Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Bear Hunting => Topic started by: andersonjk4 on October 11, 2021, 10:27:20 AM

Title: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: andersonjk4 on October 11, 2021, 10:27:20 AM
I posted this in another thread, but thought it may get more eyeballs here.  Only takes a second.  The survey just asks if you generally agree or disagree or are neutral to the Spring Bear WAC.  Only takes a second.  Please share where ever you can.   

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/season-setting (https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/season-setting)
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: TheStovePipeKid on October 11, 2021, 10:47:16 AM
Done.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: jrebel on October 11, 2021, 10:54:44 AM
Done
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: krolelov on October 12, 2021, 09:38:48 AM
done. I am curious how people who oppose the spring bear hunting know about the proposal while a lot of hunters don't? :dunno:
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: Special T on October 12, 2021, 12:12:58 PM
done. I am curious how people who oppose the spring bear hunting know about the proposal while a lot of hunters don't? :dunno:

I believe this is organizational strategy... one of the compaints we have heard here and elsewherr is that sportsmen dont show up. Everytime comment periods come around the Antis know that it is attack time and sportsmen are busy doing something else. We have to stand gaurd and and vigilant otherwise we will constantly get opportunities chipped away.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: whacker1 on October 12, 2021, 07:12:32 PM
done, very easy
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: brokentrail on October 12, 2021, 07:26:12 PM
Done.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: cougforester on October 12, 2021, 07:27:39 PM
Commented a couple days ago. Actually surprised to see how many pro hunting comments there were with solid logic and reasoning. All the anti's were purely based on emotion.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: grousetracker on October 12, 2021, 07:34:25 PM
done
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: Stein on October 12, 2021, 08:40:19 PM
done. I am curious how people who oppose the spring bear hunting know about the proposal while a lot of hunters don't? :dunno:

I believe this is organizational strategy... one of the compaints we have heard here and elsewherr is that sportsmen dont show up. Everytime comment periods come around the Antis know that it is attack time and sportsmen are busy doing something else. We have to stand gaurd and and vigilant otherwise we will constantly get opportunities chipped away.

The survey also splits hunters, we should put up a poll.  I could argue we should agree with the spring hunting.  I also could argue we should oppose the current proposal which again reduces the tags available, an unfortunate trend.  I think I said it on the other thread, it should be two questions 1) Do you support spring hunting?  and if yes, then 2) Do you support the proposed regulations?

The way it's written you either support reducing tags again this year or oppose spring hunting altogether. 
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: krolelov on October 12, 2021, 10:30:15 PM
done. I am curious how people who oppose the spring bear hunting know about the proposal while a lot of hunters don't? :dunno:

I believe this is organizational strategy... one of the compaints we have heard here and elsewherr is that sportsmen dont show up. Everytime comment periods come around the Antis know that it is attack time and sportsmen are busy doing something else. We have to stand gaurd and and vigilant otherwise we will constantly get opportunities chipped away.

andersonjk4 thanks for creating this thread. Everyone who reads this should participate. It literally takes a couple of minutes.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: elkrack on October 12, 2021, 11:43:21 PM
Done. Crazy they want to deduct permits🤦🏻‍♂️
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: GASoline71 on October 13, 2021, 08:16:42 AM
done. I am curious how people who oppose the spring bear hunting know about the proposal while a lot of hunters don't? :dunno:

I believe this is organizational strategy... one of the compaints we have heard here and elsewherr is that sportsmen dont show up. Everytime comment periods come around the Antis know that it is attack time and sportsmen are busy doing something else. We have to stand gaurd and and vigilant otherwise we will constantly get opportunities chipped away.

The survey also splits hunters, we should put up a poll.  I could argue we should agree with the spring hunting.  I also could argue we should oppose the current proposal which again reduces the tags available, an unfortunate trend.  I think I said it on the other thread, it should be two questions 1) Do you support spring hunting?  and if yes, then 2) Do you support the proposed regulations?

The way it's written you either support reducing tags again this year or oppose spring hunting altogether.

I didn't like that part either, and I made it clear in my comments that I was displeased with the reduction of tags.  In their wording if I support spring bear hunting than I am okay with tag reductions.  Which is horse pucky the way they did that.  Hell, there should be a OTC spring bear tags available for many areas of the state.  I outlined that in my comments as well.

Gary
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: 85yota on October 15, 2021, 02:54:23 PM
Not sure if this was posted but my dad sent me a link through the Seattle times... So plz comment.because the city might make a bear.policy again that isnt scientific
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: Mtnwalker on October 15, 2021, 03:04:28 PM
Not sure if this was posted but my dad sent me a link through the Seattle times... So plz comment.because the city might make a bear.policy again that isnt scientific

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/public-comment-on-washingtons-spring-bear-hunting-seasons-coming-to-close/
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: avidnwoutdoorsman on October 15, 2021, 03:59:06 PM
That's the key here. You have to add a comment. Even as simple as I agree with a spring bear hunt but disagree with a tag reduction. If you want to add a little more to spice it up then do, but the comments get generalized. If there was a generalization that people in agreeance supported the spring hunt but it was commonly noted they opposed the tag reduction that would be a bad thing.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: ShedHead20 on October 15, 2021, 04:32:21 PM
If you clear your recent browser history you can comment multiple times.

You could also comment in support of Spring Bear season and select the option "Non-Hunter".

The solution to pollution is dilution!
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on October 15, 2021, 04:46:33 PM
If you clear your recent browser history you can comment multiple times.

You could also comment in support of Spring Bear season and select the option "Non-Hunter".

The solution to pollution is dilution!
.
 :yeah:
.
Even if you already commented, daily, hourly, whatever....

.
Let's actually show them we have a voice!
.
If you cannot dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your *censored*!
.
Public record will show overwhelming support of otc spring bear, and increased predator control if we comment just once a day.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: ShedHead20 on October 15, 2021, 04:52:39 PM
If you clear your recent browser history you can comment multiple times.

You could also comment in support of Spring Bear season and select the option "Non-Hunter".

The solution to pollution is dilution!
.
 :yeah:
.
Even if you already commented, daily, hourly, whatever....

.
Let's actually show them we have a voice!
.
If you cannot dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your *censored*!
.
Public record will show overwhelming support of otc spring bear, and increased predator control if we comment just once a day.

I know of about 25 "Non-Hunters" who just showed their strong support for a OTC Spring bear hunt in WA  :chuckle:
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: cem3434 on October 15, 2021, 06:33:58 PM
Done
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: Grousehunter19 on October 20, 2021, 10:30:19 AM
Hey guys I just counted permits handed out this year compared to the ones in the proposal, and it seems like there cutting permits by 10. Would it then be wise to disagree with the amendment? Or would that cut permits even further?
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: Special T on October 20, 2021, 10:44:43 AM
Hey guys I just counted permits handed out this year compared to the ones in the proposal, and it seems like there cutting permits by 10. Would it then be wise to disagree with the amendment? Or would that cut permits even further?

Antis are pushing to close spring bear, so I push for over the counter.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: luvmystang67 on October 20, 2021, 12:57:41 PM
Hey guys I just counted permits handed out this year compared to the ones in the proposal, and it seems like there cutting permits by 10. Would it then be wise to disagree with the amendment? Or would that cut permits even further?

Antis are pushing to close spring bear, so I push for over the counter.

+1

I push for OTC based on science.  We have the largest bear population in the lower 48, there's no good reason the spring tag shouldn't be an OTC tag.  Science supports this.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: Grousehunter19 on October 20, 2021, 01:12:12 PM
Ya, but it seems like the comment period is on a change in policy that would decrease spring bear hunting by 10 tags to what was given this year. I want OTC tags for spring bear, so should I just disagree with the policy that will lower tags and then say I want OTC tags?
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: mcrawfordaf on October 20, 2021, 01:12:51 PM
Pushed for OTC as well.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: Stein on October 20, 2021, 01:24:15 PM
Ya, but it seems like the comment period is on a change in policy that would decrease spring bear hunting by 10 tags to what was given this year. I want OTC tags for spring bear, so should I just disagree with the policy that will lower tags and then say I want OTC tags?

Good question.  Tags are down over 18% since 2017 and the trend is to reduce the tags every year, eliminating at least one area altogether.  WDFW anticipates about a 22% success rate according to the Times article.

It's hard from the outside to say whether this is really to gather opinion or simply cut off the argument HSUS made in a previous lawsuit that WDFW didn't notify the public what it was considering for the spring hunt.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: Special T on October 20, 2021, 01:41:20 PM
Hey guys I just counted permits handed out this year compared to the ones in the proposal, and it seems like there cutting permits by 10. Would it then be wise to disagree with the amendment? Or would that cut permits even further?

Antis are pushing to close spring bear, so I push for over the counter.

+1

I push for OTC based on science.  We have the largest bear population in the lower 48, there's no good reason the spring tag shouldn't be an OTC tag.  Science supports this.

I belive we are tied for 3rd place #1. Alaska    #2. Maine #3 wash Or I'd all are estimated 25-30k
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: raydog on October 21, 2021, 11:35:37 AM
Bump. Last day!
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: Mulie87 on October 21, 2021, 09:46:43 PM
https://www.thenewstribune.com/opinion/article255005787.html

Hereís another article. Given the media attention and this leftist state, I bet spring bear hunts will be eliminated pretty soon. Hunting continues to be attacked.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: Special T on October 21, 2021, 10:15:04 PM
https://www.thenewstribune.com/opinion/article255005787.html

Hereís another article. Given the media attention and this leftist state, I bet spring bear hunts will be eliminated pretty soon. Hunting continues to be attacked.

I belive that we will be able to should out till the legislative session. Lots of good comments supporting the season have been made due to efforts here and elsewhere. We will really need to engage the legislature  to get rid of Smith and Koontz. I have heard rumblings that more than sportsmen want them gone. I belive that is why they were never confirmed.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 22, 2021, 06:01:57 AM
I hope more people make comments as there is a concerted effort by anti hunting groups to whittle away at our hunting rights.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: hunter399 on October 22, 2021, 06:22:17 AM
Well if we all want OTC SPRING bear hunt ,we need to propose it now as a rule change 2022 or 23 ,whenever the three year rules change comes up.
In addition ,we would have to look at fall,spring,statewide total bear harvest for the past few years. Come up with a plan that can keep harvest rates about the same as now.
Another additional would be hunter orange requirement,and illegal to shoot sows with cubs.

It would have to be proposed in a way that makes it much harder to just say NO.
But at the end of the day ,us as hunter won't work together,everybody has opinion,or management plan that is different.
So I really don't see it working.
Title: Re: **WDFW Spring Bear Public Comment Period open through 10/21/2021**
Post by: Special T on October 22, 2021, 11:32:56 AM
Extended 5pm nov1
Title: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: GASoline71 on November 15, 2021, 04:17:26 PM
Did anyone catch the Commission Zoom meeting this morning? I was on my way to a Dr appt and it was about a 45 minute drive.  The meeting started at 8:30am and I didn't start listening until 8:45am.  I got a notification on FB about a live meeting on "TV Washington".  So I plugged the phone in to the aux cord in my rig and was able to listen while I drove.  I was so pissed at some of the members for their outright distrust of hunters and their condescending sneers as they spoke of hunters.  Certain members are surely on board with their "feelings" about Spring Bear season, and not any kind of science based facts.  Barbara Baker's comments were nauseating, and her disdain for hunters and hunting seasons are evident when she spoke. I don't know all the commission members by name, but it is painfully obvious which ones don't trust the hunting public at all, and I think they let their anti-hunting flags show.

There were some bright spots as one of the members named "Stephanie" (I didn't catch her last name), blasted the other members for using their emotions to drive their questions and ignore any kind of scientific data that was presented to them by the WDFW biologists.  And I mean she let them have it.  I was late to my Dr. appointment just so I could sit in my truck and listen to her end the meeting with a level headed and science based management approach.

They are really hung up on the "possibility" of the harvest of a sow with cubs.  And I mean, REALLY hung up on it.  It's one of the driving factors to take these hunts away.  That and most of the commission's disdain for hunters in general. 

Don't want to make this a "the sky is falling" type of thread.  But it was sickening listening to just how the commission really feels about hunters, and Our Hunting heritage.

Gary
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Special T on November 15, 2021, 05:32:22 PM
 :Lorna Smith and Points are the other really bad commissioners  I'll have to watch it
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: GASoline71 on November 15, 2021, 06:07:10 PM
:Lorna Smith and Points are the other really bad commissioners  I'll have to watch it

I found the TVW Live Feed:

https://www.tvw.org/watch/?eventID=2021111123

Gary
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 15, 2021, 07:20:41 PM
I got through most of it, I think the biggest takeaway was Stephanie and the the blonde gal acknowledged that this was predominantly a social issue rather than a biological issue.

The bears are there, the science supports the spring hunt and 2 bear increases in the NE,  but the decisions are largly tainted by emotion.

I sensed a great deal of frustration between WDFW staff and the anti's on the commission. 


WDFW staff did a great job in this meeting, they came off very patient, informative yet stood their ground as the antis deuced on their science.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Special T on November 15, 2021, 07:22:59 PM
I got through most of it, I think the biggest takeaway was Stephanie and the the blonde gal acknowledged that this was predominantly a social issue rather than a biological issue.

The bears are there, the science supports the spring hunt and 2 bear increases in the NE,  but the decisions are largly tainted by emotion.

I sensed a great deal of frustration between WDFW staff and the anti's on the commission.

Plenty of Antis on the carnivore section.  But a bunch of them are the Dark side folks.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 15, 2021, 07:25:09 PM
I'm still no fan of DFW, and yes they're infiltrated with anti's, but the ones present here did well imo
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: GASoline71 on November 15, 2021, 08:07:36 PM
I'm still no fan of DFW, and yes they're infiltrated with anti's, but the ones present here did well imo

I thought the commissioners that are not antis stood their ground pretty darn well too.

Gary
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KNOPHISH on November 15, 2021, 08:30:13 PM
Hearing the op of what happened grinds my gears. Just pissed now and deleted a bunch of rants I wanted to post.  :bash:
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: raydog on November 19, 2021, 09:48:58 AM
If Iím reading this correctly, It appears as though we lost spring bear hunting.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: raydog on November 19, 2021, 09:51:27 AM
If true. Thanks Washington for giving me another reason to pack my bags.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 19, 2021, 09:54:07 AM
Done in WA, they'll not get another dime.

No way in hell will a wolf hunt EVER be passed

Next up, ending lion hunting
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: bearpaw on November 19, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
I haven't purchased a Washington hunting license of any type for two years and likely never will again. Additional reason right here!
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Duckslayer89 on November 19, 2021, 10:07:03 AM
Wow.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: TriggerMike on November 19, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
How is there not some sort of tie breaker in place for these situations?
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: mburrows on November 19, 2021, 10:34:39 AM
Unbelievable
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KNOPHISH on November 19, 2021, 10:50:10 AM
Ya a tie does not equal a loss. Tie goes to the runner and should remain the same. Mass support for spring bear so how can they deny it?

 That is a great pic of a great bear and great hunters  :tup:
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: bigtex on November 19, 2021, 10:52:35 AM
Ya a tie does not equal a loss. Tie goes to the runner and should remain the same. Mass support for spring bear so how can they deny it?
To change/approve a law/reg there needs to be a majority, there is no majority in a 4-4 vote. "Tie goes to the runner" is not how the law works.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KNOPHISH on November 19, 2021, 11:02:02 AM
I see the other thread about all the antis on the zoom meeting. Good timing to call it during opening week of hunting season when weíre mostly in the field. But I saw a lot of support for it, did all our letters and calls get deleted? was there evidence of lots of sows being killed or just heresay. Why are biologists and science ignored?
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: raydog on November 19, 2021, 11:08:11 AM
Ya a tie does not equal a loss. Tie goes to the runner and should remain the same. Mass support for spring bear so how can they deny it?
To change/approve a law/reg there needs to be a majority, there is no majority in a 4-4 vote. "Tie goes to the runner" is not how the law works.

Why would they completely remove an existing season if was a tie? Wouldnít it resort back to what we had the year before. I was under the impression that they were only proposing to lower the permit numbers in a certain unit. But know we have no bear season in the spring at all.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: bobcat on November 19, 2021, 11:08:51 AM
Very disappointing. I actually was planning on applying for a spring bear hunt in 2022. I usually only apply for the point. Would have been in the draw with 11 points.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 19, 2021, 11:10:31 AM
7 here, which is already ridiculous

Maybe 6 I dunno, don't much matter now  :bash:
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: bigtex on November 19, 2021, 11:12:00 AM
Ya a tie does not equal a loss. Tie goes to the runner and should remain the same. Mass support for spring bear so how can they deny it?
To change/approve a law/reg there needs to be a majority, there is no majority in a 4-4 vote. "Tie goes to the runner" is not how the law works.
Why would they completely remove an existing season if was a tie? Wouldnít it resort back to what we had the year before. I was under the impression that they were only proposing to lower the permit numbers in a certain unit. But know we have no bear season in the spring at all.
Because the current regulation is only valid for that hunting season, in this case 2021. The Commission was voting on the season/regs for 2022.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 19, 2021, 12:49:23 PM
WAIT WAIT WAIT!!! ALL OF YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTHS AND LISTEN......
I'll bet everyone here $1 that you will still be able to BUY a spring bear point this year.
 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Karl Blanchard on November 19, 2021, 12:51:52 PM
WAIT WAIT WAIT!!! ALL OF YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTHS AND LISTEN......
I'll bet everyone here $1 that you will still be able to BUY a spring bear point this year.
 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
no way I'd take that bet. I need my dollars.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: hunter399 on November 19, 2021, 01:06:42 PM
WAIT WAIT WAIT!!! ALL OF YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTHS AND LISTEN......
I'll bet everyone here $1 that you will still be able to BUY a spring bear point this year.
 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
no way I'd take that bet. I need my dollars.
They can kiss it.
There loss ,no drawing,no money from me.
I'm not ghost point on a whim that they will bring back spring bear hunting .
More bears for fall hunting anyway,screw em.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Karl Blanchard on November 19, 2021, 01:08:10 PM
WAIT WAIT WAIT!!! ALL OF YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTHS AND LISTEN......
I'll bet everyone here $1 that you will still be able to BUY a spring bear point this year.
 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
no way I'd take that bet. I need my dollars.
They can kiss it.
There loss ,no drawing,no money from me.
I'm not ghost point on a whim that they will bring back spring bear hunting .
More bears for fall hunting anyway,screw em.
unfortunately you're probably in the minority as lots of folks will look at this as a year to jump ahead in the points pool or are too scared to fall a point behind.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Mtnwalker on November 19, 2021, 01:10:49 PM
I see the other thread about all the antis on the zoom meeting. Good timing to call it during opening week of hunting season when weíre mostly in the field. But I saw a lot of support for it, did all our letters and calls get deleted? was there evidence of lots of sows being killed or just heresay. Why are biologists and science ignored?

They always seem to have impeccable timing with their meetings. It's ALMOST as if it's deliberate
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: idahohuntr on November 19, 2021, 01:19:10 PM
Not that it has been good, but I think this turns a whole new chapter with WDFW.  Even more opportunity is going to erode in the near future, this is likely just the start of a new tsunami of losses for hunters.  Such a sad state of affairs.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: bobcat on November 19, 2021, 01:23:56 PM
I don't see how they could sell spring bear applications in 2022 even if it were only so a person could apply for a point. No special permits available, no applications available. Anything else defies logic.

There may not be any spring bear permits in 2023, or ever again.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 19, 2021, 01:28:06 PM
I don't see how they could sell spring bear applications in 2022 even if it were only so a person could apply for a point. No special permits available, no applications available. Anything else defies logic.

There may not be any spring bear permits in 2023, or ever again.

Agree, see this quote


Not that it has been good, but I think this turns a whole new chapter with WDFW.  Even more opportunity is going to erode in the near future, this is likely just the start of a new tsunami of losses for hunters.  Such a sad state of affairs.


both 100% spot on.  If I were a WDFW bio, I'd be feeling very disenfranchised right about now.   

Emotion > All your hard work. 
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: bearmanric on November 19, 2021, 01:33:55 PM
Sad
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 19, 2021, 01:36:37 PM
Watch this at 1:01:01 until 1:01:40

https://www.tvw.org/watch/?eventID=2021111123


Say's all you need to know
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 19, 2021, 01:53:03 PM
You see donít you thatÖ
Seattle runs Washington
Portland runs Oregon
Boise runs Idaho
Denver+a couple others runs Colorado

Do we need a fish and game commission when there is no fishing and gaming?
Does it matter when a increase in taxes will make up for the small shortfall in the general fund?

Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: dwils233 on November 19, 2021, 02:13:51 PM
Not that it has been good, but I think this turns a whole new chapter with WDFW.  Even more opportunity is going to erode in the near future, this is likely just the start of a new tsunami of losses for hunters.  Such a sad state of affairs.

Dead on. Everyone talks about slippery slopes but this is the most evident one I've actually seen happen and we need to respond as such.

It's one thing when it's an initiative. It's a whole different matter when the commission is ignoring the entire agency science and leadership
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: buckfvr on November 19, 2021, 02:15:35 PM
How can commissioners who havent been through the confirmation by Senate process have the power to change our hunting seasons ?  They should be a voteless member of the commission until confirmed.   :twocents:
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 19, 2021, 02:21:32 PM
Watch this at 1:01:01 until 1:01:40

https://www.tvw.org/watch/?eventID=2021111123


Say's all you need to know

Did any of you watch this?   I'm trying to put the snip on youtube, seems to be the only way to get views
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: idahohuntr on November 19, 2021, 02:31:52 PM
Watch this at 1:01:01 until 1:01:40

https://www.tvw.org/watch/?eventID=2021111123


Say's all you need to know

Did any of you watch this?   I'm trying to put the snip on youtube, seems to be the only way to get views
Yes, that has been a point raised a few times in commission meetings...staff telling commissioners this is a social issue because there is no scientific or population level basis for eliminating spring bear hunts. 

And I don't disagree...a lot of issues in wildlife management are social issues.  Thats why its so frightening this commission now has the votes to do really bad things for hunters, anglers, and conservation. 

I'm a firm believer in the wildlife being owned by the people, but its a tough pill to swallow when you are in the clear minority and can see the writing on the wall.

Our only hope is that there are some moderate democrats in the legislature who can join with the R's and tell Inslee to cut this crap...get rid of these BS commissioners and keep more reasonable people on the commission who are not interested in pushing a divisive agenda.  Wishful thinking I'm sure. 

I agree with your earlier comment...tough to be a WDFW employee right now.  At least with a mask mandate the more sane ones won't be questioned for wearing a bag over their head when they go to work. 
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 19, 2021, 02:32:00 PM
Here ya go, if I did this correctly


Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 19, 2021, 02:44:43 PM
Iím not sure who that is confirming that itís accurate but thatís a RMEF calendar in their office.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 19, 2021, 02:49:20 PM
Iím not sure who that is confirming that itís accurate but thatís a RMEF calendar in their office.


Stephanie Simek, WDFWís carnivore section manager
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: bigtex on November 19, 2021, 03:09:40 PM
If I were a WDFW bio, I'd be feeling very disenfranchised right about now.   

Emotion > All your hard work.
:yeah:
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Clark33 on November 19, 2021, 03:47:10 PM
Anyone have the Chairmans email handy?
Title: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Clark33 on November 19, 2021, 04:31:46 PM
I would highly recommend contacting the commission regarding the loss of spring bear season.  Granted it won't change anything now, but let know we disagree with the decision.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/contact
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: KNOPHISH on November 19, 2021, 05:38:46 PM
And another to insleeze to rid commission of unconfirmed members.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hunter399 on November 19, 2021, 06:41:56 PM
I've contacted them more than my own family.
If I contact them more ,I would be on my way to that 24/7 wedding Chappell in Vegas with commission members.
 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 19, 2021, 06:53:29 PM
Would someone please list all of the rules they broke with procedure?
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hunter399 on November 19, 2021, 07:05:18 PM
Contact them please!!!
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: bigtex on November 19, 2021, 07:23:25 PM
Would someone please list all of the rules they broke with procedure?
What rules were broken?
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Tbar on November 19, 2021, 07:53:17 PM
Would someone please list all of the rules they broke with procedure?
What rules were broken?
:yeah:
I don't believe any apa rules were broken.  There was a lot of operations in a grey area like topic specific testimony. Also a lot of poor etiquette along the way. 
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: sagerat on November 19, 2021, 08:09:11 PM
Would someone please list all of the rules they broke with procedure?
What rules were broken?

None so everythingís fine. This state is awesome.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Timberstalker on November 19, 2021, 08:43:44 PM
Little by little, they are winning. Whatís next? No more fall season?

Good bye ungulates.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Duckslayer89 on November 19, 2021, 08:58:20 PM
I wonder how this is going to affect bearpaw? I feel for an outfitter in this state. Or any state for that matter nowadays.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 19, 2021, 09:36:25 PM
But what would ďtheyĒ say if we posted a buncha videos of spring bears tearing baby bears limb from limb??
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Duckslayer89 on November 19, 2021, 09:38:33 PM
But what would ďtheyĒ say if we posted a buncha videos of spring bears tearing baby bears limb from limb??

Lmao no *censored*!!!! My friend killed a big boar in the spring it had a cub at its feet dead eating it. They think these things are the Bernstein Bears man i swear
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: actionshooter on November 19, 2021, 10:21:39 PM
I am a concerned about the lackluster interest in this from the membership here.... the antihunters just kicked our asses with zero science backing the decision.... only the vocal minority.    The is the beginning of the end of hunting... it might take 40 years, but the end result will be the same.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: actionshooter on November 19, 2021, 10:24:22 PM
 As posted on the other thread...

I am a concerned about the lackluster interest in this from the membership here.... the antihunters just kicked our asses with zero science backing the decision.... only the vocal minority.    The is the beginning of the end of hunting... it might take 40 years, but the end result will be the same.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: millerwheeler on November 19, 2021, 10:37:41 PM
As posted on the other thread...

I am a concerned about the lackluster interest in this from the membership here.... the antihunters just kicked our asses with zero science backing the decision.... only the vocal minority.    The is the beginning of the end of hunting... it might take 40 years, but the end result will be the same.

Agreed we have to all fight harder
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Special T on November 19, 2021, 11:28:30 PM
I am a concerned about the lackluster interest in this from the membership here.... the antihunters just kicked our asses with zero science backing the decision.... only the vocal minority.    The is the beginning of the end of hunting... it might take 40 years, but the end result will be the same.

Written comments counted the same as verbal. Antis had 1200 form letters of 2 variations. I belong to organizations that wrote in and I did as well.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: elkrack on November 20, 2021, 06:09:05 AM
Money talks. If enough people could get together and not buy licenses for one year I bet it would have much more of impact than the antis letters! This is why the left wins they are organized and we are not🤬🤬🤬
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hughjorgan on November 20, 2021, 08:50:07 AM
There is supposed to be 9 commissioners 3 from western wa, 3 eastern and 3 at large. The vote was a 4-4 tie because inslee HASNíT appointed a 3rd eastern wa commissioner
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: boneaddict on November 20, 2021, 08:51:09 AM
I bet they still offer the option for buying points.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: boneaddict on November 20, 2021, 08:51:57 AM
Itís my fault, I asked for more units to have tags Ö..this is how they responded.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hunter399 on November 20, 2021, 08:55:46 AM
I bet they still offer the option for buying points.
From what I read on there website is,
That spring bear hunt is on pause for a year.
So yes I agree they will still sell points.
I'm not sure if I will go that route.

Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: X-Force on November 20, 2021, 09:01:36 AM
Itís my fault, I asked for more units to have tags Ö..this is how they responded.

I did the same
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 20, 2021, 09:03:59 AM
 :yeah:
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: idahohuntr on November 20, 2021, 10:04:03 AM
Which 4 commissioners voted against the spring hunts?  I'm sure Baker, Koontz, and Smith were three of them...who was the fourth?
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Special T on November 20, 2021, 10:06:51 AM
Which 4 commissioners voted against the spring hunts?  I'm sure Baker, Koontz, and Smith were three of them...who was the fourth?

Turn coat Chairman Carpenter. May his name be erased from sportsmen past positive comments. He makes me ill
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: BUTTER on November 20, 2021, 10:14:33 AM
Well I look like a fool, I asked for more units as the bear populations in a few areas in SW are becoming absurd. Now we have none, this is ludicrous. Wife keeps asking for Idaho, guess this is another reason for it.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 20, 2021, 10:32:01 AM
Stephanie Simek, WDFWís carnivore section manager
Just to verifyÖ WDFW and the Carnivore Section Manager have their hands tied and it is the commissionís decision to make. Ms Simek was simply confirming the leading question that was asked of her.
Correct?
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: X-Force on November 20, 2021, 10:45:05 AM
Well I look like a fool, I asked for more units as the bear populations in a few areas in SW are becoming absurd. Now we have none, this is ludicrous. Wife keeps asking for Idaho, guess this is another reason for it.

My wife too, Idaho, Wyoming, South Dakota
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 20, 2021, 10:51:35 AM
Would someone please list all of the rules they broke with procedure?
What rules were broken?
That's what I'm asking. Were they required to hear from the GMAC before voting on this? I don't understand this vote at all.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: bigtex on November 20, 2021, 11:02:34 AM
Would someone please list all of the rules they broke with procedure?
What rules were broken?
That's what I'm asking. Were they required to hear from the GMAC before voting on this? I don't understand this vote at all.
The GMAC is simply an advisory commission. The Commission can essentially do what they want, no matter what advisory commissions or agency staff recommend.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: bigtex on November 20, 2021, 11:06:54 AM
Stephanie Simek, WDFWís carnivore section manager
Just to verifyÖ WDFW and the Carnivore Section Manager have their hands tied and it is the commissionís decision to make. Ms Simek was simply confirming the leading question that was asked of her.
Correct?
Yes

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 20, 2021, 11:12:09 AM
Would someone please list all of the rules they broke with procedure?
What rules were broken?
That's what I'm asking. Were they required to hear from the GMAC before voting on this? I don't understand this vote at all.
The GMAC is simply an advisory commission. The Commission can essentially do what they want, no matter what advisory commissions or agency staff recommend.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
So, what's the point of the GMAC then if their recommendations aren't taken into consideration by the commission? Seems to me it's a complete waste of their efforts and any expense incurred.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: actionshooter on November 20, 2021, 11:15:22 AM
Would someone please list all of the rules they broke with procedure?
What rules were broken?
That's what I'm asking. Were they required to hear from the GMAC before voting on this? I don't understand this vote at all.
The GMAC is simply an advisory commission. The Commission can essentially do what they want, no matter what advisory commissions or agency staff recommend.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk



Hey Bigtex... What do you feel the likelihood of getting legislation passed that would make all wildlife regulations based on the science and biologist recommendations?  I have read that other states are working on this but haven't heard of it here.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: buckfvr on November 20, 2021, 11:15:51 AM
GMAC is a tool for protocol and lip service.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: bigtex on November 20, 2021, 11:16:23 AM
Would someone please list all of the rules they broke with procedure?
What rules were broken?
That's what I'm asking. Were they required to hear from the GMAC before voting on this? I don't understand this vote at all.
The GMAC is simply an advisory commission. The Commission can essentially do what they want, no matter what advisory commissions or agency staff recommend.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
So, what's the point of the GMAC then if their recommendations aren't taken into consideration by the commission? Seems to me it's a complete waste of their efforts and any expense incurred.  :dunno:
Their role is to simply advise/provide a recommendation on a limited focus area. For the GMAC it's game management. These advisory commissions have no actual authority and in most instances aren't even required by law. But like I said, the Commission doesn't have to follow their recommendation.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 20, 2021, 11:19:45 AM
Would someone please list all of the rules they broke with procedure?
What rules were broken?
That's what I'm asking. Were they required to hear from the GMAC before voting on this? I don't understand this vote at all.
The GMAC is simply an advisory commission. The Commission can essentially do what they want, no matter what advisory commissions or agency staff recommend.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk



Hey Bigtex... What do you feel the likelihood of getting legislation passed that would make all wildlife regulations based on the science and biologist recommendations?  I have read that other states are working on this but haven't heard of it here.
The term science has new meanings now. "The science" is now what our government says it is.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: JJB11B on November 20, 2021, 11:25:52 AM
Thatís odd because I drew a tag.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: idahohuntr on November 20, 2021, 11:35:19 AM
Which 4 commissioners voted against the spring hunts?  I'm sure Baker, Koontz, and Smith were three of them...who was the fourth?

Turn coat Chairman Carpenter. May his name be erased from sportsmen past positive comments. He makes me ill
Wow.  That surprises me a bit and is very disappointing.  He must want something from the other 3.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 20, 2021, 11:38:55 AM
Stephanie Simek, WDFWís carnivore section manager
Just to verifyÖ WDFW and the Carnivore Section Manager have their hands tied and it is the commissionís decision to make. Ms Simek was simply confirming the leading question that was asked of her.
Correct?

Yes, all of the WDFW staff in the video presented studies, evidence, and were for continuing the spring bear hunt as was WDFW director Susewind.

Baker (the commissioner, a politician, asking the question of Stephanie) voted no on the spring bear hunt due to public testimony in the last commission meeting where they got 90% public disapproval.  She voted according to that.

The other 3 are anti hunters and will always vote against hunters.

Hunters don't show up, due to bad times (working or hunting) or they don't know it going down, or have simply given up.

Meanwhile the 3 antis on the commission send out notices to all the anti hunting groups and collaborate a big turn out at these meetings.  This gives the anti hunting commissioners ammunition to vote down anything they want.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: KFhunter on November 20, 2021, 11:42:10 AM
Thatís odd because I drew a tag.

Which is sad because I think a lot of people already have those tags, and these tags are going to grow and grow in numbers.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Torrent50 on November 20, 2021, 11:57:26 AM
I know the commission is it's own entity, but I just got done writing my Senator and two Reps to express my disgust and make them aware.  Not sure that they can/would do anything, but maybe.... 

Worth a shot though.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: KFhunter on November 20, 2021, 12:10:39 PM
Inslee appoints the members.

State senate then confirms the appointments

I think its wortheile to write your district senator because several of them aren't confirmed, yet they're voting on issues.



Read this
http://www.sci-washington.com/advocacy.html
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hughjorgan on November 20, 2021, 12:24:55 PM
Inslee appoints the members.

State senate then confirms the appointments

I think its wortheile to write your district senator because several of them aren't confirmed, yet they're voting on issues.



Read this
http://www.sci-washington.com/advocacy.html

And there is still an open position in eastern wa that hasnít been appointed
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: KFhunter on November 20, 2021, 12:26:07 PM
Inslee already has what he wants in this commission, the lefty westside vote
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 20, 2021, 12:33:23 PM
Good. I donít want people bashing her based on the way she gave her answer.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hughjorgan on November 20, 2021, 12:40:02 PM
Itís pretty BS especially since eastern wa is primarily effected by not following the science of providing a spring season. That commissioner would of been the deciding vote.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: time2hunt on November 20, 2021, 08:04:10 PM
Time to join the tribal hunters I guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Harbor_hunter on November 20, 2021, 08:57:26 PM
Letter submitted.  Bunch of BS.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hunter399 on November 20, 2021, 09:06:01 PM
Would someone please list all of the rules they broke with procedure?
What rules were broken?
That's what I'm asking. Were they required to hear from the GMAC before voting on this? I don't understand this vote at all.
The GMAC is simply an advisory commission. The Commission can essentially do what they want, no matter what advisory commissions or agency staff recommend.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk



Hey Bigtex... What do you feel the likelihood of getting legislation passed that would make all wildlife regulations based on the science and biologist recommendations?  I have read that other states are working on this but haven't heard of it here.
The term science has new meanings now. "The science" is now what our government says it is.

Totally agree with science is what they say it is.

Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 21, 2021, 07:14:54 AM
Jesus. We gave it to em. They didnít even go for making it illegal to kill sows w/cubs as in Idaho. Just a straight ban on hunting. And they got it.
I will be contacting everyone I can on this oneÖit breaks my heart for what it represents.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: callturner on November 21, 2021, 07:28:21 AM
I hate to say this but everyone is crying about this now and they should have been working at it long before now. About 30 years ago I lost my hound hunting and the use of steel traps because people thought it would never pass. Then eastern Wa never had a spring bear and after the closure the only folks that could run dogs were a selected few. Now it will go back to that to take care of the dept's problems.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: GASoline71 on November 21, 2021, 07:52:00 AM
Good. I donít want people bashing her based on the way she gave her answer.

If you look elsewhere in the video. she tears in to the commission pretty good and tells them they should be ashamed of letting their feelings and opinions override the science.  I'm sure she is about as fed up as we are.  The way Baker asked her the question about spring bear hunts being a "social" hunt makes me wanna puke.  Baker knew damn good and well what the answer was, and her smugness when Stephanie had to answer it was a huge slap in the face. 

Gary
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 21, 2021, 07:58:34 AM
I emailed my senator Shelly Short a nice long email laying it all out, complete with video and whatnot.

See what she has to say. I'll post it up when I get a reply.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: boneaddict on November 21, 2021, 08:45:16 AM
Maybe the gall bladder trade will pick back up. 
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Special T on November 21, 2021, 09:46:58 AM
The senators that really need an email are those that sit on the Natural Resources committee. They are the ones that confirm appointments. Letters whennyhey are session are most effective. Perhaps highlighting the fact that unconfirmed WDFw comissioners aare the propblem and the Nat Resource folks should call a vote.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 21, 2021, 10:16:55 AM
Copy that, I'll add them to it
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Special T on November 21, 2021, 10:22:16 AM
Unfortunately the chair is Kevin Van Dewege and his has beenna HSUS Senator of the year many times.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 21, 2021, 10:39:02 AM
I think we're just screwed to be perfectly honest, and have been for many years.

I only bought WA tags to hunt predators, but as our ungulate species declines in the backwoods that's getting harder, you have to hunt the fringes of ranches and private property that still hold deer.  I can walk through my hayfields of alfalfa and another of orchard grass and not see one track in the snow. 

I can toss out a premium compressed bale of alfalfa, throw a 50lb bag of corn on top of that, and then pour a half gallon of deer cane and only see turkey hitting it.  The record deer count was 100 deer in the late 90's

Now I got none, I can't even put a kid in a blind to get a first deer. Thanks WDFW and Inslee.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: dreamingbig on November 21, 2021, 06:08:16 PM
I am in the camp that 5000 testimonies from hunters wouldnít have mattered.  They are hell bent to end hunting in this state.  The ignore science and vote with emotion.  They donít think they have a predator problem unless the problem is we do not yet have enough!  Hunting is spiraling down the drain in this state.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: trophyhunt on November 21, 2021, 06:16:03 PM
Maybe there is a good end to all this, when the Wdfw ends hunting for us, we just hunt like the natives do!  What you think?
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: jackelope on November 21, 2021, 06:41:50 PM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-commissioner-explains-no-vote-on-2022-spring-bear-hunt/?fbclid=IwAR0u0Le2vIfnvpicVkHZmx0-a0XfDS24uzopZPhnlb_MkNxl8keoVxHxqwM
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: jackelope on November 21, 2021, 06:42:19 PM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-commissioner-explains-no-vote-on-2022-spring-bear-hunt/?fbclid=IwAR0u0Le2vIfnvpicVkHZmx0-a0XfDS24uzopZPhnlb_MkNxl8keoVxHxqwM
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: highcountry_hunter on November 21, 2021, 06:50:34 PM
Good. I donít want people bashing her based on the way she gave her answer.

If you look elsewhere in the video. she tears in to the commission pretty good and tells them they should be ashamed of letting their feelings and opinions override the science.  I'm sure she is about as fed up as we are.  The way Baker asked her the question about spring bear hunts being a "social" hunt makes me wanna puke.  Baker knew damn good and well what the answer was, and her smugness when Stephanie had to answer it was a huge slap in the face. 

Do you remember roughly where at in the video she tears into the commission?

Gary
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 21, 2021, 07:11:17 PM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-commissioner-explains-no-vote-on-2022-spring-bear-hunt/?fbclid=IwAR0u0Le2vIfnvpicVkHZmx0-a0XfDS24uzopZPhnlb_MkNxl8keoVxHxqwM

"just give it time"  as he's on his way out and has overstayed his term.

How's he going to fix it if he's on borrowed time? 


He sold us down the river


Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Clark33 on November 21, 2021, 07:26:09 PM
"TRUST THE SCIENCE" party openly votes against....science.  Weird
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: KFhunter on November 21, 2021, 07:30:56 PM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-commissioner-explains-no-vote-on-2022-spring-bear-hunt/?fbclid=IwAR0u0Le2vIfnvpicVkHZmx0-a0XfDS24uzopZPhnlb_MkNxl8keoVxHxqwM

summary - he's on his way out and took the path of least resistance, he's past his term and serving at the sole discretion of Inslee and could be booted at any moment

but give him time and he'll sort this all out for the future   :rolleyes:     
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: blackdog on November 21, 2021, 07:48:19 PM
Larry the Liar was always going to screw us.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: saylean on November 21, 2021, 09:40:28 PM
If anyone would like to express their discontent with the spring bear cancelling the wdfw number is:

360-902-2200

And the directors email is:
Kelly.Susewind@dfw.wa.gov

Keep it respectful and express your concerns. There is more going on here than meets the eye but we need to apply pressure.
I think it would be great if we caused some noise on Monday morning about this topic.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Tbar on November 21, 2021, 10:09:34 PM
If anyone would like to express their discontent with the spring bear cancelling the wdfw number is:

360-902-2200

And the directors email is:
Kelly.Susewind@dfw.wa.gov

Keep it respectful and express your concerns. There is more going on here than meets the eye but we need to apply pressure.
I think it would be great if we caused some noise on Monday morning about this topic.
Are you saying apply pressure to the director?
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: steeliedrew on November 22, 2021, 05:12:07 AM
What happens to all our points? Hereís an idea. Letís boycott buying tags. If the WDFW canít work for us letís stop giving them our money. Truth be told Iím working hard to move out of this state so itís easier for me to say than most.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: blackdog on November 22, 2021, 06:09:18 AM
The director supports spring bear hunting.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: blackdog on November 22, 2021, 06:11:59 AM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hunter399 on November 22, 2021, 06:23:54 AM
I know this is one year "pause" .
I think it will be gone forever .
Just my opinion ,I'm sure you guys don't wanna hear that.
Alot of you guys know how hard it is to bring something back after its gone.
WDFW the department is just worried about lience sales cause spring bear kicks off the year. And most people just buy there big game package,and then put in for spring bear.
I don't believe for a minute that the department cares about hunters or deer and elk population. It's all about the money and getting you locked in early in the year.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Tbar on November 22, 2021, 06:55:27 AM
The director supports spring bear hunting.
:yeah:
@saylean
Not sure applying pressure to your this in alignment is fruitful but if you more then please share.  There is definitely questions to be asked but I felt like the director was very clear in opposition as well as expressing disgust with the way this item played out. 
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Karl Blanchard on November 22, 2021, 06:56:42 AM
If I was a betting man, I'd bet that there will be little to no noticeable dip in permit app sales because of this. Everyone has far too much perceived investment in their points. Nobody is willing to sit out unfortunately.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Tbar on November 22, 2021, 06:59:47 AM
If I was a betting man, I'd bet that there will be little to no noticeable dip in permit app sales because of this. Everyone has far too much perceived investment in their points. Nobody is willing to sit out unfortunately.
I do not think an app will be an option.  They will disable it within the menu.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Karl Blanchard on November 22, 2021, 07:02:13 AM
If I was a betting man, I'd bet that there will be little to no noticeable dip in permit app sales because of this. Everyone has far too much perceived investment in their points. Nobody is willing to sit out unfortunately.
I do not think an app will be an option.  They will disable it within the menu.
you have more faith in their integrity than me sir  :chuckle:

I'm awaiting the email any day now.  "Don't fall behind for 2023, Buy your spring bear bonus point today."
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: trophyhunt on November 22, 2021, 07:06:54 AM
I don't think they give two craps about income, anti's only think about one thing and that's stopping hunting.  Even if it takes all their income away, it's worth it to them.  If given a chance, I'll buy another spring bear point, it will be back as soon as we get a republican in office. 
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Karl Blanchard on November 22, 2021, 07:09:13 AM
I don't think they give two craps about income, anti's only think about one thing and that's stopping hunting.  Even if it takes all their income away, it's worth it to them.  If given a chance, I'll buy another spring bear point, it will be back as soon as we get a republican in office.
ahahahahaha! You said republican in office. I wish you were right but that ship has sailed in this state for good I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Special T on November 22, 2021, 07:11:26 AM
I would direct much of my frustration at Chairman Carpenter. He was the deciding vote, and at one time had his head screwed on straight. 
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Grousehunter19 on November 22, 2021, 07:12:14 AM
I think itís interesting that the WDFW hasnít announced it in their news emails that they send out. I gotten ones about deer and elk season but I have yet to received one saying that the season is canceled this year. Almost like their trying to hide they canceled itÖ
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hunter399 on November 22, 2021, 07:14:14 AM
I don't think they give two craps about income, anti's only think about one thing and that's stopping hunting.  Even if it takes all their income away, it's worth it to them.  If given a chance, I'll buy another spring bear point, it will be back as soon as we get a republican in office.
ahahahahaha! You said republican in office. I wish you were right but that ship has sailed in this state for good I'm afraid.
Yup ,I'm sure that's gonna happen.
Even if we could get a Republican in the governor office.
Isn't that still two year away.
Anyway ,they got you locked in and there not even doing a drawing.
But don't blame ya I guess.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hunter399 on November 22, 2021, 07:15:57 AM
If we are just ghost point this year,do I even need to buy a bear tag to apply.
That's my next question.
I would sure hope not.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hunter399 on November 22, 2021, 07:22:32 AM
I think itís interesting that the WDFW hasnít announced it in their news emails that they send out. I gotten ones about deer and elk season but I have yet to received one saying that the season is canceled this year. Almost like their trying to hide they canceled itÖ
They don't want all that hate mail Durring the holidays.
C'mon man.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Karl Blanchard on November 22, 2021, 07:37:30 AM
I'm torn. I will not buy a point if its an option, but I also don't want to buy any bear tags either. With that said I also feel I need to go kill as many bears as my family can just to thumb my nose at them.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Tbar on November 22, 2021, 07:44:52 AM
I'm torn. I will not buy a point if its an option, but I also don't want to buy any bear tags either. With that said I also feel I need to go kill as many bears as my family can just to thumb my nose at them.
Please do! The bear population is robust to say the least.  Your region has the lowest density but can sustain an open season.  The reason for this closure is purely emotional.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 22, 2021, 07:49:07 AM
I'm working on emails. Support to WDFW staff and not so support for the commission.
This citizen science must stop...it happens more than we think.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Karl Blanchard on November 22, 2021, 07:50:37 AM
I'm torn. I will not buy a point if its an option, but I also don't want to buy any bear tags either. With that said I also feel I need to go kill as many bears as my family can just to thumb my nose at them.
Please do! The bear population is robust to say the least.  Your region has the lowest density but can sustain an open season.  The reason for this closure is purely emotional.
I'd definitely be heading up to the north east corner. Its comical how many bears there are up there. Yakima county not so much.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hunter399 on November 22, 2021, 08:17:50 AM
I'm torn. I will not buy a point if its an option, but I also don't want to buy any bear tags either. With that said I also feel I need to go kill as many bears as my family can just to thumb my nose at them.
I'm kinda thinking if I can buy a point without buying my tag ,then I'll buy it.
If I have to buy all my stuff ,like I normally do. Just to buy a ghost point,then I'm just not sure yet.
Kinda sucks not knowing for sure what is going on,I mean are we buying points to a permit season that might be taken away forever.
So it just sucks.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 22, 2021, 08:32:33 AM
Why is it comical?
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 22, 2021, 08:43:46 AM
Why is it comical?
He's saying there's a lot of em.

...focus on the task at hand
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 22, 2021, 08:45:55 AM
Commission contacted. Respectfully and differently for all parties.

I am not sure how much difference it would make now to contact the senate ag committee members (http://www.sci-washington.com/advocacy.html)...and say what?? "Told you so!!" Please advise.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: KFhunter on November 22, 2021, 08:52:11 AM
The radicals own the vote upon threat of litigation. 


It's done.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: dreamingbig on November 22, 2021, 09:04:57 AM
If I was a betting man, I'd bet that there will be little to no noticeable dip in permit app sales because of this. Everyone has far too much perceived investment in their points. Nobody is willing to sit out unfortunately.
I am getting out.  The points donít change our odds enough to move the needle.

I know I am in the minority.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: hunter399 on November 22, 2021, 09:14:31 AM
If I was a betting man, I'd bet that there will be little to no noticeable dip in permit app sales because of this. Everyone has far too much perceived investment in their points. Nobody is willing to sit out unfortunately.
I am getting out.  The points donít change our odds enough to move the needle.

I know I am in the minority.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ya my points are at zero,drew last year,so I'm not sure what I'm going to do.
I guess I'll wait and see if the department comes out with an email with a little more info.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Karl Blanchard on November 22, 2021, 09:38:28 AM
If I was a betting man, I'd bet that there will be little to no noticeable dip in permit app sales because of this. Everyone has far too much perceived investment in their points. Nobody is willing to sit out unfortunately.
I am getting out.  The points donít change our odds enough to move the needle.

I know I am in the minority.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
agreed.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: pickardjw on November 22, 2021, 09:40:24 AM
Here's a link to contact the Commission and my letter if you want to base your's on it.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/contact
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: KFhunter on November 22, 2021, 09:41:56 AM
I'll add a few more species to my non-res tags and totally forgo all WA tags.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: idahohuntr on November 22, 2021, 09:53:32 AM
Here's a link to contact the Commission and my letter if you want to base your's on it.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/contact
Those are excellent comments!  Thanks for sharing.

I really hope we are all inundating their inboxes over this travesty.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Karl Blanchard on November 22, 2021, 09:59:58 AM
Here's a link to contact the Commission and my letter if you want to base your's on it.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/contact
Those are excellent comments!  Thanks for sharing.

I really hope we are all inundating their inboxes over this travesty.
  :yeah: great comments there pickard
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 22, 2021, 10:05:07 AM
 :yeah: Most excellent
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: buglebrush on November 22, 2021, 10:07:09 AM
WDFW is hopeless.  I hunted almost exclusively out of state this year, and am not looking back.  Washington's head is so far in the sand it's unbelievable. 
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Mtnwalker on November 22, 2021, 10:08:50 AM
I would direct much of my frustration at Chairman Carpenter. He was the deciding vote, and at one time had his head screwed on straight.

 :yeah: I would also recommend phone calls in addition to emails, I'm sure a vast majority of these emails get deleted without ever being read once they see what it's about
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: buglebrush on November 22, 2021, 10:11:30 AM
I am in the camp that 5000 testimonies from hunters wouldnít have mattered.  They are hell bent to end hunting in this state.  The ignore science and vote with emotion.  They donít think they have a predator problem unless the problem is we do not yet have enough!  Hunting is spiraling down the drain in this state.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 :yeah:
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: steeliedrew on November 22, 2021, 10:18:03 AM
Iím all for a nuanced perspective on things but when we have a commission thatís not 100% on board with hunting as whole, and will bend the knee to groups like the humane society we have a serious problem.  This is along the same lines of why we canít hunt bear and cougar with hounds. Emotion based game management as a conservation model is laughable at best. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 22, 2021, 11:07:46 AM
Iím all for a nuanced perspective on things but when we have a commission thatís not 100% on board with hunting as whole, and will bend the knee to groups like the humane society we have a serious problem.  This is along the same lines of why we canít hunt bear and cougar with hounds. Emotion based game management as a conservation model is laughable at best. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually, the hound and bait prohibition happened because of a vote of the people. Being that this wasn't a vote and a decision of the F&W commission, hunting should've been protected, even enhanced. This is what happens when a governor like Inslee, who's power-hungry and Marxist, takes control.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Odell on November 22, 2021, 11:13:54 AM
I think we're just screwed to be perfectly honest, and have been for many years.

I only bought WA tags to hunt predators, but as our ungulate species declines in the backwoods that's getting harder, you have to hunt the fringes of ranches and private property that still hold deer.  I can walk through my hayfields of alfalfa and another of orchard grass and not see one track in the snow. 

I can toss out a premium compressed bale of alfalfa, throw a 50lb bag of corn on top of that, and then pour a half gallon of deer cane and only see turkey hitting it.  The record deer count was 100 deer in the late 90's

Now I got none, I can't even put a kid in a blind to get a first deer. Thanks WDFW and Inslee.

I agree 100%. It is over and nothing will change the inevitable outcome. Fishing and hunting in the west is doomed.
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: idahohuntr on November 22, 2021, 11:29:17 AM
I got a canned reply from Lorna Smith... :puke:

My reasons for voting against the spring bear hunt were:

(1) The Department failed to incorporate their own science into their recommendations. The published science I refer to is the result of many years of fieldwork which  has been published and peer reviewed in several professional journals. This best available science  on bear densities in GMUs on both sides of the state should be the guiding science on setting black bear seasons, fall AND spring. That research shows us that bear densities are far from uniform across the state and in many cases are far less than the 30 bears per 100 sq kilometers presumed for eastern Washington and the 19 bears presumed for eastern Washington, as is currently the case.

(2) We also know that the state-wide population is much smaller (19-20,000 bears) than the previously believed 30,000 bears that the current hunts are predicated upon.  Science points out that the percent female/percent age of harvested bears approach that we currently use to estimate population and to set seasons is not a reliable indicator of  population health. In fact, the SAME ratios reported currently at end of season could just as easily be indicative of a declining population, according to research. (SEE 2020 Game Status and Trends Report 2020 https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/02217  ) Of particular concern was the 50% increase in black bear  harvest in 2019-20 documented in the report, following several years of devastating wildfires and drought in eastern Washington when habitat loss and resultant impact of a  food shortage may have led to desperate bears finding themselves more exposed in a wider-ranging search for food during fall hunts. The Commission approved the increased bag limit and season length in 2019 which led to the increased harvest, based on little to no current population data.

So while the argument is strong that spring hunting of bears as they emerge from hibernation when they are thin, starving, lethargic and less able to avoid threats violates the hunting ethics of fair chase, in my opinion,  that is simply the underpinning of my vote against a spring bear hunt which was solidly based on the Departmentís own data and failure to use that data in setting seasons and harvests. Why did staff not report what I am reporting to you now, and which is readily available online? Since I have been on the Commission we have not received a briefing on this research and the management implications, and I have had to do my own research, albeit of readily available sources on DFWís own website.  That apparent lack of transparency should be of concern  to hunters and non-hunters alike who share a common dedication to being informed by the ďBest Available ScienceĒ and to having that science made available to a well-informed Commission to factor into often difficult decisions.
Title: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 22, 2021, 11:31:23 AM
My reasons for voting against the spring bear hunt were:

 (1) The Department failed to incorporate their own science into their recommendations. The published science I refer to is the result of many years of fieldwork which  has been published and peer reviewed in several professional journals. This best available science  on bear densities in GMUs on both sides of the state should be the guiding science on setting black bear seasons, fall AND spring. That research shows us that bear densities are far from uniform across the state and in many cases are far less than the 30 bears per 100 sq kilometers presumed for eastern Washington and the 19 bears presumed for eastern Washington, as is currently the case.

 (2) We also know that the state-wide population is much smaller (19-20,000 bears) than the previously believed 30,000 bears that the current hunts are predicated upon.  Science points out that the percent female/percent age of harvested bears approach that we currently use to estimate population and to set seasons is not a reliable indicator of  population health. In fact, the SAME ratios reported currently at end of season could just as easily be indicative of a declining population, according to research. (SEE 2020 Game Status and Trends Report 2020 https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/02217  ) Of particular concern was the 50% increase in black bear  harvest in 2019-20 documented in the report, following several years of devastating wildfires and drought in eastern Washington when habitat loss and resultant impact of a  food shortage may have led to desperate bears finding themselves more exposed in a wider-ranging search for food during fall hunts. The Commission approved the increased bag limit and season length in 2019 which led to the increased harvest, based on little to no current population data.

 So while the argument is strong that spring hunting of bears as they emerge from hibernation when they are thin, starving, lethargic and less able to avoid threats violates the hunting ethics of fair chase, in my opinion,  that is simply the underpinning of my vote against a spring bear hunt which was solidly based on the Departmentís own data and failure to use that data in setting seasons and harvests. Why did staff not report what I am reporting to you now, and which is readily available online? Since I have been on the Commission we have not received a briefing on this research and the management implications, and I have had to do my own research, albeit of readily available sources on DFWís own website.  That apparent lack of transparency should be of concern  to hunters and non-hunters alike who share a common dedication to being informed by the ďBest Available ScienceĒ and to having that science made available to a well-informed Commission to factor into often difficult decisions.

Respectfully,

Lorna Smith
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Lokaybinnity on November 22, 2021, 11:37:08 AM
What about my 5 years worth of points what the going to do with that. I put 5 more points on moose please it's only fair
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: KFhunter on November 22, 2021, 11:43:04 AM
I got a canned reply from Lorna Smith... :puke:

My reasons for voting against the spring bear hunt were:

(1) The Department failed to incorporate their own science into their recommendations. The published science I refer to is the result of many years of fieldwork which  has been published and peer reviewed in several professional journals. This best available science  on bear densities in GMUs on both sides of the state should be the guiding science on setting black bear seasons, fall AND spring. That research shows us that bear densities are far from uniform across the state and in many cases are far less than the 30 bears per 100 sq kilometers presumed for eastern Washington and the 19 bears presumed for eastern Washington, as is currently the case.

(2) We also know that the state-wide population is much smaller (19-20,000 bears) than the previously believed 30,000 bears that the current hunts are predicated upon.  Science points out that the percent female/percent age of harvested bears approach that we currently use to estimate population and to set seasons is not a reliable indicator of  population health. In fact, the SAME ratios reported currently at end of season could just as easily be indicative of a declining population, according to research. (SEE 2020 Game Status and Trends Report 2020 https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/02217  ) Of particular concern was the 50% increase in black bear  harvest in 2019-20 documented in the report, following several years of devastating wildfires and drought in eastern Washington when habitat loss and resultant impact of a  food shortage may have led to desperate bears finding themselves more exposed in a wider-ranging search for food during fall hunts. The Commission approved the increased bag limit and season length in 2019 which led to the increased harvest, based on little to no current population data.

So while the argument is strong that spring hunting of bears as they emerge from hibernation when they are thin, starving, lethargic and less able to avoid threats violates the hunting ethics of fair chase, in my opinion,  that is simply the underpinning of my vote against a spring bear hunt which was solidly based on the Departmentís own data and failure to use that data in setting seasons and harvests. Why did staff not report what I am reporting to you now, and which is readily available online? Since I have been on the Commission we have not received a briefing on this research and the management implications, and I have had to do my own research, albeit of readily available sources on DFWís own website.  That apparent lack of transparency should be of concern  to hunters and non-hunters alike who share a common dedication to being informed by the ďBest Available ScienceĒ and to having that science made available to a well-informed Commission to factor into often difficult decisions.


Wonder who wrote that for her,  center for biological diversity? 

Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: KFhunter on November 22, 2021, 11:50:21 AM
lotta wrong in that response, clearly an envirowacko blowing smoke up your shirehole. 


Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: skagitsteel on November 22, 2021, 12:00:49 PM
My reasons for voting against the spring bear hunt were:

 (1) The Department failed to incorporate their own science into their recommendations. The published science I refer to is the result of many years of fieldwork which  has been published and peer reviewed in several professional journals. This best available science  on bear densities in GMUs on both sides of the state should be the guiding science on setting black bear seasons, fall AND spring. That research shows us that bear densities are far from uniform across the state and in many cases are far less than the 30 bears per 100 sq kilometers presumed for eastern Washington and the 19 bears presumed for eastern Washington, as is currently the case.

 (2) We also know that the state-wide population is much smaller (19-20,000 bears) than the previously believed 30,000 bears that the current hunts are predicated upon.  Science points out that the percent female/percent age of harvested bears approach that we currently use to estimate population and to set seasons is not a reliable indicator of  population health. In fact, the SAME ratios reported currently at end of season could just as easily be indicative of a declining population, according to research. (SEE 2020 Game Status and Trends Report 2020 https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/02217  ) Of particular concern was the 50% increase in black bear  harvest in 2019-20 documented in the report, following several years of devastating wildfires and drought in eastern Washington when habitat loss and resultant impact of a  food shortage may have led to desperate bears finding themselves more exposed in a wider-ranging search for food during fall hunts. The Commission approved the increased bag limit and season length in 2019 which led to the increased harvest, based on little to no current population data.

 So while the argument is strong that spring hunting of bears as they emerge from hibernation when they are thin, starving, lethargic and less able to avoid threats violates the hunting ethics of fair chase, in my opinion,  that is simply the underpinning of my vote against a spring bear hunt which was solidly based on the Departmentís own data and failure to use that data in setting seasons and harvests. Why did staff not report what I am reporting to you now, and which is readily available online? Since I have been on the Commission we have not received a briefing on this research and the management implications, and I have had to do my own research, albeit of readily available sources on DFWís own website.  That apparent lack of transparency should be of concern  to hunters and non-hunters alike who share a common dedication to being informed by the ďBest Available ScienceĒ and to having that science made available to a well-informed Commission to factor into often difficult decisions.

Respectfully,

Lorna Smith


Maybe we should ask her how many days she spent in the field to verify the info? :bash:  it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the increased harvest was because we have a growing bear population
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: trophyhunt on November 22, 2021, 12:08:51 PM
Well after reading that, I take back my thoughts on spring bear coming back soon, it's not. 
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: pickardjw on November 22, 2021, 12:13:10 PM
So the WDFW biologists collect all that data, look at it wholistically, and present their recommendations to the Commission right? So Lorna, with her degree in Environmental Studies from Evergreen, has decided she knows more than the professional biologists and can interpret their data better than they can...what a joke.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: mburrows on November 22, 2021, 12:13:44 PM
Wow is all I can say. That is an opinion that is way out of touch with reality.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: pickardjw on November 22, 2021, 12:18:35 PM
Posted this in the other thread but it sounds like she thinks she's smarter than the WDFW bios and can interpret their data better than they can. Ya know, with her Environmental Studies degree from Evergreen State of all places. Enviro-whacko confirmed.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: millerwheeler on November 22, 2021, 12:23:26 PM
Spring bear will never come
Back period anyone that thinks other wise should look at the take take take the department has been doing over the years
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: salt n sage90 on November 22, 2021, 12:40:56 PM
Jeez,
Increasing bear numbers and a huge jump in the number of new hunting license holders with the onset of the "pandemic". Pretty easy dots to connect in my opinion.
I knew they would use the pandemic to hit hunters somewhere.
So what do I do with my 5 Spring Bear points? Do they let us allocate those toward other hunts? refund the fees? doubt it.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: KNOPHISH on November 22, 2021, 12:44:28 PM
She wrote all that jibber jabber when all she had to say is my feelings are butt hurt you guys kill bears.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: saylean on November 22, 2021, 12:46:44 PM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-11/fwc_nov_15_response__commissioner_questionsv2.pdf

Some light readingÖthis is the scientific responses to the commission from the wdfw.

The scientific data 100% supports the hunt.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: Mtnwalker on November 22, 2021, 12:55:38 PM
Where is she getting this information from? "We also know that the state-wide population is much smaller (19-20,000 bears) than the previously believed"
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: Platensek-po on November 22, 2021, 12:56:21 PM
My reasons for voting against the spring bear hunt were:

 (1) The Department failed to incorporate their own science into their recommendations. The published science I refer to is the result of many years of fieldwork which  has been published and peer reviewed in several professional journals. This best available science  on bear densities in GMUs on both sides of the state should be the guiding science on setting black bear seasons, fall AND spring. That research shows us that bear densities are far from uniform across the state and in many cases are far less than the 30 bears per 100 sq kilometers presumed for eastern Washington and the 19 bears presumed for eastern Washington, as is currently the case.

 (2) We also know that the state-wide population is much smaller (19-20,000 bears) than the previously believed 30,000 bears that the current hunts are predicated upon.  Science points out that the percent female/percent age of harvested bears approach that we currently use to estimate population and to set seasons is not a reliable indicator of  population health. In fact, the SAME ratios reported currently at end of season could just as easily be indicative of a declining population, according to research. (SEE 2020 Game Status and Trends Report 2020 https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/02217  ) Of particular concern was the 50% increase in black bear  harvest in 2019-20 documented in the report, following several years of devastating wildfires and drought in eastern Washington when habitat loss and resultant impact of a  food shortage may have led to desperate bears finding themselves more exposed in a wider-ranging search for food during fall hunts. The Commission approved the increased bag limit and season length in 2019 which led to the increased harvest, based on little to no current population data.

 So while the argument is strong that spring hunting of bears as they emerge from hibernation when they are thin, starving, lethargic and less able to avoid threats violates the hunting ethics of fair chase, in my opinion,  that is simply the underpinning of my vote against a spring bear hunt which was solidly based on the Departmentís own data and failure to use that data in setting seasons and harvests. Why did staff not report what I am reporting to you now, and which is readily available online? Since I have been on the Commission we have not received a briefing on this research and the management implications, and I have had to do my own research, albeit of readily available sources on DFWís own website.  That apparent lack of transparency should be of concern  to hunters and non-hunters alike who share a common dedication to being informed by the ďBest Available ScienceĒ and to having that science made available to a well-informed Commission to factor into often difficult decisions.

Respectfully,

Lorna Smith

Wow. I suggest everyone read that report. They really got it done well. Now will we not only have spring seasons canceled but they are hamstringing the efforts to gain more info on the black bear population. Love how she quotes an increase in harvest but fails to mention a decline in harvest of females by percentage. Not to mention spring harvest is only about 15% of the total harvest. Something like 150 animals. So even if the population is what she says it is our harvest numbers are still well within guidelines. Basically she is full of it
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: Bob33 on November 22, 2021, 12:59:07 PM
Lorna Smith is their Executive Director. That should provide insight into her perspective.

http://westernwildlife.org/
Title: Re: Contact the Commission - Spring Bear
Post by: Special T on November 22, 2021, 01:19:58 PM
Baker and Koontz are just as anti hunting as Lorna... they are just a lot smarter than she is. She is just the distraction so others can keep trimming down hunting opportunities.

Even if you wentnnwith 20k bears it would still jeep us in the top 5 states for most numbers of bears.

Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: timberfaller on November 22, 2021, 01:20:56 PM
Didn't expect a different result!  Look no further then this last 2 years and the China Flu!  Same mentality, YOU WILL find it in ALL government agency's large or small and in most medical controlling boards!

They throw the word "science" into their dribble, making it sound like they follow it!!   When in real world "Reality" it never comes into their small, closed minds!

The Department of Game, told us all decades ago THEY weren't going to manage based on science!  See: Doe hunts Hint: were only going to last three years!  It only been going down hill since!
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: Special T on November 22, 2021, 01:26:58 PM
Where is she getting this information from? "We also know that the state-wide population is much smaller (19-20,000 bears) than the previously believed"

Even if true we would still be in the top 5 states with the most black bears
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: Timberstalker on November 22, 2021, 01:29:09 PM
Lorna Smith is their Executive Director. That should provide insight into her perspective.

http://westernwildlife.org/

This link doesn't work Bob, FYI.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: KFhunter on November 22, 2021, 01:30:14 PM
They're blowing smoke up your arses and calling it science.

Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on November 22, 2021, 01:46:06 PM
Lorna Smith is their Executive Director. That should provide insight into her perspective.

http://westernwildlife.org/

Nice website, hasn't been updated in a few years, clearly spending all their time and money stopping bear hunts.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on November 22, 2021, 01:48:43 PM
Lorna Smith is their Executive Director. That should provide insight into her perspective.

http://westernwildlife.org/

Nice website, hasn't been updated in a few years, clearly spending all their time and money stopping bear hunts.

Her website even says 25,000 bears in WA, not the 19,000-20,000 she suggests as part of the reason for voting against Bear hunting.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 22, 2021, 01:49:47 PM
Run your mouths or contact some people...let's see what we can do or find out.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: pickardjw on November 22, 2021, 01:52:36 PM
Contact the Commission link - https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/contact
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: saylean on November 22, 2021, 02:29:54 PM
Make noise people. Contact, email, call, post on Instagram tagging @thewdfw etc
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: Twispriver on November 22, 2021, 03:13:46 PM
I sit on a board and if I don't see the information that I want to see in front of me to support or reject a proposal my default is not to vote no. I will suggest to my fellow board members that we table the proposal or motion and direct staff to produce the information that I want to see before further consideration. It seems like that might have been a reasonable option for this commissioner if she's really all about the science backing the decision.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: trophyhunt on November 22, 2021, 03:42:46 PM
Contact the Commission link - https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/contact
sent message!  Wasnít rude but Iím sure Iíll never draw another special permit for anything, not that I was either way.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: KFhunter on November 22, 2021, 03:48:44 PM
I sit on a board and if I don't see the information that I want to see in front of me to support or reject a proposal my default is not to vote no. I will suggest to my fellow board members that we table the proposal or motion and direct staff to produce the information that I want to see before further consideration. It seems like that might have been a reasonable option for this commissioner if she's really all about the science backing the decision.

They threw WDFW bio information out, all the hard work and best science their funding would allow

For once WDFW was not the enemy here and I find myself defending them. 

The council made up BS excuses and reasons, asked for unrealistic studies using unproven means and worse made false correlations in the data.   

Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: saylean on November 22, 2021, 04:22:37 PM
Her statement of,  ď  So while the argument is strong that spring hunting of bears as they emerge from hibernation when they are thin, starving, lethargic and less able to avoid threats violates the hunting ethics of fair chase, in my opinion,  that is simply the underpinning of my vote against a spring bear huntÖĒ proves a preconditional bias against bear hunting. Since the ethics of the hunt were not in question, and her vote was based to some degree upon this, her vote should be immediately discounted and she should be then removed from the committee.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: KFhunter on November 22, 2021, 04:25:13 PM
Inslee is root of all these problems, he would appoint someone else just like her.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 22, 2021, 04:25:34 PM
Lorna Smith is their Executive Director. That should provide insight into her perspective.

http://westernwildlife.org/

This link doesn't work Bob, FYI.

Worked for me. And here is an interesting quote from their website considering Smith's vote and her reasoning.......   " Today, in Washington it is still extremely rare to encounter a grizzly bear, but black bear populations are stable and healthy." 

So their organization believes the black bear population is "Stable and Healthy" under current management, but she's voting against opportunity because she basically doesn't believe any of the data given to her.  I call BS and I believe there is no information that could be presented to her that would cause her to change her vote.  She is an anti hunt plant, period.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: hughjorgan on November 22, 2021, 04:27:13 PM
Inslee is root of all these problems, he would appoint someone else just like her.

It will probably be the idiot carpenter that he replaces next
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: dwils233 on November 22, 2021, 04:45:27 PM

For once WDFW was not the enemy here and I find myself defending them. 


This can't be overstated. Call out the agency when it's in the wrong, but on this they were in the right and backed it up with evidence. Pressure only needs to be applied to the commission. If anything we should be grateful to the department and Susewind for putting up the fight they did
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: idahohuntr on November 22, 2021, 05:55:13 PM

For once WDFW was not the enemy here and I find myself defending them. 


This can't be overstated. Call out the agency when it's in the wrong, but on this they were in the right and backed it up with evidence. Pressure only needs to be applied to the commission. If anything we should be grateful to the department and Susewind for putting up the fight they did
:yeah:

Probably best to email the Governor and key legislators noting how poorly Lorna treated state staff and that she is unfit to serve.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: trophyhunt on November 22, 2021, 06:27:06 PM
Agree, the lady who I talked to today was pissed at some of those commisioners, she said we need to send emails that will become public record. She also thinks with lots of backlash we could get spring bear next year.  I asked about points and she said they have been getting a lot of questions on those but donít know what they are going to do yet. At least we have half of Wdfw on our side on this one, after talking w her, I have hope for next year.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: johnaferrera on November 22, 2021, 07:09:53 PM
Everyone needs to contact the commission and complain about the lack of using science based wildlife management over certain commissioners social agendas.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: saylean on November 22, 2021, 07:55:26 PM
I have requested all emails from the wdfw to the commission and GMAC as well as all text messages and any and all online comments for or against the spring bear hunt, via the freedom of information act.
Once received I will do a file dump if possible.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: Griiz on November 22, 2021, 08:17:52 PM
I have requested all emails from the wdfw to the commission and GMAC as well as all text messages and any and all online comments for or against the spring bear hunt, via the freedom of information act.
Once received I will do a file dump if possible.

Thank You
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: highcountry_hunter on November 22, 2021, 08:25:47 PM
One thing that hasnít been mentioned about this whole tie vote debacle, there is supposed to be 9 commission members. The 9th member, who is supposed to be a representative of eastern Washington, has yet to be elected or appointed. And as said before, a handful of the current commission members have yet to be sworn in. In my opinion they shouldnít be able to make major changes until the board has been filled and all sworn in.
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 22, 2021, 09:01:01 PM
I have requested all emails from the wdfw to the commission and GMAC as well as all text messages and any and all online comments for or against the spring bear hunt, via the freedom of information act.
Once received I will do a file dump if possible.
Thatís my boy!!
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Special T on November 22, 2021, 09:12:15 PM
One thing that hasnít been mentioned about this whole tie vote debacle, there is supposed to be 9 commission members. The 9th member, who is supposed to be a representative of eastern Washington, has yet to be elected or appointed. And as said before, a handful of the current commission members have yet to be sworn in. In my opinion they shouldnít be able to make major changes until the board has been filled and all sworn in.

2 rcw are in violation. Perhaps more.  Not only are locations important  but stake holders. KOONTZ replaced the comerical fishermans reb Bob Kehoe. Now you maybor not care for the com fishery group but Kehoe was a strong supporter of hunters.  Carpenter is over his term length, and it seems ran for Mount Vernon City Council. Since he lost it matters not but if he won would be in elligable for the comission. We have a vacant seat. Smith and Koontz are not confirmed by the state senate. And yet get to make decisions as if they were. Why did the natural resources committee  in the senate not hold confermation votes? Kevin  VAN deWeg  is a HSUS senator of the year many times over and chairmen of the committee.  Its not like Inslee and Van DeWedge are on different  political pages.... so why would that be?
Title: Re: Response from a "NO" vote, Lorna Smith
Post by: CLARKTAR on November 22, 2021, 09:16:41 PM
I have requested all emails from the wdfw to the commission and GMAC as well as all text messages and any and all online comments for or against the spring bear hunt, via the freedom of information act.
Once received I will do a file dump if possible.
Thank you!!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 22, 2021, 10:37:59 PM
write a letter to our Attorney General Bob Ferguson.....ya, lotta good that'd do. 


Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: highcountry_hunter on November 23, 2021, 04:18:05 AM
One thing that hasnít been mentioned about this whole tie vote debacle, there is supposed to be 9 commission members. The 9th member, who is supposed to be a representative of eastern Washington, has yet to be elected or appointed. And as said before, a handful of the current commission members have yet to be sworn in. In my opinion they shouldnít be able to make major changes until the board has been filled and all sworn in.

2 rcw are in violation. Perhaps more.  Not only are locations important  but stake holders. KOONTZ replaced the comerical fishermans reb Bob Kehoe. Now you maybor not care for the com fishery group but Kehoe was a strong supporter of hunters.  Carpenter is over his term length, and it seems ran for Mount Vernon City Council. Since he lost it matters not but if he won would be in elligable for the comission. We have a vacant seat. Smith and Koontz are not confirmed by the state senate. And yet get to make decisions as if they were. Why did the natural resources committee  in the senate not hold confermation votes? Kevin  VAN deWeg  is a HSUS senator of the year many times over and chairmen of the committee.  Its not like Inslee and Van DeWedge are on different  political pages.... so why would that be?

So if 2 rcwís are in violation then who do we contact to file a lawsuit that would essentially void their decision? The sierra club? There was an episode of The Meateater Podcast a few years ago where the had a guest from a group that specialized in protecting hunters rights from a legal standpoint but for the life of me I canít remember their name nor which episode it was
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: highcountry_hunter on November 23, 2021, 04:21:35 AM
Maybe it was sportsmanís alliance
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: nwwanderer on November 23, 2021, 05:43:43 AM
If you want to maintain sanity, best not to look at rcw's being violated.  Remember for November and beyond
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Special T on November 23, 2021, 07:19:49 AM
Who do we go to for recourse? AG Ferguson? Im not sure how fruitful that would be. The only recourse paid out is the state senate Natural resources committee... Contacting those senators may help, unfortunatly chairman Kevin Van Dewege  has been the HSUS  senator of the year several times.

I dont think that is very fruitful but it may be a way to convince onenof the Dems on it to act.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 23, 2021, 07:57:41 AM
I contacted Natural resources committee last time to voice my opinion to the appointed commission members last time and it pretty much did no good. It just seems we are stuck with the outcome unless there's another avenue.  Then theres this: Septemberís commission unveiling of a new draft conservation policy and environmental groups pushing Governor Inslee to name more ďreform-minded membersĒ:  :bash:
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Karl Blanchard on November 23, 2021, 08:24:27 AM
We've got entirely too many threads going on this topic. May be wise to consolidate the important info and data into one thread :dunno:
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: KFhunter on November 23, 2021, 08:29:22 AM
Done.


This thread should show a nice progression from submitting your opinion online to the comission, to final cancellation and all the pertinent information in between.   

All the subject titles of the merged threads are intact. 


Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: pickardjw on November 23, 2021, 08:51:08 AM
What two RCW's are in violation? Would be helpful to be able to refer to them specifically in any communications we're sending.
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: idahohuntr on November 23, 2021, 09:10:54 AM
I contacted Natural resources committee last time to voice my opinion to the appointed commission members last time and it pretty much did no good. It just seems we are stuck with the outcome unless there's another avenue.  Then theres this: Septemberís commission unveiling of a new draft conservation policy and environmental groups pushing Governor Inslee to name more ďreform-minded membersĒ:  :bash:
I don't know the ins/outs of commission appointments, but one avenue may be to make some noise about Commissioner Lorna Smith to the Governors policy advisors:

JT Austin
Senior Policy Advisor, Natural Resources
360-902-0638
jt.austin@gov.wa.gov

Outdoor Recreation and Economic Development
Jon Snyder
Senior Policy Advisor, Outdoor Recreation & Economic Development
360-584-3804
jon.snyder@gov.wa.gov

Letting these folks know that Ms. Smith is openly attacking the integrity of staff for an entire agency (WDFW) and pushing emotional arguments in favor of special interest groups at the expense of rural communities, outdoor recreation and economic development might be helpful.  I would hope if advisors to the Governor start hearing from many of us, even if they don't get rid of Lorna, it might help keep a balance on future commission appointments.  If you do email or call these folks...don't go into any political rants or jabs at the Governor...it will completely undermine your efforts.  Stay respectful and focused on why Ms. Smith is unfit for the Commission and bad for Washington's wildlife and outdoor recreation economy.   
Title: Re: WDFW Commission Meeting Regarding Spring Bear Seasons This Morning
Post by: Special T on November 23, 2021, 09:31:13 AM
One thing that hasnít been mentioned about this whole tie vote debacle, there is supposed to be 9 commission members. The 9th member, who is supposed to be a representative of eastern Washington, has yet to be elected or appointed. And as said before, a handful of the current commission members have yet to be sworn in. In my opinion they shouldnít be able to make major changes until the board has been filled and all sworn in.

2 rcw are in violation. Perhaps more.  Not only are locations important  but stake holders. KOONTZ replaced the comerical fishermans reb Bob Kehoe. Now you maybor not care for the com fishery group but Kehoe was a strong supporter of hunters.  Carpenter is over his term length, and it seems ran for Mount Vernon City Council. Since he lost it matters not but if he won would be in elligable for the comission. We have a vacant seat. Smith and Koontz are not confirmed by the state senate. And yet get to make decisions as if they were. Why did the natural resources committee  in the senate not hold confermation votes? Kevin  VAN deWeg  is a HSUS senator of the year many times over and chairmen of the committee.  Its not like Inslee and Van DeWedge are on different  political pages.... so why would that be?

So if 2 rcwís are in violation then who do we contact to file a lawsuit that would essentially void their decision? The sierra club? There was an episode of The Meateater Podcast a few years ago where the had a guest from a group that specialized in protecting hunters rights from a legal standpoint but for the life of me I canít remember their name nor which episode it was

We could file a lawsuit but sportsmen are not giving of time or money  like the Anti groups are. most of the folks that are fighting us have local paid staff to show up and speak at meetings, devise lawsuits and execute them. Sportsmen do not sue and as a result can have hunting shaved many times with no repercussions.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: pickardjw on November 23, 2021, 09:46:35 AM
Looked into my own question. I assume the RCW's in volation are 77.04.030 regarding appointments and 77.04.055 regarding Duties which includes, "The commission shall maximize fishing, hunting, and outdoor recreational opportunities compatible with healthy and diverse fish and wildlife populations."

The WDFW has data that supports the fact that the Spring Bear hunt is compatible with a healthy bear population, so this decision is in violation of that RCW.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on November 23, 2021, 09:56:52 AM
I'd gladly donate to any entity that wants to sue the state. I'm not a lawyer nor understand the process so I'm no help leading the charge but I do have some disposable income :tup:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on November 23, 2021, 09:57:55 AM
CW 77.04.040
CommissionóQualifications of members.
Persons eligible for appointment as members of the commission shall have general knowledge of the habits and distribution of fish and wildlife and shall not hold another state, county, or municipal elective or appointive office. In making these appointments, the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists. Persons eligible for appointment as fish and wildlife commissioners shall comply with the provisions of chapters 42.52 and * 42.17 RCW.

Robert Kehoe  the commercial fishing rep was replaced by Fred Koontz  Commercial at large
Lorna Smith replaced Brad Smith
David Greybill position open "the fishing magician"

So how do we end up with 3 east of the mountains, 3 west and 3 at large? while keeping  all the stake holders represented.
Mc Issace lives near Vancouver so he is west side
Thorburn is Spokane
Linville is eastern wa
Anderson is at large

How are you going to get an eastern washington commercial fisherman? if you look at the positions they are labeled east or west.




RCW 77.04.030
CommissionóAppointment.
The fish and wildlife commission consists of nine registered voters of the state. In January of each odd-numbered year, the governor shall appoint with the advice and consent of the senate three registered voters to the commission to serve for terms of six years from that January or until their successors are appointed and qualified. If a vacancy occurs on the commission prior to the expiration of a term, the governor shall appoint a registered voter within sixty days to complete the term. Three members shall be residents of that portion of the state lying east of the summit of the Cascade mountains, and three shall be residents of that portion of the state lying west of the summit of the Cascade mountains. Three additional members shall be appointed at large. No two members may be residents of the same county. The legal office of the commission is at the administrative office of the department in Olympia.

Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on November 23, 2021, 09:59:43 AM
RCW 77.04.055
CommissionóDuties.
(1) In establishing policies to preserve, protect, and perpetuate wildlife, fish, and wildlife and fish habitat, the commission shall meet annually with the governor to:
(a) Review and prescribe basic goals and objectives related to those policies; and
(b) Review the performance of the department in implementing fish and wildlife policies.
The commission shall maximize fishing, hunting, and outdoor recreational opportunities compatible with healthy and diverse fish and wildlife populations.
(2) The commission shall establish hunting, trapping, and fishing seasons and prescribe the time, place, manner, and methods that may be used to harvest or enjoy game fish and wildlife.
(3) The commission shall establish provisions regulating food fish and shellfish as provided in RCW 77.12.047.
(4) The commission shall have final approval authority for tribal, interstate, international, and any other department agreements relating to fish and wildlife.
(5) The commission shall adopt rules to implement the state's fish and wildlife laws.
(6) The commission shall have final approval authority for the department's budget proposals.
(7) The commission shall select its own staff and shall appoint the director of the department. The director and commission staff shall serve at the pleasure of the commission.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on November 23, 2021, 10:13:09 AM
Perhaps some variation of this theme is the right thing to write to your senator
Agriculture, Water, Natural Resources & Parks (7)    Van De Wege, Chair (D); Salomon, Vice Chair (D); Warnick (R); Honeyford(R); Rolfes(D); Short(R); Stanford (D)

Please email your STATE SENATOR and tell him/her that the Governor's appointees are in violation of RCW 77.04.040, especially Fred Koontz because he replaced Bob Kehoe, who was the commercial fisherman's representation on the Commission and now they have none. Tell your state senator the only remaining open position is in Eastern Washington, and the commercial fishing industry has been left out in the cold. This also violated the legislative mandate per RCW 77.04.012 where "the department shall seek to maintain the economic well-being and stability of the fishing industry in the state." How can this be done with no commercial fishing representation on the Commission to give oversight to the Department? This needs to be done ASAP.

https://app.leg.wa.gov/DistrictFinder/
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: whacker1 on November 23, 2021, 10:25:16 AM
Outdoor Recreation and Economic Development
Jon Snyder
Senior Policy Advisor, Outdoor Recreation & Economic Development
360-584-3804
jon.snyder@gov.wa.gov

Jon Snyder referenced above is a liberal from Spokane that was appointed out of Spokane City Council a number of years ago.  Maybe early insless or late gregoire governorship.   Jon ran an outdoor magazine that he sold.   he is a hiking/biking/birding guy.   i don't know his position on hunting and fishing, but he will not buck the liberal enviro group.   Those are his same supporters in his prior campaigns.  Just an FYI.   

he definitely needs to be included in correspondence, but wanted you all to know that I would not anticipate him to be an Ally of our endeavor.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dwils233 on November 23, 2021, 10:59:06 AM
Outdoor Recreation and Economic Development
Jon Snyder
Senior Policy Advisor, Outdoor Recreation & Economic Development
360-584-3804
jon.snyder@gov.wa.gov

Jon Snyder referenced above is a liberal from Spokane that was appointed out of Spokane City Council a number of years ago.  Maybe early insless or late gregoire governorship.   Jon ran an outdoor magazine that he sold.   he is a hiking/biking/birding guy.   i don't know his position on hunting and fishing, but he will not buck the liberal enviro group.   Those are his same supporters in his prior campaigns.  Just an FYI.   

he definitely needs to be included in correspondence, but wanted you all to know that I would not anticipate him to be an Ally of our endeavor.

I knew I recognized that time, at least since the sale of that magazine they've been hunting neutral and/or written some prohuntng articles.

Even if he's liberal, I'd be shocked if he's anti-hunting. Could be a good olive branch to not be confrontational but educational in outreach. Especially for spokanites and eastsiders
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: whacker1 on November 23, 2021, 11:04:01 AM
Outdoor Recreation and Economic Development
Jon Snyder
Senior Policy Advisor, Outdoor Recreation & Economic Development
360-584-3804
jon.snyder@gov.wa.gov

Jon Snyder referenced above is a liberal from Spokane that was appointed out of Spokane City Council a number of years ago.  Maybe early insless or late gregoire governorship.   Jon ran an outdoor magazine that he sold.   he is a hiking/biking/birding guy.   i don't know his position on hunting and fishing, but he will not buck the liberal enviro group.   Those are his same supporters in his prior campaigns.  Just an FYI.   

he definitely needs to be included in correspondence, but wanted you all to know that I would not anticipate him to be an Ally of our endeavor.

I knew I recognized that time, at least since the sale of that magazine they've been hunting neutral and/or written some prohuntng articles.

Even if he's liberal, I'd be shocked if he's anti-hunting. Could be a good olive branch to not be confrontational but educational in outreach. Especially for spokanites and eastsiders

i welcome anyone who would like to extend an olive branch to Jon.   I simply meant that he isn't going to drift too far from the lockstep administration of Inslee and the commissioners in question.   i do not know if he is anti-hunting.   i wouldn't be surprised one way or the other.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: pickardjw on November 23, 2021, 02:04:33 PM
In terms of getting the word out to the broader hunting community, they're going to cover it on the Meateater podcast in two weeks. Hopefully that helps make our voices louder.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: saylean on November 23, 2021, 02:56:23 PM
If you think of this is going to stop with bear, youíre sadly mistaken. Every member on here should be posting on social media, emailing and calling with their disgust.

Continue the fight. Make noise. Be heard.

Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: highcountry_hunter on November 23, 2021, 07:10:27 PM
If you think of this is going to stop with bear, youíre sadly mistaken. Every member on here should be posting on social media, emailing and calling with their disgust.

Continue the fight. Make noise. Be heard.

Exactly. This is how the antis slowly win, death by 1000 cuts. Look at California, they slowly chipped away at the lion hunting methods and seasons until hunting a lion became illegal.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Nwgunner on November 23, 2021, 07:14:48 PM
Emailed em all.  Respectfully of course.  I even threw in Maria and Patty because hey, why not?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Nwgunner on November 23, 2021, 07:22:20 PM
In respect to the GMAC, I can tell you that the committee had no opportunity to meet, debate, and provide a recommendation to the commission on this issue.  WDFW never included GMAC on any decision making nor did they ask for input until 1 week before the commission was to vote, all email only. 
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: CJ1962 on November 24, 2021, 08:02:03 AM
My note to the Commission, maybe not as respectful as I could be, but I was pissed.

   The No vote on the 2022 Spring bear season by Larry Carpenter, Barbara Baker, Lorna Smith and Fred Koontz is extremely disappointing but not surprising being the anti hunters that they are, The liberal left is always saying follow the science, except when they don't like the science and that is exactly what you 4 did. The Anti hunters said Sows with cubs were being killed, The Science presented by the biologist said they are not. You didn't like the science or want to believe the science and let your emotions and those emotions by a bunch of antis sway your decision making. You should all resign your positions so that individuals that will actually follow science can be appointed.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: steeleywhopper on November 24, 2021, 08:23:57 AM
edited to retract my last statement.....

It is time to find another group or entity to manage Washington's wildlife, our current so called leader isn't doing a darn thing to make it any better.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: pickardjw on November 24, 2021, 08:36:03 AM
Not the WDFW's fault here. Fish and Wildlife Commission's fault.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: GASoline71 on November 24, 2021, 09:00:20 AM
edited to retract my last statement.....

It is time to find another group or entity to manage Washington's wildlife, our current so called leader isn't doing a darn thing to make it any better.

We need to go back to the Washington Dept of Fish and GAME.  Let non-game species be managed from a different pot of money and commission...

Gary
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: KP-Skagit on November 24, 2021, 09:12:19 AM
Has Lorna Smith been Inslee's only appointee or has he appointed others during his tenure?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hughjorgan on November 24, 2021, 09:38:45 AM
Has Lorna Smith been Inslee's only appointee or has he appointed others during his tenure?

Smith and koontz were just appointed by him
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: mcrawfordaf on November 24, 2021, 12:13:41 PM
For anyone who may be interested Clay Newcomb, one of the MeatEater guys, talked about our spring bear season cancellation in his newest podcast BearGrease released today. Some good comments in there.

ďGuard the gateĒ he says.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: trophyhunt on November 24, 2021, 12:30:15 PM
The more I think about this the more it pisses me off, that lady said it's her opinion that spring bear should be gone, HER OPINON!  How she feels has zero to do with the science, I just keep out a tiny bit of hope that enough squeaky wheels get a spit of grease.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: mcrawfordaf on November 24, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
https://www.change.org/p/jay-inslee-bring-back-spring-bear-hunting-for-washington-states-2022-season

A Change.org petition has been started as well for anyone interested.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: GASoline71 on November 24, 2021, 12:40:03 PM
https://www.change.org/p/jay-inslee-bring-back-spring-bear-hunting-for-washington-states-2022-season

A Change.org petition has been started as well for anyone interested.

That petition says "Spring Bear Season" like its an OTC thing.  It should show that it's a limited draw opportunity now and then add that the spring bear hunts should be an OTC tag.  It also doesn't mention the commission, it just mentions "the people who voted".  Maybe I'm being too picky, but a petition should be more thoroughly thought out and worded to make sure the point sticks.  I signed it, because it's at least up there.

But has any change.org petition ever gain enough traction to do anything?

Gary
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Jake Dogfish on November 24, 2021, 01:03:05 PM
I signed it.  I also donít agree with language.  Fearmongering is not working.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Weatherby92 on November 24, 2021, 01:14:53 PM
I signed it. I don't fully agree with the verbiage used but its better than doing nothing.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: logola512c on November 24, 2021, 01:27:21 PM
So I'm late to this topic, but aren't all (or most) of the spring bear hunts on timber company land?  And aren't timber companies generally allowed to use dogs and bait to get rid of them?  Which means that the same bears will get killed either way, just now not through the recreational permit hunt.  Or is one or more of my premises not accurate?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dreamingbig on November 24, 2021, 10:31:18 PM
So 3 fall bear tags now?!?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: saylean on November 24, 2021, 10:45:02 PM
Smith is appointed but not confirmed currently. We must contact Senator Jesse Salomon at 360.786.7662 and express our desire she not be confirmed. He is vice chair of Natural Resources.

Get active and loud people.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: JeepWrangler on November 25, 2021, 05:25:42 AM
Saylean,

In Response to your comment above I am copy / paste from an email response to questions, in writing, from the WDFW Commission on 11/23

----------- insert -------------------

Commission (DFW) <COMMISSION@dfw.wa.gov>
Tue 11/23/2021 12:32 PM

{my email questions to the Commission using the WDFW Contact the Commission Form on their website)

Subject

Commission Meetings

Message

Hello,

Is WDFW Commissioner Carpenter over his term length?

Have WDFW Commissioners Smith and Koontz been confirmed by the State Senate for their positions?

{written email response from the Commission from the reply email sent back to me from my inquiry below}

Commission (DFW) <COMMISSION@dfw.wa.gov>
Tue 11/23/2021 12:32 PM
Afternoon Brad,

Yes, Chair Carpenter is over his term and the Governor has extended his appointment until time undetermined. No, WDFW Commissioners Smith and Koontz been confirmed by the State Senate for their positions, that I am aware of.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: bearpaw on November 25, 2021, 07:07:39 AM
So I'm late to this topic, but aren't all (or most) of the spring bear hunts on timber company land?  And aren't timber companies generally allowed to use dogs and bait to get rid of them?  Which means that the same bears will get killed either way, just now not through the recreational permit hunt.  Or is one or more of my premises not accurate?

That may have applied in the past somewhat for western WA, but all the tags in Eastern WA were for entire units, that included national forest, blm, state, and any other public or private lands open to hunting.

FYI: The damage hunts have also been greatly reduced if not totally eliminated mostly due to efforts by the same groups. It's obvious they are working to end all predator hunting because it's not as widely supported and when they accomplish that goal they will move to other types of hunting.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: wannabhntr on November 25, 2021, 08:27:12 AM
https://m.facebook.com/groups/875337566494224/?ref=group_browse
Please join and ease take it seriously. We are the verge of loosing all of our hunting opportunities in this state.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: KNOPHISH on November 25, 2021, 08:47:04 AM
Fired off a couple more letters, hopefully theyíll listen to our protest but probably not.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on November 25, 2021, 08:54:01 AM
Well didn't plan on buying my liences until the normal permit process anyway, if there not gonna allow us to buy points in the spring bear hunt .
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: bearpaw on November 25, 2021, 09:49:29 AM
Sign The Online Petition:

4,143 have signed. Letís get to 5,000!
At 5,000 signatures, this petition is more likely to get picked up by local news!

Bring back spring bear hunting for Washington State 2022 season?
https://www.change.org/p/jay-inslee-bring-back-spring-bear-hunting-for-washington-state-2022-season?recruiter=889172852&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=share_petition&recruited_by_id=1862a400-87dd-11e8-81de-531f0192a604
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: saylean on November 25, 2021, 09:56:00 AM
Thanks bear paw, thatís a good show of force.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: bearpaw on November 25, 2021, 10:15:28 AM
Thanks bear paw, thatís a good show of force.

It's someone else who organized it, I was just spreading the word, the more that is said the better!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: actionshooter on November 25, 2021, 07:45:23 PM
Thanks bear paw, thatís a good show of force.

It's someone else who organized it, I was just spreading the word, the more that is said the better!
    I agree that everyone should sign it, but the guy who organized it listed Inslee and the USFWS as the recipients of the results..... wrong place to send it.... this needs to go to the commission and WDFW.   I sent a link but who knows if they even bother to look..
Title: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: jackelope on November 25, 2021, 07:48:05 PM
4968 now.

I signed that petition probably 9pm last night. I was #1734 to sign it. Itís getting attention for sure.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: TheStovePipeKid on November 25, 2021, 09:02:04 PM
Signed. I still can't believe with the data and projected number of harvests the thought even crossed their minds to terminate a draw only spring season. The commission is a collection of fools.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: JeepWrangler on November 26, 2021, 05:08:23 AM
Good morning.

I received written response from WDFW on 11/23/2021 9:33am that during the Spring Bear Hunt comment period and Zoom call they received over 5000 comments. (unfortunately most of those turned out to be against the spring bear hunt and now here we are)

Now this morning I see the "Bring back spring bear hunting for Washington State 2022 season?"  Change.org petition as of 4:53am has 5,170 signatures to bring back Spring Bear Hunting in Washington State.

It took the Commission several months to gather the 5000 comments they used in considering to ban Spring Bear Hunting.

Now we see the Bear Hunting Community is able to gather 5,170 signatures in less than two days (Wed 11/24 - Fri 11/26) to bring back the Spring Bear Hunting Season.

These numbers do not lie.

I've got to ask, where was everybody during the last several months when we could have made 5,170 comments to keep Spring Bear Hunting in Washington State?...

Maybe would could have done more to keep Spring Bear Hunting in Washington.

"Bonagofski, Heather L (DFW) <Heather.Bonagofski@dfw.wa.gov>
Tue 11/23/2021 9:33 AM

Good morning Brad,

... WDFW received over 5000 public comments. Here is the link to public comments and also recorded hearings, etc. https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/development/2022-spring-black-bear-rules-and-regulations"

Thank-you
 

Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: JeepWrangler on November 26, 2021, 05:19:25 AM
Hello,

in support of "action shooter" in this thread above, please see written communication I received from WDFW on 11/23/2021...

I am new to all this posting stuff on public forums so for the sake of not doing something maybe that is not a good idea, I will leave out the name of the employee at WDFW who sent me the email. But the email content I am copy/paste here. (its my question / employee response to my question) the italics in the employee email did not paste into this copy / paste but the 'petition the govenor' response was in italics

"xxx@dfw.wa.gov
Tue 11/23/2021 9:33 AM

Is WDFW Commissioner Carpenter over his term length? Yes. (Also, we do not have 9 members at this time, petition the Governor if you would like to see change)  The Commission establishes policies to preserve, protect, and perpetuate fish, wildlife, and ecosystems while providing sustainable fish and wildlife recreational and commercial opportunities compatible with healthy and diverse fish and wildlife populations. The Commission consists of nine governor-appointed members that serve six-year terms, hold meetings and hearings around the state and offer opportunities for the public to weigh in on fish and wildlife issues."

I take from these comment answers to my questions of that day that change regarding the Commissioners is done through petition to the Govenor.

Thank-you action shooter for your comments above. It helps me learn so I can try to be helpful.

I appreciate this forum.

Thank-you

Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: actionshooter on November 27, 2021, 09:26:43 AM
 Thanks for sharing the info Jeepwrangler!

 The petition is at 5700... we need to keep pushing this
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: saylean on November 27, 2021, 10:41:52 AM
Thanks bear paw, thatís a good show of force.

It's someone else who organized it, I was just spreading the word, the more that is said the better!
    I agree that everyone should sign it, but the guy who organized it listed Inslee and the USFWS as the recipients of the results..... wrong place to send it.... this needs to go to the commission and WDFW.   I sent a link but who knows if they even bother to look..

I will be bringing up the petition/numbers when I speak to the commission (if they call on me) during the upcoming meetings.

Also, elk, wolf, cougar and mew leadership appointees are in the item lists for these upcoming meetings. Sign up to speak and pay attention people.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on November 27, 2021, 11:35:52 AM
What we really need is a PAC, petitioning the ant-hunters is not a high probability event.  We need to create and fund a citizen's initiative, the Spring Bear Protection Act.  The purpose of the act is to protect vulnerable spring bear by directing the Department to only issue limited spring permits across the entire state in every GMU, require pelt inspection on 100% of harvested bears and impose penalties on hunters who violate department rules.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on November 27, 2021, 12:40:27 PM
What we really need is a PAC, petitioning the ant-hunters is not a high probability event.  We need to create and fund a citizen's initiative, the Spring Bear Protection Act.  The purpose of the act is to protect vulnerable spring bear by directing the Department to only issue limited spring permits across the entire state in every GMU, require pelt inspection on 100% of harvested bears and impose penalties on hunters who violate department rules.
I do agree the petition is not gonna do a whole lot.
Just because the anti-hunters could start there own and whoop us like an old dog.
The limited permits ,Ah we already have a limited amount of permit,which are like a drop in the bucket when it comes to bear population.
We already have pelt inspection and reporting already has been done.

We need to push to make illegal to shoot sow with cubs.
YEAR ROUND.
It has been discussed by the commission, and they don't want to do it ,because people might not report there kills.
That tells me that they are more worried about you reporting. So they can throw the reports of female harvest in our faces.
They are not worried about sows with cubs,they just want you to report ,so they can screw us.
I'm telling that's the way it is.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Tbar on November 27, 2021, 12:42:48 PM
Thanks bear paw, thatís a good show of force.

It's someone else who organized it, I was just spreading the word, the more that is said the better!
    I agree that everyone should sign it, but the guy who organized it listed Inslee and the USFWS as the recipients of the results..... wrong place to send it.... this needs to go to the commission and WDFW.   I sent a link but who knows if they even bother to look..

I will be bringing up the petition/numbers when I speak to the commission (if they call on me) during the upcoming meetings.

Also, elk, wolf, cougar and mew leadership appointees are in the item lists for these upcoming meetings. Sign up to speak and pay attention people.
If they call on you? Are you signed up on topic specific or open comment?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on November 27, 2021, 12:46:09 PM
What we really need is a PAC, petitioning the ant-hunters is not a high probability event.  We need to create and fund a citizen's initiative, the Spring Bear Protection Act.  The purpose of the act is to protect vulnerable spring bear by directing the Department to only issue limited spring permits across the entire state in every GMU, require pelt inspection on 100% of harvested bears and impose penalties on hunters who violate department rules.
I do agree the petition is not gonna do a whole lot.
Just because the anti-hunters could start there own and whoop us like an old dog.
The limited permits ,Ah we already have a limited amount of permit,which are like a drop in the bucket when it comes to bear population.
We already have pelt inspection and reporting already has been done.

We need to push to make illegal to shoot sow with cubs.
YEAR ROUND.
It has been discussed by the commission, and they don't want to do it ,because people might not report there kills.
That tells me that they are more worried about you reporting. So they can throw the reports of female harvest in our faces.
They are not worried about sows with cubs,they just want you to report ,so they can screw us.

That's the point.  Citizen's initiatives get voted on largely by emotion and the writer of the initiative gets to tell the story.  Add a provision to it to make it illegal to shoot a sow, penalty is you can't hunt them for two years, only buy points but can't get drawn.  Add penalties for not having the hide sealed.  Whatever you want to add, stack the deck.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on November 27, 2021, 12:58:10 PM
What we really need is a PAC, petitioning the ant-hunters is not a high probability event.  We need to create and fund a citizen's initiative, the Spring Bear Protection Act.  The purpose of the act is to protect vulnerable spring bear by directing the Department to only issue limited spring permits across the entire state in every GMU, require pelt inspection on 100% of harvested bears and impose penalties on hunters who violate department rules.
I do agree the petition is not gonna do a whole lot.
Just because the anti-hunters could start there own and whoop us like an old dog.
The limited permits ,Ah we already have a limited amount of permit,which are like a drop in the bucket when it comes to bear population.
We already have pelt inspection and reporting already has been done.

We need to push to make illegal to shoot sow with cubs.
YEAR ROUND.
It has been discussed by the commission, and they don't want to do it ,because people might not report there kills.
That tells me that they are more worried about you reporting. So they can throw the reports of female harvest in our faces.
They are not worried about sows with cubs,they just want you to report ,so they can screw us.

That's the point.  Citizen's initiatives get voted on largely by emotion and the writer of the initiative gets to tell the story.  Add a provision to it to make it illegal to shoot a sow, penalty is you can't hunt them for two years, only buy points but can't get drawn.  Add penalties for not having the hide sealed.  Whatever you want to add, stack the deck.
Make it illegal to shoot sow with cubs.
A mistake is gonna happen from time to time.
I would rather see it as normal infraction 150 dollar fine.
And someone go ahead and harvest there meat.
If you want a citizen initiative's make it a 2000 dollar fine for going down closed roads Durring fall seasons.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Tbar on November 27, 2021, 01:07:30 PM
Are we trying to manufacture solutions to a hypothetical problem?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: buckfvr on November 27, 2021, 01:13:03 PM
Returning to "status quo" would be far easier to obtain over adding provisions that would have to be approved by wdfw.  Since they were/are ok with status quo, just leave it at that.  Keep it a simple reversal. No confusion, no changes, nothing more to enforce, same~same rules.    :twocents:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Tbar on November 27, 2021, 01:19:58 PM
Returning to "status quo" would be far easier to obtain over adding provisions that would have to be approved by wdfw.  Since they were/are ok with status quo, just leave it at that.  Keep it a simple reversal. No confusion, no changes, nothing more to enforce, same~same rules.    :twocents:
:yeah:
We should be advocating for liberalization of seasons and take statewide. I  have zero problems with the season staying either sex with some outreach and education about sows with cubs.  Sow without, fair game. Even if you shoot a sow with cubs the population is very capable of sustaining.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on November 27, 2021, 01:23:32 PM
Returning to "status quo" would be far easier to obtain over adding provisions that would have to be approved by wdfw.  Since they were/are ok with status quo, just leave it at that.  Keep it a simple reversal. No confusion, no changes, nothing more to enforce, same~same rules.    :twocents:
:yeah:
We should be advocating for liberalization of seasons and take statewide. I  have zero problems with the season staying either sex with some outreach and education about sows with cubs.  Sow without, fair game. Even if you shoot a sow with cubs the population is very capable of sustaining.
:yeah:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on November 27, 2021, 01:47:18 PM
Returning to "status quo" would be far easier to obtain over adding provisions that would have to be approved by wdfw.  Since they were/are ok with status quo, just leave it at that.  Keep it a simple reversal. No confusion, no changes, nothing more to enforce, same~same rules.    :twocents:
:yeah:
We should be advocating for liberalization of seasons and take statewide. I  have zero problems with the season staying either sex with some outreach and education about sows with cubs.  Sow without, fair game. Even if you shoot a sow with cubs the population is very capable of sustaining.
:yeah:
That would be great and all.
But when you listen to the anti-hunters arguments in these past meetings ,that has resulted in a season being in pause mode.
Easier said than done. Maybe I'm wrong ,will just ask for the season back and see how that pans out.
I'm 100% positive it should be just that easy.

Just my opinion
Half of the anti-hunters want to end all hunting
25% anti-hunters don't want sows with cubs hunted at all.
And the other 25% said.
To much fall harvest due to two tags
Sow with cubs
Spring hunt is not fair chase
Big game hunting in the spring should be banned,so animals can have a break from being hunted.
And just overall don't want you to hunt in the spring.

So if you guys have any better ideas ,or brainstorm,to combat these anti-hunters ,please let's hear it before the next commission meeting.



Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Clark33 on November 27, 2021, 05:01:03 PM
What the anti's don't realize is, who's gonna foot the bill for wildlife conservation/management if hunting gets banned?  Disconnected people voicing opinions on policies that they have no skin in the game in. 
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on November 27, 2021, 05:16:30 PM
What the anti's don't realize is, who's gonna foot the bill for wildlife conservation/management if hunting gets banned?  Disconnected people voicing opinions on policies that they have no skin in the game in.

they dont care, and at one time they tried to fold DNR PArks and WDFW together. Likely to weaken the influence of sportsmen
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Tbar on November 27, 2021, 05:37:37 PM
What the anti's don't realize is, who's gonna foot the bill for wildlife conservation/management if hunting gets banned?  Disconnected people voicing opinions on policies that they have no skin in the game in.

they dont care, and at one time they tried to fold DNR PArks and WDFW together. Likely to weaken the influence of sportsmen
:yeah:
I don't think sportsman realize how much the antis would like them and their money out of the equation. Especially in this state! The general fund only needs a signature to fill the gap. 
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on November 27, 2021, 06:58:34 PM
What the anti's don't realize is, who's gonna foot the bill for wildlife conservation/management if hunting gets banned?  Disconnected people voicing opinions on policies that they have no skin in the game in.

they dont care, and at one time they tried to fold DNR PArks and WDFW together. Likely to weaken the influence of sportsmen
:yeah:
I don't think sportsman realize how much the antis would like them and their money out of the equation. Especially in this state! The general fund only needs a signature to fill the gap.

This is one area where I have personally been conflicted and wrong. I have not purchased a license out of anger and spite. The department didn't feel it, AND the department does not connect my Lic sales with Pitman Roberts funds. I think this is both wrong and short sited of them but they do no t see them connected even tho Lic sales numbers and funds are. Even tho I believe they are wrong, it doesn't mater how stupid I think they are only how much my action will effect them. This is why I WANT boycotts to work but realize they only further Anti Hunters agenda. As sportsmen we are going to need to be both specific AND cooperative. 2 things we as a group are not known for.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on November 27, 2021, 07:06:42 PM
What the anti's don't realize is, who's gonna foot the bill for wildlife conservation/management if hunting gets banned?  Disconnected people voicing opinions on policies that they have no skin in the game in.

they dont care, and at one time they tried to fold DNR PArks and WDFW together. Likely to weaken the influence of sportsmen
:yeah:
I don't think sportsman realize how much the antis would like them and their money out of the equation. Especially in this state! The general fund only needs a signature to fill the gap.

True, you can't assume their version of conservation is the same as ours.  It's easy to sue for funding of the ESA species they want worked on and the rest will just be whatever they be.  Nature will take its course, with a few friendly nudges as necessary.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on November 27, 2021, 07:49:20 PM
What the anti's don't realize is, who's gonna foot the bill for wildlife conservation/management if hunting gets banned?  Disconnected people voicing opinions on policies that they have no skin in the game in.

they dont care, and at one time they tried to fold DNR PArks and WDFW together. Likely to weaken the influence of sportsmen
:yeah:
I don't think sportsman realize how much the antis would like them and their money out of the equation. Especially in this state! The general fund only needs a signature to fill the gap.

True, you can't assume their version of conservation is the same as ours.  It's easy to sue for funding of the ESA species they want worked on and the rest will just be whatever they be.  Nature will take its course, with a few friendly nudges as necessary.
Heck no there version of conservation is not the same.
You didn't know the commission is in the process of changing the definition of conservation.
How doomed are we now.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: harveymarv on November 27, 2021, 08:06:02 PM
What we really need is a PAC, petitioning the ant-hunters is not a high probability event.  We need to create and fund a citizen's initiative, the Spring Bear Protection Act.  The purpose of the act is to protect vulnerable spring bear by directing the Department to only issue limited spring permits across the entire state in every GMU, require pelt inspection on 100% of harvested bears and impose penalties on hunters who violate department rules.

Hunters in WA have one PAC via the Hunters Heritage Council (HHC):

http://huntersheritagecouncil.org/hhc-pac.html

All of this was predicted in January when Smith was appointed:

https://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-commission-changes-raise-eyebrows/

Unfortunately I agree with Stein that minorities (like hunters) don't do as well with petitions and proactive steps as majorities (westside liberals). I still signed the petition, but I would guess it won't change anything. However, minorities do have rights protected by laws.

IMHO the action most likely to maybe get this changed by spring would be to get the HHC to enlist the help of some national pro-hunting organizations like the Sportsman's Alliance (https://www.sportsmensalliance.org/contact/) in order to organize an exploration of legal options. Maybe a lawsuit is in order. I would contribute $$, and I'm sure many hunters in WA would as well. Seems Lorna Smith has gone on record with her bias and violated her duty and there should be legal avenue to invalidate this vote and get her tossed off the commission.

I'm sending this thread url to HHC (maybe they've already seen it) to see if we can get something going.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on November 27, 2021, 08:32:40 PM
What the anti's don't realize is, who's gonna foot the bill for wildlife conservation/management if hunting gets banned?  Disconnected people voicing opinions on policies that they have no skin in the game in.

they dont care, and at one time they tried to fold DNR PArks and WDFW together. Likely to weaken the influence of sportsmen
:yeah:
I don't think sportsman realize how much the antis would like them and their money out of the equation. Especially in this state! The general fund only needs a signature to fill the gap.

True, you can't assume their version of conservation is the same as ours.  It's easy to sue for funding of the ESA species they want worked on and the rest will just be whatever they be.  Nature will take its course, with a few friendly nudges as necessary.
Heck no there version of conservation is not the same.
You didn't know the commission is in the process of changing the definition of conservation.
How doomed are we now.

The writing is certainly on the wall and it's in plain English for all to read.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Hunter4Life on November 27, 2021, 09:22:04 PM
What the anti's don't realize is, who's gonna foot the bill for wildlife conservation/management if hunting gets banned?  Disconnected people voicing opinions on policies that they have no skin in the game in.

they dont care, and at one time they tried to fold DNR PArks and WDFW together. Likely to weaken the influence of sportsmen
:yeah:
I don't think sportsman realize how much the antis would like them and their money out of the equation. Especially in this state! The general fund only needs a signature to fill the gap.

Tbar, everything you said is spot on.  The animal-rights and the anti's would love to see the sportsmen and our money out of the picture.  If they could get the legislature to eliminate licenses, they could do it in a heartbeat, so they could say we contribute nothing. 

This next session is going to be really tough.  It is not a budget session and we lost our best friend in Brian Blake as Chair of the House Natural Resources Chair.  We could always count on him killing all the bad stuff in his committee.  We have anti's chairing both Natural Resources Committees.  Chapman is a horrible replacement for Blake.  VanDeWege in the Senate doesn't get any worse.  He is as anti-hunting as you can get, and Solomon as Vice Chair is almost as bad as he is.  They are going to repackage that horrible HB 1375 under a different bill number.  We as hunters need a long and short term strategy.  Both for the Commission and the legislature.  The Hunters Heritage Council has killed every anti-hunting bill since 1996, but this session will be our toughest.  If we survive this session, I think 2023 will be better.

I would love for our PAC to get help, but I think Tbar laid a good long-term strategy for the Commission for spring bear.  I think we need to pressure senate natural resources committee for a conformation vote on Lorna Smith.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: JeepWrangler on November 28, 2021, 05:02:19 AM
Hi harveymarv,

Thank-you for your post.

I am embarrassed to say I did not know of Hunters Heritage Council.

That is my bad.

I have reached out to them to find out how I can be of help.

Thank-you
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: saylean on November 29, 2021, 03:20:22 PM
Have you all signed up yet to speak at the commission meeting this week? If not you should. Elk, wolves and fishing are back on the block. Public comment is allowed to express your thoughts on spring bear.

We must not let Lorna Smith get confirmed. Call your senator and make noise.

Call 360.786.7662 senator Jesse Salomon and ask he not confirm her.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 29, 2021, 04:59:19 PM
Signed up to speak. I what they wanted as far as "agenda item" that I wanted to comment on so I put '2. Open Public Comment'
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: pickardjw on November 30, 2021, 09:00:28 AM
Unfortunately the meeting is during work and I have a meeting during the public comment period...
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 30, 2021, 09:06:32 AM
Sign up to comment at the commission meeting Thursday Dec 2
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: pickardjw on November 30, 2021, 09:10:48 AM
Is there a public comment period for that meeting? Agenda doesn't show one. The registration form is also kind of confusing...it says to sign up for agenda items 1, 3 or 11 but those are all Friday and they're:

1. Call to Order
3. Director's Report
11. Miscellaneous and Meeting Debrief

Agenda item 2 is the public comment period...makes no sense.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Colville on November 30, 2021, 09:54:49 AM
There are no established hunting rights in the state.  No mandate that the dept manage toward science or toward harvest based values.  We live in WA and the department is an arm of a liberal government.  Only a change in that government will change the WDFW.  Odds of that, near zero.  The only other way changes benefit hunting and harvest, when the outcomes of WDFW hurt liberals, when their needs and ours are aligned, we can move the needle.  VERY unlikely in most all hunting areas, except cougar and bear near cities, to ever align.  A person who really, very seriously, places hunting at a top priority for the way they conduct their life needs to look to move out of state.  The rest need to continue to save their $ to hunt out of state.  There's no point in whining.  This is THEIR state and they've made it perfectly clear.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 30, 2021, 10:07:05 AM
A more concerted effort by hunters to get involved and speak up would help alot instead of saying it won't help.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Colville on November 30, 2021, 10:15:51 AM
What's the evidence that it will help?  The members aren't elected.  They are selected exactly to direct the WDFW ever downhill toward hunting.  They aren't judges or otherwise "open minded".  I'm open to the argument Skyval, but what's the reason to believe any level of hunter anger matters?  The members simply are not responsible or accountable in any way to the public and hunters are simply not an organized interest group that wields the kind of electoral retribution that might get some attention.  Why would this be any less futile than running for Mayor of Seattle or King County Executive as a Republican?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on November 30, 2021, 10:22:51 AM
It will help if a member of the commission is able to be convinced to change their vote.  The argument is whether that's the case or not.  I suppose it's always a possibility, maybe someone knows a specific member that might be convinced otherwise and it would be beneficial to speak to their perspective directly.

My guess is those that voted no on spring bear have made up their mind long ago but I hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: saylean on November 30, 2021, 11:12:26 AM
A more concerted effort by hunters to get involved and speak up would help alot instead of saying it won't help.

100 Skyvalhunter.

All the complaining I have seen online (myself included), that energy could be more well spent emailing/calling/writing the commission, the WDFW, legislatures and posting on social media to spread the word.

Focus this disappointment and turn it into resolve to not let this crap go by without resistance and our voice being heard.
Enough is enough.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: JeepWrangler on November 30, 2021, 01:28:10 PM
I was unaware of the following quote as copy / pasted from "The Spokesman-Review on Fri Nov 19. 2021 article titled:

"In tied vote, Washington commissioners suspend controversial spring bear hunt"

I read the following:

"Following comments from the commissioners, some of which were critical of staffís data, WDFW Director Kelly Susewind defended the agencyís science and said he heard a number of false or misleading statements from commissioners"

It's pretty strong to be called out by the Director for making false and misleading statements.


Good to see Director Suswind calling out those Commissioners making false and misleading statements.

Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Tbar on November 30, 2021, 06:03:43 PM
What the anti's don't realize is, who's gonna foot the bill for wildlife conservation/management if hunting gets banned?  Disconnected people voicing opinions on policies that they have no skin in the game in.

they dont care, and at one time they tried to fold DNR PArks and WDFW together. Likely to weaken the influence of sportsmen
:yeah:
I don't think sportsman realize how much the antis would like them and their money out of the equation. Especially in this state! The general fund only needs a signature to fill the gap.

Tbar, everything you said is spot on.  The animal-rights and the anti's would love to see the sportsmen and our money out of the picture.  If they could get the legislature to eliminate licenses, they could do it in a heartbeat, so they could say we contribute nothing. 

This next session is going to be really tough.  It is not a budget session and we lost our best friend in Brian Blake as Chair of the House Natural Resources Chair.  We could always count on him killing all the bad stuff in his committee.  We have anti's chairing both Natural Resources Committees.  Chapman is a horrible replacement for Blake.  VanDeWege in the Senate doesn't get any worse.  He is as anti-hunting as you can get, and Solomon as Vice Chair is almost as bad as he is.  They are going to repackage that horrible HB 1375 under a different bill number.  We as hunters need a long and short term strategy.  Both for the Commission and the legislature.  The Hunters Heritage Council has killed every anti-hunting bill since 1996, but this session will be our toughest.  If we survive this session, I think 2023 will be better.

I would love for our PAC to get help, but I think Tbar laid a good long-term strategy for the Commission for spring bear.  I think we need to pressure senate natural resources committee for a conformation vote on Lorna Smith.
First,  thank you for chiming in and thank you for all you do for sportsman in this state and beyond.
I feel like we need to do a little ground work prior to pushing for a vote.  I'd like a vote on all four unconfirmed commissioners. They have all produced enough of a body of work to make fair assessments and provide meaningful testimony at the leg.

Now a brief recommendation to all the people on here who plan to testify at the next meetings. Tell your story, don't  try to carry the torch for timber or combat the emotional testimony.  This seems to be the most compelling approach to get through to the panel.  Speak about First hand accounts of spring bear hunts, where you have done your due diligence to responsible conservation that will perpetuate future opportunities for future generations.  This is true from nearly every spring boot hunt I've been a part of and every hound hunt I've been a part of. Selectivity was a big unknown in discussions.  There are so many things that outdoors men and women do, mostly out of common practice,  that is grossly misrepresented during public testimony. The commission stated that they largely discounted ancillary benefits of the hunt and cared about what was happening.  The resource needs management and spring seasons are simply a tool that falls in line with the mission of the wdfw. FWIW those are my  :twocents: on the upcoming meeting. There likely will be zero effect on the previous decision but should be food for thought when the difficult topics arise in the future.  Thank you all who are taking the time to testify, although we may walk separate paths there are many parallels that cannot and should not be ignored. 
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 30, 2021, 06:30:33 PM
Is there a public comment period for that meeting? Agenda doesn't show one. The registration form is also kind of confusing...it says to sign up for agenda items 1, 3 or 11 but those are all Friday and they're:

1. Call to Order
3. Director's Report
11. Miscellaneous and Meeting Debrief

Agenda item 2 is the public comment period...makes no sense.
Indeed itís confusingÖmaybe 1,3,11 are examples? I signed up for #2

If there are arenít 50-100 hunters that want to comment we deserve our season to be taken away.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Tbar on December 01, 2021, 09:31:20 AM
Sign up to comment at the commission meeting Thursday Dec 2
I don't believe there's open public comment tomorrow. Tomorrow is committee meetings.  There is on Friday  when the regular meeting is held.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 01, 2021, 11:57:10 AM
https://www.themeateater.com/conservation/wildlife-management/spring-bear-hunts-cancelled-in-washington-state
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: pickardjw on December 01, 2021, 12:53:08 PM
Do we know if anyone has submitted a formal petition mentioned at the end of the article?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on December 01, 2021, 01:02:50 PM
Do we know if anyone has submitted a formal petition mentioned at the end of the article?
I know  a member from here either has or is in the process of doing so.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: jackelope on December 01, 2021, 01:04:27 PM
@saylean
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on December 01, 2021, 01:10:15 PM
@saylean

Its not him or me
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Washington Wapiti on December 01, 2021, 01:12:59 PM
https://www.outdoorlife.com/opinion/washington-spring-bear-hunt-canceled/
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: RB on December 01, 2021, 01:20:49 PM
Just a quick Facebook search and found Lorna Smith is FB friends with Mitch Friedman, the head of Conservation Northwest.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on December 01, 2021, 01:54:08 PM
Just a quick Facebook search and found Lorna Smith is FB friends with Mitch Friedman, the head of Conservation Northwest.

Shocker!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: saylean on December 01, 2021, 06:12:28 PM
I have not submitted it
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 01, 2021, 08:02:13 PM
To clarify. The open public comment period is December 3rd at 9am. If I'm wrong someone correct me.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2021/02december2021-fwc-agenda
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Hunter4Life on December 01, 2021, 10:39:49 PM
I see this spring bear vote as flawed.  The Commission violated its own procedures during the meeting.


Review RCW 77.04.020

Quote
RCW 77.04.020
Composition of departmentóPowers and duties.
The department consists of the state fish and wildlife commission and the director. The commission may delegate to the director any of the powers and duties vested in the commission.

Why wasn't a motion made by a member of the Commission to let the Director be an emergency Director with an empty Commission seat pursuant to RCW 77.04.020 to break the tie?

Quote
Pages 7 & 8 of the Commission's Parliamentary Procedures:
The will of the majority must be carried out, and the rights of the minority must be preserved.

Why wasn't any Commissioner given a chance to do this?

Larry Carpenter is the real focus of this spring bear vote.  He is the villain.  So many questions swirl around him.  He stabbed us in the back.  If he would have voted yes like he did in 2021, we wouldn't even be discussing this.

BTW, points brought to the Commission must be concise and clear.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: elkrack on December 03, 2021, 11:09:23 AM
Any word on how the meeting is going as far as spring bear discussion?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: saylean on December 03, 2021, 11:18:11 AM
Any word on how the meeting is going as far as spring bear discussion?

We had some great articulate comments (despite then being labeled personal attacks), and a guy talking about bullfrogs which was entertaining.

We are getting noticed, we must continue to pressure them.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: bearpaw on December 03, 2021, 11:23:30 AM
https://www.themeateater.com/conservation/wildlife-management/spring-bear-hunts-cancelled-in-washington-state

Quote
Readers can also contact the WDFW commission directly via email, at commission@dfw.wa.gov, or by phone at 360-902-2267.

There is also a formal petition form on WDFWís website for anyone seeking to repeal a state administrative rule. According to Commissioner Thorburn, all such petitions must be addressed by the committee.

ďOur rules can be petitioned,Ē she said. ďI donít know if it could happen fast enough, but thereís a whole process and we have to respond to a rule petition. I think itís a 60-day turnaround. Thatís a process that I havenít seen anybody consider yet.Ē

@Hunter4Life

Is there any way this petition process can be used regarding the points you made in your last post?

Another point of contention for me, these controversial votes seem to occur when hunters are busy with hunting season!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: kellama2001 on December 03, 2021, 11:31:32 AM
To clarify. The open public comment period is December 3rd at 9am. If I'm wrong someone correct me.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2021/02december2021-fwc-agenda

This was a good article, thanks for posting
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: mdbuck5x5 on December 03, 2021, 11:33:49 AM
Any word on how the meeting is going as far as spring bear discussion?

We had some great articulate comments (despite then being labeled personal attacks), and a guy talking about bullfrogs which was entertaining.

We are getting noticed, we must continue to pressure them.

I noticed the same thing labeling them as personal attacks. Guess they don't know the difference between facts and opinions.

Of course Lorna Smith gave the same regurgitated response stating its "my opinion" in her rebuttal to all the criticism she is receiving. The fact is she will not change her position either way. She is anti predator hunting and anti hunting overall. Her responses to yesterday's meeting on the Blue Mountain elk population and comment about why they are looking at removing lions instead of reducing harvest opportunities should reaffirm that. She's a cancer that will not go away unless we keep at it until she's removed.  :twocents:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: saylean on December 03, 2021, 11:49:36 AM
Any word on how the meeting is going as far as spring bear discussion?

We had some great articulate comments (despite then being labeled personal attacks), and a guy talking about bullfrogs which was entertaining.

We are getting noticed, we must continue to pressure them.

I noticed the same thing labeling them as personal attacks. Guess they don't know the difference between facts and opinions.

Of course Lorna Smith gave the same regurgitated response stating its "my opinion" in her rebuttal to all the criticism she is receiving. The fact is she will not change her position either way. She is anti predator hunting and anti hunting overall. Her responses to yesterday's meeting on the Blue Mountain elk population and comment about why they are looking at removing lions instead of reducing harvest opportunities should reaffirm that. She's a cancer that will not go away unless we keep at it until she's removed.  :twocents:

I was wondering where all the ďpersonal attacksĒ wereÖquoting a persons words and calling out their vote isnít a personal attack.

About the bluesÖyouíre 100 right.

Take out one cougar you save whatÖ40 elk in a year? Cut out one hunter you lose money and might gain one elk, maybe.
We must continue this pressure and not let her get confirmed.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: KFhunter on December 03, 2021, 11:51:47 AM
"Personal attacks" are removed from consideration?

Quite the tatic, labeling everyone they disagree with as Personal attacks
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: X-Force on December 03, 2021, 11:52:01 AM
Smith responded to Bozeís emailÖ the commission should be a broad range of folksÖ but when a tribal biologist/tribal member comes on and says support the bear hunt for biological and traditional reasonsÖ then Smith calls spring bear hunting unethical, I laughed out loud. I think she may find herself on shaker ground than she thinks.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: JeepWrangler on December 03, 2021, 12:00:40 PM
Yes, to what the last couple writers said.

There was a comment by the guy in charge of the Public Comments period that if you were on the call and did not get an opportunity to speak, he encourage those people to write in and that they would be sure to read the comments.

I was on the call for 1+ hour did not get called.

But after I did send in my comments.

Thanks to all who were on the call.



Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: johnbmyersii on December 03, 2021, 12:13:33 PM
not sure what good it'll do but we need to hammer Inslee's office and the senate natural resource committee members for breaking the law on their commission appointments. RCW 77.04.040 stats that the Governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sport fishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, environmentalists. Right now the commission is as we know way out of balance. I have sent another round of emails to co-chair Jesse Solomon and my Senator Christine Rofles. I encourage everyone to send complaints to:
 
jesse.salomon@leg.wa.gov
governorboardsandcommissions@gov.wa.gov
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: harveymarv on December 03, 2021, 12:47:28 PM
not sure if this has been mentioned (or how effective it would be), but any individual or organization can create a petition to repeal or amend any state administrative rule:

https://ofm.wa.gov/sites/default/files/public/legacy/reports/petition.pdf

they are required by law to respond to each petition within 60 days. if your petition is denied by wdfw, you can first apply for review of the rule by the joint administrative rules review committee under RCW 34.05.655 (these folks - https://ballotpedia.org/Joint_Administrative_Rules_Review_Committee,_Washington_State_Legislature), and then you can appeal directly to the governor (just to annoy folks in his office, and/or bring the response to the media/online). maybe it's fantasyland, but what if all the hunters who signed the .org petition, also submitted individual petition forms, and appealed to the governor?

i for one will be filling this out to the best of my ability and submitting to wdfw. we need to make more noise.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Hunter4Life on December 03, 2021, 08:53:25 PM
https://www.themeateater.com/conservation/wildlife-management/spring-bear-hunts-cancelled-in-washington-state

Quote
Readers can also contact the WDFW commission directly via email, at commission@dfw.wa.gov, or by phone at 360-902-2267.

There is also a formal petition form on WDFWís website for anyone seeking to repeal a state administrative rule. According to Commissioner Thorburn, all such petitions must be addressed by the committee.

ďOur rules can be petitioned,Ē she said. ďI donít know if it could happen fast enough, but thereís a whole process and we have to respond to a rule petition. I think itís a 60-day turnaround. Thatís a process that I havenít seen anybody consider yet.Ē

@Hunter4Life

Is there any way this petition process can be used regarding the points you made in your last post?

Another point of contention for me, these controversial votes seem to occur when hunters are busy with hunting season!

Hello Bearpaw. 

Absolutely we can use the petition on the points I made.  I think there was someone pushing the Commission's buttons, I am not at liberty to say any more than that, but what there is no doubt is that Larry Carpenter stabbed us in the back.  He is the villain.  At today's Commission's meeting they re-elected him as Commission Chair, this is after he ran for Mount Vernon City Council in 2021, a position, if he would have won, he would have had to resign his Commission seat.  Am I not the only one who thinks there is something rotten in Denmark?  They remove Barbara Baker as Vice Chair and elect Molly Linville, a Commissioner who flip flops as much as Mitt Romney.  What gives?  Secret nominations for Commission Chair and Vice Chair.  The pro-hunting Commissioners give in with virtually no objection.  WTF?!

Let's draft something.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on December 03, 2021, 09:13:23 PM
I'll tell you guys a secret.
If you want to help hunting across this state.....
Take somebody hunting that's never been before.
Way more powerful than dealing with this commission.
Draft it up
Whining till where blue in the face.
If everybody on this site was to recruit one hunter a year ,we would be so much better off right now.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: ThurstonCokid on December 03, 2021, 09:29:19 PM
Iíll make it a job to kill 2 fall bears this year since spring seasons cancelled. Iíve never been motivated for 2 until now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on December 03, 2021, 11:54:56 PM
Iíll make it a job to kill 2 fall bears this year since spring seasons cancelled. Iíve never been motivated for 2 until now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have been also thinking about at least harvest one.
I mean I go check clearcuts every year,but I'm gonna try to get a little more die hard this year.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: bearpaw on December 04, 2021, 01:02:00 AM
If everybody on this site was to recruit one hunter a year ,we would be so much better off right now.

 :yeah: BINGO! A square hit right there, you nailed it!
Not to say we don't need to be proactive, but hunter recruitment is probably the most serious issue we face!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on December 04, 2021, 01:41:00 AM
If everybody on this site was to recruit one hunter a year ,we would be so much better off right now.

 :yeah: BINGO! A square hit right there, you nailed it!
Not to say we don't need to be proactive, but hunter recruitment is probably the most serious issue we face!
I Agree Alot of proactive.
Recruitment would help us out A lot in the future.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: cem3434 on December 04, 2021, 11:05:11 AM
Iíll make it a job to kill 2 fall bears this year since spring seasons cancelled. Iíve never been motivated for 2 until now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why stop at 2?  :peep:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: saylean on December 04, 2021, 11:09:17 AM
Do both: recruit and follow/complain/make noise on commission issues.

They said it yesterday, the theyíre a public entity and have to listen to the public ie the loudest crowd gets noticed.

Keep up this pressure.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: cooltimber on December 04, 2021, 12:07:38 PM
Iíll make it a job to kill 2 fall bears this year since spring seasons cancelled. Iíve never been motivated for 2 until now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why stop at 2?  :peep: same here,its game on now!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: JeepWrangler on December 04, 2021, 12:14:56 PM
Was told this morning (in writing from the WDFW) the Commission is 'still getting dozens of emails every day' regarding the cancellation of the Spring Bear Hunting Season.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if that number was in the hundreds of emails every day?

BTW, people are still signing the change.org petition to Bring Back Spring Bear Hunting in Washington State

Earlier this morning it showed 15,643 signatures and change.org says  it is one of the highest signed petitions on their site.

If you can, if you will, please spread and share the petition. People are still signing it.

I am old. I am not very tech savy. I had to ask for help to learn how to do 'Stories' on Instagram and put in the links and such.

But every day when I repost it to my stories (apparently stories are only up for about a day then you have to add it to your stories again). but every day when I do it I add some mentions and I'll be darned.... it gets engagement on the Instagram.

If an old guy like me who is not too savy with this whole new fangled inter-web can ask for help and learn how to share a petition in an effort to help hunting... well, I encourage others to do the same.

Please.

and

Thank-you
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: avidnwoutdoorsman on December 04, 2021, 12:22:55 PM
https://www.themeateater.com/conservation/wildlife-management/spring-bear-hunts-cancelled-in-washington-state

This was a great article by those folks. The second I heard the news on the suspension I texted my buddy over there and his response was "I'll put a writer on it". Been waiting for the article. Very happy with it.... will help us on a national level potentially like the anti's are doing.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Meow on December 04, 2021, 01:06:36 PM
If everybody on this site was to recruit one hunter a year ,we would be so much better off right now.

 :yeah: BINGO! A square hit right there, you nailed it!
Not to say we don't need to be proactive, but hunter recruitment is probably the most serious issue we face!
I Agree Alot of proactive.
Recruitment would help us out A lot in the future.

And be sure to emphasize the fun and benefits of predator hunting. Get your new recruits in the field in August and early September when the conditions are a little more forgiving and the concentration of hunters is less. 8)
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: bearpaw on December 04, 2021, 04:01:09 PM
H-W is looking for a new moderator for the Activism Board. Washington State Bow Hunters and Washington State Trappers have both been active on the forum and the forum has another group that just joined to promote activism. Candidates for this moderator position should be someone who:

1. Wants to support and work together with all involved user groups
2. Wants to do more to promote activism on the forum and in Washington
3. Willing to work closely with the other moderators on the forum
4. Can be level headed even when others may attempt to provoke
5. Must be committed to keeping confidential information completely confidential
6. Understands this is a voluntary position in every respect

If you are interested please send me a message!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: harveymarv on December 04, 2021, 08:52:48 PM
i emailed the commission again, got a few more people to sign the change.org petition, and i will be submitting (mailing) the repeal petition form to wdfw tomorrow. by law, they have to reply within 60 days, and when they reject my petition i plan to go down the appeal path.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: JeepWrangler on December 05, 2021, 05:03:30 AM
Thank you harveymarv

 :tup:   :tup:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: elkrack on December 05, 2021, 11:12:36 AM
Thank you harveymarv

 :tup:   :tup:

 :yeah:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on December 05, 2021, 11:27:49 AM
It will be interesting to follow.  I wouldn't even be surprised if the state didn't respond.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: nwwanderer on December 06, 2021, 07:57:01 AM
I would hope as many pictures of cows in the blues with no calves about and a copy of the commissions goals for the herd might help with more pics of wolves and cats emailed as a bonus.  Remember Kretz pictures with cat damaged foals?  Certainly had an effect.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 06, 2021, 09:21:13 AM
Meateater episode #302 he speaks to spring bear. Skip to the 40 min mark if you're only interested in the bear topic.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: jackelope on December 06, 2021, 03:54:04 PM
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=266548
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Torrent50 on December 07, 2021, 11:35:19 AM
I posted this same post in the other spring bear season thread, but wanted it to be here as well so everyone gets it.

I just received a phone call from Representative MaCewen's office.  He is one of my reps that I emailed.  The person I talked to said that they have received several letters about this decision and he has been working to get details.  He also said that they just found out that the 9th position has not been filled and will be drafting a letter to be signed by Rep MaCewen to the Governor asking why he has not filled the position in violation of the RCW and push him to fill the spot.  He wasn't sure how this would affect decisions that have been made in the past without the eastern half of the state being properly represented but stated that he would keep in touch with me about what happens.

I was also told that they are drafting legislation to be presented at the session starting in January to remove the setting of hunting seasons and regulations from the Commission and make it part of the legislative process as is done in most other states.  I'm not sure exactly how I feel about this, knowing some of the other decisions that the legislature makes.  But, they would be less likely to make a decision based on emotion and ignore the science.  The one thing it would provide is many more pressure points for us, as citizens, to apply pressure to make quality decisions.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: bigtex on December 07, 2021, 12:04:01 PM
I was also told that they are drafting legislation to be presented at the session starting in January to remove the setting of hunting seasons and regulations from the Commission and make it part of the legislative process as is done in most other states.  I'm not sure exactly how I feel about this, knowing some of the other decisions that the legislature makes.  But, they would be less likely to make a decision based on emotion and ignore the science.  The one thing it would provide is many more pressure points for us, as citizens, to apply pressure to make quality decisions.
First off, this is not done in "most other states." Also, this would mean the democrat controlled legislature and the governor would approve hunting seasons, how do you think that will fare for us?

Sorry, but this is a TERRIBLE proposal!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Igor on December 07, 2021, 12:06:42 PM
I was also told that they are drafting legislation to be presented at the session starting in January to remove the setting of hunting seasons and regulations from the Commission and make it part of the legislative process as is done in most other states.  I'm not sure exactly how I feel about this, knowing some of the other decisions that the legislature makes.  But, they would be less likely to make a decision based on emotion and ignore the science.  The one thing it would provide is many more pressure points for us, as citizens, to apply pressure to make quality decisions.
First off, this is not done in "most other states." Also, this would mean the democrat controlled legislature and the governor would approve hunting seasons, how do you think that will fare for us?

Sorry, but this is a TERRIBLE proposal!

Thanks, bigtex.  Perfect response !!!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: KFhunter on December 07, 2021, 12:15:23 PM
Agree, that is not the way.


We need to block confirmation of Smith by writing our reps and making a stink, and push for the 9th commission member to be appointed.  We also need a good replacement for the chair.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on December 07, 2021, 12:20:07 PM
The problem is the guy nominating people, not necessarily the people themselves.  He can find 1,000 anti hunters to fill that spot, just keep naming them, dragging feet and you get nowhere.  He could even start nominating worse candidates. 

The commission needs better legislation around how they get formed and what the makeup is.  Right now, it's 3 west, 3 east and 3 at large.  It should be broken down into interest groups.  Figure out 5-9 interest groups and a way to nominate people from that group.  Take as much of it out of the political sphere as possible.

Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Torrent50 on December 07, 2021, 12:20:34 PM
I was also told that they are drafting legislation to be presented at the session starting in January to remove the setting of hunting seasons and regulations from the Commission and make it part of the legislative process as is done in most other states.  I'm not sure exactly how I feel about this, knowing some of the other decisions that the legislature makes.  But, they would be less likely to make a decision based on emotion and ignore the science.  The one thing it would provide is many more pressure points for us, as citizens, to apply pressure to make quality decisions.
First off, this is not done in "most other states." Also, this would mean the democrat controlled legislature and the governor would approve hunting seasons, how do you think that will fare for us?

Sorry, but this is a TERRIBLE proposal!

Thanks, bigtex.  Perfect response !!!

Well, we have a commission that is appointed (or left vacant) by the Democrat Governor and approved by the Democrat run senate making decisions for "social" reasons right now......so..........  Like I said, I would have to see the details of the bill and how this would be handled, but my guess is that WDFW would propose the seasons and rules and they would just need to be voted on by the legislature.  Let's be honest, most of them don't care about hunting seasons and will vote to approve whatever the WDFW puts in front of them.  There have to be a few Democrats that hunt.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: WSU on December 07, 2021, 12:23:25 PM
Not many in the legislature really care about hunting and fishing.  Certainly not enough to make it a priority over other issues.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on December 07, 2021, 12:26:20 PM
I was also told that they are drafting legislation to be presented at the session starting in January to remove the setting of hunting seasons and regulations from the Commission and make it part of the legislative process as is done in most other states.  I'm not sure exactly how I feel about this, knowing some of the other decisions that the legislature makes.  But, they would be less likely to make a decision based on emotion and ignore the science.  The one thing it would provide is many more pressure points for us, as citizens, to apply pressure to make quality decisions.
First off, this is not done in "most other states." Also, this would mean the democrat controlled legislature and the governor would approve hunting seasons, how do you think that will fare for us?

Sorry, but this is a TERRIBLE proposal!

Thanks, bigtex.  Perfect response !!!

Well, we have a commission that is appointed (or left vacant) by the Democrat Governor and approved by the Democrat run senate making decisions for "social" reasons right now......so..........  Like I said, I would have to see the details of the bill and how this would be handled, but my guess is that WDFW would propose the seasons and rules and they would just need to be voted on by the legislature.  Let's be honest, most of them don't care about hunting seasons and will vote to approve whatever the WDFW puts in front of them.  There have to be a few Democrats that hunt.

On the flip side, a simple majority could shut down any or all hunting?  They have a 57-41 majority in the house and 28-21 in the senate.  I also don't have a ton of faith in the Department, the governor appoints the director after all.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: idahohuntr on December 07, 2021, 12:28:46 PM
I was also told that they are drafting legislation to be presented at the session starting in January to remove the setting of hunting seasons and regulations from the Commission and make it part of the legislative process as is done in most other states.  I'm not sure exactly how I feel about this, knowing some of the other decisions that the legislature makes.  But, they would be less likely to make a decision based on emotion and ignore the science.  The one thing it would provide is many more pressure points for us, as citizens, to apply pressure to make quality decisions.
First off, this is not done in "most other states." Also, this would mean the democrat controlled legislature and the governor would approve hunting seasons, how do you think that will fare for us?

Sorry, but this is a TERRIBLE proposal!

Thanks, bigtex.  Perfect response !!!

Well, we have a commission that is appointed (or left vacant) by the Democrat Governor and approved by the Democrat run senate making decisions for "social" reasons right now......so..........  Like I said, I would have to see the details of the bill and how this would be handled, but my guess is that WDFW would propose the seasons and rules and they would just need to be voted on by the legislature.  Let's be honest, most of them don't care about hunting seasons and will vote to approve whatever the WDFW puts in front of them.  There have to be a few Democrats that hunt.
Normally I would agree that its a bad idea for the legislature to set seasons and even in WA it leaves me uneasy...but Torrent makes excellent points and frankly I think we'd have better and more consistent representation this way.  What is shaping up now is the worst possible scenario...zealots who are only accountable to a GOV who has no fear of losing an election.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: bigtex on December 07, 2021, 12:33:33 PM
I was also told that they are drafting legislation to be presented at the session starting in January to remove the setting of hunting seasons and regulations from the Commission and make it part of the legislative process as is done in most other states.  I'm not sure exactly how I feel about this, knowing some of the other decisions that the legislature makes.  But, they would be less likely to make a decision based on emotion and ignore the science.  The one thing it would provide is many more pressure points for us, as citizens, to apply pressure to make quality decisions.
First off, this is not done in "most other states." Also, this would mean the democrat controlled legislature and the governor would approve hunting seasons, how do you think that will fare for us?

Sorry, but this is a TERRIBLE proposal!
Thanks, bigtex.  Perfect response !!!
Well, we have a commission that is appointed (or left vacant) by the Democrat Governor and approved by the Democrat run senate making decisions for "social" reasons right now......so..........  Like I said, I would have to see the details of the bill and how this would be handled, but my guess is that WDFW would propose the seasons and rules and they would just need to be voted on by the legislature.  Let's be honest, most of them don't care about hunting seasons and will vote to approve whatever the WDFW puts in front of them.  There have to be a few Democrats that hunt.
And if the legislature fails to pass that year's hunting season what happens? No hunting for that year? It's not common for bills to take several years to finally get passed. Seasons are approved every year, there is no default.

Commissioners can be not approved by the legislature, in fact several of Inslee's previous appointees have withdrawn because they weren't going to get approved. So there is a process to try and shape the commission. We have a legislature that this year approved a law to ban condiment packets, and other plastic eating utensils. You think they're going to be nice to hunters? Several years ago a state Senator in public session called WDFW Enforcement racist for trying to retain the little authority they have over tribal hunting enforcement. Do you think that Senator will be nice to hunters?

There is a reason why most state's don't do what MacEwen is supposedly proposing.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: idahohuntr on December 07, 2021, 12:55:49 PM
I was also told that they are drafting legislation to be presented at the session starting in January to remove the setting of hunting seasons and regulations from the Commission and make it part of the legislative process as is done in most other states.  I'm not sure exactly how I feel about this, knowing some of the other decisions that the legislature makes.  But, they would be less likely to make a decision based on emotion and ignore the science.  The one thing it would provide is many more pressure points for us, as citizens, to apply pressure to make quality decisions.
First off, this is not done in "most other states." Also, this would mean the democrat controlled legislature and the governor would approve hunting seasons, how do you think that will fare for us?

Sorry, but this is a TERRIBLE proposal!
Thanks, bigtex.  Perfect response !!!
Well, we have a commission that is appointed (or left vacant) by the Democrat Governor and approved by the Democrat run senate making decisions for "social" reasons right now......so..........  Like I said, I would have to see the details of the bill and how this would be handled, but my guess is that WDFW would propose the seasons and rules and they would just need to be voted on by the legislature.  Let's be honest, most of them don't care about hunting seasons and will vote to approve whatever the WDFW puts in front of them.  There have to be a few Democrats that hunt.
And if the legislature fails to pass that year's hunting season what happens? No hunting for that year? It's not common for bills to take several years to finally get passed. Seasons are approved every year, there is no default.

Commissioners can be not approved by the legislature, in fact several of Inslee's previous appointees have withdrawn because they weren't going to get approved. So there is a process to try and shape the commission. We have a legislature that this year approved a law to ban condiment packets, and other plastic eating utensils. You think they're going to be nice to hunters? Several years ago a state Senator in public session called WDFW Enforcement racist for trying to retain the little authority they have over tribal hunting enforcement. Do you think that Senator will be nice to hunters?

There is a reason why most state's don't do what MacEwen is supposedly proposing.
State game officers have a long history of discriminatory and illegal behavior against Native Americans exercising treaty rights...so if that is your example, I'd say try again. 

There is a lot more political moderation (and influence) in the legislature than there is in the special interest appointments.  Also, as we just saw, appointments can be made without confirmation/approval by legislature. 
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Torrent50 on December 07, 2021, 03:20:33 PM
I honestly believe that the season setting process would probably remain the same, with public comment, meetings, etc and then seasons set for the next three year period.  But instead of those getting approved by the Commission, they would get approved by the legislature.  I think that most of those types of actions end up being a rubber stamp approval process.  I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of legislators would not read the season dates and rules to see if they agreed, but would simply vote to approve since WDFW did the work and said that is what they want. 

As it stands now, it only takes one or two commissioners to go rogue and suddenly things are drastically changed.  It would take a lot more legislators to cause the same result. 
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on December 07, 2021, 04:22:39 PM
I honestly believe that the season setting process would probably remain the same, with public comment, meetings, etc and then seasons set for the next three year period.  But instead of those getting approved by the Commission, they would get approved by the legislature.  I think that most of those types of actions end up being a rubber stamp approval process.  I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of legislators would not read the season dates and rules to see if they agreed, but would simply vote to approve since WDFW did the work and said that is what they want. 

As it stands now, it only takes one or two commissioners to go rogue and suddenly things are drastically changed.  It would take a lot more legislators to cause the same result.

Could be.  One could also argue that the director is appointed and would sign off on any seasons before they got to the legislature.  The Gov would then only need to get one appointment in instead of 9.

At the end of the day, it's the will of the majority.  When there are a lot of people that care about hunting and fishing, the department runs accordingly.  When there isn't, you get what we have.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on December 07, 2021, 10:37:33 PM
The problem is the guy nominating people, not necessarily the people themselves.  He can find 1,000 anti hunters to fill that spot, just keep naming them, dragging feet and you get nowhere.  He could even start nominating worse candidates. 

The commission needs better legislation around how they get formed and what the makeup is.  Right now, it's 3 west, 3 east and 3 at large.  It should be broken down into interest groups.  Figure out 5-9 interest groups and a way to nominate people from that group.  Take as much of it out of the political sphere as possible.

Its already codified in law. Question... Where do we go fro recourse? The Governor appoints, the AG is in his pocket, the Senate Natural resources committee is run by a HSUS State senator of the year several times running that is supposed to confirm appointments...

This only leaves the fact that sportsmen have to open wallets, organize and file lawsuits. Sportsmen are the only group that do not sue. As a result we can be used and abused by all parties.

RCW 77.04.040
CommissionóQualifications of members.
Persons eligible for appointment as members of the commission shall have general knowledge of the habits and distribution of fish and wildlife and shall not hold another state, county, or municipal elective or appointive office. In making these appointments, the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists. Persons eligible for appointment as fish and wildlife commissioners shall comply with the provisions of chapters 42.52 and * 42.17 RCW.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on December 07, 2021, 11:39:14 PM
We would have to band together with other interest groups since it covers fishing as well.  Rec and commercial join forces which would be interesting to see.

I agree, only avenue is lawsuits or citizen's initiative.  Both require substantial money and organization.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: JeepWrangler on December 08, 2021, 05:03:42 AM
Thank you for saying it out loud Special T

"Sportsmen are the only group that do not sue. As a result we can be used and abused by all parties"

The hunting community at large bitches and complains, but they do nothing.

Victims will be Victims...
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on December 08, 2021, 06:45:24 AM
Thank you for saying it out loud Special T

"Sportsmen are the only group that do not sue. As a result we can be used and abused by all parties"

The hunting community at large bitches and complains, but they do nothing.

Victims will be Victims...



https://mynorthwest.com/category/the-dori-monson-show/...        Dori Monson Today hour 2 (Longtime Sonics trainer Frank....) if you are a hunter you should listen to his talk with Tom Nelson of the Outdoor Line regarding our governess's recent appointees to the DFW Commission. It starts at about 22 minutes
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Rob on December 08, 2021, 07:30:57 AM
We are our own worst enemy and it shows as we are loosing the battle.

We are a house divided.  Archers V Modern.  Master Hunters v non-master hunters, and most aggravating, west side hunters V east side hunters.  So many pointless divisions. 

We are hunters and if we would unite, there is little that would stop us.  When you look at license sales, PR funds, and the massive amount of donation based revenue that groups like DU, RMEF, Pheasants forever, etc pull in, we as a demographic control the vast majority of the money that goes into conservation and sustainability of fish and game.  But we blow it by not aligning.

This is a problem with conservatives in general.  We are independently minded where as the socialist/democratic all rally around common goals and talking points.  They build ground swell and make progress while we stand on our non-compromising islands alone as individuals where we are easy to get picked off.

Very sad.


Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: KFhunter on December 08, 2021, 07:32:59 AM
 :yeah:

Perfect is the enemy of good enough
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 08, 2021, 07:36:15 AM
We are our own worst enemy and it shows as we are loosing the battle.

We are a house divided.  Archers V Modern.  Master Hunters v non-master hunters, and most aggravating, west side hunters V east side hunters.  So many pointless divisions. 

We are hunters and if we would unite, there is little that would stop us.  When you look at license sales, PR funds, and the massive amount of donation based revenue that groups like DU, RMEF, Pheasants forever, etc pull in, we as a demographic control the vast majority of the money that goes into conservation and sustainability of fish and game.  But we blow it by not aligning.

This is a problem with conservatives in general.  We are independently minded where as the socialist/democratic all rally around common goals and talking points.  They build ground swell and make progress while we stand on our non-compromising islands alone as individuals where we are easy to get picked off.

Very sad.

 :yeah:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Fatherof5 on December 08, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
We are our own worst enemy and it shows as we are loosing the battle.

We are a house divided.  Archers V Modern.  Master Hunters v non-master hunters, and most aggravating, west side hunters V east side hunters.  So many pointless divisions. 

We are hunters and if we would unite, there is little that would stop us.  When you look at license sales, PR funds, and the massive amount of donation based revenue that groups like DU, RMEF, Pheasants forever, etc pull in, we as a demographic control the vast majority of the money that goes into conservation and sustainability of fish and game.  But we blow it by not aligning.

This is a problem with conservatives in general.  We are independently minded where as the socialist/democratic all rally around common goals and talking points.  They build ground swell and make progress while we stand on our non-compromising islands alone as individuals where we are easy to get picked off.

Very sad.

 :yeah:

I agree 100% and then some!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: elkrack on December 08, 2021, 10:14:27 AM
We are our own worst enemy and it shows as we are loosing the battle.

We are a house divided.  Archers V Modern.  Master Hunters v non-master hunters, and most aggravating, west side hunters V east side hunters.  So many pointless divisions. 

We are hunters and if we would unite, there is little that would stop us.  When you look at license sales, PR funds, and the massive amount of donation based revenue that groups like DU, RMEF, Pheasants forever, etc pull in, we as a demographic control the vast majority of the money that goes into conservation and sustainability of fish and game.  But we blow it by not aligning.

This is a problem with conservatives in general.  We are independently minded where as the socialist/democratic all rally around common goals and talking points.  They build ground swell and make progress while we stand on our non-compromising islands alone as individuals where we are easy to get picked off.

Very sad.

 :yeah:

I agree 100% and then some!

 :yeah:
Hit the nail square on the head!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: vandeman17 on December 08, 2021, 10:22:26 AM
Rob for President 2024  :chuckle:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Rob on December 08, 2021, 12:06:59 PM
Too bad he cannot spell!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: trophyhunt on December 08, 2021, 12:23:01 PM
We are our own worst enemy and it shows as we are loosing the battle.

We are a house divided.  Archers V Modern.  Master Hunters v non-master hunters, and most aggravating, west side hunters V east side hunters.  So many pointless divisions. 

We are hunters and if we would unite, there is little that would stop us.  When you look at license sales, PR funds, and the massive amount of donation based revenue that groups like DU, RMEF, Pheasants forever, etc pull in, we as a demographic control the vast majority of the money that goes into conservation and sustainability of fish and game.  But we blow it by not aligning.

This is a problem with conservatives in general.  We are independently minded where as the socialist/democratic all rally around common goals and talking points.  They build ground swell and make progress while we stand on our non-compromising islands alone as individuals where we are easy to get picked off.

Very sad.

 :yeah:

I agree 100% and then some!

 :yeah:
Hit the nail square on the head!
You forgot to mention ebike lovers V's ebike haters!!   


 :chuckle:  but yes, agree 100%
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: jackelope on December 08, 2021, 05:20:54 PM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-director-confident-spring-bear-hunt-only-paused/?fbclid=IwAR1tx8g7OaQjHidQg5T9eIbPSWnQuDcx_w59vxDYvKuSlsWqdF28Kkuj2Nc


WDFW Director Confident Spring Bear Hunt Only Paused
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 08, 2021, 05:34:33 PM
Thats bold considering the makeup of the commission, Larry betraying us, and the next seat likely filled with another anti. Wish I could have even a single shred of confidence in what he said. It doesn't matter what science they provide and how well they answers the commissions questions. The anti's will never vote for a spring bear hunt.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Practical Approach on December 08, 2021, 05:46:26 PM
Can someone more versed in how the WDFW Commission operates tell me how Larry Carpenter got voted Chair again when his term is and has been expired?  Does this mean he is committed for another term?  Does the Governor have to approve his term?  I feel like the transparency is not there in how the commission works. 

Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 08, 2021, 08:38:13 PM
PLEASE READ AND WRITE AND STAND UP FOR OUR RIGHTS.

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,266614.msg3617332/topicseen.html#new
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on December 08, 2021, 09:01:20 PM
Can someone more versed in how the WDFW Commission operates tell me how Larry Carpenter got voted Chair again when his term is and has been expired?  Does this mean he is committed for another term?  Does the Governor have to approve his term?  I feel like the transparency is not there in how the commission works.

This is a really good question. Carpenter ran for Mount Vernon City Council, near me, and didnt win. It would have disqualified him from the position. So if he wanted to remain why did he run? Why did he get re-appointed  by the Govenor? Why was he once a supporter of sportsmen and now appears to  be the sheild for anti hunters and the Judas that have stabbed hunters in the back.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on December 09, 2021, 07:38:44 AM
This is an interesting take:

https://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-commissioner-explains-no-vote-on-2022-spring-bear-hunt/

It puts the burden on WDFW for not having an accurate bear count, essentially not doing their job.  The argument is that if WDFW does it's job well, the data will be inarguable and the hunt will continue even if unpopular and the subject of lawsuits. 

If it had continued, the lack of data would enable antis to take it out permanently. 

Thus, the goal is to only penalize hunters one year for WDFW's failures.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: ctwiggs1 on December 09, 2021, 07:52:26 AM
This is an interesting take:

https://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-commissioner-explains-no-vote-on-2022-spring-bear-hunt/

It puts the burden on WDFW for not having an accurate bear count, essentially not doing their job.  The argument is that if WDFW does it's job well, the data will be inarguable and the hunt will continue even if unpopular and the subject of lawsuits.

When I sat in on the commissioners meeting that determined the statewide August 1st/2 bear rule, this was also brought up.  What was said then (I'm assuming it to be true today but could be wrong) is that there is kind of an industry standard method of getting black bear counts but it isn't nearly as reliable as ungulate counts. 
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on December 09, 2021, 07:57:57 AM
The bottom of the article notes there is a bet here, on one side of the coin WDFW will produce solid data and the hunt will be impervious to votes and lawsuits. Somehow Larry will still be there or Jay will nominate someone like him as his replacement and flip his vote to yes and it will pass 5-3 or 5-4.

The other side of the coin has this as a beach head, spring hunts will never come back.  Larry will be replaced as well as a new nomination, likely two new anti votes which means likely 4-5 vote on it the next time.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: ctwiggs1 on December 09, 2021, 08:24:38 AM
The bottom of the article notes there is a bet here, on one side of the coin WDFW will produce solid data and the hunt will be impervious to votes and lawsuits. Somehow Larry will still be there or Jay will nominate someone like him as his replacement and flip his vote to yes and it will pass 5-3 or 5-4.

The other side of the coin has this as a beach head, spring hunts will never come back.  Larry will be replaced as well as a new nomination, likely two new anti votes which means likely 4-5 vote on it the next time.

Right now I do not see how it could come back.  I think WDFW made a fair argument and they were ignored.

Larry tried to explain away his one vote but the core issue was still where all roads keep leading back to - social pressure.

Unless he has a change of heart, I don't see the spring season making a return.

Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 09, 2021, 08:24:53 AM
Its hard to keep up with the 57 different bear threads. Has anyone heard from old Larry on this lately or is he a bought and paid for Inslee minion at this point?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on December 09, 2021, 08:38:24 AM
Its hard to keep up with the 57 different bear threads. Has anyone heard from old Larry on this lately or is he a bought and paid for Inslee minion at this point?

This is all I've seen.

https://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-commissioner-explains-no-vote-on-2022-spring-bear-hunt/
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 10, 2021, 08:28:39 AM
Its hard to keep up with the 57 different bear threads.
Crap. I can't find the other 54...
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Rainier10 on December 13, 2021, 11:34:16 AM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/koontz-resigns-from-wdfw-commission/?fbclid=IwAR0buZHUEX6oGOIOBDeuBJPNq7jSRESUIZPSPYaojq3jEamDdA-cefAAFCk

Koontz Resigned
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: ctwiggs1 on December 13, 2021, 11:37:17 AM
Now get an emergency meeting in place to re-vote on spring bear with a quorum!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: X-Force on December 13, 2021, 12:02:07 PM
Keep up the pressure.

If you are interested in WDFW issues apply for the commission. I think Iíve sent to many emails to the governors office this year to be considered
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: harveymarv on December 13, 2021, 12:47:42 PM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/koontz-resigns-from-wdfw-commission/?fbclid=IwAR0buZHUEX6oGOIOBDeuBJPNq7jSRESUIZPSPYaojq3jEamDdA-cefAAFCk

Koontz Resigned

great news! hopefully lorna will follow suit!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 13, 2021, 12:52:08 PM
ha! We can't be that lucky. That nasty woman wouldn't ever give hunters the satisfaction.  We have to keep our foot on the gas to get her appointment nuked.

Koontz resigning is just proof that hunters can in fact be the squeaky wheel that gets some grease. We can't throttle back the pressure though. Hammer down huntwa.

It is ironic that Koontz was saying its too political when he and Smith are the ones that made it political by blatantly ignoring the wdfw bio recomendations.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: andersonjk4 on December 13, 2021, 01:09:54 PM
ha! We can't be that lucky. That nasty woman wouldn't ever give hunters the satisfaction.  We have to keep our foot on the gas to get her appointment nuked.

Koontz resigning is just proof that hunters can in fact be the squeaky wheel that gets some grease. We can't throttle back the pressure though. Hammer down huntwa.

It is ironic that Koontz was saying its too political when he and Smith are the ones that made it political by blatantly ignoring the wdfw bio recomendations.

 :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

Everyone from a district with a democratic Senator needs to contact them early and often about rejecting the confirmation of Commissioner Smith.  I have contacted my Senator several times, but its like preaching to the choir.  Keep up the hard work. 
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Rainier10 on December 15, 2021, 11:36:13 AM
Here is a chance to make your voice heard.

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,266787.45.html
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: elkrack on January 20, 2022, 10:57:37 AM
Calls and e-mails sent this morning. Get loud today this is a big deal
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Ghost Hunter on January 21, 2022, 09:48:55 AM
Link to today's zoom meeting?  Somehow can't find it.  Found it.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2022/21january2022-fwc-agenda
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: spoonman on January 21, 2022, 11:43:09 AM
Everyone jump on and watch. Also comment in the chat and say you are a hunter and want the spring bear hunt back!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on January 21, 2022, 12:31:52 PM
Starts at 1pm
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dreamingbig on January 21, 2022, 01:04:04 PM
No comments allowed on mobile version of zoom.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: elkrack on January 21, 2022, 01:08:37 PM
No comments allowed on mobile version of zoom.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of course why let people who are at work get a voice :bash:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: jrebel on January 21, 2022, 01:17:46 PM
What a crap show.....These folks make our rules / laws / etc.   :bash: :bash:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dreamingbig on January 21, 2022, 01:19:09 PM
It is going to get interesting.  Makes obvious the anti hunters defending their position.  They can t hide their agendas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Netminder01 on January 21, 2022, 01:20:28 PM
Watching this Zoom meeting should be paired with popcorn and whiskey but it's actually way more frustrating than entertaining.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dreamingbig on January 21, 2022, 01:36:19 PM
Sorry Barbara but I donít agree!  The science has already been on the table.  You ignored it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: jrebel on January 21, 2022, 01:40:05 PM
I've vomited in my mouth a few times listening to Commissioners Baker and Smith.   :bash: :bash:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: lewy on January 21, 2022, 01:41:14 PM
Yeah I wanna choke both of em
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dreamingbig on January 21, 2022, 01:43:24 PM
I have great reverence for McIsaac!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: jrebel on January 21, 2022, 01:43:53 PM
I have great reverence for McIsaac!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 :yeah: :yeah:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: TriggerMike on January 21, 2022, 01:44:40 PM
Baker and Smith both said, without directly saying, that when the commission vacancies are filled, that they will vote the same way as them. There was no doubt in their minds when they said it. The future is not looking bright and they know what Inslee is planning.

 :bash: :bash: :bash:

Title: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dreamingbig on January 21, 2022, 01:50:08 PM
Carpenter just had to turn his heat downÖ he is sweating it out.

I could care less what Baker and Smith have to say.  Why should antihunters determine hunting seasons? We are DOOMED!

She wants the public to say in on hunting seasons?  That would be a NIGHTMARE!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: jrebel on January 21, 2022, 01:53:43 PM
Baker, "it needs a thorough evaluation to bring it back, but it doesn't take a thorough evaluation to take it away."  What's good for me is not good for you.  Two faced no good for nothing waste of oxygen using flesh.   :bash:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dwils233 on January 21, 2022, 01:53:49 PM
Couple thoughts folks:

It's apparent that baker and Smith are crying victimhood, bullying and insults as to why Koontz stepped down by their comments right now

I guarantee you that they and their anti-hunting proxies are watching what we say in this forum to build that argument. Be critical but responsible in what we say here and in other online  formats. Don't load their guns for them
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dwils233 on January 21, 2022, 01:55:53 PM
Baker and Smith both said, without directly saying, that when the commission vacancies are filled, that they will vote the same way as them. There was no doubt in their minds when they said it. The future is not looking bright and they know what Inslee is planning.

 :bash: :bash: :bash:

that's a key takeaway right now
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: frazierw on January 21, 2022, 01:57:11 PM
It aint gonna change....
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dreamingbig on January 21, 2022, 01:58:16 PM
Cmon LarryÖ blowing smoke man.  Once the commission is stacked 5-4 every season will be gone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: TriggerMike on January 21, 2022, 02:00:20 PM
Wow, Carpenter is an absolute idiot. Unbelievable. He's giving the antis an inch and apparently doesn't think that they'll take a mile. Someone needs to get ahold of this guys' bank statements from 2021... On someone's payroll  :twocents:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: idahohuntr on January 21, 2022, 02:04:52 PM
Looks like a petition will carry 4-3 to go to rulemaking...Baker's 'status quo leave the 4-4 vote in place' option was shot down.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dwils233 on January 21, 2022, 02:05:41 PM
Just remember, IF we win this battle the pivot will become a scorched earth campaign from the anti's. I want us to get the season back but if we do, it's only going to double their resolve and attacks

Buckle up
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: TriggerMike on January 21, 2022, 02:09:43 PM
This Thornberg lady is awesome. Objective and fair, people like her almost don't exist anymore.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dwils233 on January 21, 2022, 02:12:01 PM
This Thornberg lady is awesome. Objective and fair, people like her almost don't exist anymore.

And she doesn't hunt. She's just good at her job and takes it seriously
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: jrebel on January 21, 2022, 02:13:05 PM
Just remember, IF we win this battle the pivot will become a scorched earth campaign from the anti's. I want us to get the season back but if we do, it's only going to double their resolve and attacks

Buckle up

For the first time in my life as a hunter.....we as hunters have finally started banding together and fighting for a common goal.  Just maybe.....we can carry this further and combat any further battles that may or may not come of this vote.  I view this as a 100% positive thing.   :tup:

Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: TriggerMike on January 21, 2022, 02:14:43 PM
This Thornberg lady is awesome. Objective and fair, people like her almost don't exist anymore.

And she doesn't hunt. She's just good at her job and takes it seriously

Yep, that's why I wanted to make the point.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dreamingbig on January 21, 2022, 02:20:57 PM
To Smith - you caused the delay.  And we hear you, the two commissioners about to be appointed are antihunters.  Got it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: CJ1962 on January 21, 2022, 02:24:36 PM
I cant believe the gall of Lorna Smith she has the audacity to lecture the hunters listening.  How can someone be so out of touch!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dreamingbig on January 21, 2022, 02:28:43 PM
Baker and Smith both.

Get to work director!  6 weeks to get in done!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on January 21, 2022, 02:30:46 PM
What the heck is the run down.....
Just got home and loged in to the meeting and they just finished up.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Platensek-po on January 21, 2022, 02:31:39 PM
Well that went better than expected honestly. Larry needs to go. His reasoning and lack of conviction are flawed and he has exceeded his term limit. Thorn burn was great as was baker and mcisaac. Now to pay attention and push hard to
Fill the remaining commissioners seats with pro hunters and fishers. Thatís the next step in this fight. Whatís more if anyone wants to come forward with a nominee for eastern seat please do and letís get started on that ASAP. You just know Lorna is gunna be crying to inslee about this so letís get moving now as well.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: bowguy on January 21, 2022, 02:31:50 PM
Just remember, IF we win this battle the pivot will become a scorched earth campaign from the anti's. I want us to get the season back but if we do, it's only going to double their resolve and attacks

Buckle up

For the first time in my life as a hunter.....we as hunters have finally started banding together and fighting for a common goal.  Just maybe.....we can carry this further and combat any further battles that may or may not come of this vote.  I view this as a 100% positive thing.   :tup:


Wolves, and hound hunting next
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: pickardjw on January 21, 2022, 02:38:09 PM
So 5 of the petitions were thrown out as unlawful since they called for a re-vote if I understood that correctly. The win today was that the Meateater/Blood Origins/Inland Wildlife Council/etc petition would be considered. What exactly does that mean if that petition is not specifically calling for a re-vote? Is that petition document available to the public?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on January 21, 2022, 02:42:45 PM
Are they gonna revote or what.
Should I buy my hunting license or permit.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: ctwiggs1 on January 21, 2022, 02:44:32 PM
Well that went better than expected honestly. Larry needs to go. His reasoning and lack of conviction are flawed and he has exceeded his term limit. Thorn burn was great as was baker and mcisaac. Now to pay attention and push hard to
Fill the remaining commissioners seats with pro hunters and fishers. Thatís the next step in this fight. Whatís more if anyone wants to come forward with a nominee for eastern seat please do and letís get started on that ASAP. You just know Lorna is gunna be crying to inslee about this so letís get moving now as well.

You you going to push hard?  Inslee appoints them
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Wphunt on January 21, 2022, 02:45:47 PM
So 5 of the petitions were thrown out as unlawful since they called for a re-vote if I understood that correctly. The win today was that the Meateater/Blood Origins/Inland Wildlife Council/etc petition would be considered. What exactly does that mean if that petition is not specifically calling for a re-vote? Is that petition document available to the public?

They explain it pretty well on this podcast with Marie Neumiller from the INWWC. https://megaphone.link/WPCM6549762841
Basically it removes the loophole where the season has to pass by majority vote every year. If changes aren't passed by the commission things will go back to the previous years regulations. Won't do anything for 2022 but will keep this from happening down the road. That's how I understand it anyway.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Ghost Hunter on January 21, 2022, 02:57:31 PM
Are they gonna revote or what.
Should I buy my hunting license or permit.


If we have a spring season it will be late and short.  Have to start back at square one.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: jrebel on January 21, 2022, 03:01:32 PM
Are they gonna revote or what.
Should I buy my hunting license or permit.


If we have a spring season it will be late and short.  Have to start back at square one.

The best hunting is the last two weeks anyhow.  I hope it gets reinstated....I would buy a tag / permit for a chance to hunt the last two weeks. 
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on January 21, 2022, 03:02:37 PM
Well that went better than expected honestly. Larry needs to go. His reasoning and lack of conviction are flawed and he has exceeded his term limit. Thorn burn was great as was baker and mcisaac. Now to pay attention and push hard to
Fill the remaining commissioners seats with pro hunters and fishers. Thatís the next step in this fight. Whatís more if anyone wants to come forward with a nominee for eastern seat please do and letís get started on that ASAP. You just know Lorna is gunna be crying to inslee about this so letís get moving now as well.

You you going to push hard?  Inslee appoints them

Exactly, the thought that Inslee is going to stuff the commission with hunters and fishermen is fantasy.  Larry hosed us, but I can almost guarantee he will be better than whoever his replacement is.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on January 21, 2022, 03:03:26 PM
Are they gonna revote or what.
Should I buy my hunting license or permit.


If we have a spring season it will be late and short.  Have to start back at square one.
Thanks I'm gonna listen tomorrow,since I logged in to late today. I just finished the last meeting before this one.
Maybe next pay day I'll just buy my licences for the year and be ready.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dreamingbig on January 21, 2022, 03:07:53 PM
So 5 of the petitions were thrown out as unlawful since they called for a re-vote if I understood that correctly. The win today was that the Meateater/Blood Origins/Inland Wildlife Council/etc petition would be considered. What exactly does that mean if that petition is not specifically calling for a re-vote? Is that petition document available to the public?
Changing the WAC to remove year so that each year they arenít voting on a spring bear season but rather permit totals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Platensek-po on January 21, 2022, 03:08:24 PM
Well that went better than expected honestly. Larry needs to go. His reasoning and lack of conviction are flawed and he has exceeded his term limit. Thorn burn was great as was baker and mcisaac. Now to pay attention and push hard to
Fill the remaining commissioners seats with pro hunters and fishers. Thatís the next step in this fight. Whatís more if anyone wants to come forward with a nominee for eastern seat please do and letís get started on that ASAP. You just know Lorna is gunna be crying to inslee about this so letís get moving now as well.

You you going to push hard?  Inslee appoints them

Yes by showing overwhelming support and pushing for certain people to be considered over others. Or you can just sit back and do nothing about it but cry afterwards. Choice is yours.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: tyfghter on January 21, 2022, 03:19:18 PM
Is that petition document available to the public?

I got it from the meeting page, but this link should work. Its the 2nd or 3rd petition.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-01/Spring%20Bear%20Petitions%20-%20Allv2_0.pdf
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on January 21, 2022, 03:21:41 PM
So 5 of the petitions were thrown out as unlawful since they called for a re-vote if I understood that correctly. The win today was that the Meateater/Blood Origins/Inland Wildlife Council/etc petition would be considered. What exactly does that mean if that petition is not specifically calling for a re-vote? Is that petition document available to the public?
Changing the WAC to remove year so that each year they arenít voting on a spring bear season but rather permit totals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ya was thinking the same,this whole pile of turd started cause all they was doing was reducing a handful of permits.
Then spring bear WW3 broke out.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: pickardjw on January 21, 2022, 03:42:12 PM
Ahh so that's why it carried. Smart move by Inland/Meateat/et al. So the idea is, if this motion carries, the 2022 hunt is on and set to 2021 permit amounts. Moving forward, permit quotas would be the only thing they could change unless they went through all the proper procedures to remove the hunt entirely.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Shawn Ryan on January 21, 2022, 03:52:11 PM
Ahh so that's why it carried. Smart move by Inland/Meateat/et al. So the idea is, if this motion carries, the 2022 hunt is on and set to 2021 permit amounts. Moving forward, permit quotas would be the only thing they could change unless they went through all the proper procedures to remove the hunt entirely.

That is not accurate. We still do not have a 2022 spring bear season. We are just back to step 1 of creating a 2022 spring bear season. Both of McIsaac's motions passed. His second motion starts the rule making process to have a 2022 spring bear season.

And know that even if the year is removed from the WAC so that there is a presumptive spring bear season and the number of permits is the only issue, that number could be zero. This fight won't be over even if the WAC is amended to remove the year.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: pickardjw on January 21, 2022, 03:56:05 PM
Huh, guess I misunderstood that second motion then. Thought it was to change the timeline on when spring bear rulemaking occurred in the future. Which I guess the 2022 hunt is still future. Hard to read them the way they had them up on the screen there.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: KNOPHISH on January 21, 2022, 03:59:59 PM
Iíve been writing lots of letters lately. Who again confirms commissioners? Need to vote smith off the island and also I think carpenter? And who are the new ones dimslee nominated?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: jackelope on January 21, 2022, 04:12:01 PM
Just remember, IF we win this battle the pivot will become a scorched earth campaign from the anti's. I want us to get the season back but if we do, it's only going to double their resolve and attacks

Buckle up

For the first time in my life as a hunter.....we as hunters have finally started banding together and fighting for a common goal.  Just maybe.....we can carry this further and combat any further battles that may or may not come of this vote.  I view this as a 100% positive thing.   :tup:



Hail yassss
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: ctwiggs1 on January 21, 2022, 04:45:15 PM
Just remember, IF we win this battle the pivot will become a scorched earth campaign from the anti's. I want us to get the season back but if we do, it's only going to double their resolve and attacks

Buckle up

For the first time in my life as a hunter.....we as hunters have finally started banding together and fighting for a common goal.  Just maybe.....we can carry this further and combat any further battles that may or may not come of this vote.  I view this as a 100% positive thing.   :tup:



Hail yassss

Anyone who has been listening to the meetings knows the scorched earth campaign is already well established.

Great post about us all banding together.  Seems like most of the hunters I know sent in either a form letter or something of that nature.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Bullkllr on January 21, 2022, 05:01:46 PM
Just remember, IF we win this battle the pivot will become a scorched earth campaign from the anti's. I want us to get the season back but if we do, it's only going to double their resolve and attacks

Buckle up

For the first time in my life as a hunter.....we as hunters have finally started banding together and fighting for a common goal.  Just maybe.....we can carry this further and combat any further battles that may or may not come of this vote.  I view this as a 100% positive thing.   :tup:



Hail yassss

X1000
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Shawn Ryan on January 21, 2022, 05:07:54 PM
Huh, guess I misunderstood that second motion then. Thought it was to change the timeline on when spring bear rulemaking occurred in the future. Which I guess the 2022 hunt is still future. Hard to read them the way they had them up on the screen there.

No disrespect meant. Just wanted that issue to be clear. Our comment period is not over. We have to stay in this fight, especially over the next few weeks.

The Commission's report from today, with link to watch today's meeting:  https://wdfw.wa.gov/news/fish-and-wildlife-commission-authorizes-new-rule-making-spring-black-bear-special-permits
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on January 21, 2022, 05:16:50 PM
Iíve been writing lots of letters lately. Who again confirms commissioners? Need to vote smith off the island and also I think carpenter? And who are the new ones dimslee nominated?

The Senate natural resources comittie has to approve and bring them to a vote of the state senate.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: idahohuntr on January 21, 2022, 05:33:24 PM
Huh, guess I misunderstood that second motion then. Thought it was to change the timeline on when spring bear rulemaking occurred in the future. Which I guess the 2022 hunt is still future. Hard to read them the way they had them up on the screen there.

No disrespect meant. Just wanted that issue to be clear. Our comment period is not over. We have to stay in this fight, especially over the next few weeks.

The Commission's report from today, with link to watch today's meeting:  https://wdfw.wa.gov/news/fish-and-wildlife-commission-authorizes-new-rule-making-spring-black-bear-special-permits
We definitely still have to keep the pressure high.  Most likely there will be a vote in March to determine if a season will take place for 2022.  I believe continued messages to Commissioners and JT Austin (Gov Policy advisor) will remain important.  We need to especially pay attention to Commission appointments that could prove crucial for a March spring bear vote.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dreamingbig on January 21, 2022, 10:55:05 PM
Huh, guess I misunderstood that second motion then. Thought it was to change the timeline on when spring bear rulemaking occurred in the future. Which I guess the 2022 hunt is still future. Hard to read them the way they had them up on the screen there.

No disrespect meant. Just wanted that issue to be clear. Our comment period is not over. We have to stay in this fight, especially over the next few weeks.

The Commission's report from today, with link to watch today's meeting:  https://wdfw.wa.gov/news/fish-and-wildlife-commission-authorizes-new-rule-making-spring-black-bear-special-permits
We definitely still have to keep the pressure high.  Most likely there will be a vote in March to determine if a season will take place for 2022.  I believe continued messages to Commissioners and JT Austin (Gov Policy advisor) will remain important.  We need to especially pay attention to Commission appointments that could prove crucial for a March spring bear vote.
I really doubt we will have any ability to stop a commissioner from being confirmed.  The committee is carried by a democratic majority.

Lorna Smith anyone?  Fred Koontz?  Barbara Baker?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: X-Force on January 22, 2022, 10:22:42 AM
Smith isnít confirmed, we need to let the senate committee know that she isnít working in the best interest of WDFW or of wildlife in Washington.

We also need to keep pressure on the commission, keep emailing!

Itís ok if the season starts may 1 or may 10.

We donít want this kicked down the road where we have to start the season process over from the beginning.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dwils233 on January 22, 2022, 11:24:27 AM
Smith isnít confirmed, we need to let the senate committee know that she isnít working in the best interest of WDFW or of wildlife in Washington.

We also need to keep pressure on the commission, keep emailing!

Itís ok if the season starts may 1 or may 10.

We donít want this kicked down the road where we have to start the season process over from the beginning.
I agree and should clarify:
The message should be that Smith is not operating under the mandate of the commission per state rcw and then explain the mandate and offer an example. Give them actionable proof!
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Smossy on January 22, 2022, 11:32:07 AM
:(
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Rob on January 22, 2022, 12:18:39 PM
Help me understand what happened.

5 of 6 petitions were rejects due to technicalities, and the 6the one was considered.  The result of that was a 4/3 vote and a directive to start rule setting for a 2022 season.  Is that correct?

What does it mean to start rule setting?  Does that mean theee will be a season?  Or they need to propose rules that would need to be ratified by the commission?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on January 22, 2022, 12:48:12 PM
Help me understand what happened.

5 of 6 petitions were rejects due to technicalities, and the 6the one was considered.  The result of that was a 4/3 vote and a directive to start rule setting for a 2022 season.  Is that correct?

What does it mean to start rule setting?  Does that mean theee will be a season?  Or they need to propose rules that would need to be ratified by the commission?

According to the director in a zoom meaning a season is possible if everything goes perfect. If not then it would be next year.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Humptulips on January 22, 2022, 01:06:17 PM
They have to approve rule making so a proposed season can be published. Then they have to provide 30 days for public comments. Then the Commission can hear the proposed rules in a public meeting with time for comments. After all that they can vote on the proposal.
All part of requirements for public comment.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: harveymarv on January 22, 2022, 01:11:51 PM
ya my impression from the meeting conversation was that mcisaacís motion to approve the 1 petition, freed rule making for 2022 to proceed per the process: https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations

meaning another public comment battle in march. likely a battle before this battle to appoint anti-hunting commissioners to skew the vote back in favor of predators.

susewind said he thought it could get done in time for a season starting may 1 2022. olí lorna said she doubted it could get done in time, and we otter just wait for insleeís new appointees to skew the vote back in favor of cute baby bears that are ďshackledĒ to poor lethargic mama bears. baker implied hunters would eventually thank the commission for eliminating spring bear. carpenter sounds like a lost cause.

can anyone spell out specific steps to support appointments of specific pro-consumptive-conservationist commission candidates?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Special T on January 22, 2022, 10:21:25 PM
ya my impression from the meeting conversation was that mcisaacís motion to approve the 1 petition, freed rule making for 2022 to proceed per the process: https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations

meaning another public comment battle in march. likely a battle before this battle to appoint anti-hunting commissioners to skew the vote back in favor of predators.

susewind said he thought it could get done in time for a season starting may 1 2022. olí lorna said she doubted it could get done in time, and we otter just wait for insleeís new appointees to skew the vote back in favor of cute baby bears that are ďshackledĒ to poor lethargic mama bears. baker implied hunters would eventually thank the commission for eliminating spring bear. carpenter sounds like a lost cause.

can anyone spell out specific steps to support appointments of specific pro-consumptive-conservationist commission candidates?

Letters of support for Brian Blake and Rylan Weythman to the govenor. Only 2 I know of.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: harveymarv on January 23, 2022, 06:16:05 AM
thanks. iíll send letters of support for these 2 for the eastern washington and the at large positions via the online governor contact form:

https://www.governor.wa.gov/contact

iíll also send another letter to my senator asking that lorna smith not be confirmed - i think her vote happens in january sometime?
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: harveymarv on January 24, 2022, 06:48:02 AM
thanks. iíll send letters of support for these 2 for the eastern washington and the at large positions via the online governor contact form:

https://www.governor.wa.gov/contact

iíll also send another letter to my senator asking that lorna smith not be confirmed - i think her vote happens in january sometime?

another way to recommend Rylan Weythman and Brian Blake for the commission:

https://govforms.dynamics365portals.us/recommendation-form/

Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Tbar on January 24, 2022, 08:18:32 AM
Smith isnít confirmed, we need to let the senate committee know that she isnít working in the best interest of WDFW or of wildlife in Washington.

We also need to keep pressure on the commission, keep emailing!

Itís ok if the season starts may 1 or may 10.

We donít want this kicked down the road where we have to start the season process over from the beginning.
You do realize she is more than likely working in the interest of the chair and vice of that committee? Also confirmation is generally a low priority, this may change but in the past is gone years before sobering is confirmed.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: raydog on January 24, 2022, 01:26:27 PM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/3-new-wdfw-commissioners-named/

I donít feel like this is good news
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: ctwiggs1 on January 24, 2022, 01:39:33 PM
Inslee says "call"
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Ghost Hunter on January 24, 2022, 01:53:39 PM
Will be interesting to see where the Senate bills go.  Make it all a mute point.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Humptulips on January 24, 2022, 02:06:26 PM
Smith isnít confirmed, we need to let the senate committee know that she isnít working in the best interest of WDFW or of wildlife in Washington.

We also need to keep pressure on the commission, keep emailing!

Itís ok if the season starts may 1 or may 10.

We donít want this kicked down the road where we have to start the season process over from the beginning.
You do realize she is more than likely working in the interest of the chair and vice of that committee? Also confirmation is generally a low priority, this may change but in the past is gone years before sobering is confirmed.
:yeah:
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Stein on January 24, 2022, 02:32:12 PM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/3-new-wdfw-commissioners-named/

I donít feel like this is good news

Not if you like to fish.  You get a NOAA attorney and the retired executive director of an orca activist organization.  One the good side he wants to cull seals but the chinook belong to the residents (orcas unfortunately).

I don't know about the third, only thing I saw was a letter saying WDFW was wrong in opposing some development that would impact elk.  His position was it's a small herd and they'll be fine.  Totally anecdotal, just the first thing I saw other than his publications on underestimating the danger to spotted owls along with other stuff on flying squirrels, bushy-tailed wood rats and other fine creatures.  Sounds like he won't be in our back pocket.

Told you guys not to wish Inslee to break out the pen.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: KNOPHISH on January 24, 2022, 02:58:13 PM
Here are the contacts for Senate Natural Resource Committee.

Kevin.vandewege@leg.wa.gov
Jesse.salomon@leg.wa.gov
Judy.warnick@leg.wa.gov
Jim.honeyford@leg.wa.gov
Christine.rolfes@leg.wa.gov
Shelly.short@leg.wa.gov
Derek.Stanford@leg.wa.gov

Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: harveymarv on January 24, 2022, 03:21:37 PM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/3-new-wdfw-commissioners-named/

I donít feel like this is good news

i have a bad feeling about this. iím guessing the 4-3 vote to proceed with spring bear is going to a 5-4 vote not to adopt the rules in march. lehmkuhl is the only one i have any hope for.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: hunter399 on January 24, 2022, 09:49:06 PM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/3-new-wdfw-commissioners-named/

I donít feel like this is good news

i have a bad feeling about this. iím guessing the 4-3 vote to proceed with spring bear is going to a 5-4 vote not to adopt the rules in march. lehmkuhl is the only one i have any hope for.
Not looking good ,with new Commission members.
Just got done watching the last meeting.
Motion,to amend,this motion ,on top of this motion :chuckle: :chuckle:

Sounds like they better get busy. Then are these new guys are they on the Commission like RIGHT NOW.
I'm going to watch or attend the next meeting also.
Looked like the agenda has something to do with cougar and safety removals. Which is another hot topic for anti-hunters to try and stop.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Humptulips on January 25, 2022, 07:41:12 AM
I wanted to see Brian Blake get the spot but to be honest I thought the chances were slim. He is just too pro-sportsmen to fit in with Insley's agenda. On top of that I feel like the WA Democrat party kind of abandoned Brian in the last election. He didn't move left with the party.
I don't think a few people on here criticizing him had anything to do with him not being picked.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: KNOPHISH on January 25, 2022, 09:00:05 AM
They still need to be confirmed as does Smith so thereís a small chance.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: Humptulips on January 25, 2022, 09:35:31 AM
They still need to be confirmed as does Smith so thereís a small chance.
Well, no they actually don't because they can serve on an interim basis. Even if they go to Senate to be confirmed Van de Wege controls that Committee. He is an animal rights supporter. He can hold the Confirmation hearing if he has the votes to confirm or if he does not he can refuse to schedule it. Either way, they are in.
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: dreamingbig on January 25, 2022, 10:18:27 AM
They still need to be confirmed as does Smith so thereís a small chance.
That is like trying to climb a rope dipped in oil.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WDFW Spring Bear 2022 cancelled!
Post by: KNOPHISH on January 25, 2022, 10:41:07 AM
Yeah yer right, unconfirmed can still vote on the issues. I think the rule should be only confirmed can vote. Wonder if there is a timeline to get the confirm vote done in a RCW? Like there is for nominating new commissioners is I think 60 days for an open position, which head dimwit has failed on and now gets 3 at once.
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2022, SimplePortal