Hunting Washington Forum
Community => Advocacy, Agencies, Access => Topic started by: jackelope on December 06, 2021, 03:32:00 PM
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This was sent out a while back to the WWC. There was an article about it happening in the @Northwest Sportsman Magazine with a link to that article posted here by @Bushcraft. That thread yielded about 6-8 responses if I remember correctly. I'll share the emails from one of the pro-hunting commissioners to Mark Pidgeon, who is one of the directors of the WWC www.w4wc.org who sounded the alarm and put this info out there. I feel like we missed the opportunity to speak out like the anti's did.
With Mr. Pidgeon's permission, I'll share the emails and then the information.
Hello,
This may seem nerdy but it’s serious. It’s about an attempt to change the mandate and direction of the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife without going through a representative democratic process. Several F&W commissioners are proposing a “conservation” policy that would weaponize the word “conservation” for anti-consumptive preservationism. A draft policy was dropped without much advance opportunity to prepare for discussion (not that we really discuss anything at the commission, anyway) at the commission’s big tent committee last week. The draft, prepared by a couple of commissioners without other input, is the attached PDF document. The attached word document is my re-draft that I sent to the big tent committee members today. For now, this issue is before the big tent committee but the chair is anxious to move it along to adoption by the full commission.
If you concur that this is a concern, please help get the word out. The commission needs to hear from constituents other than radical anti-consumptive animal rightests who present the bulk of the public testimony in our meetings these days.
Thanks and take care, Kim
Kim Marie Thorburn, MD, MPH
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Hello,
I am forwarding an email from Commissioner Thornburn. I am extremely grateful that she sent this to me, as the radical commissioners want to change the direction of policy from conservation to anti-consumptive preservationism. Please read the message message from Commissioner Thornburn and get the word out to your user group. I have also sent this message to some elect officials as an FYI. Thank you very much.
Mark Pidgeon
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This was attached to the email in a pdf but I have no clue how to attach a pdf to a post and I assume that 75% of us won't open a pdf.
Read on. It's important.
Conservation: A Commission and Department Policy Guide
Policy number: C-700X
Effective date: MONTH X, 2021
Signed by: Larry Carpenter, Fish and Wildlife Commission Chair
The mandate of the Department of Fish and Wildlife is to preserve, protect and manage fish
and wildlife. Further, state law is clear that these resources are property of the state. We
believe that we, the commission, hold these resources in trust for both current and future
residents. The task of managing fish and wildlife is becoming increasingly difficult with the
amplified effects of climate change, increasing population and further fragmentation and loss
of habitat. Understanding that this task includes the important goal of ensuring access to
residents who wish to hunt, fish, recreate and simply enjoy this beautiful state if such actions
do not impair the resource, we find it necessary to set out, in policy, the guidance provided
by the recently adopted WDFW Strategic Plan.
For these reasons, the purpose of this policy is to establish an operational guide for the
Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission (Commission) and the Washington Department of
Fish and Wildlife (Department) to best preserve and protect our state's diverse fish and
wildlife resources by clarifying strategies for the Commission and Department’s conservation
decisions and actions.
The Commission recognizes that humankind is challenged by an accelerating loss of
biodiversity, globally and locally, both in terms of the growing number of endangered species
and the decreasing abundances of many animals and plants, even common ones. With
biodiversity loss is the simultaneous decline of its ecological and social benefits, ranging from
clean air and water, healthy soils and carbon storage to the many uses for sustainable
natural resources and recreational opportunities. Protecting biodiversity is essential because
in many ways it provides the foundation for our economy, health, prosperity and well-being.
Conservation at the Commission and Department
Our intent in this policy is to adopt an inclusive, up-to-date definition of conservation that
can guide the Department’s purpose, and work moving forward while incorporating the
diverse, relevant values of Washingtonians. We fully expect our definition to flexibly evolve in
time with new knowledge and experience.
Conservation: Science-informed actions to preserve the health and resiliency of natural
environments, safeguard the intrinsic values of non-human nature, and provide equitable
benefits to current and future generations of people and species. These actions include
protecting and restoring air, soil, water, biological diversity, ecosystem processes and
evolutionary potential.
Washington’s Wildlife Trust and Public Engagement
Natural resources, including fish, shellfish and wildlife, in Washington are held in trust
(wildlife trust) for current and future residents. The Commission and Department recognize
managing the conservation of that trust is dependent on both sound science and applying
shared values for the common good. To that end, public engagement with the Commission
and Department is sought to understand the current values of Washington residents, which
we believe is a key to our success in protecting Washington’s natural heritage and its public
wildlife trust for today and tomorrow. Thus, we commit to seek ample opportunities for public
input regarding Commission and Department programs, policies and decisions. We take the
role of Department Advisory Groups seriously and appreciate the importance of their
contribution.
Guidelines for Commission and Department Conservation
Being mindful of our challenging environmental context, definition of conservation, and deep
responsibility for safeguarding Washington’s public wildlife trust, the Commission sets the
following guiding principles and strategies for the Commission and Department:
1)Conservation first. Our top priority is the preservation of Washington’s native fish,
shellfish and wildlife for the benefit of all state residents and future generations. Successful
conservation is the foundation for providing sustainable recreational and commercial
opportunities, including hunting, fishing and wildlife recreation.
2)All species, habitats and ecosystems are important. Our work must strive to protect
all native fish and wildlife, even common species, because we understand the value of
preserving functional ecosystems. Species conservation is of primary importance, but so is
protecting the abundances of our biota; each living individual provides ecological benefit
toward ecosystem health.
3)Conservation complexity requires partnerships. Our work focuses on fish, shellfish
and wildlife, but a systems approach and strong coordination with all state natural resource
agencies and government jurisdictions is essential. Wildlife ignores state boundaries: we
should look toward increasing collaborations with our neighboring states and Canada. We
actively collaborate with our tribal co-managers to coordinate decisions for best management
options. We value and seek to increase our joint work with academia, business and nonprofit partners.
4)Take precautionary approaches in turbulent times. Climate change and rapid human
development (habitat loss) when coupled with a relatively limited understanding of the
working of ecosystems and mechanisms of long-term biodiversity health and resiliency -- and
considering our deep responsibility for future generations -- suggests taking more
precautionary approaches in coming months and years.
5)Bold, innovative leadership and solutions are necessary. Status quo wildlife
management has not kept pace with a rapidly changing world. Increasing occurrence of fire,
drought and warming water present new and serious challenges to our ability to achieve our
mandate. Our environmental context (health) is degrading, and as a result, conservation
priorities and values must shift. The Commission understands that innovative projects do not
always work; we must be willing to fail on occasion to succeed. We need to strengthen our
work in habitat/ecosystem protection, land connectivity, and expand our ability to restore
degraded lands and waters, both private and public.
6)Modern conservation requires an aligned vision, strategy and funding level. A
rapidly changing world that is threatening our living environment requires the Commission
and Department to adapt. The challenge is to continue both our traditional work and expand
our efforts to meet to many new conservation needs, required to meet our mandate to
protect the full diversity of Washington’s fish, shellfish and wildlife. The Commission and
Department must strengthen our communication to the public, legislature and Governor to
convince them of this needed additional support, needed partnerships and need for growth.
The foregoing conservation principles shall be incorporated by the Department of
Fish and Wildlife in the development and approval of the budget, planning and
decision-making processes.
@Bushcraft
@Hunter4Life
@bearpaw
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I've decided I'm spring bear hunting every year that this bs continues until it is corrected and aligns with conservation not the feelings of weak little bunny huggers, hell I think I'm gunna start foothold trapping again too F em!
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This effort needs to be stopped immediately, we need to get other user groups informed.
All consumptive activities from Logging to Ranching and Mining will be affected.
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I've decided I'm spring bear hunting every year that this bs continues until it is corrected and aligns with conservation not the feelings of weak little bunny huggers, hell I think I'm gunna start foothold trapping again too F em!
Roger that......don't ask, don't tell.
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This was drafted by the radical new animal-rights umbrella organization Washington Wildlife First. This is the most serious threat to hunting we have EVER faced in this state. If passes we would need to raise a TON, and I mean a TON of money and challenge it court because it violates the legislative mandate. If this passes, it is game over for hunting in this state, it is preservationism, not conservation. This is no *censored* scare tactics, this is the real deal. We don't want to depend on a judge for our fate.
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Saying you’re going to poach isn’t going to help our cause.
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All we do as a user group is give money, time, effort, ect. more than all user groups combined and all we get is screwed
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This state is done...time to move on. Larry used to be a champion for sports fishing and the outdoors, now he is bought and paid for by the radical nuts of the Wild Fish Conservancy and the remaining tree huggers. 6 months and counting until I am outta here.....
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Saying you’re going to poach isn’t going to help our cause.
:yeah: Although I am going to target bear for the first time in almost a decade this year and do my best to fill both tags in honor of commissioner Smith
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Saying youre going to poach isnt going to help our cause.
Is it poaching? I mean I've been legally doing it my entire life and now that the f&g decides the feelings of the snowflake woke bitch a$$ hippies who buy the meat they eat wrapped in plastic on a styrofoam trey are more important than scientific based game management plans and now I'm the one in the wrong? Like I said F em!
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Saying you’re going to poach isn’t going to help our cause.
Is it poaching? I mean I've been legally doing it my entire life and now that the f&g decides the feelings of the snowflake woke bitch a$$ hippies who buy the meat they eat wrapped in plastic on a styrofoam trey are more important than scientific based game management plans and now I'm the one in the wrong? Like I said F em!
:yeah:agree!
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Is it the reason we lost spring bear? No but it is the next major step to taking over the department
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This effort needs to be stopped immediately, we need to get other user groups informed.
All consumptive activities from Logging to Ranching and Mining will be affected.
They have already taken the mining portion of your post, made it so you have to get a Special permit to do any form of instream prospecting and it's easier to see God Almighty than get a dredging Permit.
As much as I detest the MSM articles showing Commioners ties to organizations and persons that were/ are eco terrorist.
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Saying you’re going to poach isn’t going to help our cause.
:yeah:
Totally understand the frustration, but it will be easy for opponents to dismiss all hunters if they can effectively attribute such comments (or actions) to the large group of people who oppose this decision and the appointments of Smith and Koontz.
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This makes me physically nauseous.
Totally agree with saylean and idahohuntr
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Flame this out all you want but I'm gonna say it...we as hunters are our own worst enemies. How many posts on here rag on hunters who kill does legally ? Or shoot spike deer in an any buck unit and people bitch about it. Or bitch about how good it used to be and now everything sucks...or how bow hunters/muzzy hunters/modern hunters are ruining for the rest of "us". If it's legal to do so don't judge others for doing it. Stop dividing us. Start embracing people who get off their asses and buy the licenses/permits (including out of state hunters). Hunting is conservation and embrace those who are willing to try and make a difference rather than proclaiming poaching is the way of the future. We as hunters have enough factors against us without all the infighting. Sorry for the rant but my God enough of being pissed off at those of us doing it legally
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They are certainly going for the whole enchilada, sound like they want to completely change current management, very alarming!
This needs to be fought like it's our last chance!
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This state is done...time to move on. Larry used to be a champion for sports fishing and the outdoors, now he is bought and paid for by the radical nuts of the Wild Fish Conservancy and the remaining tree huggers. 6 months and counting until I am outta here.....
Carpenter is Judas, he is the reason we lost the spring bear season. End of story. This summed it up perfectly. The only question was going to be whether the vote was 4 -4, or 3 - 5 against us. Carpenter knew he was voting no, there was question at about it. The only Commissioner who there was a question about was Molly Linville, and she voted with the good guys. Carpenter is totally with the ARs. All the excuses he gave on why he voted no don't hold a bit of water.
"A temporary pause to make a stronger case for spring bear later."
"Afraid of a lawsuit."
Come on Larry! The science was rock solid for spring bear now. The animal-rights groups filed a lawsuit on spring bear in 2021 and you voted yes for spring bear. Do you think waiting will lessen the animal-rights chances of filing a lawsuit?! Dream on Quisling! The animal-rights community motto is we have sued yesterday, we are suing today, and we will in the future. We sue in the North, we sue in the South, we sue in the East, and we sue in the West. We sue in the Mountains and we sue in the Valleys. The animal-rights groups sue here, they sue there, they sue everywhere.
Larry Carpenter, you are so full of dung, it's pathetic. We see through your lame excuses!
I hope you enjoy those 30 pieces of silver Judas and you can sleep with a clear conscience.
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This effort needs to be stopped immediately, we need to get other user groups informed.
All consumptive activities from Logging to Ranching and Mining will be affected.
:yeah:
TRUTH!!!!
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Flame this out all you want but I'm gonna say it...we as hunters are our own worst enemies. How many posts on here rag on hunters who kill does legally ? Or shoot spike deer in an any buck unit and people bitch about it. Or bitch about how good it used to be and now everything sucks...or how bow hunters/muzzy hunters/modern hunters are ruining for the rest of "us". If it's legal to do so don't judge others for doing it. Stop dividing us. Start embracing people who get off their asses and buy the licenses/permits (including out of state hunters). Hunting is conservation and embrace those who are willing to try and make a difference rather than proclaiming poaching is the way of the future. We as hunters have enough factors against us without all the infighting. Sorry for the rant but my God enough of being pissed off at those of us doing it legally
this is very true, prime example was bear baiting and hound hunting when it went up for vote in Washington in the 90’s. There were actual hunters that voted for the ban. That was a foothold and it’s only going downhill from there!
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They are certainly going for the whole enchilada, sound like they want to completely change current management, very alarming!
This needs to be fought like it's our last chance!
Very true Bearpaw. In Oregon, they have Ip13 to ban hunting and fishing, in Washington the animal-rights folks think they can save they money on an initiative campaign and do it through the Commission. That's why Washington Wildlife First was formed.
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Changing the definition of words is a scary deal. This state might be done.
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Ya ,I agree that conservation is what the definition is.
With that said.
Many factors come into play with this spring bear closure.
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For me, it's not too late to start being an active participant in working to save hunting.
I've been a 'once in awhile I'll do something' person and I know I can do better and do more.
For all the splinter groups, and enemies wearing sheeps clothing amongst the hunting groups, for all the reasons and excuses why things didn't work out in the past, it doesn't change the fact that I can do more to help hunting.
So I will.
When future generations look to me and ask if I did all I could to help save hunting, I want to say that I did all that I was capable of.
Over the last few weeks I've joined a couple pro hunting groups I previously did not belong to, I set a up small recurring monthly donation to a pro hunting organization, I purchased memberships to a couple pro hunting organizations, I wrote some emails to those who make the decisions at the Government level letting them know the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is worth saving from the attacks of the anti hunting forces.
I learned how to share and spread the online messages of pro hunting organizations to further get the word out to those who are in favor of supporting us.
I choose to be in the asset column of Hunting Conservation.
I hope others will do the same.
I
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This state is done...time to move on. Larry used to be a champion for sports fishing and the outdoors, now he is bought and paid for by the radical nuts of the Wild Fish Conservancy and the remaining tree huggers. 6 months and counting until I am outta here.....
Carpenter is Judas, he is the reason we lost the spring bear season. End of story. This summed it up perfectly. The only question was going to be whether the vote was 4 -4, or 3 - 5 against us. Carpenter knew he was voting no, there was question at about it. The only Commissioner who there was a question about was Molly Linville, and she voted with the good guys. Carpenter is totally with the ARs. All the excuses he gave on why he voted no don't hold a bit of water.
"A temporary pause to make a stronger case for spring bear later."
"Afraid of a lawsuit."
Come on Larry! The science was rock solid for spring bear now. The animal-rights groups filed a lawsuit on spring bear in 2021 and you voted yes for spring bear. Do you think waiting will lessen the animal-rights chances of filing a lawsuit?! Dream on Quisling! The animal-rights community motto is we have sued yesterday, we are suing today, and we will in the future. We sue in the North, we sue in the South, we sue in the East, and we sue in the West. We sue in the Mountains and we sue in the Valleys. The animal-rights groups sue here, they sue there, they sue everywhere.
Larry Carpenter, you are so full of dung, it's pathetic. We see through your lame excuses!
I hope you enjoy those 30 pieces of silver Judas and you can sleep with a clear conscience.
Pretty well sums it up!
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I’m with Lewey F-em they take and they take and our crappy commission is a laughing brood of hen peckers with not a set of balls or common sense among them . As a hunter and trapper this state is disgusting for what’s happening, what happened to basing off science? Oh wait it’s another cancel culture so piss on them
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Nothing they do is science based. They don't listen to the Biologists (not that they are up front), its all about public opinion and we are in a losing battle there.
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Rules and laws are only for the right :dunno:
The left breaks them all the time. Antifa assaults, no big deal. Trying to burn police departments down with LEOs inside, that's okay. Smash & grab, people will do what they do. CHAZ/CHOP, nothing to see here folks. It never ends.
Some people talk about SSS to protect our herds, or simply hunting predators and oh no, you can't do that! Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying...
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Rules and laws are only for the right :dunno:
The left breaks them all the time. Antifa assaults, no big deal. Trying to burn police departments down with LEOs inside, that's okay. Smash & grab, people will do what they do. CHAZ/CHOP, nothing to see here folks. It never ends.
Some people talk about SSS to protect our herds, or simply hunting predators and oh no, you can't do that! Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying...
bingo
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Nothing they do is science based. They don't listen to the Biologists (not that they are up front), its all about public opinion and we are in a losing battle there.
No they DO listen to the biologists. Problem is they are all anti’s. Even the deer and elk bios want to protect predators. The deer and elk bio over here has wolf tats and is married to the head wolf bio. Chit is corrupt.
Liberal colleges have been producing liberal biologist for too long.
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For me, it's not too late to start being an active participant in working to save hunting.
I've been a 'once in awhile I'll do something' person and I know I can do better and do more.
For all the splinter groups, and enemies wearing sheeps clothing amongst the hunting groups, for all the reasons and excuses why things didn't work out in the past, it doesn't change the fact that I can do more to help hunting.
So I will.
When future generations look to me and ask if I did all I could to help save hunting, I want to say that I did all that I was capable of.
Over the last few weeks I've joined a couple pro hunting groups I previously did not belong to, I set a up small recurring monthly donation to a pro hunting organization, I purchased memberships to a couple pro hunting organizations, I wrote some emails to those who make the decisions at the Government level letting them know the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is worth saving from the attacks of the anti hunting forces.
I learned how to share and spread the online messages of pro hunting organizations to further get the word out to those who are in favor of supporting us.
I choose to be in the asset column of Hunting Conservation.
I hope others will do the same.
I
If you have a minute would you post the group you are donating to?
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Ya ,I agree that conservation is what the definition is.
With that said.
Many factors come into play with this spring bear closure.
When you change the definition of words you have a much bigger deeper agenda. Spring Bear hunting is just the beginning! They are playing chess and we are playing checker's. They have been playing the long game for a long time and now they are winning.
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Ya ,I agree that conservation is what the definition is.
With that said.
Many factors come into play with this spring bear closure.
When you change the definition of words you have a much bigger deeper agenda. Spring Bear hunting is just the beginning! They are playing chess and we are playing checker's. They have been playing the long game for a long time and now they are winning.
The same people you see ruining our country are the same ones involved in taking away our hunting. Postmodernists - trained and educated by liberal activism institutions. Postmodernists are in a constant push to change the meaning of words and skew language to their favor.
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Ya ,I agree that conservation is what the definition is.
With that said.
Many factors come into play with this spring bear closure.
When you change the definition of words you have a much bigger deeper agenda. Spring Bear hunting is just the beginning! They are playing chess and we are playing checker's. They have been playing the long game for a long time and now they are winning.
The same people you see ruining our country are the same ones involved in taking away our hunting. Postmodernists - trained and educated by liberal activism institutions. Postmodernists are in a constant push to change the meaning of words and skew language to their favor.
I'll be a little more real ....
Conservation is the webster dictionary definition says it is.
End of story.
This isn't like the 200 different transgender we have now.
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Ya ,I agree that conservation is what the definition is.
With that said.
Many factors come into play with this spring bear closure.
When you change the definition of words you have a much bigger deeper agenda. Spring Bear hunting is just the beginning! They are playing chess and we are playing checker's. They have been playing the long game for a long time and now they are winning.
The same people you see ruining our country are the same ones involved in taking away our hunting. Postmodernists - trained and educated by liberal activism institutions. Postmodernists are in a constant push to change the meaning of words and skew language to their favor.
You are 100% correct...unfortunately. I hate to be "that" guy. I typically shy away from an alarmist/conspiracy mindset but these folks aren't even covert anymore. They are telling you, very overtly, what their intentions are. It's being played out on decision by decision basis in may different arenas.
I am deeply involved in 3 things...my business (financial services), hunting/fishing and high school football. I am seeing these issues playout in the exact same way by the same player's in everything I care about.
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Posting your intension of poaching, or any crime, on the internet is not suggested. I believe it also violates forum policy. I'm not disagreeing with your sentiments. I'm questioning the visual impact this has on non-hunters regarding our privileges and heritage, and the effect it'll have on you if/when you're caught by LE down the road.
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Internal squabbles over shooting dinks, bears, hunting with dogs or other old as the day is irrelevant. The opposition doesn't want any animal shot, ever. They will take any incremental reduction in hunting they can create. They don't care about our internal debates because ultimately, hunters are a slim slice of the public at large. In a liberal state with no competition for governing, the only hope is that people who don't hunt can be convinced that hunting is a legacy and tradition with real value and it's preservation is sensible. So much so that they'd consider it when they vote. Our choir is way too small and it's bickering isn't causing or worsening the problem.
Picking on bears is easy. I think it's because most non hunters don't believe we eat them, just kill them. They don't believe they are the same as deer/elk with respect to a food source. They see it as "trophy" hunting, senseless killing without redeeming merit. Of course that's wrong, but they don't know it. Go ask a non hunter if they've ever eaten bear and you are likely to hear, "can you eat bear? Yuck." Of course the ancillary benefit of protecting predators is the reduction in hunting quality and through time, hunters.
Hunters have no specific codified rights in WA. We are governed by the left, by preservationists, not conservationists. Governed by anti hunters and anti 2nd amendment folks. Our issues aren't even publicly known because it's not in the media. The media is an extension of the above. Without broad public support from those that do not hunt, we are moving gradually toward zero. If you live in a city on the west side, ask someone in the grocery line what they think of spring bear being closed. You'll get a blank ass stare and a "I'm sorry, what?" That's why they know they can get away with it.
The only real chance I see is hunters getting a purely hunting rights org and leveraging all the manufacturers of equipment used in hunting to fund real lobbying. And by that, I mean funding campaigns for their opponents in competitive districts. Elected persons only care about not being elected again. Appointed members only have to account to the person who appointed them.
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Posting your intension of poaching, or any crime, on the internet is not suggested. I believe it also violates forum policy. I'm not disagreeing with your sentiments. I'm questioning the visual impact this has on non-hunters regarding our privileges and heritage, and the effect it'll have on you if/when you're caught by LE down the road.
then ban me from the forum
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Are there any news articles on this?
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Posting your intension of poaching, or any crime, on the internet is not suggested. I believe it also violates forum policy. I'm not disagreeing with your sentiments. I'm questioning the visual impact this has on non-hunters regarding our privileges and heritage, and the effect it'll have on you if/when you're caught by LE down the road.
then ban me from the forum
Take it easy fella. Just a friendly suggestion not to incriminate yourself. Not everyone is your enemy.
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Dori Monson and tom nelson on live at 1pm
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Dori Monson and tom nelson on live at 1pm
:yeah:
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Fastest 15 on now...i believe it's after. Tuned in at work.
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Live at 1:30, 97.3 Fm is what I heard?? Commisioner live. Listener call in number! (888) 973-5476
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Or was it 1??? Facebook says 1:30
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1:30
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Internal squabbles over shooting dinks, bears, hunting with dogs or other old as the day is irrelevant. The opposition doesn't want any animal shot, ever. They will take any incremental reduction in hunting they can create. They don't care about our internal debates because ultimately, hunters are a slim slice of the public at large. In a liberal state with no competition for governing, the only hope is that people who don't hunt can be convinced that hunting is a legacy and tradition with real value and it's preservation is sensible. So much so that they'd consider it when they vote. Our choir is way too small and it's bickering isn't causing or worsening the problem.
Picking on bears is easy. I think it's because most non hunters don't believe we eat them, just kill them. They don't believe they are the same as deer/elk with respect to a food source. They see it as "trophy" hunting, senseless killing without redeeming merit. Of course that's wrong, but they don't know it. Go ask a non hunter if they've ever eaten bear and you are likely to hear, "can you eat bear? Yuck." Of course the ancillary benefit of protecting predators is the reduction in hunting quality and through time, hunters.
Hunters have no specific codified rights in WA. We are governed by the left, by preservationists, not conservationists. Governed by anti hunters and anti 2nd amendment folks. Our issues aren't even publicly known because it's not in the media. The media is an extension of the above. Without broad public support from those that do not hunt, we are moving gradually toward zero. If you live in a city on the west side, ask someone in the grocery line what they think of spring bear being closed. You'll get a blank ass stare and a "I'm sorry, what?" That's why they know they can get away with it.
The only real chance I see is hunters getting a purely hunting rights org and leveraging all the manufacturers of equipment used in hunting to fund real lobbying.
And by that, I mean funding campaigns for their opponents in competitive districts. Elected persons only care about not being elected again. Appointed members only have to account to the person who appointed them.
The Hunters Heritage Council has been around since 1999, and we are the only hunting-rights organization in Washington and we have been a damn effective one. We have a fully-time lobbyist in Olympia and in our 23 years of existence we have killed every piece of anti-hunting legislation that was introduced. I will match that record versus any lobby organization. We have had a few offensive pieces of legislation including the cougar pilot program and have had our hands in drafting most of the hunting advisory legislation. When it comes to hunting matters, legislators comes to us for our expertise. We are the only organization the endorses candidates and does electioneering for pro-hunting candidates and against anti-hunting incumbents. You did sum it up, work in competitive districts. We works with closely the house and senate caucuses and are friends with leadership and have the only pro-hunting PAC in the state, the Hunters Heritage Council PAC. I consult with leadership on a consistent basis. They want to work with the hunting community.
Here lies the problem leveraging all the manufacturers of equipment used in hunting to fund real lobbying
Why have we lost all the gun control initiatives? It wasn't because of the NRA. It was because billionaires on the Left out-funded us 10-1 to 15-1. The NRA can't pump that kind of money into one state, nor do they have that kind of money to do it. Look at the PDC reports. Not one gun manufacturer spent one red cent to help us. The big money, the trade industry, the NSSF, did nothing to aid in the fight to level in the playing field. If the trade industry would have pumped money in, we could have easily leveled the playing field, or easily surpassed the anti-gun forces with the profits made by the gun manufacturers made from the Obama years. The NSSF coffers are overflowing with money. They fund Hunting Works for Washington, Hunting Works for America, Hunting Works for whatever state to show the economic impact of hunting and what hunters do for conservation. I am one of the State Co-Chairs of Hunting Works. The real purpose of this is to make sure a lead ammo ban never passes. The NSSF is loaded, yet not one penny aided us in any initiative fight.
When WWC brought in Shane Mahoney to the Wolf Advisory Group for the pro-hunting side, I got to talk to Shane. One thing Shane said, was that in this fight, we will always be on the short end because hunting manufacturers are cheap and will never contribute. Every WDFW Advisory Group meeting you do to the animal-rights people are paid staff, we are volunteers. The coffers are enriched by lawsuits. They have lawyers like Washington Wildlife First with deep pockets. Has anyone read the book the Real Wolf by Ted Lyon? Best book even written on the wolf fight. He said the anti's have never passed a piece of legislation through Congress, they won all their battles through the courts and bureaucracy. How do we get these cheapskates to contribute when they never before?
I am proud of the success of what we do with the money we do raise, 86% of our candidates do win and our endorsements are highly sought after by challengers and incumbents alike. We have been around and we are known. The problem is the green.
And BTW hunters DO have some specific codified rights
RCW 77.04.012
Mandate of department and commission.
The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
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On now...
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Pretty brief but good to hear Tom N being vocal.
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Fricken customers kept me from listening, any spring bear talk??
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Nope. Very basic, some quotes and calling attention to the fact that antis have been placed in positions of power by lord inslee.
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No spring bear talk. Basically saying because of the 2 commissioners personal predator advocacy they choose to make decisions for Washington’s wildlife based on “social” acceptance rather than science based hard numbers.
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Looks like I know where my company matched holiday donation is going! To the HHC.
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I’m not an expert on advocacy groups, but isn’t stuff like this exactly what the Sportsman’s Alliance specializes in? Does anyone know if they have been contacted on this or if they are on board to help?
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Hello highcountry_hunter
Sportsmans Alliance was referenced today on the District of Conservation Podcast which featured guests Doug Boze and Joe Kondelis.
If you have not had a chance to listen to the podcast you can refer to
EP 234: Washington State isn't Following the Science of Black Bear Management (ft. Douglas Boze & Joe Kondelis)
It is a good listen.
And.. there are people taking action out there.
Let's all join them to save Hunting.
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Hello highcountry_hunter
Sportsmans Alliance was referenced today on the District of Conservation Podcast which featured guests Doug Boze and Joe Kondelis.
If you have not had a chance to listen to the podcast you can refer to
EP 234: Washington State isn't Following the Science of Black Bear Management (ft. Douglas Boze & Joe Kondelis)
It is a good listen.
And.. there are people taking action out there.
Let's all join them to save Hunting.
I’ll definitely listen tomorrow at work. What’s the name of the podcast again? PNW…?
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Hello highcountry_hunter
Sportsmans Alliance was referenced today on the District of Conservation Podcast which featured guests Doug Boze and Joe Kondelis.
If you have not had a chance to listen to the podcast you can refer to
EP 234: Washington State isn't Following the Science of Black Bear Management (ft. Douglas Boze & Joe Kondelis)
It is a good listen.
And.. there are people taking action out there.
Let's all join them to save Hunting.
Link?
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Internal squabbles over shooting dinks, bears, hunting with dogs or other old as the day is irrelevant. The opposition doesn't want any animal shot, ever. They will take any incremental reduction in hunting they can create. They don't care about our internal debates because ultimately, hunters are a slim slice of the public at large. In a liberal state with no competition for governing, the only hope is that people who don't hunt can be convinced that hunting is a legacy and tradition with real value and it's preservation is sensible. So much so that they'd consider it when they vote. Our choir is way too small and it's bickering isn't causing or worsening the problem.
Picking on bears is easy. I think it's because most non hunters don't believe we eat them, just kill them. They don't believe they are the same as deer/elk with respect to a food source. They see it as "trophy" hunting, senseless killing without redeeming merit. Of course that's wrong, but they don't know it. Go ask a non hunter if they've ever eaten bear and you are likely to hear, "can you eat bear? Yuck." Of course the ancillary benefit of protecting predators is the reduction in hunting quality and through time, hunters.
Hunters have no specific codified rights in WA. We are governed by the left, by preservationists, not conservationists. Governed by anti hunters and anti 2nd amendment folks. Our issues aren't even publicly known because it's not in the media. The media is an extension of the above. Without broad public support from those that do not hunt, we are moving gradually toward zero. If you live in a city on the west side, ask someone in the grocery line what they think of spring bear being closed. You'll get a blank ass stare and a "I'm sorry, what?" That's why they know they can get away with it.
The only real chance I see is hunters getting a purely hunting rights org and leveraging all the manufacturers of equipment used in hunting to fund real lobbying.
And by that, I mean funding campaigns for their opponents in competitive districts. Elected persons only care about not being elected again. Appointed members only have to account to the person who appointed them.
The Hunters Heritage Council has been around since 1999, and we are the only hunting-rights organization in Washington and we have been a damn effective one. We have a fully-time lobbyist in Olympia and in our 23 years of existence we have killed every piece of anti-hunting legislation that was introduced. I will match that record versus any lobby organization. We have had a few offensive pieces of legislation including the cougar pilot program and have had our hands in drafting most of the hunting advisory legislation. When it comes to hunting matters, legislators comes to us for our expertise. We are the only organization the endorses candidates and does electioneering for pro-hunting candidates and against anti-hunting incumbents. You did sum it up, work in competitive districts. We works with closely the house and senate caucuses and are friends with leadership and have the only pro-hunting PAC in the state, the Hunters Heritage Council PAC. I consult with leadership on a consistent basis. They want to work with the hunting community.
Here lies the problem leveraging all the manufacturers of equipment used in hunting to fund real lobbying
Why have we lost all the gun control initiatives? It wasn't because of the NRA. It was because billionaires on the Left out-funded us 10-1 to 15-1. The NRA can't pump that kind of money into one state, nor do they have that kind of money to do it. Look at the PDC reports. Not one gun manufacturer spent one red cent to help us. The big money, the trade industry, the NSSF, did nothing to aid in the fight to level in the playing field. If the trade industry would have pumped money in, we could have easily leveled the playing field, or easily surpassed the anti-gun forces with the profits made by the gun manufacturers made from the Obama years. The NSSF coffers are overflowing with money. They fund Hunting Works for Washington, Hunting Works for America, Hunting Works for whatever state to show the economic impact of hunting and what hunters do for conservation. I am one of the State Co-Chairs of Hunting Works. The real purpose of this is to make sure a lead ammo ban never passes. The NSSF is loaded, yet not one penny aided us in any initiative fight.
When WWC brought in Shane Mahoney to the Wolf Advisory Group for the pro-hunting side, I got to talk to Shane. One thing Shane said, was that in this fight, we will always be on the short end because hunting manufacturers are cheap and will never contribute. Every WDFW Advisory Group meeting you do to the animal-rights people are paid staff, we are volunteers. The coffers are enriched by lawsuits. They have lawyers like Washington Wildlife First with deep pockets. Has anyone read the book the Real Wolf by Ted Lyon? Best book even written on the wolf fight. He said the anti's have never passed a piece of legislation through Congress, they won all their battles through the courts and bureaucracy. How do we get these cheapskates to contribute when they never before?
I am proud of the success of what we do with the money we do raise, 86% of our candidates do win and our endorsements are highly sought after by challengers and incumbents alike. We have been around and we are known. The problem is the green.
And BTW hunters DO have some specific codified rights
RCW 77.04.012
Mandate of department and commission.
The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
How have I been a hunter in WA for two and a half decades and never heard of this organization (HHC) until now? I'm not overly active when it comes to hunting related politics but I'd say I'm more involved than the average hunter. A common problem I see among sportsman related orgs is they assume everybody knows about them and don't truly do enough to get the word out about themselves and their mission. I would gladly donate more to the right organizations and causes if I could see that they were actually having a net positive impact
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Hello highcountry_hunter
Sportsmans Alliance was referenced today on the District of Conservation Podcast which featured guests Doug Boze and Joe Kondelis.
If you have not had a chance to listen to the podcast you can refer to
EP 234: Washington State isn't Following the Science of Black Bear Management (ft. Douglas Boze & Joe Kondelis)
It is a good listen.
And.. there are people taking action out there.
Let's all join them to save Hunting.
What’s the name of the podcast? I understand which episode
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Name of the podcast is:
"District of Conservation"
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Why are there so many of you guys who still support this State by spending hundreds of dollars on nearly every tag, license and drawing available? I reduced my WA license purchases from the whole gambit to just one deer tag in the past couple of years; and that was primarily just so that I could participate with a new youth hunter who is just learning the ropes.
I know everyone still wants to get their hunting fix; I've found I can easily do that and greatly reduce my contribution to the State of Washington. They are not on our side, stop fooling yourselves.
Just say NO to the WDFW.
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I think you have the wrong attitude. With a reduction in the number of hunters will only lead to a decrease and eventual end to hunting here.
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I think you have the wrong attitude. With a reduction in the number of hunters will only lead to a decrease and eventual end to hunting here.
:yeah:
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I think you have the wrong attitude. With a reduction in the number of hunters will only lead to a decrease and eventual end to hunting here.
He's taking youth out while starving the beast, that's not a reduction of hunters, just a reduction in revenue
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Ya ,I agree that conservation is what the definition is.
With that said.
Many factors come into play with this spring bear closure.
When you change the definition of words you have a much bigger deeper agenda. Spring Bear hunting is just the beginning! They are playing chess and we are playing checker's. They have been playing the long game for a long time and now they are winning.
This is a fact. Most accurate thing said on this topic. Look at their websites/data/funding etc. They are playing in the Majors, we are playing PeeWee league. Need to figure out a better gameplan and get on the same page.
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I hunt here because I can't afford to hunt out of state. For the cost of one or two out of state hunts, I can hunt and fish year round in WA.
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Why are there so many of you guys who still support this State by spending hundreds of dollars on nearly every tag, license and drawing available? I reduced my WA license purchases from the whole gambit to just one deer tag in the past couple of years; and that was primarily just so that I could participate with a new youth hunter who is just learning the ropes.
I know everyone still wants to get their hunting fix; I've found I can easily do that and greatly reduce my contribution to the State of Washington. They are not on our side, stop fooling yourselves.
Just say NO to the WDFW.
Because I love to hunt. Because I work 80+ hour weeks and have a family which means I have no time to be driving 8 hours to scout all summer. If I wasn’t scouting within an hour of my house I wouldn’t have any time to scout period.
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Why are there so many of you guys who still support this State by spending hundreds of dollars on nearly every tag, license and drawing available? I reduced my WA license purchases from the whole gambit to just one deer tag in the past couple of years; and that was primarily just so that I could participate with a new youth hunter who is just learning the ropes.
I know everyone still wants to get their hunting fix; I've found I can easily do that and greatly reduce my contribution to the State of Washington. They are not on our side, stop fooling yourselves.
Just say NO to the WDFW.
A lot of guys who have a passion for hunting don't have the time or money to hunt elsewhere. Buying tags, applying for tags, OIL hunts can be done fairly reasonably for residents, less than the cost of one out of state elk or deer tag. I wouldn't be too hard on people doing what they can to find great opportunities at home. :dunno:
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Jackalope,
Would you be so kind as to repost your information on the Washington Guns & Ammo Forum on facebook?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/633317111370796
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Why are there so many of you guys who still support this State by spending hundreds of dollars on nearly every tag, license and drawing available? I reduced my WA license purchases from the whole gambit to just one deer tag in the past couple of years; and that was primarily just so that I could participate with a new youth hunter who is just learning the ropes.
I know everyone still wants to get their hunting fix; I've found I can easily do that and greatly reduce my contribution to the State of Washington. They are not on our side, stop fooling yourselves.
Just say NO to the WDFW.
You'd be surprised to know how many in the WDFW that ARE on our side. There are numerous employees, biologists, wardens, hatchery workers, etc, that are on our side. It's the fish and wildlife commission and the top legislature in this state that are showing their hands that they are NOT on our side.
Like others have said. I can't afford to hunt elsewhere. I have hunted out of state 1 time because Idaho offers a generous cash break on Non-resident DAV tags. Now even that is pretty much a non-option. I love to hunt and fish, and I love my home state of WA dearly. I hate what has become of this state and what is becoming of the WDFW. But, I won't sit back and claim i'm strangling them by cutting off funds to keep doing what I love. I'll continue to hunt and fish in this state, and continue to fight legislation, and the antics of the F&W commission. I fully support the good that is still in the WDFW.
Maybe I'm just weird, and I don't care if people think I am. But cutting off your own nose to spite your face, isn't gonna solve anything.
Gary