvests this year and offered up refunds and restored points. But they have a reputation of not doing the right thing.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on October 22, 2021, 06:00:37 AM
121 didnít get hit as hard
What do you mean??? CWD is different then Blue tongue. BTW, 121 has gotten hit very hard with Blue Tongue.
I Agree.
Not sure why WDFW is not concerned about 121 ,but it was hit just as hard as all the other GMU.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Rutnbuxnbulls on October 23, 2021, 07:21:41 AM
121 didnít get hit as hard
What do you mean??? CWD is different then Blue tongue. BTW, 121 has gotten hit very hard with Blue Tongue.
I Agree.
Not sure why WDFW is not concerned about 121 ,but it was hit just as hard as all the other GMU.
So, since we can all communicate with each other, my opinion is that we agree to bypass the state and make our own ďethical rulesĒ based on what we have seen this year due to the diseases.

1- donít shoot a wt doe. Period. Not even youth or seniors.
2- hunt for wt in areas not effected by outbreaks. ie-above ~3000k elevation
3- hunt for mule deer if theyíre doing fine in that unit

Itís traumatic to see what has happened but they will repopulate. We need a few good wetter years so letís hope the weather pattern wettens up for all of us. And right away we need a good cold snap to kill the bugs. My  :twocents:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: baldopepper on October 23, 2021, 08:50:55 AM
I can't quite understand why they haven't implemented an emergency closure on the late hunt. I'm seeing a few whitetail around, certainly not as many as past year's, but I'm also seeing a lot of does with no fawns. I think 121 is gonna get pounded harder on the late hunt with the emailed warnings and that hunt during the rut is not a good thing for this year.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on October 23, 2021, 09:07:41 AM
I'm only seeing 3 small bucks and a handful of does, like everyone else I always see way more deer in our fields. I haven't even hunted for deer yet this year, I might not. I have 10 trail cams around our land and not one buck and just a few does and 3 different cougars. The cougars could be why I'm not seeing any bucks, I've noticed over the years when I'm seeing cougars in the area the bucks tend to leave. My buddy and I went jump shooting ducks yesterday on the Colville river, we saw 6 dead deer with in a 1/4 mile. 4 were floating in the river. 2 were bucks the floaters had their heads under the water. BTW, the coyotes are not eating them.

I am seeing the same thing up here in the wedge. I went and pulled sd cards day before yesterday. I have perhaps 5 does and fawns on the cameras. They have been out all summer. I did see one small 2 point and that was the total deer. Had a cougar on the camera on the 29th. After that The dawg wanted some work so we went for a drive to see what was out there. Drove past a favorite spot for the folks who make a long distance drive to come hunt. I thought it was Alderwood mall with the amount of rigs setting in the clearing. We did a little more exploring and drove past at dark. it was lite up like a Parking lot. But during our drive we never past another vehicle. 2 days ago I had the first deer in the pasture in over a month.

Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ghost Hunter on October 25, 2021, 04:32:26 PM
I'm only seeing 3 small bucks and a handful of does, like everyone else I always see way more deer in our fields. I haven't even hunted for deer yet this year, I might not. I have 10 trail cams around our land and not one buck and just a few does and 3 different cougars. The cougars could be why I'm not seeing any bucks, I've noticed over the years when I'm seeing cougars in the area the bucks tend to leave. My buddy and I went jump shooting ducks yesterday on the Colville river, we saw 6 dead deer with in a 1/4 mile. 4 were floating in the river. 2 were bucks the floaters had their heads under the water. BTW, the coyotes are not eating them.

What coyotes?  Haven't seen a coyote on camera or heard one in weeks.  Used to seeing them hunt pocket gophers, and on camera.  And most of the deer dropped off before season started.  This is above 3000'.  Just chuckled at the hunter parked outside my gate.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: elkboy on October 25, 2021, 04:47:42 PM
So, since we can all communicate with each other, my opinion is that we agree to bypass the state and make our own ďethical rulesĒ based on what we have seen this year due to the diseases.

1- donít shoot a wt doe. Period. Not even youth or seniors.
2- hunt for wt in areas not effected by outbreaks. ie-above ~3000k elevation
3- hunt for mule deer if theyíre doing fine in that unit

Itís traumatic to see what has happened but they will repopulate. We need a few good wetter years so letís hope the weather pattern wettens up for all of us. And right away we need a good cold snap to kill the bugs. My  :twocents:

Makes a lot of sense! 
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: TVHunts on October 25, 2021, 05:26:04 PM
So, since we can all communicate with each other, my opinion is that we agree to bypass the state and make our own ďethical rulesĒ based on what we have seen this year due to the diseases.

1- donít shoot a wt doe. Period. Not even youth or seniors.
2- hunt for wt in areas not effected by outbreaks. ie-above ~3000k elevation
3- hunt for mule deer if theyíre doing fine in that unit

Itís traumatic to see what has happened but they will repopulate. We need a few good wetter years so letís hope the weather pattern wettens up for all of us. And right away we need a good cold snap to kill the bugs. My  :twocents:

Makes a lot of sense!

Great post and ethics.  I have passed the last 2 seasons on shooting ďa buckĒ.  Would I pass up a wall hanger, likely not.  But, last seasons numbers were down and this year were down even further.  Itís sad, praying for weather conducive to growing the herds.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: highcountry_hunter on October 29, 2021, 04:28:51 PM
121 didnít get hit as hard
What do you mean??? CWD is different then Blue tongue. BTW, 121 has gotten hit very hard with Blue Tongue.
I Agree.
Not sure why WDFW is not concerned about 121 ,but it was hit just as hard as all the other GMU.
So, since we can all communicate with each other, my opinion is that we agree to bypass the state and make our own ďethical rulesĒ based on what we have seen this year due to the diseases.

1- donít shoot a wt doe. Period. Not even youth or seniors.
2- hunt for wt in areas not effected by outbreaks. ie-above ~3000k elevation
3- hunt for mule deer if theyíre doing fine in that unit

Itís traumatic to see what has happened but they will repopulate. We need a few good wetter years so letís hope the weather pattern wettens up for all of us. And right away we need a good cold snap to kill the bugs. My  :twocents:

I honestly think rule number one should be enforced yearly with one minor exception. On normal years, youth under 14 should be allowed to take does. Other than that, no antlerless draws, no seniors shooting does.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Jingles on October 29, 2021, 04:34:55 PM
121 didnít get hit as hard
What do you mean??? CWD is different then Blue tongue. BTW, 121 has gotten hit very hard with Blue Tongue.
I Agree.
Not sure why WDFW is not concerned about 121 ,but it was hit just as hard as all the other GMU.
So, since we can all communicate with each other, my opinion is that we agree to bypass the state and make our own ďethical rulesĒ based on what we have seen this year due to the diseases.

1- donít shoot a wt doe. Period. Not even youth or seniors.
2- hunt for wt in areas not effected by outbreaks. ie-above ~3000k elevation
3- hunt for mule deer if theyíre doing fine in that unit

Itís traumatic to see what has happened but they will repopulate. We need a few good wetter years so letís hope the weather pattern wettens up for all of us. And right away we need a good cold snap to kill the bugs. My  :twocents:

I honestly think rule number one should be enforced yearly with one minor exception. On normal years, youth under 14 should be allowed to take does. Other than that, no antlerless draws, no seniors shooting does.

I think that is an exceptional idea and totally agree that the youth should go by the same restrictions after all at what age do we stop giving the youth participation trophies and they learn you don't always win? Besides there are more times than folks will admit the youth didn't shoot the deer it was a parent, seen it several times personally.
Would also eliminate 2nd deer draws in specific areas.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on October 29, 2021, 04:39:16 PM
Ya what ever happened to being cut, not even making the team, huh ? 
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: highcountry_hunter on October 29, 2021, 06:38:05 PM
Just my thoughts. By age 14 a kid has the physical and mental ability to perform what it takes to be a hunter, whether they are just starting out or not. Because when a buck gets killed you take 1 deer out of the herd. When a doe gets killed your losing 10+ years of breeding stock depending on her age.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jrebel on October 29, 2021, 08:08:17 PM
Leave youth hunting alone.  Youth killing a "doe" or "any buck" is not going to hurt the population one bit.  There are not enough youth hunters to make that big an impact.  In my opinion the more we let WDFW.....TAKE....opportunity away, the more we cut our own throats.  Youth hunters need success or they will lose interest....period!! 

If you want to make an impact on the deer population in the NE corner....go kill a bear, cougar or yote.  Until a person does one of those three things (preferably all) then they shouldn't have a say in how to manage the deer in the area.  My son killed two bear this year (he is 12) so him shooting a doe / smaller buck still has a net positive on the deer population.  Don't advocate for taking away youth opportunity. 
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on October 29, 2021, 09:17:30 PM
Leave youth hunting alone.  Youth killing a "doe" or "any buck" is not going to hurt the population one bit.  There are not enough youth hunters to make that big an impact.  In my opinion the more we let WDFW.....TAKE....opportunity away, the more we cut our own throats.  Youth hunters need success or they will lose interest....period!! 

If you want to make an impact on the deer population in the NE corner....go kill a bear, cougar or yote.  Until a person does one of those three things (preferably all) then they shouldn't have a say in how to manage the deer in the area.  My son killed two bear this year (he is 12) so him shooting a doe / smaller buck still has a net positive on the deer population.  Don't advocate for taking away youth opportunity.
Well this is the third year I believe that there hasn't been any antlerless harvest in NE Washington. 124 is not a NE unit.
NE Washington youth seasons are and have been gone for awhile. WT where not in great shape before bluetongue.
I'll debate the youth season a little more later.
But hunters need to figure out what's important.
For me as an example.
Traditional seasons
OTC tags with traditional seasons.
Sustainable deer and elk population with the first two above.

You may want your youth to have a doe tag now,but it won't do any good for the "future" of hunting. When he/she has to wait 5-10 years to draw a permit to hunt some struggling deer population of the future.

I'll lay more down later,but yes no one wants to lose opportunity ,and yes youth should be last on the list,but WDFW always cut youth first. It's always been that way don't ask me why,or if it's right .
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Jingles on October 30, 2021, 05:17:44 AM
Leave youth hunting alone.  Youth killing a "doe" or "any buck" is not going to hurt the population one bit.  There are not enough youth hunters to make that big an impact.  In my opinion the more we let WDFW.....TAKE....opportunity away, the more we cut our own throats.  Youth hunters need success or they will lose interest....period!! 

If you want to make an impact on the deer population in the NE corner....go kill a bear, cougar or yote.  Until a person does one of those three things (preferably all) then they shouldn't have a say in how to manage the deer in the area.  My son killed two bear this year (he is 12) so him shooting a doe / smaller buck still has a net positive on the deer population.  Don't advocate for taking away youth opportunity.

So leave youth tags alone? OK at what age do they learn that sometimes you don't always get what you want?
Seems like maybe that should of been  impressed in the minds of those that occupied city blocks of Seattle and trashed Portland to name but 2 of the many cities
Not saying take their youth away from them but you want to participate as an adult here are the rules adults go by. And if you do take a youth deer hunting don't you shoot the deer for the youth, if you're going to do that both youth and adult stay home and out of the woods, at least quit driving the roads saying you are hunting.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: callturner on October 30, 2021, 06:22:25 AM
So if 124 isn't a NE unit what is it? Defiantly east as it borders Idaho. And north of the river.  Until this year whitetails were thick here. the 5 or so tags given out this year for does, youth, seniors, etc could have been taken out of my property. I do still have mule deer, 7 yesterday morning. 5 does and 2 bucks. Give the kids and seniors the opportunity . I would much rather see  young people learning to shoot, and hunt and fish than sitting home playing video games and learning CRT. The blue tongue has surly affected our wt population around here, but it will bounce back. At least we all hope so. It has before. My question is how did wdfw know to cut the doe seasons before the blue tongue was here? This state has the poorest game management in most of the country. Take a kid or senior hunting, I do! My rant is done :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on October 30, 2021, 08:23:41 AM
So if 124 isn't a NE unit what is it? Defiantly east as it borders Idaho. And north of the river.  Until this year whitetails were thick here. the 5 or so tags given out this year for does, youth, seniors, etc could have been taken out of my property. I do still have mule deer, 7 yesterday morning. 5 does and 2 bucks. Give the kids and seniors the opportunity . I would much rather see  young people learning to shoot, and hunt and fish than sitting home playing video games and learning CRT. The blue tongue has surly affected our wt population around here, but it will bounce back. At least we all hope so. It has before. My question is how did wdfw know to cut the doe seasons before the blue tongue was here? This state has the poorest game management in most of the country. Take a kid or senior hunting, I do! My rant is done :IBCOOL:
You could call it NE Washington if you want. But each area is a different biologists,ect,ect.
They didn't know bluetongue was gonna hit ,NE WA was not doing great before.
Just like your above statement ,you can't do deer counts on private land and call it hunter opportunity,but that what WDFW does.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Ridgeratt on October 30, 2021, 08:33:57 AM
So if 124 isn't a NE unit what is it? Defiantly east as it borders Idaho. And north of the river.  Until this year whitetails were thick here. the 5 or so tags given out this year for does, youth, seniors, etc could have been taken out of my property. I do still have mule deer, 7 yesterday morning. 5 does and 2 bucks. Give the kids and seniors the opportunity . I would much rather see  young people learning to shoot, and hunt and fish than sitting home playing video games and learning CRT. The blue tongue has surly affected our wt population around here, but it will bounce back. At least we all hope so. It has before. My question is how did wdfw know to cut the doe seasons before the blue tongue was here? This state has the poorest game management in most of the country. Take a kid or senior hunting, I do! My rant is done :IBCOOL:


If you go by everyone from the area west of Pacific Crest trail everything that is east of the summit is Eastern Washington..   :dunno:

Have the family group of 4 does in the back pasture right now.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on October 30, 2021, 08:56:36 AM
While wdfw talks out of one side of its mouth saying deer numbers are fine, they then pull the doe tags to indicate otherwise.  It also could be they pulled the doe tags so there would be a few more deer for the wolves to have hopefully for the short term, alleviating wolf
-cattle conflict, and dont think thats a stretch as thats exactly what their plan was when the took cow (elk) harvest away from bowhunters, even though they said it was to grow the herds for more hunter opportunity.  If that was the case they wouldnt be giving out depredation tags to everyone with alfalfa fields.

WDFW is a mystery, NEVER EVER telling the truth.  Dont rely on them to do the right thing and dont depend on them to make changes that will help ungulates.   :twocents:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on October 30, 2021, 11:17:20 AM
While wdfw talks out of one side of its mouth saying deer numbers are fine, they then pull the doe tags to indicate otherwise.  It also could be they pulled the doe tags so there would be a few more deer for the wolves to have hopefully for the short term, alleviating wolf
-cattle conflict, and dont think thats a stretch as thats exactly what their plan was when the took cow (elk) harvest away from bowhunters, even though they said it was to grow the herds for more hunter opportunity.  If that was the case they wouldnt be giving out depredation tags to everyone with alfalfa fields.

WDFW is a mystery, NEVER EVER telling the truth.  Dont rely on them to do the right thing and dont depend on them to make changes that will help ungulates.   :twocents:
I Agree with all that.
I can't remember the years it was,I wanna say 2015-2016 . WDFW gave all muzzleloader,all bow hunters OTC antlerless opportunity,on top of that a couple hundred modern firearm antlerless permits.
I just googled and looked 2015 was antlerless for everybody but modern,2016 the regs came out saying antlerless for archery and muzzleloader,they tryed to send out those correction saying any buck.

Basically what I'm trying to say is WDFW got greedy gave out antlerless opportunity to a huge amount of hunters in one year. Harvest rates started to decline along with a massive amount of complaints to bring back 4pt min and predators. WDFW gave away all youth opportunities in the NE Washington in one year,2015. So there solution to up the population was to take away all antlerless.  Don't quote me but 2014 was 4pt min,2015 was a blood bath,2014-2017 are highest harvest for NE Washington with a declining harvest since 2017 ,and a HUGE decline in 4 and 5 points since the 4pt min. Mature bucks mate many does,young bucks that are more likely to get shot mate less  does. You can have a 100 Doe but if only 10 breed population stays the same.
I'm not a biologist,but this is common since stuff.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Stein on October 30, 2021, 11:24:31 AM
Leave youth hunting alone.  Youth killing a "doe" or "any buck" is not going to hurt the population one bit.  There are not enough youth hunters to make that big an impact.  In my opinion the more we let WDFW.....TAKE....opportunity away, the more we cut our own throats.  Youth hunters need success or they will lose interest....period!! 

If you want to make an impact on the deer population in the NE corner....go kill a bear, cougar or yote.  Until a person does one of those three things (preferably all) then they shouldn't have a say in how to manage the deer in the area.  My son killed two bear this year (he is 12) so him shooting a doe / smaller buck still has a net positive on the deer population.  Don't advocate for taking away youth opportunity.

 :yeah:  The way WDFW has slashed youth tags is incredibly sad.  They are also pretty hostile to third party groups trying to put youth hunts together with depredation tags.  If a guy didn't know better, it would look like they are doing what they can to trim future hunter numbers.

From my anecdotal experience of 2 kids, getting them on a hunt where they have plenty of time to get in position, line up and take a nice, easy, relaxed shot is incredibly helpful for at least their first deer.

There used to be really great youth tags but between the state and whatever reason for the private draws, it's a shell of it's former self.  It was the one part of the draw system that actually worked and that's quickly going to heck along with the rest of it.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jrebel on October 30, 2021, 11:25:46 AM
Leave youth hunting alone.  Youth killing a "doe" or "any buck" is not going to hurt the population one bit.  There are not enough youth hunters to make that big an impact.  In my opinion the more we let WDFW.....TAKE....opportunity away, the more we cut our own throats.  Youth hunters need success or they will lose interest....period!! 

If you want to make an impact on the deer population in the NE corner....go kill a bear, cougar or yote.  Until a person does one of those three things (preferably all) then they shouldn't have a say in how to manage the deer in the area.  My son killed two bear this year (he is 12) so him shooting a doe / smaller buck still has a net positive on the deer population.  Don't advocate for taking away youth opportunity.

So leave youth tags alone? OK at what age do they learn that sometimes you don't always get what you want?
Seems like maybe that should of been  impressed in the minds of those that occupied city blocks of Seattle and trashed Portland to name but 2 of the many cities
Not saying take their youth away from them but you want to participate as an adult here are the rules adults go by. And if you do take a youth deer hunting don't you shoot the deer for the youth, if you're going to do that both youth and adult stay home and out of the woods, at least quit driving the roads saying you are hunting.

I'm not sure what youth doe tags and participation trophies have in common???  Just because a youth can kill a doe doesn't necessarily mean they will.  Maybe I am skewed because I have private property and we have plenty of does running around.  When we bought it, the kids could shoot does and now they cannot.  My daughter is is 14 shot her first deer this year and it was a young buck....so not all youth hunters will shoot does.  I think it is easy to make the assumption that because it is an option, all kids / youth exercise that option.  Taking opportunity away from our youth is going in the wrong direction. 

I'm tired of the state taking away our hunting opportunity and heritage if you will.  The more they take from our youth, the less youth will participate......thus leading to the demise of hunting.  That is what our state wants and it makes me sick that others will play right into their hands. 

Kill a predator or two and save our deer, elk and / or moose herds. 

I will repeat....the youth harvest on does is not the problem!! 
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on October 30, 2021, 11:33:23 AM
Leave youth hunting alone.  Youth killing a "doe" or "any buck" is not going to hurt the population one bit.  There are not enough youth hunters to make that big an impact.  In my opinion the more we let WDFW.....TAKE....opportunity away, the more we cut our own throats.  Youth hunters need success or they will lose interest....period!! 

If you want to make an impact on the deer population in the NE corner....go kill a bear, cougar or yote.  Until a person does one of those three things (preferably all) then they shouldn't have a say in how to manage the deer in the area.  My son killed two bear this year (he is 12) so him shooting a doe / smaller buck still has a net positive on the deer population.  Don't advocate for taking away youth opportunity.

So leave youth tags alone? OK at what age do they learn that sometimes you don't always get what you want?
Seems like maybe that should of been  impressed in the minds of those that occupied city blocks of Seattle and trashed Portland to name but 2 of the many cities
Not saying take their youth away from them but you want to participate as an adult here are the rules adults go by. And if you do take a youth deer hunting don't you shoot the deer for the youth, if you're going to do that both youth and adult stay home and out of the woods, at least quit driving the roads saying you are hunting.

I'm not sure what youth doe tags and participation trophies have in common???  Just because a youth can kill a doe doesn't necessarily mean they will.  Maybe I am skewed because I have private property and we have plenty of does running around.  When we bought it, the kids could shoot does and now they cannot.  My daughter is is 14 shot her first deer this year and it was a young buck....so not all youth hunters will shoot does.  I think it is easy to make the assumption that because it is an option, all kids / youth exercise that option.  Taking opportunity away from our youth is going in the wrong direction. 

I'm tired of the state taking away our hunting opportunity and heritage if you will.  The more they take from our youth, the less youth will participate......thus leading to the demise of hunting.  That is what our state wants and it makes me sick that others will play right into their hands. 

Kill a predator or two and save our deer, elk and / or moose herds. 

I will repeat....the youth harvest on does is not the problem!!
I Agree ,I like to see youth harvest something.
But look at 124 it's had a few years of youth,disabled,senior.
Just youth this year.
WDFW already reduced the youth season this year. And who knows about next year.
They say 124 has declining deer population.
So the question,regardless of predators is how far down the rabbit hole do you go before you back out.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jrebel on October 30, 2021, 12:07:43 PM
Leave youth hunting alone.  Youth killing a "doe" or "any buck" is not going to hurt the population one bit.  There are not enough youth hunters to make that big an impact.  In my opinion the more we let WDFW.....TAKE....opportunity away, the more we cut our own throats.  Youth hunters need success or they will lose interest....period!! 

If you want to make an impact on the deer population in the NE corner....go kill a bear, cougar or yote.  Until a person does one of those three things (preferably all) then they shouldn't have a say in how to manage the deer in the area.  My son killed two bear this year (he is 12) so him shooting a doe / smaller buck still has a net positive on the deer population.  Don't advocate for taking away youth opportunity.

So leave youth tags alone? OK at what age do they learn that sometimes you don't always get what you want?
Seems like maybe that should of been  impressed in the minds of those that occupied city blocks of Seattle and trashed Portland to name but 2 of the many cities
Not saying take their youth away from them but you want to participate as an adult here are the rules adults go by. And if you do take a youth deer hunting don't you shoot the deer for the youth, if you're going to do that both youth and adult stay home and out of the woods, at least quit driving the roads saying you are hunting.

I'm not sure what youth doe tags and participation trophies have in common???  Just because a youth can kill a doe doesn't necessarily mean they will.  Maybe I am skewed because I have private property and we have plenty of does running around.  When we bought it, the kids could shoot does and now they cannot.  My daughter is is 14 shot her first deer this year and it was a young buck....so not all youth hunters will shoot does.  I think it is easy to make the assumption that because it is an option, all kids / youth exercise that option.  Taking opportunity away from our youth is going in the wrong direction. 

I'm tired of the state taking away our hunting opportunity and heritage if you will.  The more they take from our youth, the less youth will participate......thus leading to the demise of hunting.  That is what our state wants and it makes me sick that others will play right into their hands. 

Kill a predator or two and save our deer, elk and / or moose herds. 

I will repeat....the youth harvest on does is not the problem!!
I Agree ,I like to see youth harvest something.
But look at 124 it's had a few years of youth,disabled,senior.
Just youth this year.
WDFW already reduced the youth season this year. And who knows about next year.
They say 124 has declining deer population.
So the question,regardless of predators is how far down the rabbit hole do you go before you back out.

124 wouldn't be in the situation it's in had they not taken away youth opportunity in every other GMU in the state (At least the NE corner).  WDFW has no clue what they are doing.  No different than only allowing one or two open GMU's in the North Central area for late archery mule deer.  When you shut down all but one or two GMU's...you congregate all hunter to that GMU and see a disproportionate affect of hunters killing deer.  Keep GMU's open and allow the dispersal of hunters.  Success rate will remain the same regardless, this is shown in harvest states over many years.  10% of you hunters kill 90% of the deer annually.  90% of hunters like to camp and hike with their rifles.  Both are OK....and neither should be restricted by WDFW piss poor management. 

Again....maybe I am skewed based on my experience with private land deer.  I have seen no major decline and even a increase in deer numbers based on my management practices of my land.  It's not a lot...but it is also not public land.  We pulled trail cams last week and on our way home (before it got dark) we counted over 100 deer just driving.  A lot of this is private.....so again, that is not a good / great way to base my experiences.   
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Emptyhanded on October 30, 2021, 12:52:27 PM
Leave youth hunting alone.  Youth killing a "doe" or "any buck" is not going to hurt the population one bit.  There are not enough youth hunters to make that big an impact.  In my opinion the more we let WDFW.....TAKE....opportunity away, the more we cut our own throats.  Youth hunters need success or they will lose interest....period!! 

If you want to make an impact on the deer population in the NE corner....go kill a bear, cougar or yote.  Until a person does one of those three things (preferably all) then they shouldn't have a say in how to manage the deer in the area.  My son killed two bear this year (he is 12) so him shooting a doe / smaller buck still has a net positive on the deer population.  Don't advocate for taking away youth opportunity.

So leave youth tags alone? OK at what age do they learn that sometimes you don't always get what you want?
Seems like maybe that should of been  impressed in the minds of those that occupied city blocks of Seattle and trashed Portland to name but 2 of the many cities
Not saying take their youth away from them but you want to participate as an adult here are the rules adults go by. And if you do take a youth deer hunting don't you shoot the deer for the youth, if you're going to do that both youth and adult stay home and out of the woods, at least quit driving the roads saying you are hunting.

I'm not sure what youth doe tags and participation trophies have in common???  Just because a youth can kill a doe doesn't necessarily mean they will.  Maybe I am skewed because I have private property and we have plenty of does running around.  When we bought it, the kids could shoot does and now they cannot.  My daughter is is 14 shot her first deer this year and it was a young buck....so not all youth hunters will shoot does.  I think it is easy to make the assumption that because it is an option, all kids / youth exercise that option.  Taking opportunity away from our youth is going in the wrong direction. 

I'm tired of the state taking away our hunting opportunity and heritage if you will.  The more they take from our youth, the less youth will participate......thus leading to the demise of hunting.  That is what our state wants and it makes me sick that others will play right into their hands. 

Kill a predator or two and save our deer, elk and / or moose herds. 

I will repeat....the youth harvest on does is not the problem!!
I Agree ,I like to see youth harvest something.
But look at 124 it's had a few years of youth,disabled,senior.
Just youth this year.
WDFW already reduced the youth season this year. And who knows about next year.
They say 124 has declining deer population.
So the question,regardless of predators is how far down the rabbit hole do you go before you back out.

124 wouldn't be in the situation it's in had they not taken away youth opportunity in every other GMU in the state (At least the NE corner).  WDFW has no clue what they are doing.  No different than only allowing one or two open GMU's in the North Central area for late archery mule deer.  When you shut down all but one or two GMU's...you congregate all hunter to that GMU and see a disproportionate affect of hunters killing deer.  Keep GMU's open and allow the dispersal of hunters.  Success rate will remain the same regardless, this is shown in harvest states over many years.  10% of you hunters kill 90% of the deer annually.  90% of hunters like to camp and hike with their rifles.  Both are OK....and neither should be restricted by WDFW piss poor management. 

Again....maybe I am skewed based on my experience with private land deer.  I have seen no major decline and even a increase in deer numbers based on my management practices of my land.  It's not a lot...but it is also not public land.  We pulled trail cams last week and on our way home (before it got dark) we counted over 100 deer just driving.  A lot of this is private.....so again, that is not a good / great way to base my experiences.   
This is spot on from what Iíve seen hunting 124. Having 124 as the only unit with ďany deerĒ for youth and seniors drew an insane amount of pressure to the public lands and private timber land that are open to the public. Between that increased pressure and increasing predator populations my typical hunting area have been hammered. Almost every Hunter I talked to last year and the year before said they were ďlooking for doesĒ. It is pretty sad to see the state our whitetail populations are currently in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on October 30, 2021, 01:11:51 PM

I Agree with all that.
I can't remember the years it was,I wanna say 2015-2016 . WDFW gave all muzzleloader,all bow hunters OTC antlerless opportunity,on top of that a couple hundred modern firearm antlerless permits.
I just googled and looked 2015 was antlerless for everybody but modern,2016 the regs came out saying antlerless for archery and muzzleloader,they tryed to send out those correction saying any buck.

Basically what I'm trying to say is WDFW got greedy gave out antlerless opportunity to a huge amount of hunters in one year. Harvest rates started to decline along with a massive amount of complaints to bring back 4pt min and predators. WDFW gave away all youth opportunities in the NE Washington in one year,2015. So there solution to up the population was to take away all antlerless.  Don't quote me but 2014 was 4pt min,2015 was a blood bath,2014-2017 are highest harvest for NE Washington with a declining harvest since 2017 ,and a HUGE decline in 4 and 5 points since the 4pt min. Mature bucks mate many does,young bucks that are more likely to get shot mate less  does. You can have a 100 Doe but if only 10 breed population stays the same.
I'm not a biologist,but this is common since stuff.

If you go in to QDMA, National deer assoc., etc, you will find newest scientific studies show most bucks are not the prolific breeders they once thought.  Several does yes, many many, no.

I have to think all wdfw management changes and strategies are 100% because of wolves.  More deer, elk, less cattle/livestock problems.  Predators are their focus, ungulates are the sacrifice period. No matter what other maybes and perhaps we can come up with, nothing matters but wolves/predators NATURAL food source being abundant enough for them AND if theres some left to hunt so be it until there isnt. 
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: nwwanderer on October 30, 2021, 01:20:59 PM
Much more than the NE corner.  The rains we have had are giving decent feed for winter survival but after the blue tongue clean up the predator pressure is going to be off the charts.  Any critters of yours making a home outside probably need to be in the living room.  PS, goats, sheep, hogs and calves can make quite a racket, the big ones, horses, sows, cows need room on the porch, sleep will
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Seabass on October 30, 2021, 03:24:23 PM
We have had 2 bouts of  blue tongue in 6 years. The department sucksÖfor sureÖjust like the rest of Washingtonís worthless bureaucrats. They suck enough that I moved to ID after being being a lifelong (47 years) WA resident. That said, they canít stop blue tongue. The NE would have been pretty good for the next few years had we not had the drought that always brings blue tongue. There were a lot of 3-4 y/o bucks running around last winter.


Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: TriggerMike on November 04, 2021, 01:10:07 PM
So, is it even worth the drive to hunt the late hunt this year in 121/117? Asking for opinions either way.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: hunter399 on November 04, 2021, 01:19:02 PM
So, is it even worth the drive to hunt the late hunt this year in 121/117? Asking for opinions either way.
Totally up too you.
Some areas got hit pretty hard,other areas don't seem so bad.And some areas are hammered dog 💩 ,before bluetongue.
So really it just depends on the area ,how well it was doing before bluetongue. But I will just come out and say it ,if you haven't taged out ,then you really have nothing to lose.
This is coming from a dry sider ,see how nice I am.

I guess what I'm saying is ,if you have areas that had a ton of deer last year then your ok,if your areas didn't have Alot of deer last year,they didn't get any better that's for sure
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Machias on November 04, 2021, 01:58:53 PM
I'm seeing ZERO deer activity, nada, none, zilch.

Two questions for you guys, how many years (Understanding there are a LOT of variables) do you think it takes for them to recover in the hardest hit areas?

Do you think any of the larger bucks that survived will have to spend more time looking this year, i.e. travel more and spend more time in daylight looking for does?
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jrebel on November 04, 2021, 02:05:36 PM
So, is it even worth the drive to hunt the late hunt this year in 121/117? Asking for opinions either way.

No one else is gonna stop huntingÖ.why should you?   Point being, one person staying home isnít gonna change the course of whatís happened.   

Blue tongue has happened before and it will happen again.  The deer will recover and people will continue to hunt. 

I personally believe you should come over and hunt and if your luckyÖ.whack a cougar.  They are a far more prolific killer than blue tongue and are killing 365 days a yearÖ.year after year.   
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on November 04, 2021, 03:23:11 PM
Each night Im home on the binos I will see 12+ does and up to 6 bucks from spike to 9pt.  Im just under 2500' ele.  Just looked at pics from 2 cams up the hill and there are 8ish bucks I can tell, the 9 being the biggest so far. Since traveling bucks during rut usually account for the bigger bucks here, its still up in the air as to what will show besides the ones I know.  I dont know anyone who wont hunt because of blue tongue.  It is what it is, so get out there and get above 2200ish ft (in the fog) and give'r hell.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: PA BEN on November 12, 2021, 02:51:28 PM
Very low numbers so far. I'm seeing 6 to 8 deer in our field when we should have up to 50.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Seabass on November 12, 2021, 05:18:49 PM
So, is it even worth the drive to hunt the late hunt this year in 121/117? Asking for opinions either way.

No one else is gonna stop huntingÖ.why should you?   Point being, one person staying home isnít gonna change the course of whatís happened.   

Blue tongue has happened before and it will happen again.  The deer will recover and people will continue to hunt. 

You would have to be here to believe how bad it is. Come over and you can see for yourself.

I personally believe you should come over and hunt and if your luckyÖ.whack a cougar.  They are a far more prolific killer than blue tongue and are killing 365 days a yearÖ.year after year.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: Seabass on November 12, 2021, 05:31:51 PM
Come over for a weekend and you can see how bad it is for yourself.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: fishngamereaper on November 12, 2021, 05:47:34 PM
We found several in just 5 days of hunting in Idaho. Sad to see.

On average it takes 3-5 years for area's to recover fully.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: jrebel on November 12, 2021, 06:34:58 PM
Come over for a weekend and you can see how bad it is for yourself.

I've got property over there and will be hunting this week.  We have not seen the impact others are saying they have.  Clearly some areas were hit harder than others......so give it a go and see what happens. 

All this doom and gloom is killing me.  Some act like blue tongue has never affected the area before.  If more people were as vocal about cats as they are about blue tongue....maybe we could all make progress on protecting our deer herds. 


Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: snake on November 12, 2021, 08:23:30 PM
I would agree with the 3-5 year recovery period.  In my experience, whitetail are like cockroaches. The only 2 things that will be left after a nuclear war.  They recover pretty quick. My Washington spot wasn't hit too hard. It has a fair amount of running water year round so that might have helped.
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: bearpaw on November 13, 2021, 09:28:55 AM
I'm seeing ZERO deer activity, nada, none, zilch.

Two questions for you guys, how many years (Understanding there are a LOT of variables) do you think it takes for them to recover in the hardest hit areas?

Do you think any of the larger bucks that survived will have to spend more time looking this year, i.e. travel more and spend more time in daylight looking for does?

I think how long it takes to recover depends on three primary variables:

1. The winter severity we have following a die off
2. The seasons WDFW gives hunters after a die off
3. The predator foot print in a given area

It was looking a lot better this summer than the last few years, but we had not completely recovered from the last big die off several years ago.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Blue Tongue
Post by: buckfvr on November 13, 2021, 10:03:19 AM
Hearing of a couple ( state bios ) candid conversations, second hand, the last die of a few years back doesnt even come close to this year and this year was the worse they have ever seen by far.
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