Hunting Washington Forum
Community => Advocacy, Agencies, Access => Topic started by: WWC on January 09, 2023, 09:45:34 PM
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Lawsuit Synopsis
I. Problem.
The current Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission (Commission) is not abiding by RCW 77.04.012. This puts cattlemen, ranchers, agriculture, private property owners, hunters, commercial fishermen, recreational fishermen, and all consumptive users in a terrible position.
RCW 77.04.012.
Mandate of department and commission.
Wildlife, fish, and shellfish are the property of the state. The commission, director, and the department shall preserve, protect, perpetuate, and manage the wildlife and food fish, game fish, and shellfish in state waters and offshore waters.
The department shall conserve the wildlife and food fish, game fish, and shellfish resources in a manner that does not impair the resource. In a manner consistent with this goal, the department shall seek to maintain the economic well-being and stability of the fishing industry in the state. The department shall promote orderly fisheries and shall enhance and improve recreational and commercial fishing in this state.
The commission may authorize the taking of wildlife, food fish, game fish, and shellfish only at times or places, or in manners or quantities, as in the judgment of the commission does not impair the supply of these resources.
The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
Recognizing that the management of our state wildlife, food fish, game fish, and shellfish resources depends heavily on the assistance of volunteers, the department shall work cooperatively with volunteer groups and individuals to achieve the goals of this title to the greatest extent possible.
Nothing in this title shall be construed to infringe on the right of a private property owner to control the owner's private property.
The current Commission blatantly ignores its responsibilities under the legislative mandate.
II. The problem is significant.
The Commission has, in the past, consistently ignored the legislative mandate, causing Commissioner Don McIsaac to resign from the Commission in disgust. The Commission voted 5 – 4 to ban all spring bear hunting. McIsaac said in his resignation letter:
“Just as the broad spectrum of biodiversity provides stability and strength to a robust natural ecosystem, a Commission composed of informed individuals with diverse opinions and different areas of specialized expertise in the field of natural resources conservation and management can provide stability and success to fulfilling the Commission’s legislative mandate. I urge you to consider such diversity as you consider the future of the Commission,” McIsaac wrote. That edict from state lawmakers was on his mind this past Friday as the commission voted 5-4 to ban the “recreational” hunting of bears in spring.
“Going to zero is not in the mandate of the commission,” McIsaac stated.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
A. Tino Villaluz, the wildlife program manager for the Swinomish Indian Community, took issue with two of the Commissioners, Lorna Smith’s, and Fred Koontz’s “wanton disregard of the wildlife profession.” And yesterday, after a briefing on the dire straits faced by the Blue Mountains elk herd that has fallen to its lowest levels in 30-plus years and is not responding to sharply decreased antlerless tag levels, Smith and Koontz essentially argued, what crisis, let’s just lower the goalposts on the population objective and consider reducing hunting opportunities even further instead. Villaluz, pointing to treaty hunting rights and necessary pragmatic wildlife management in the West’s smallest state with the second highest human population, said, “The arbitrary protection of predators cannot continue.” He said that Smith and Koontz were showing “a heavy bias to first foods,” which he said for him is ungulates, and he said that it equated to “white privilege.”
B. Even though the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) staff showed that the science supported a limited-entry spring bear hunt, the Commission voted it down on a 5 – 4 vote on March 19, 2022. WDFW worked hard to show the Commission the necessity of a spring bear hunt, but the Commission voted it down anyway.
C. On Friday, November 18, 2022, The Commission voted to end “recreational hunting of black bears in the spring.” This will be devastating to the timber industry who lose millions of dollars to damage to trees from black bears in the spring. As Commissioner McIsaac said in his resignation, “Going to zero is not in the mandate of the commission.”
D. The Commission is of the mindset to protect large predators. The state is being overrun with cougars, black bears, and wolves. The animal-rights mindset is having a devastating effect on ungulate populations, which is a crushing blow to the hunting, ranching, agricultural, and rural communities.
1. With declining ungulate populations, large predators don’t turn vegetarian, they turn to livestock for their food source. Predation on livestock increases.
2. When ungulate populations decline, hunting seasons close, hunting opportunities plummet. Hunters quit hunting.
3. Rural communities that depend on hunters’ dollars lose out. Hunters spend $370 million dollars in Washington annually, over $163 million on trip related expenses, a $614 million dollar ripple effect.
4. The Commission is based on the false science of single specie management. Wildlife must be managed as a whole. Prey species must be managed in conjunction with the predators that prey upon them with the emphasis on the females of the species and the neonates.
5. In a Blue Mountain calf study, 125 calves were collared; there were two capture mortalities and seven dropped collars. Only 11 calves survived 150 days. There were 105 mortalities, 77 of those due to predation. Cougars were responsible for 70% of the calf loss. Cougar, bear, and wolves were responsible for another 20%, so large predators were responsible for 90% of the documented calf loss.
E. We have had Commissioners like Tim Regan say they are afraid to go out in the woods because of hunters and hunting opportunities need to be curtailed.
III. The problem is inherent.
The problem is part of the system and will not go away on its own unless we change something. This means that we need to take significant action.
A. The Governor is an animal-rights activist. When Jay Inslee was in Congress, during the ten years he served according to the Congressional Record out of 435 members of Congress, he was dead last on sportsmen’s issues. He has kept this up on wolves, telling WDFW to concentrate on non-lethal methods on wolves, while ranchers are being devastated by wolves.
B. The Governor’s Senior Policy Advisor on Natural Resources, Ruth Musgrave, is an ardent animal-rights activist. She worked for the National Caucus of Environmental Legislators for ten years and was a board member of the radical animal-rights group Defenders of Wildlife.
C. The Commission is out of balance with five environmental/animal-rights members controlling the nine-member Commission. Barbara Baker, Tim Regan, Lorna Smith, Melanie Rowland, and John Lehmkuhl solidly control the Commission.
1. This is illegal per RCW 77.04.040
RCW 77.04.040
Commission—Qualifications of members.
Persons eligible for appointment as members of the commission shall have general knowledge of the habits and distribution of fish and wildlife and shall not hold another state, county, or municipal elective or appointive office. In making these appointments, the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists. Persons eligible for appointment as fish and wildlife commissioners shall comply with the provisions of chapters 42.52 and * 42.17 RCW.
2. The Governor, nor anyone in the Governor’s office has reached out to the hunting, fishing, ranching, agricultural, or private landowner community for our recommendations on the Commission.
3. The Governor’s office blatantly flaunts the law in regard to the Commission, stacking the Commission in radical environmentalist/animal-rightists favor.
D. Our citizen safeguard in the state senate is worthless. The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission is the only board or commission in Washington State where Commissioners can sit unconfirmed. There is no statutory requirement to confirm a commissioner, they can sit their entire term unconfirmed. An example of this is Commissioner Miranda Wecker who served on the Commission for 18 years, all of them unfirmed.
E. Even if the state senate would confirm the problem would still be inherent. The Chair of the Senate Natural Resources Committee is a HSUS “Legislator of the Year” in Senator Keven VanDeWege. The other three members: Jesse Salomon, Christine Rolfes, and Mark Stanford are all heavy animal-rights supporters. The state senate is under heavy Democratic control. Last year the Senate Natural Resources Committee voted to recommend the most radical of the animal-rights Commissioners, Lorna Smith, on a straight party line vote 4 – 3. She did not get confirmed by the state senate as session ended.
IV. The only solution is suing the Governor’s office to bring balance to the Commission.
The state’s two largest construction trade associations, the Building Industry Association of Washington (BIAW) and the Associated General Contractors of Washington (AGC) have filed a lawsuit to hold the governor accountable for not following the law in making his most recent appointments to the State Building Code Council (SBCC). The builders won this case in a settlement out of court.
A. This shows a consistent history of not following the law and not following the balance doctrine.
B. We have no legislative recourse.
C. Ten years ago, two leaders of the cattle industry and a leader of hunting community met with the top natural resources attorney in the state. This attorney told this group that legislators, the Commission, and the Governor’s Office give us no respect is that we never sue. This attorney said that we never play hardball. This attorney said that the tribes, the environmental groups, and the animal-rights groups all sued. This attorney said that if we just filed an intent to sue, we probably make the other side faint and gain instant respect. This attorney is no longer in natural resources law.
V The call to action.
A. Join WWC. http://w4wc.org/membership.html This lawsuit will cost money and we need a diverse group of sportsmen to back this effort.
B. Convince other organizations to sign on to the lawsuit. Sportsmen need a wide variety of sportsmen related groups to publicly back this. Sportsmen have been clamoring for some one to lead the way. We are but we cannot do it alone.
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I am a WWC member and this is great news to hear! You have my support and I will be following this thread intently.
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Tag
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What remedy will be asked for in the suit?
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I just joined WWC as a new member. Once I see the lawsuit going forward, I will donate. I feel very strongly "WE" has the hunting community need to take a stand or it will only get worse.
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I would probably get banned for posting what I think about Inslee and his blatant disregard for the obvious facts that taxpaying, license buying Washington sportsmen and women, ranchers and landowners all have seen and tried to bring to his attention.
It is crystal clear to me that he only cares about the Green Agenda Pro-Predator Lefty Cali style image which he constantly presents and is not the type of Native Washingtonian that so many Hunt Wa members are. I am 44, born in Everett, and grew up hunting and fishing as my relatives and ancestors did. The herds of game and schools of returning salmon and steelhead have decreased year after year, to the point where I feel bad harvesting an animal or anadromous wild fish.
It has never seemed to me like Inslee is NOT the type of guy that learned to hunt Deer on his Grandpa's stand, with the '30's Winchester he gave me and taught me to be responsible with, and to always be respectful of the creatures that God put on this, our only earth in order for humans to survive.
Nor trolling for Salmon with his Grandad, with the orange Eagle Claw he gave me and taught me to use properly, while being mindful of how fish survive and how important these recurring fish runs are for humans to grow up strong and proud.
Nor picking berries in our Mountains, clamming on our shores, enjoying a dog on the scent, skinning out his first coyote, or leaving a place better than he found it.
Nor did it ever seem as if he had learned conservation by quietly and stealthily observing our native wildlife and fish runs in their natural habitat.
I went to launch my boat in the spring of 2019 and it was closed due to his political maneuvering and outright deception, not to mention sheer lack of common sense that God gave to a tadpole.
I have ruined my body working hard, dangerous, crappy jobs for minimal money, so that I could buy a chunk or two of dirt on both sides of the Cascades to call my own. The taxes I pay on them go in part to fund the Wolfification of Washington and countless other completely nonsensical Political B.S. that serves only to make big shots in N.Y, L.A. and D.C. smile knowing they got their way over the common man. The ruling that WDFW HAS to listen and consider their comments during all wildlife management decisions is by far the biggest thorn in my side. Knowing that some rich insider who knows all the tricks to get their voice heard while I am the one who has to listen to the wolves overrun my property in Ferry County burns me up and greatly diminishes my quality of life.
I would rather we did NOT accept federal dollars and make up the difference ourselves as Washington Sportsmen. Maybe the surplus wolves, cougars, and bears should be trucked to Their property in N.Y., D.C., and L.A. I am also a federal taxpayer and those states rely on federal dollars. Perhaps they would not be so inclined to install their own unfounded beliefs on others homeland once some lap dogs and domesticated cats begin disappearing from their own backyards?
Inslee obviously wants to be something more than a Governor in the future. If I had political ambitions it sure would be an easy call to try and run the state I was in charge of in a responsible manner, instead of putting on a show for the Leftist culture and propaganda war experts in D.C.
This is the only Washington that he should care about, and yet I have yet to see any proof that he worries about us more than the liberal elite on the other coast.
Big Props on the lawsuit to WWC, and a huge Right On!! to HuntWa for the freedom to express our opinions. Inslee would rather we are not heard or seen. Rant over.
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:tup:
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Well Said!
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VERY well said and sounding familiar!
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That bumper sticker I seen yesterday.
Said......
Even my dog hates inslee.
I thought that was pretty funny. :chuckle:
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Thanks for the public update on this suit. I've been asked to be on a panel on the 28th at the Roanoke Conference. This will be talked about.
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06 said, "It is crystal clear to me that he only cares about...."
All Inslee cares about is what he to told to by the DNC($$$ for re-elections), he doesn't even worry about his brain dead supporters! That was crystal clear back during the Brady gun control years! WE kicked him out of office then, but he weaseled his way back in by moving to the wet side!
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this is great news. I will join WWC and support with $, and spread the word.
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Glad to hear it. The anti's are constantly suing to advance their agenda, it's time sportsmen do the same.
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Give that rat bassturd hell!
I'm a WWC member
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This seems like an awesome thing for all of us on this forum, why is it not getting much attention here? Thanks WWC…
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I never donate to anything I usually don't have a dog in the fight, this however is different its becoming readily apparent to me that we need to fight fire with fire when it comes to important issues such as this. I will be supporting the WWC and their efforts in any way I can. We must stand together and fight against the onslaught of our rights. We must also be a threat to the individual, politicians, organizations, or whatever the case in whatever legal means possible. We cannot sit idle.
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This seems like an awesome thing for all of us on this forum, why is it not getting much attention here? Thanks WWC…
I think it would be better to just get rid of the commission, than to complain about his lousy picks. :twocents:
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Good fight!! Member already, donated again
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I would probably get banned for posting what I think about Inslee and his blatant disregard for the obvious facts that taxpaying, license buying Washington sportsmen and women, ranchers and landowners all have seen and tried to bring to his attention.
It is crystal clear to me that he only cares about the Green Agenda Pro-Predator Lefty Cali style image which he constantly presents and is not the type of Native Washingtonian that so many Hunt Wa members are. I am 44, born in Everett, and grew up hunting and fishing as my relatives and ancestors did. The herds of game and schools of returning salmon and steelhead have decreased year after year, to the point where I feel bad harvesting an animal or anadromous wild fish.
It has never seemed to me like Inslee is NOT the type of guy that learned to hunt Deer on his Grandpa's stand, with the '30's Winchester he gave me and taught me to be responsible with, and to always be respectful of the creatures that God put on this, our only earth in order for humans to survive.
Nor trolling for Salmon with his Grandad, with the orange Eagle Claw he gave me and taught me to use properly, while being mindful of how fish survive and how important these recurring fish runs are for humans to grow up strong and proud.
Nor picking berries in our Mountains, clamming on our shores, enjoying a dog on the scent, skinning out his first coyote, or leaving a place better than he found it.
Nor did it ever seem as if he had learned conservation by quietly and stealthily observing our native wildlife and fish runs in their natural habitat.
I went to launch my boat in the spring of 2019 and it was closed due to his political maneuvering and outright deception, not to mention sheer lack of common sense that God gave to a tadpole.
I have ruined my body working hard, dangerous, crappy jobs for minimal money, so that I could buy a chunk or two of dirt on both sides of the Cascades to call my own. The taxes I pay on them go in part to fund the Wolfification of Washington and countless other completely nonsensical Political B.S. that serves only to make big shots in N.Y, L.A. and D.C. smile knowing they got their way over the common man. The ruling that WDFW HAS to listen and consider their comments during all wildlife management decisions is by far the biggest thorn in my side. Knowing that some rich insider who knows all the tricks to get their voice heard while I am the one who has to listen to the wolves overrun my property in Ferry County burns me up and greatly diminishes my quality of life.
I would rather we did NOT accept federal dollars and make up the difference ourselves as Washington Sportsmen. Maybe the surplus wolves, cougars, and bears should be trucked to Their property in N.Y., D.C., and L.A. I am also a federal taxpayer and those states rely on federal dollars. Perhaps they would not be so inclined to install their own unfounded beliefs on others homeland once some lap dogs and domesticated cats begin disappearing from their own backyards?
Inslee obviously wants to be something more than a Governor in the future. If I had political ambitions it sure would be an easy call to try and run the state I was in charge of in a responsible manner, instead of putting on a show for the Leftist culture and propaganda war experts in D.C.
This is the only Washington that he should care about, and yet I have yet to see any proof that he worries about us more than the liberal elite on the other coast.
Big Props on the lawsuit to WWC, and a huge Right On!! to HuntWa for the freedom to express our opinions. Inslee would rather we are not heard or seen. Rant over.
:tup:
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Saw this the other day. :chuckle:
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This seems like an awesome thing for all of us on this forum, why is it not getting much attention here? Thanks WWC…
I think it would be better to just get rid of the commission, than to complain about his lousy picks. :twocents:
We all want things to move at the speed of light. Just because it's on a forum doesn't mean the fight is gonna happen by the end of the week. I'm gonna chip in some duckets and make sure as many of my friends do as well. I'm also gonna convince the Sportsmen Orgs to sign on and or give cash when the time is right. I've been to cautious and stingy in the past because I was unsure if xyz Sportsmen org was not as hard core as I had hoped. I don't think it's an easy thing to sue the governor and place your organizations head on the chopping block. In my oppionon we Sportsmen have been too timid. Our anti hunting political enemies are too ready to enter battle. We wait for the perfect opportunity with the certainty of 100%. I'm gonna toss my Lott in on this hand. Give my time, money and strong arm everyone I can to co tribute. Sportsmen have yearned for some one to do something... and the case has been laid bare. We have no more options. Take a stand and perhaps the powers that be will finally take Sportsmen seriously instead of thinking we are a weak feckless bunch of limp noodles.
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🤔
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Just joined WWC and bump for a good cause
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:tup:
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This seems like an awesome thing for all of us on this forum, why is it not getting much attention here? Thanks WWC…
I think it would be better to just get rid of the commission, than to complain about his lousy picks. :twocents:
Working on it from both sides. It is the senate which confirms commission members. But, with a D majority in both houses that does whatever King Inslee wants, suing him to obey the laws of WA is the only remaining course of action. They wouldn't even vote to limit his emergency powers after two years of lockdowns, mask mandates, firing first responder state employees, and crushing private business.
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This seems like an awesome thing for all of us on this forum, why is it not getting much attention here? Thanks WWC…
Maybe some members don’t know what WWC is , and not sure everyone on the forum or the public actually realizes the pickle we are in. without sportsman , ranchers , heck anyone that understands and supports the North American conservation model we have to spread the word to gain support and understanding
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What’s the difference between the Associate membership and the Voting membership and how different are they from single or family membership (other than the obvious price difference)
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What’s the difference between the Associate membership and the Voting membership and how different are they from single or family membership (other than the obvious price difference)
Generally the $250 and $100 dollar memberships are for sportsmen organizations but we have had individuals join at the associate level. Since the associate membership link is not working, we will get that fixed and add a donation button as well.
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I am all for the lawsuit, more are being discussed.
Also, "synopsis" .....
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Just joined WWC and bump for a good cause
Joined also. It's time we joined forces and fought back or they are going to slowly destroy us.
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Just joined WWC and bump for a good cause
Joined also. It's time we joined forces and fought back or they are going to slowly destroy us.
Joining today. Hopefully this allows our collective voices to be heard and respected.
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What’s the difference between the Associate membership and the Voting membership and how different are they from single or family membership (other than the obvious price difference)
I am not sure what the problem is. The associate membership was not available on my phone, It was on a tablet, and it did work once on my desktop now won't show available. We have had memberships process notifications so it must be some kind of glitch.
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What’s the difference between the Associate membership and the Voting membership and how different are they from single or family membership (other than the obvious price difference)
I am not sure what the problem is. The associate membership was not available on my phone, It was on a tablet, and it did work once on my desktop now won't show available. We have had memberships process notifications so it must be some kind of glitch.
I was able to buy the Associate this morning at 8:30 but then it wouldn’t allow me to purchase it again for someone else after that.
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AG got wind of this and made some calls...
Kidding...not kidding.
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Any co plaintiffs that you can speak of.
WCA, PSA, BHA and so on.
Or is this a solo venture. Possibility of becoming a class action?
Don't show your cards if the time isn't right. Just curious.
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Any co plaintiffs that you can speak of.
WCA, PSA, BHA and so on.
Or is this a solo venture. Possibility of becoming a class action?
Don't show your cards if the time isn't right. Just curious.
This is not a solo adventure and we are talking with other organizations most of which are willing to sign on and chip in. Aside from our statement current details will lack details.
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Any co plaintiffs that you can speak of.
WCA, PSA, BHA and so on.
Or is this a solo venture. Possibility of becoming a class action?
Don't show your cards if the time isn't right. Just curious.
This is not a solo adventure and we are talking with other organizations most of which are willing to sign on and chip in. Aside from our statement current details will lack details.
:tup:
I'm in
Let's roll some heads.
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Do you have a law firm that is willing to take the case on and where do you intend to file the lawsuit?
Have you looked to see if there are any federal/state grant programs that are available to fund the lawsuit? That’s what the left uses for all their BS lawsuits.
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Renewed my WWC membership just now. Keep on fighting the good fight!!
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tag. Everyone get involved, donate, do something. Lets do it!
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Do you have a law firm that is willing to take the case on and where do you intend to file the lawsuit?
Have you looked to see if there are any federal/state grant programs that are available to fund the lawsuit? That’s what the left uses for all their BS lawsuits.
+1
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I am not sure that it is entirely relevant, but i would make sure that you and your law firm are familiar with the lawsuit BIAW and AGC sued the Governor over illegal appointments to the code council. There is a lot to be learned from this lawsuit and probably a law firm with some experience.
https://www.biaw.com/lawsuit-over-illegal-sbcc-appointments/
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Do you have a law firm that is willing to take the case on and where do you intend to file the lawsuit?
Have you looked to see if there are any federal/state grant programs that are available to fund the lawsuit? That’s what the left uses for all their BS lawsuits.
Yes we have a lawyer.
As I understand We do not qualify for the same kinds of reimbursements Animal Rights organizations do. That process is its own ball of yarn for a later discussion.
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I abandoned most of my conservation group donations after they failed to stick up for Washington over the last 2 years.
I'm happy to support this. I'll be your newest member shortly.
This is exactly what's needed.
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I abandoned most of my conservation group donations after they failed to stick up for Washington over the last 2 years.
I'm happy to support this. I'll be your newest member shortly.
This is exactly what's needed.
:yeah:
Spend money where the action is!
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I abandoned most of my conservation group donations after they failed to stick up for Washington over the last 2 years.
I'm happy to support this. I'll be your newest member shortly.
This is exactly what's needed.
I'm joining too. I've seen a lot of loss of opportunity in WA's hunting & fishing, as well as my industry, due to a passive stance towards our opponents that want to take, take, take opportunity and resources away.
I'm over that losing tradition, ready to turn this franchise around!
*Update - I also can't purchase the Associate Membership on my phone, says "Not Available"...
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Shifting some of my support funds. Associate membership application is in the mail. Let's make it happen.
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Do you have a law firm that is willing to take the case on and where do you intend to file the lawsuit?
Have you looked to see if there are any federal/state grant programs that are available to fund the lawsuit? That’s what the left uses for all their BS lawsuits.
Yes we have a lawyer.
As I understand We do not qualify for the same kinds of reimbursements Animal Rights organizations do. That process is its own ball of yarn for a later discussion.
Crazy how the AR's can squander lots and lots money in the name of the EJFA Act and a bonafide Conservation group like WWC supporting hunters can't. The AR's definately know how to play the game.
Gary
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Do you have a law firm that is willing to take the case on and where do you intend to file the lawsuit?
Have you looked to see if there are any federal/state grant programs that are available to fund the lawsuit? That’s what the left uses for all their BS lawsuits.
Yes we have a lawyer.
As I understand We do not qualify for the same kinds of reimbursements Animal Rights organizations do. That process is its own ball of yarn for a later discussion.
Crazy how the AR's can squander lots and lots money in the name of the EJFA Act and a bonafide Conservation group like WWC supporting hunters can't. The AR's definately know how to play the game.
Gary
I belive the answers we all need are in following the money... I know WWC does a gun raffle each year selling tags at the sportsmen shows. They also make money from individual and organization memberships. Aside from gifts or donations that is it as I understand.
Many anti hunting groups get thier lawyers fees reimbursed, so of course the keep one on the payroll. Many also make money via organizing land/conservation easement sales which can yield big monies.
It does make a big difference when you get reimbursed even if partially to push your agenda, vs have to pay out of pocket. I am no accountant no research slooth, and I bet we as sportsmen would benifit from knowing how the monies are made and how they spend it.
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Our President will be on The Outdoor Line ESPN 710 radio show at approximately 7:20 AM Saturday morning to talk with Tom Nelson. http://www.theoutdoorline.com/
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I fear that POS Bob Ferguson, AG, will slow walk any lawsuits in order to bankrupt any opposition to Indsleys agenda.
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I fear that POS Bob Ferguson, AG, will slow walk any lawsuits in order to bankrupt any opposition to Indsleys agenda.
+1
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I fear that POS Bob Ferguson, AG, will slow walk any lawsuits in order to bankrupt any opposition to Indsleys agenda.
I my oppinion the main way to overcome this problem is to have our sportmen, archery, trap, critter organizations to publically support this lawsuit.
I think many hesitant organizations needed some one else to be the tip of the spear. RMEF, MDF, DU BHA and others. I think MEMBERSHIP wants this, but only pressure by members can make this a wave. Remember when RMEF lost a ton of membership over the wolf issue? I belive that these hesitant groups can be forced to support. Generally I have been a skeptic of BHA BUT the Washington chapter has pushed back harder than folks lime me expected. Pressure your $ and membership on supporting this movement. They may not be the tip of the spear, but they can be forced to support it. Inform your other organizations about the issue and make your membership conditional on support of it! I will and you should also!
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Are the cattlemen, wool growers, commercial fishers ect getting on board with this?
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http://podcasts.theoutdoorline.com/?a=5424
This is the interview mentioned earlier
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Are the cattlemen, wool growers, commercial fishers etc. getting on board with this?
We have several groups that are verbally enthusiastic about the suit. We cannot currently comment because most need to vote in their board of directors meetings.
If you are a member of another conservation group, sportsmen club, or shooting club share with them the information from the first post. Encourage them to join us in support of the suit in name and money. We want the support of a wide variety of groups in both mission and geographic location.
THANK YOU! The rush of new memberships is encouraging and reaffirms we are on the right track.
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:tup:
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The online membership issue should be completely resolved now. If you have any further problems please reach out.
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This an article from the Lewiston Morning Tribune interviewing the WWC President about the suit.
https://lmtribune.com/northwest/hunting-group-says-it-will-sue-gov-inslee/article_4ff2b737-128f-51d4-a215-6cf54434dd9d.html
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Nice article. Keep pushing. :tup:
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"The commission did increase the mountain lion bag limit from one per year to two with Lehmkuhl, a lifelong hunter, providing the swing vote."
Isn't Lehmkuhl the guy that didn't know we hunt turkey in the spring? Pisses me off that the media keeps calling him a lifelong hunter.
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If I remember correctly that increase was an attempt to increase harvest but did noting to increase the quoatas or lengthen the season. I belive it was the one attempt that Director S usewind thought he could make happen.
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If I remember correctly that increase was an attempt to increase harvest but did noting to increase the quoatas or lengthen the season. I belive it was the one attempt that Director S usewind thought he could make happen.
Individual take was increased to two but the total harvest and season dates remained unchanged. It was a feel good measure that did nothing to relieve the cougar predation pressure on the elk calves. Total harvest increases (or unlimited harvest) along with emergency use of hounds to thin the population are the only steps that will alleviate the decline of the Blues elk herd.
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If I remember correctly that increase was an attempt to increase harvest but did noting to increase the quoatas or lengthen the season. I belive it was the one attempt that Director S usewind thought he could make happen.
Individual take was increased to two but the total harvest and season dates remained unchanged. It was a feel good measure that did nothing to relieve the cougar predation pressure on the elk calves. Total harvest increases (or unlimited harvest) along with emergency use of hounds to thin the population are the only steps that will alleviate the decline of the Blues elk herd.
I understand why you'd call it a feel good measure, and the rest of what you said is accurate but..
The one good thing about is that it acknowledged cougars need to managed and hunters are a tool for management . At a very foundational level, it's works in our favor in messaging and politics, even if it fails the wildlife
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If I remember correctly that increase was an attempt to increase harvest but did noting to increase the quoatas or lengthen the season. I belive it was the one attempt that Director S usewind thought he could make happen.
Individual take was increased to two but the total harvest and season dates remained unchanged. It was a feel good measure that did nothing to relieve the cougar predation pressure on the elk calves. Total harvest increases (or unlimited harvest) along with emergency use of hounds to thin the population are the only steps that will alleviate the decline of the Blues elk herd.
I understand why you'd call it a feel good measure, and the rest of what you said is accurate but..
The one good thing about is that it acknowledged cougars need to managed and hunters are a tool for management . At a very foundational level, it's works in our favor in messaging and politics, even if it fails the wildlife
Yes you are correct, mostly because Susewind pushed it. I will sing that guys praises all day long.. . It still didn't accomplish anything tho.
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If I remember correctly that increase was an attempt to increase harvest but did noting to increase the quoatas or lengthen the season. I belive it was the one attempt that Director S usewind thought he could make happen.
Individual take was increased to two but the total harvest and season dates remained unchanged. It was a feel good measure that did nothing to relieve the cougar predation pressure on the elk calves. Total harvest increases (or unlimited harvest) along with emergency use of hounds to thin the population are the only steps that will alleviate the decline of the Blues elk herd.
I understand why you'd call it a feel good measure, and the rest of what you said is accurate but..
The one good thing about is that it acknowledged cougars need to managed and hunters are a tool for management . At a very foundational level, it's works in our favor in messaging and politics, even if it fails the wildlife
That's the whole point of the North American Wildlife Conservation Model, which is supposed to be the guiding principle of every state F&G department in the country. The WDFW is having its hands tied by the corrupted Wildlife Commission. They should be doing much more to alleviate the problems associated with calf and fawn death rates, especially in the Blues. This feel-good measure of increasing individual harvest but not increasing overall harvest is smoke and mirrors. We know why their numbers are plummeting. And, I believe, that the activists on the Commission are pleased with those numbers. This will give them what they need to further limit hunter opportunity. This isn't about proper wildlife management. This is about ending our heritage as we know it. It's already started with spring bear. Beaver trapping is on the table next.
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Your support of this suit and the WWC is critical for the future of hunting in this state. If the Commission isn't purged of the activists, I believe Director Susewind will resign before the end of the year. He's a lame duck and the Commission won't even listen to his biologists and game managers. Then watch out who the Commission selects for their new director. He/She/It will be a preservationist, not a conservationist. Whatever the outcome, the result of this suit will have huge effect on all of us here.
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Also having fair outdoors person representation on the commission. The WAC was put in place to have a diversity not be biased one way or another. Theoretically you would have some people on the commission that are unbiased so that when the voted on subject matter they would vote based on science and WDFW personnel input. But when it's stacked one way it's not a true representation. As it is now the anti hunting/fishing commissioners don't listen to outdoorsman, science, WDFW biologists they claim to need more information. You have to figure that those that are on the fence are swayed by those claiming more info. If you were to listen to some of the commission meetings you would see that the anti commissioners are the ones that speak up the most and constantly disregard WDFW personnel input. Namely those most recently appointed. Just looking at Smiths back around you will see she's on a anti hunting groups board. I am willing to bet she convinces members of that group to speak up during the commissioners meetings.
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If I remember correctly that increase was an attempt to increase harvest but did noting to increase the quoatas or lengthen the season. I belive it was the one attempt that Director S usewind thought he could make happen.
Individual take was increased to two but the total harvest and season dates remained unchanged. It was a feel good measure that did nothing to relieve the cougar predation pressure on the elk calves. Total harvest increases (or unlimited harvest) along with emergency use of hounds to thin the population are the only steps that will alleviate the decline of the Blues elk herd.
I understand why you'd call it a feel good measure, and the rest of what you said is accurate but..
The one good thing about is that it acknowledged cougars need to managed and hunters are a tool for management . At a very foundational level, it's works in our favor in messaging and politics, even if it fails the wildlife
That's the whole point of the North American Wildlife Conservation Model, which is supposed to be the guiding principle of every state F&G department in the country. The WDFW is having its hands tied by the corrupted Wildlife Commission. They should be doing much more to alleviate the problems associated with calf and fawn death rates, especially in the Blues. This feel-good measure of increasing individual harvest but not increasing overall harvest is smoke and mirrors. We know why their numbers are plummeting. And, I believe, that the activists on the Commission are pleased with those numbers. This will give them what they need to further limit hunter opportunity. This isn't about proper wildlife management. This is about ending our heritage as we know it. It's already started with spring bear. Beaver trapping is on the table next.
Then the corrupt commissioners can say they did something "for us" which we all know did nothing to mitigate cougar predation in the Blues
Someone asked a few posts back about what commissioner didn't know that there was a Spring Turkey season... I believe that was Melanie Rowland.
Gary
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https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2023/jan/18/hunting-group-to-sue-gov-inslee-alleging-biased-co/
Ran in the Spokane paper as well. :tup:
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Wanted to fact check myself on Lehmkuhl not know that there was a Spring Turkey season. Here's a NWSportsman article where they transcribed that statement from Lehmkuhl.
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/decisive-vote-on-wa-2022-spring-bear-hunt-draws-nigh/
“With regard to spring bear hunting, the thing that occurs to me is, why just are we hunting bears in the spring? And why aren’t we – if we’re going to maximize bear hunting, OK, let’s hunt bears in the spring. If we’re trying to maximize hunting in general, then why aren’t we hunting other animals in the springtime? Why do we have a double standard for bears?"
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Wanted to fact check myself on Lehmkuhl not know that there was a Spring Turkey season. Here's a NWSportsman article where they transcribed that statement from Lehmkuhl.
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/decisive-vote-on-wa-2022-spring-bear-hunt-draws-nigh/
“With regard to spring bear hunting, the thing that occurs to me is, why just are we hunting bears in the spring? And why aren’t we – if we’re going to maximize bear hunting, OK, let’s hunt bears in the spring. If we’re trying to maximize hunting in general, then why aren’t we hunting other animals in the springtime? Why do we have a double standard for bears?"
He's obviously missing the point that we need to kill more predators to help stabilize ungulate populations, year round. Animal rights people don't want to stabilize any ungulate population. They want to end hunting and hurting ungulate populations is a great path to success.
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You can bet if they eliminated any predator hunting at all they would get their objective. Just like no cougar hunting in CA. Or trying to eliminate any wolf hunting
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You can bet if they eliminated any predator hunting at all they would get their objective. Just like no cougar hunting in CA. Or trying to eliminate any wolf hunting
That's why they brought the wolves here in the first place.
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You can bet if they eliminated any predator hunting at all they would get their objective. Just like no cougar hunting in CA. Or trying to eliminate any wolf hunting
That's why they brought the wolves here in the first place.
I have a thought they migrated here from MT & ID. :dunno:
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Here is the west, central Idaho and Yellowstone, from northern Alberta. They really do not pay much attention to our state lines.
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I brought all this up at the Goldendale Washington wolf meeting.Also in violation of public meetings act and not posting meetings correctly.illegal not to post one one of the following newspaper news station or library the internet or websites are not legal postings.
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Our President Will be on the Fish Hunt Northwest show at 6:45 this Thursday to talk about the pending lawsuit.
https://www.fishhuntnw.com/
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Our President Will be on the Fish Hunt Northwest show at 6:45 this Thursday to talk about the pending lawsuit.
https://www.fishhuntnw.com/
AM or PM?
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Our President Will be on the Fish Hunt Northwest show at 6:45 this Thursday to talk about the pending lawsuit.
https://www.fishhuntnw.com/
AM or PM?
The show is 6-8pm
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We want to encourage sportsmen to reach out to all of their current conservation and sportsmen clubs and inform them of the lawsuit. As many of you know this issue affects more than hunters. A broad base including fishermen will help send the right message. We are grateful for the support of the individual sportsmen that have joined our ranks. Continue to tell your friends to join. Share the first post in this thread, and if your other organizations leadership has questions our President will talk with them. That extra effort will pay dividends as we expand our coalition to bring balance to the commission.
Here is yet another article.
https://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/hunting-group-plans-to-sue-washington-gov-over-fish-and-wildlife-commission-structure/article_98a77c2e-9914-11ed-9763-bb5aacad6cd0.html
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Our President talks at about the 42 min mark.
https://www.youtube.com/live/84b-Q2gaNXI?feature=share
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I'll be on a Conservation panel at the Roanoke Conference tomorrow at 945 AM. I will mention WWC's suit and encourage the audience to participate by joining. I will be talking about how the Governor has stacked the commission, against state law, and how this negatively affects the North American Wildlife Conservation Model in our state.
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Thanks for taking the time.
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Last year after the initial spring bear debacle due to numerous vacancies on the commission there were numerous bills in the legislature sponsored by both parties to overhaul or at least look into overhauling the commission.
This year there hasn't been a single commission related bill filed by either party.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
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We want to encourage sportsmen to reach out to all of their current conservation and sportsmen clubs and inform them of the lawsuit. As many of you know this issue affects more than hunters. A broad base including fishermen will help send the right message. We are grateful for the support of the individual sportsmen that have joined our ranks. Continue to tell your friends to join. Share the first post in this thread, and if your other organizations leadership has questions our President will talk with them. That extra effort will pay dividends as we expand our coalition to bring balance to the commission.
Here is yet another article.
https://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/hunting-group-plans-to-sue-washington-gov-over-fish-and-wildlife-commission-structure/article_98a77c2e-9914-11ed-9763-bb5aacad6cd0.html
Have you heard from the Stevens County cattlemen association? You should be
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
If you have listened to some of the interviews or read some of the longer articles I think its pretty well laid out. They state a couple of RCWs that are broken and they point to a lawsuit by the builders showing a rough outline of case precedence of the Governor breaking the law and a remedy. In the case of the Builders suit they got to kick off 2 people on the building commission hand pick 2 and get paid for their trouble.
How would I roll it out? Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission. The governor did not consult ANY sportsmen group on them. The Commercial fishermen do not have a representative which would need a to change. Also some kind of frame work for appointments revolving around consulting and the distribution stated in the RCWs they point out, and I think Ive heard of 3 that apply.
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission.
I don’t see that happening, or how it would even be possible that it would happen.
Commercial fishing interests have been well represented on the commission. The commercial fishing guy quit when it was clear that McIsaac was putting commercial fishing interests over anything else as chair of the fish committee. Now that he is gone I’m sure Thornburn will continue to follow his lead or whoever is next. Follow the $.
Their is no one representing sport fishermen, which is the main reason the commission was created in the first place.
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission.
I don’t see that happening, or how it would even be possible that it would happen.
Commercial fishing interests have been well represented on the commission. The commercial fishing guy quit when it was clear that McIsaac was putting commercial fishing interests over anything else as chair of the fish committee. Now that he is gone I’m sure Thornburn will continue to follow his lead or whoever is next. Follow the $.
Their is no one representing sport fishermen, which is the main reason the commission was created in the first place.
Im sorry but you are mistaken. Kehoe the commercial rep was replaced with Fred Koontz upon the governors appointment. I personally do not have a dog in the fight on the fishing side of things. My point is that in the RCW it specifically states 4 or 5 stakeholders that must be represented. Commercials are the 1 stakeholder that cannot even be fudged. Now I personally think the only real sportsmen on the commission right now is Jim Anderson. Thorburn likely wont get reappointed by the governor. While I like her she fits the environmental stake holder quite well as I believe she is a vegetarian, does not hunt and come tot the commission from the autobahn society.
As far as the possibility It is possible in some fashion because of the builders lawsuit that has been thrown about on here and mentioned int he interviews. Now what is realistic? Im not a lawyer so I dont know, but I told you what I would like to see. Additionally IF I was the one suing the governor I wouldn't discuss it in any more detail than WWC has already.
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission.
I don’t see that happening, or how it would even be possible that it would happen.
Commercial fishing interests have been well represented on the commission. The commercial fishing guy quit when it was clear that McIsaac was putting commercial fishing interests over anything else as chair of the fish committee. Now that he is gone I’m sure Thornburn will continue to follow his lead or whoever is next. Follow the $.
Their is no one representing sport fishermen, which is the main reason the commission was created in the first place.
Im sorry but you are mistaken. Kehoe the commercial rep was replaced with Fred Koontz upon the governors appointment. I personally do not have a dog in the fight on the fishing side of things. My point is that in the RCW it specifically states 4 or 5 stakeholders that must be represented. Commercials are the 1 stakeholder that cannot even be fudged. Now I personally think the only real sportsmen on the commission right now is Jim Anderson. Thorburn likely wont get reappointed by the governor. While I like her she fits the environmental stake holder quite well as I believe she is a vegetarian, does not hunt and come tot the commission from the autobahn society.
As far as the possibility It is possible in some fashion because of the builders lawsuit that has been thrown about on here and mentioned int he interviews. Now what is realistic? Im not a lawyer so I dont know, but I told you what I would like to see. Additionally IF I was the one suing the governor I wouldn't discuss it in any more detail than WWC has already.
What am I mistaken about? :dunno:
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission.
I don’t see that happening, or how it would even be possible that it would happen.
Commercial fishing interests have been well represented on the commission. The commercial fishing guy quit when it was clear that McIsaac was putting commercial fishing interests over anything else as chair of the fish committee. Now that he is gone I’m sure Thornburn will continue to follow his lead or whoever is next. Follow the $.
Their is no one representing sport fishermen, which is the main reason the commission was created in the first place.
Im sorry but you are mistaken. Kehoe the commercial rep was replaced with Fred Koontz upon the governors appointment. I personally do not have a dog in the fight on the fishing side of things. My point is that in the RCW it specifically states 4 or 5 stakeholders that must be represented. Commercials are the 1 stakeholder that cannot even be fudged. Now I personally think the only real sportsmen on the commission right now is Jim Anderson. Thorburn likely wont get reappointed by the governor. While I like her she fits the environmental stake holder quite well as I believe she is a vegetarian, does not hunt and come tot the commission from the autobahn society.
As far as the possibility It is possible in some fashion because of the builders lawsuit that has been thrown about on here and mentioned int he interviews. Now what is realistic? Im not a lawyer so I dont know, but I told you what I would like to see. Additionally IF I was the one suing the governor I wouldn't discuss it in any more detail than WWC has already.
What am I mistaken about? :dunno:
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission.
I don’t see that happening, or how it would even be possible that it would happen.
Commercial fishing interests have been well represented on the commission. The commercial fishing guy quit when it was clear that McIsaac was putting commercial fishing interests over anything else as chair of the fish committee. Now that he is gone I’m sure Thornburn will continue to follow his lead or whoever is next. Follow the $.
Their is no one representing sport fishermen, which is the main reason the commission was created in the first place.
Im sorry but you are mistaken. Kehoe the commercial rep was replaced with Fred Koontz upon the governors appointment. I personally do not have a dog in the fight on the fishing side of things. My point is that in the RCW it specifically states 4 or 5 stakeholders that must be represented. Commercials are the 1 stakeholder that cannot even be fudged. Now I personally think the only real sportsmen on the commission right now is Jim Anderson. Thorburn likely wont get reappointed by the governor. While I like her she fits the environmental stake holder quite well as I believe she is a vegetarian, does not hunt and come tot the commission from the autobahn society.
As far as the possibility It is possible in some fashion because of the builders lawsuit that has been thrown about on here and mentioned int he interviews. Now what is realistic? Im not a lawyer so I dont know, but I told you what I would like to see. Additionally IF I was the one suing the governor I wouldn't discuss it in any more detail than WWC has already.
What am I mistaken about? :dunno:
That is exactly 100% what happened.
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission.
I don’t see that happening, or how it would even be possible that it would happen.
Commercial fishing interests have been well represented on the commission. The commercial fishing guy quit when it was clear that McIsaac was putting commercial fishing interests over anything else as chair of the fish committee. Now that he is gone I’m sure Thornburn will continue to follow his lead or whoever is next. Follow the $.
Their is no one representing sport fishermen, which is the main reason the commission was created in the first place.
It happened before when he did the same thing by loading the building commission. Why is this case so different? And no, the Wildlife Commission wasn't created for fishing in the first place. It was created when the separate fish and game department came together in '75 and the mandate for it to be balanced "reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists".
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission.
I don’t see that happening, or how it would even be possible that it would happen.
Commercial fishing interests have been well represented on the commission. The commercial fishing guy quit when it was clear that McIsaac was putting commercial fishing interests over anything else as chair of the fish committee. Now that he is gone I’m sure Thornburn will continue to follow his lead or whoever is next. Follow the $.
Their is no one representing sport fishermen, which is the main reason the commission was created in the first place.
It happened before when he did the same thing by loading the building commission. Why is this case so different? And no, the Wildlife Commission for fishing in the first place. It was created when the separate fish and game department came together in '75 and the mandate for it to be balanced "reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists".
Fisheries and Wildlife were merged to create WDFW in 1994, not 1975.
The Game Dept became the Wildlife Dept in 1987.
There was not a Fisheries commission under the Dept of Fisheries, the agency director had all the power. There was however a game and then Wildlife Commission under the game/Wildlife dept.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
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I would hope the people speaking publicly about this issue and the potential lawsuit speak with the accuracy of bigtex.
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
If you have listened to some of the interviews or read some of the longer articles I think its pretty well laid out. They state a couple of RCWs that are broken and they point to a lawsuit by the builders showing a rough outline of case precedence of the Governor breaking the law and a remedy. In the case of the Builders suit they got to kick off 2 people on the building commission hand pick 2 and get paid for their trouble.
How would I roll it out? Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission. The governor did not consult ANY sportsmen group on them. The Commercial fishermen do not have a representative which would need a to change. Also some kind of frame work for appointments revolving around consulting and the distribution stated in the RCWs they point out, and I think Ive heard of 3 that apply.
To me it’s pretty clear why they won.
“The law reserves one of the two general contracting positions for residential construction and another for commercial construction. It also requires the governor to appoint only people who have been nominated by those specific industries unless the industry fails to submit nominees. This ensures that groups impacted by the code have a role in changes made to the code and the timing of their implementation.”
I don’t see the same requirements when picking members of the fish and wildlife commission.
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
If you have listened to some of the interviews or read some of the longer articles I think its pretty well laid out. They state a couple of RCWs that are broken and they point to a lawsuit by the builders showing a rough outline of case precedence of the Governor breaking the law and a remedy. In the case of the Builders suit they got to kick off 2 people on the building commission hand pick 2 and get paid for their trouble.
How would I roll it out? Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission. The governor did not consult ANY sportsmen group on them. The Commercial fishermen do not have a representative which would need a to change. Also some kind of frame work for appointments revolving around consulting and the distribution stated in the RCWs they point out, and I think Ive heard of 3 that apply.
To me it’s pretty clear why they won.
“The law reserves one of the two general contracting positions for residential construction and another for commercial construction. It also requires the governor to appoint only people who have been nominated by those specific industries unless the industry fails to submit nominees. This ensures that groups impacted by the code have a role in changes made to the code and the timing of their implementation.”
I don’t see the same requirements when picking members of the fish and wildlife commission.
Maybe I'm talking crazy talk here, but maybe stop pointing out things that could aide in their defense...
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
If you have listened to some of the interviews or read some of the longer articles I think its pretty well laid out. They state a couple of RCWs that are broken and they point to a lawsuit by the builders showing a rough outline of case precedence of the Governor breaking the law and a remedy. In the case of the Builders suit they got to kick off 2 people on the building commission hand pick 2 and get paid for their trouble.
How would I roll it out? Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission. The governor did not consult ANY sportsmen group on them. The Commercial fishermen do not have a representative which would need a to change. Also some kind of frame work for appointments revolving around consulting and the distribution stated in the RCWs they point out, and I think Ive heard of 3 that apply.
To me it’s pretty clear why they won.
“The law reserves one of the two general contracting positions for residential construction and another for commercial construction. It also requires the governor to appoint only people who have been nominated by those specific industries unless the industry fails to submit nominees. This ensures that groups impacted by the code have a role in changes made to the code and the timing of their implementation.”
I don’t see the same requirements when picking members of the fish and wildlife commission.
Was this done?
In making these appointments, the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists.
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
If you have listened to some of the interviews or read some of the longer articles I think its pretty well laid out. They state a couple of RCWs that are broken and they point to a lawsuit by the builders showing a rough outline of case precedence of the Governor breaking the law and a remedy. In the case of the Builders suit they got to kick off 2 people on the building commission hand pick 2 and get paid for their trouble.
How would I roll it out? Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission. The governor did not consult ANY sportsmen group on them. The Commercial fishermen do not have a representative which would need a to change. Also some kind of frame work for appointments revolving around consulting and the distribution stated in the RCWs they point out, and I think Ive heard of 3 that apply.
To me it’s pretty clear why they won.
“The law reserves one of the two general contracting positions for residential construction and another for commercial construction. It also requires the governor to appoint only people who have been nominated by those specific industries unless the industry fails to submit nominees. This ensures that groups impacted by the code have a role in changes made to the code and the timing of their implementation.”
I don’t see the same requirements when picking members of the fish and wildlife commission.
Maybe I'm talking crazy talk here, but maybe stop pointing out things that could aide in their defense...
I guess we can’t talk about this because some of you guys want to have some fantasy “feels good” victory?
I wish the lawsuit the best. I don’t see the possibility of success. :sry:
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
If you have listened to some of the interviews or read some of the longer articles I think its pretty well laid out. They state a couple of RCWs that are broken and they point to a lawsuit by the builders showing a rough outline of case precedence of the Governor breaking the law and a remedy. In the case of the Builders suit they got to kick off 2 people on the building commission hand pick 2 and get paid for their trouble.
How would I roll it out? Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission. The governor did not consult ANY sportsmen group on them. The Commercial fishermen do not have a representative which would need a to change. Also some kind of frame work for appointments revolving around consulting and the distribution stated in the RCWs they point out, and I think Ive heard of 3 that apply.
To me it’s pretty clear why they won.
“The law reserves one of the two general contracting positions for residential construction and another for commercial construction. It also requires the governor to appoint only people who have been nominated by those specific industries unless the industry fails to submit nominees. This ensures that groups impacted by the code have a role in changes made to the code and the timing of their implementation.”
I don’t see the same requirements when picking members of the fish and wildlife commission.
Was this done?
In making these appointments, the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists.
In reality no.
But they call people like Lemkuhl a “lifelong hunter” as he votes with the predator starvationists every time. :bash:
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To those that are worried about the lack of muscle that our suit is likely to wield, we have some good news. We have vetted our assertions and our ability to influence the governor by 2 different attorneys.
We are also compiling the PDRs sportsmen have provided, which will speed up this process. THANK YOU!
We do need sportsmen's help in a way that only cost time and not money. Tell existing organizations you belong to about this suit, hunting, fishing or general sportsmen's club. Share the first post and tell them to join the suit. The broader the base of support the harder it is for the Legislature to ignore sportsmen's frustration with the lack of checks and balances THEY are supposed to provide! Our President has talked to several organizations that are lining up with us.
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@WWC post an update of the suit on Facebook so we can share and spread the word.
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I am all for the lawsuit, more are being discussed.
Also, "synopsis" .....
I'd buy THAT for a dollar!!! :chuckle:
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
If you have listened to some of the interviews or read some of the longer articles I think its pretty well laid out. They state a couple of RCWs that are broken and they point to a lawsuit by the builders showing a rough outline of case precedence of the Governor breaking the law and a remedy. In the case of the Builders suit they got to kick off 2 people on the building commission hand pick 2 and get paid for their trouble.
How would I roll it out? Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission. The governor did not consult ANY sportsmen group on them. The Commercial fishermen do not have a representative which would need a to change. Also some kind of frame work for appointments revolving around consulting and the distribution stated in the RCWs they point out, and I think Ive heard of 3 that apply.
To me it’s pretty clear why they won.
“The law reserves one of the two general contracting positions for residential construction and another for commercial construction. It also requires the governor to appoint only people who have been nominated by those specific industries unless the industry fails to submit nominees. This ensures that groups impacted by the code have a role in changes made to the code and the timing of their implementation.”
I don’t see the same requirements when picking members of the fish and wildlife commission.
Maybe I'm talking crazy talk here, but maybe stop pointing out things that could aide in their defense...
I guess we can’t talk about this because some of you guys want to have some fantasy “feels good” victory?
I wish the lawsuit the best. I don’t see the possibility of success. :sry:
First off I dont believe being a skeptic makes you wrong or a hater. It also appears from what WWC has said in past posts they understand sportsmen are natural skeptics, I often fit this bill myself. As much info as WWC has been sharing surely they cannot lay the cards on the table yet. The lawsuit has not been filed. I have hungered for an organization to provide some real actionable leadership.
My response to you is this. lawsuits are not cheap, and unless you can tap into the equal access to justice funds, it all comes out of your pocket. Many folks on here have thrown out ideas for what to sue for and why but they dont go anywhere because no case precedence, expensive and the result is playing a game of whack a mole. Anyone that has had to sue people takes a hard look at the cost of litigation and what you get as a result from it.
Hopefully if you don't see the merits, or the possibilities you will do one thing when its over. Join and make a decent donation when they win. :twocents:
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
If you have listened to some of the interviews or read some of the longer articles I think its pretty well laid out. They state a couple of RCWs that are broken and they point to a lawsuit by the builders showing a rough outline of case precedence of the Governor breaking the law and a remedy. In the case of the Builders suit they got to kick off 2 people on the building commission hand pick 2 and get paid for their trouble.
How would I roll it out? Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission. The governor did not consult ANY sportsmen group on them. The Commercial fishermen do not have a representative which would need a to change. Also some kind of frame work for appointments revolving around consulting and the distribution stated in the RCWs they point out, and I think Ive heard of 3 that apply.
To me it’s pretty clear why they won.
“The law reserves one of the two general contracting positions for residential construction and another for commercial construction. It also requires the governor to appoint only people who have been nominated by those specific industries unless the industry fails to submit nominees. This ensures that groups impacted by the code have a role in changes made to the code and the timing of their implementation.”
I don’t see the same requirements when picking members of the fish and wildlife commission.
Maybe I'm talking crazy talk here, but maybe stop pointing out things that could aide in their defense...
I guess we can’t talk about this because some of you guys want to have some fantasy “feels good” victory?
I wish the lawsuit the best. I don’t see the possibility of success. :sry:
So, are you of the opinion that the Building Commission had something we don't when they forced the Governor to do exactly what we're asking without ever even going to court??
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What is the desired outcome from the proposed lawsuit? :dunno:
If you have listened to some of the interviews or read some of the longer articles I think its pretty well laid out. They state a couple of RCWs that are broken and they point to a lawsuit by the builders showing a rough outline of case precedence of the Governor breaking the law and a remedy. In the case of the Builders suit they got to kick off 2 people on the building commission hand pick 2 and get paid for their trouble.
How would I roll it out? Well I would bounce about 4 of these jokers off the commission. The governor did not consult ANY sportsmen group on them. The Commercial fishermen do not have a representative which would need a to change. Also some kind of frame work for appointments revolving around consulting and the distribution stated in the RCWs they point out, and I think Ive heard of 3 that apply.
To me it’s pretty clear why they won.
“The law reserves one of the two general contracting positions for residential construction and another for commercial construction. It also requires the governor to appoint only people who have been nominated by those specific industries unless the industry fails to submit nominees. This ensures that groups impacted by the code have a role in changes made to the code and the timing of their implementation.”
I don’t see the same requirements when picking members of the fish and wildlife commission.
Maybe I'm talking crazy talk here, but maybe stop pointing out things that could aide in their defense...
I guess we can’t talk about this because some of you guys want to have some fantasy “feels good” victory?
I wish the lawsuit the best. I don’t see the possibility of success. :sry:
So, are you of the opinion that the Building Commission had something we don't when they forced the Governor to do exactly what we're asking without ever even going to court??
Yes.
That was discussed on the previous page.
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Its amazing how much money most of us spend on hunting and or fishing in one year, I am easily at 5-10k. But still hesitate to donate as little as $100 to a cause like this, even if there is a slight change of making a change it is worth it. Also guys that hunt in Idaho should well support it. Bettering hunting in Washington will most likely decrease pressure in nearby states to some degree. :twocents:
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This thread has a ton of information and discussion about the lawsuit and should be bumped.
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Its amazing how much money most of us spend on hunting and or fishing in one year, I am easily at 5-10k. But still hesitate to donate as little as $100 to a cause like this, even if there is a slight change of making a change it is worth it. Also guys that hunt in Idaho should well support it. Bettering hunting in Washington will most likely decrease pressure in nearby states to some degree. :twocents:
I'm a huge supporter of the lawsuit but I will play devil's advocate for my fellow sportsmen that are naturally a skeptic like me. I was once an enthusasic supporter of a organization with money and spending money at thier banquets. They were happy to take my money and tell us about thier good works and how much they supported hunters. Well that day came when my fellow suportsmen made the call to said organization. Turns out they didn't really support hunters and hid behind that they were a "conservation" organization and they couldn't get political. I told them to pound sand and cursed all orgs for several years. I was gun shy and IF others had a similar experience I can see why they would hold back. One of this forums members called out that this could be a fundraising ruse by a little known organization.
I do also agree snake that what is $100? A couple boxes of shells? A half dozen arrows? How can we not support that? My responce is to make them a challenge to go big when they are proven wrong.
In several of the WWC posts they ask for us sportsmen to have any other orgs we belong to support the lawsuit. The orgs I belong to are making commitments. Are you asking? Are you keeping count? I sure am. And when my previous org fails to stand it won't surprise me. Just make sure you let your orgs know what will happen if they don't show support.
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This thread has a ton of information and discussion about the lawsuit and should be bumped.
I was talking too long to respond lol
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This thread has a ton of information and discussion about the lawsuit and should be bumped.
I was talking too long to respond lol
Im just trying to keep this thread relevant while others continue to participate in a thread that really just complains about not being in VC.
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This thread has a ton of information and discussion about the lawsuit and should be bumped.
I was talking too long to respond lol
Im just trying to keep this thread relevant while others continue to participate in a thread that really just complains about not being in VC.
:chuckle:
I'm sorry I participated in that one also. :'(
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If it is something people are truly passionate about it will get traction. This thread is a prime example. Over 100 replies and closing in on 8,000 views in the advocacy board.
The other thread that started in the VC had mod reports filed on it, political shots taken and completely derailed before the halfway point of the first page.
Just nice to see one stay on track for the most part.
I hope everyone is donating to WWC and sharing the links to the WWC with friends as well as sharing a link to this thread.
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I just joined, been going to do it for a while but kept forgetting to look up their web page and actually do it.
Here's the link if anyone else wants to join: https://www.w4wc.org/membership.html
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Bumping to keep this in recent topics for the morning crowd. Lots of great information in this thread.
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The Booth at the show is right under the Aisle 300 sign in the Showplex. Get a raffle ticket to win one of four nice firearms. Only 300 tickets will be sold. Also, there's a discount of $10 off the basic membership - $15 only at the show. Get both!
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Joined WWC and forwarded this to 8 friends to try and get more support - this is exciting to see !
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Renewed my associate membership on Wednesday at the Sportsman's Show. Purchased raffle ticket from pianoman9701 on Thursday.
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We tried to join as a "Family" online this afternoon...
Using MS-Edge, I had to reload the page after I clicked on the "Online Membership Purchase Tab" as the membership options page was blank. I then completed the contact and payment info portion and I "Placed Order". That was over 2 hours ago, and the cursor is "still spinning". Obviously, the system is "busy" but I'll just let it spin until something either times out, or is accepted. Kinda a PITA...I work from home and all my other apps are working fine.
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Signed up for a membership last night at the show! It was the right thing for me to do and I am encouraging every outdoorsman I know to do the same. We have all seen what doing NOTHING has done for us. It is time to get behind ANY attempt the make things better!
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We tried to join as a "Family" online this afternoon...
Using MS-Edge, I had to reload the page after I clicked on the "Online Membership Purchase Tab" as the membership options page was blank. I then completed the contact and payment info portion and I "Placed Order". That was over 2 hours ago, and the cursor is "still spinning". Obviously, the system is "busy" but I'll just let it spin until something either times out, or is accepted. Kinda a PITA...I work from home and all my other apps are working fine.
This must be something with our Square online processing. I don't know all the ins and outs and I'm sorry for you hassle. If you or others cant do it online your extra effort doing it the old fashioned way shows your extra effort.
https://w4wc.org/uploads/3/4/7/0/34704266/membership_flyer_2018-03-10border_snoqualmie.pdf
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Just joined. Thanks!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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We tried to join as a "Family" online this afternoon...
Using MS-Edge, I had to reload the page after I clicked on the "Online Membership Purchase Tab" as the membership options page was blank. I then completed the contact and payment info portion and I "Placed Order". That was over 2 hours ago, and the cursor is "still spinning". Obviously, the system is "busy" but I'll just let it spin until something either times out, or is accepted. Kinda a PITA...I work from home and all my other apps are working fine.
This must be something with our Square online processing. I don't know all the ins and outs and I'm sorry for your hassle. If you or others can't do it online your extra effort doing it the old-fashioned, it way shows your extra effort.
https://w4wc.org/uploads/3/4/7/0/34704266/membership_flyer_2018-03-10border_snoqualmie.pdf
Re-tried to join this morning and the process was almost instantaneous. All good! :tup:
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I joined at the show yesterday.. mentioned that I have had issues with the website also. The folks running the booth were unaware of the website problems...
Unfortunately I feel the legal system is going to be the only way we are going to keep our hunting rights and its going to be expensive.
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We only have 5 tickets left for the current raffle. We will have another one for tomorrow! We also got a pile of new members! Keep spreading the word! It was good to see HW members at the booth today!
Thank you all for for the kind words and support! We had several folks that were not member here or had seen our Facebook page. Some how via word of mouth many new members walked up purchased memberships and raffle tickets because they heard of the suit!
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Great news to hear of the surge in membership, congrats!!!
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We only have 5 tickets left for the current raffle. We will have another one for tomorrow! We also got a pile of new members! Keep spreading the word! It was good to see HW members at the booth today!
Thank you all for for the kind words and support! We had several folks that were not member here or had seen our Facebook page. Some how via word of mouth many new members walked up purchased memberships and raffle tickets because they heard of the suit!
Way cool!!!! :IBCOOL:
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:tup:
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Just signed up and everything worked fine, thank you for doing this!
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We only have 5 tickets left for the current raffle. We will have another one for tomorrow! We also got a pile of new members! Keep spreading the word! It was good to see HW members at the booth today!
Thank you all for for the kind words and support! We had several folks that were not member here or had seen our Facebook page. Some how via word of mouth many new members walked up purchased memberships and raffle tickets because they heard of the suit!
That's good news.
FYI: I'll pledge at least a $200.00 contribution now for when this suit starts moving forward and is filed.
You might check into one of the crowdfunding platforms, this one says for any purpose: https://www.spotfund.com/
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https://www.w4wc.org/membership.html
Just joined
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Keeping this one at the top... kinda important
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We only have 5 tickets left for the current raffle. We will have another one for tomorrow! We also got a pile of new members! Keep spreading the word! It was good to see HW members at the booth today!
Thank you all for for the kind words and support! We had several folks that were not member here or had seen our Facebook page. Some how via word of mouth many new members walked up purchased memberships and raffle tickets because they heard of the suit!
Who is actually running WWC? Are there meetings for members after we join?
I found the directors tab. I missed that in my initial review.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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What's up with this?
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Just joined. Thanks for your effort.
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I spoke at the Clallam Co. Republicans event on Saturday about this issue. I believe we got a nice surge in memberships. Thank all of you for joining, too. :tup:
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Any update on the lawsuit?
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Any update on the lawsuit?
:yeah:
Gary
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Any news or updates as to whether the case is still going forward, was quietly dropped, or what is happening at this point?
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A new attorney was hired. That's all I know at this point.
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A very successful membership drive. :tup:
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We still need to raise about $40K. If any of you guys belong to local sporting clubs or organizations which would benefit from having a sane Wildlife Commission, get in touch through our website, www.w4wc.org.
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We know this has been a long time coming. Everything happens for a reason. While none of us have enjoyed the amount of time it has taken to file, we are now on the record. We started down this path because sportsmen yearned for leadership. The Actions of the Commission between when we first announced we would sue and now has highlighted why we must fight back with full force now. Litigation against the governor is no trifle thing. We have hired Lane & Powell to represent YOU, a proven firm that is not buffaloed or intimidated by the governor. Many groups have sued the state over wildlife issues, but this suit will have a profuse affect on the future of sportsmen in this state.
We need your help in 3 ways. 1 Your membership and donations. 2 An invitation to speak to your sportsman's organization to explain the situation and add them to our rank. 3 Spread the word to all your sportsmen friends. Share our FB posts, articles about the lawsuit, or while out enjoying our amazing sporting heritage.
Send a to us here with contact info or via FB if your organization would like a representative to speak to your organization about joining our fight.
http://w4wc.org/membership.html
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-5-fish-and-wildlife-commissioners-sued/?fbclid=IwAR39fbZuNi5i3T8qOGnRjptTrbRKvKalbmgJT2KOkrBxwq2fGmZET7Ewfdc
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Well done, Mark et al. Let's rock and roll.
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I hope everybody who just got done dropping hundreds of dollars on applications for little crumbs of opportunity are willing to throw some hard earned cash down to fight this illegal commission and hopefully improve the outlook of hunting in WA state. :tup:
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Does 100% of funds donated go directly to legal bills for the lawsuit?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Just donated another $100 to the cause.
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Just ordered up a membership.
Lets do this!
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Just signed up a family membership.
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joined!
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We are proud to announce that the Washington State Archery Association has contributed $2000 to the lawsuit from their Bowhunters Defence fund. Most archery. Clubs/ranges belong to the WSAA. The WSAA facilitates the competitive archery tournaments in this state, has a member on the GMAC, and they have been a member of WWC for several years.
https://washingtonstatearchery.org/
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WSAA is a great group - another that I belong to. I'm so glad to hear their contribution.
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Anyone have a link to the Complaint?
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Someone posted it on another thread. I'll try to find it.
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Someone posted it on another thread. I'll try to find it.
The Lawsuit Synopsis is on the first post if that's what you are looking for.
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That'll do, thanks buddy.
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Here you go.
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Thank you!
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Washington Wildlife First is claiming a victory that this lawsuit has been dismissed by a judge with prejudice in Thurston County. Any news?
Gary
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Washington Wildlife First is claiming a victory that this lawsuit has been dismissed by a judge with prejudice in Thurston County. Any news?
Gary
And what do you know, the judge was appointed by Inslee in 2021 and has a horrible reputation
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Washington Wildlife First is claiming a victory that this lawsuit has been dismissed by a judge with prejudice in Thurston County. Any news?
Gary
And what do you know, the judge was appointed by Inslee in 2021 and has a horrible reputation
Imagine that.
Gary
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Maybe there was a legal reason the lawsuit got tossed?
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Any links to news articles or such talking about this?
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From their Facebook page:
Last week, a Thurston County judge dismissed a suit by an ironically named hunting group, “Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation,” against Governor Jay Inslee and five Washington Fish and Wildlife Commissioners. The lawsuit sought to have those commissioners removed, complaining that they failed to prioritize the interests of the approximately 2% of Washingtonians who hunt over concerns about conservation—and the interests and values of the other 98% of the state population. Judge Indu Thomas dismissed the suit with prejudice, meaning the group cannot refile.
Hunting groups nationwide continue to vent their rage over the Commission’s ending of Washington’s recreational spring bear hunt last year, which forced the tiny percentage of hunters who participated in that hunt to wait one to two more months until the “fall” black bear hunting season opening in August. Black bears were the only species other than cougars or turkeys that the state allowed to be hunted in the spring, when wild animals are recovering from winter and raising their young. Studies show spring hunts inevitably orphan newborn bear cubs and leave them to die of starvation. Washington was one of only nine states that still allowed spring bear hunting, and 80% of Washington voters and 69% of Washington hunting households opposed the hunt. Nevertheless, state and national hunting groups have been trying to use this vote to whip up a “culture war” frenzy.
Join Washington Wildlife First to let the Commissioners know that these fringe hunting groups do not represent Washington, and that you support efforts to prioritize conservation over consumption. www.wawildlifefirst.org
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Thanks.
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From their Facebook page:
Last week, a Thurston County judge dismissed a suit by an ironically named hunting group, “Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation,” against Governor Jay Inslee and five Washington Fish and Wildlife Commissioners. The lawsuit sought to have those commissioners removed, complaining that they failed to prioritize the interests of the approximately 2% of Washingtonians who hunt over concerns about conservation—and the interests and values of the other 98% of the state population. Judge Indu Thomas dismissed the suit with prejudice, meaning the group cannot refile.
Hunting groups nationwide continue to vent their rage over the Commission’s ending of Washington’s recreational spring bear hunt last year, which forced the tiny percentage of hunters who participated in that hunt to wait one to two more months until the “fall” black bear hunting season opening in August. Black bears were the only species other than cougars or turkeys that the state allowed to be hunted in the spring, when wild animals are recovering from winter and raising their young. Studies show spring hunts inevitably orphan newborn bear cubs and leave them to die of starvation. Washington was one of only nine states that still allowed spring bear hunting, and 80% of Washington voters and 69% of Washington hunting households opposed the hunt. Nevertheless, state and national hunting groups have been trying to use this vote to whip up a “culture war” frenzy.
Join Washington Wildlife First to let the Commissioners know that these fringe hunting groups do not represent Washington, and that you support efforts to prioritize conservation over consumption. www.wawildlifefirst.org
They don't leave much doubt about their positions and objectives.
https://wawildlifefirst.org/wdfw_reform/
WDFW ignores science.
WDFW promotes unethical hunting.
WDFW’s first response is to kill animals.
WDFW has betrayed the public trust.
WDFW is out of step with Washington values.
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I think I just puked in my mouth a little bit reading that. Was that our only chance then?
Sure do hope all the large predator on human Attacks that are going to spike in the next decade happen to all of these people that are supporting this kind of garbage. Maybe when they see up close and personal how cute and cuddly these are and how we just need to preserve them so they can eat our children and our pets they will pull their head out of the sand.
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I think I just puked in my mouth a little bit reading that. Was that our only chance then?
Sure do hope all the large predator on human Attacks that are going to spike in the next decade happen to all of these people that are supporting this kind of garbage. Maybe when they see up close and personal how cute and cuddly these are and how we just need to preserve them so they can eat our children and our pets they will pull their head out of the sand.
No, the sportsmen’s alliance lawsuits are coming. They raised over $60k at Skookum and are doing more events. Those guys are handing it much beyyer and can sue them for dozens of issues. Those guys have won cases across the country and have done lots of research and hard work. Have faith in them!!
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Maybe it is time to look at a different angle, and go after trying to stop the damage hunts by timber companies then for the same reasons hunters are restricted in the spring.
I know that there are State & Federal agencies that would step in, but the wording of that little Facebook blurp is clearly meant to imply that those same bears won't be killed and those same cubs orphaned before the fall season, which is not true. Timber damage hunts are meant to kill bears, simple as that.
Also bring into light that those government agencies use leg hold snares in addition to dogs and get the whole story in front of people instead of very sanitized and emotion laced versions such as this.
A video of a bear in a state or fed snare struggling to get out would go a long ways just like those you-tube videos used to shut down hounds & trapping with leg holds did. Somebody, some where knows where this is happening, just have to be willing to get out and try and catch one on video in a snare before it is removed.
It was clear when the bait & hound initiative was wriiten by the anti's, they specifically excluded the timber industry because they did want to fight that level of resistance, much easier to go after the weaker and lower on the food chain source portion that sportsman carry in the political influence arena.
Just a thought, may not have any impact in the end, but if you go after the big money timber industry, there is some political clout & lobby potential and at the least it shows the whole story and not the highly edited version being spoon fed to the public now.
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I'd like WWC to share their side of the story. Apparently this is week old news.
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I'd like WWC to share their side of the story. Apparently this is week old news.
This
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Maybe it is time to look at a different angle, and go after trying to stop the damage hunts by timber companies then for the same reasons hunters are restricted in the spring.
I know that there are State & Federal agencies that would step in, but the wording of that little Facebook blurp is clearly meant to imply that those same bears won't be killed and those same cubs orphaned before the fall season, which is not true. Timber damage hunts are meant to kill bears, simple as that.
Also bring into light that those government agencies use leg hold snares in addition to dogs and get the whole story in front of people instead of very sanitized and emotion laced versions such as this.
A video of a bear in a state or fed snare struggling to get out would go a long ways just like those you-tube videos used to shut down hounds & trapping with leg holds did. Somebody, some where knows where this is happening, just have to be willing to get out and try and catch one on video in a snare before it is removed.
It was clear when the bait & hound initiative was wriiten by the anti's, they specifically excluded the timber industry because they did want to fight that level of resistance, much easier to go after the weaker and lower on the food chain source portion that sportsman carry in the political influence arena.
Just a thought, may not have any impact in the end, but if you go after the big money timber industry, there is some political clout & lobby potential and at the least it shows the whole story and not the highly edited version being spoon fed to the public now.
Surely hopping on board with the anti's and doing away with any form of predator population control, regardless of the purpose/justification would be good for the sportsman... :rolleyes:
That's one of the dumbest things I've seen uttered on here in a while...
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Or it shows that they are not being honest and gets a large, well-funded and politically strong entity into the fight?
Not that they would lose, but it seems it would clearly show that what the commissioners use to justify their decisions are neither true nor fact based. Dead sows and orphaned cubs are the same whether killed by a hunter in June or a timber company in July, dead & orphaned is still dead & orphaned.
It shows that the Commission is not being honest and using select and highly emotion based statements that the reason for no spring bear is dead mommies leaving starving babies when the timber companies are doing the same thing.
It may force them off that stance if evidence is shown that it still happens, is approved and they (the Commission) choose to just hide it from the general public and lie by about the real reasons they are doing what they are doing...
But hey, think small and continue to loose, right?
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most timber companies are not for sportsman these days. trying to ban any sort of hunting is not a good play.
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“Signed” 10 days ago by Inslee himself. Sounds like Lorna needs to get her stuff straight.
Go get ‘em, @saylean
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230923/6df18b2ba03c34ec50e0ccae0c899103.jpg)
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Not suggesting that it would be stopped or even trying to as I don't think the timber companies would lose out because of the influence they have.
What I am saying is it would show that the Commission is not being honest with the public when it says we stopped spring bear and this was because we wanted to protect sows & cubs, yet they are or should be aware of the fact that those same bears are still being killed.
That would be a way to prove the Commission is anti hunting, working against hunters and not being truthful when they state the reason for their actions.
Taking a shot hear and guessing the general public is not aware of what goes on and just assumes since the Commission is appointed by the Gov, they will be honest, are well educated in the position to the level of expert and therefore are trusted to do what is right.
So, you present real, verifiable evidence that the actions they take have no change in this case on sows being killed in the spring/summer and being done with WDFW authorization, you show that the Commission is misleading and not doing what they should be doing and instead promoting a personal agenda with lies and deception to the general public.
That is all I was trying to say, put some real evidence and proof out there, no way the timber companies lose the ability to kill bears to protect trees, but puts the Commission on the defense to explain why they want to stop sportsmen from selectively taking bears as most spring bear permit hunter took boars if I remember the previous stats correctly. And timber company hunts target all bears in a damage area and that includes those sows that the Commission accuses spring hunters of killing and therefore should be restricted.
That is as clear as I can explain what I was saying, if it still is not understood, sorry.
Kill your bears this year because it will likely be the last time it looks like until something forces change.
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Their logic of ending spring bear because of orphaned cubs doesn't hold water. Wasn't their only 1 sow killed with cubs during the whole spring bear hunt? I know of 2 sows with cubs killed on the highway the past 2 years. So let's ban vehicles on highways.
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I think I just puked in my mouth a little bit reading that. Was that our only chance then?
Sure do hope all the large predator on human Attacks that are going to spike in the next decade happen to all of these people that are supporting this kind of garbage. Maybe when they see up close and personal how cute and cuddly these are and how we just need to preserve them so they can eat our children and our pets they will pull their head out of the sand.
No, the sportsmen’s alliance lawsuits are coming. They raised over $60k at Skookum and are doing more events. Those guys are handing it much beyyer and can sue them for dozens of issues. Those guys have won cases across the country and have done lots of research and hard work. Have faith in them!!
Correct, this isn't the time to back down... Sportsmans Alliance is fully onboard and this is what they do... I know of 3 events in the planning stages right now in Western Washington... more info to follow.
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This is a very disappointing judgement from Judge Indu Thomas Thurston County Superior Court. We just received our copy as the court takes about a week to post it.
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Refusing to issue a writ of mandamus to the governor is ridiculous. He is clearly ignoring the RCWs of the state and the court should compel him to comply. Terrible ruling. I'd like to know how this judge has ruled on other cases involving hunting, wildlife conservation, and animal rights. :bash:
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:bash:
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Refusing to issue a writ of mandamus to the governor is ridiculous. He is clearly ignoring the RCWs of the state and the court should compel him to comply. Terrible ruling. I'd like to know how this judge has ruled on other cases involving hunting, wildlife conservation, and animal rights. :bash:
Jay appointmented her. Did anyone think she would rule against him or his people..
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Bought and paid for
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Bought and paid for
Dont forget protected.
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Bought and paid for
Dont forget protected.
Yep and yep
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Steve Rinella on the lastest Meat Eater podcast Episode "Inslee is my new least favorite governor in the US"
It sounds like they're going to be putting together an entire episode dedicated to WA hunting issues.
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This podcast with Randy Newberg, Kris Cantrell and James Forslund was pretty good.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5Zd9PlV7bpRw8NeBITlQLF?si=dcb89958abea47d6
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So what happens now? Is there a next move?
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So what happens now? Is there a next move?
There are other lawsuits through different org’s that are still in motion.
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Judge Thomas was appointed by Inslee to a newly created 9th seat on the county supreme court in 2021. Her background is family law and if you are in Thurston county with a hint of marital trouble move. Men do not fair well before her.
She ran for a judge seat in 2012 and lost to Eric Prince for position#4. This feels like a gut punch that has political fingerprints all over it. Politics is a full contact sport, and a gut punch knocks the wind out of you but doesn't end a fight.
https://www.trialnewsonline.org/trialnews/library/item/february_2022/3990146/
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Is there a next best step for the WWC in this or does this mean they’re done?
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Is there a next best step for the WWC in this or does this mean they’re done?
From what I heard the lawsuit cant be appealed but I think this could really damage them beyond the point of return. I hope not but you never know.
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Is there a next best step for the WWC in this or does this mean they’re done?
That's a really good question. The case was dismissed with prejudice which I belive means it cannot be refiled. Can it be appealed? :dunno:
The fact is even the legal system is political and since when you sue the state it has to be done in TCSC which is the politicians home court advantage.
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Not a lawyer but from what I understand the ruling of a judge to dismiss with prejudice can be appealed. It cannot however be refiled after fixing problems with the original suit.
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I hope BigTex will weigh in with his thoughts
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Not a lawyer but from what I understand the ruling of a judge to dismiss with prejudice can be appealed. It cannot however be refiled after fixing problems with the original suit.
Okay, I was not aware that it could be appealed. Being brutally honest, the lawsuit didn't have momentum and you never heard folks talk about it, not like how people are talking about sportsmen alliance. I applaud those who took action, not a lot of folks will do something like that.
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As I stated before, I don’t understand why anyone thought this lawsuit had a chance.
It was a great fundraising drive. All you have to say is “we are suing the governor” and people start opening their wallets. I am sure this tactic will continue to be used successfully in the future. :tup:
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As I stated before, I don’t understand why anyone thought this lawsuit had a chance.
It was a great fundraising drive. All you have to say is “we are suing the governor” and people start opening their wallets. I am sure this tactic will continue to be used successfully in the future. :tup:
I take offense to your statement that it was some kind of fundraising drive. I know many of the folks that have been working on this. They passed on several avenues of litigation, including the same kind of suit that Sportsmen Alliance pursued against Lorna. Why? Because they didn't think a game of whackamole with expensive lawyers was worth everyone's time or hard earned money. WWC has ZERO paid staff. Many of the Board of Directors have contributed in time and personal money to this endeavor. Do you think they didn't spend the money on lawyers? Do you have any idea how much they spent or know what Lane and Powell charges?
It appears you are right this didn't have a chance. I'm happy to support a group that doesn't sit on thier hands and not fight back. I was happy to contribute money even though it's not the outcome I wanted. I was once someone who only bitched and whined about the WDFW and it got me nowhere. Hopefully your doing something productive to protect hunting.
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:yeah: Sometimes its better if you dont have anything good to say or of valued input its better to keep it to yourself. At least there is a group willing to fight for your rights to hunt here.
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I am glad there are some people who are willing to at least try, without at least trying we have no chance!
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!
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“Signed” 10 days ago by Inslee himself. Sounds like Lorna needs to get her stuff straight.
Go get ‘em, @saylean
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230923/6df18b2ba03c34ec50e0ccae0c899103.jpg)
Is this real? I'm so confused.
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“Signed” 10 days ago by Inslee himself. Sounds like Lorna needs to get her stuff straight.
Go get ‘em, @saylean
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230923/6df18b2ba03c34ec50e0ccae0c899103.jpg)
Is this real? I'm so confused.
yes https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/ (https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/)
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“Signed” 10 days ago by Inslee himself. Sounds like Lorna needs to get her stuff straight.
Go get ‘em, @saylean
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230923/6df18b2ba03c34ec50e0ccae0c899103.jpg)
Is this real? I'm so confused.
yes https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/ (https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/)
Wow. Mind blown. This is a very good thing is it not? At least he acknowledges the importance of hunting and fishing to our states culture.
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975,000 hunters and anglers is a lot more than the 2 percent of the population that is claimed by Washington Wildlife First. Not surprising.
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As I stated before, I don’t understand why anyone thought this lawsuit had a chance.
It was a great fundraising drive. All you have to say is “we are suing the governor” and people start opening their wallets. I am sure this tactic will continue to be used successfully in the future. :tup:
You are exercising an extremely limited and pessimistic outlook. Luckily, there are those who believe that somehow, there's a way to make the governor obey the laws of the state.
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“Signed” 10 days ago by Inslee himself. Sounds like Lorna needs to get her stuff straight.
Go get ‘em, @saylean
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230923/6df18b2ba03c34ec50e0ccae0c899103.jpg)
Is this real? I'm so confused.
yes https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/ (https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/)
Wow. Mind blown. This is a very good thing is it not? At least he acknowledges the importance of hunting and fishing to our states culture.
We have one of those celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Washington State Trappers Association signed by Insley. I doubt if even reads what he is signing.
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“Signed” 10 days ago by Inslee himself. Sounds like Lorna needs to get her stuff straight.
Go get ‘em, @saylean
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230923/6df18b2ba03c34ec50e0ccae0c899103.jpg)
Is this real? I'm so confused.
yes https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/ (https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/)
Wow. Mind blown. This is a very good thing is it not? At least he acknowledges the importance of hunting and fishing to our states culture.
We have one of those celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Washington State Trappers Association signed by Insley. I doubt if even reads what he is signing.
I would’ve guessed it’s a stamp. Did he actually sign it?
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“Signed” 10 days ago by Inslee himself. Sounds like Lorna needs to get her stuff straight.
Go get ‘em, @saylean
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230923/6df18b2ba03c34ec50e0ccae0c899103.jpg)
Is this real? I'm so confused.
yes https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/ (https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/)
Wow. Mind blown. This is a very good thing is it not? At least he acknowledges the importance of hunting and fishing to our states culture.
We have one of those celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Washington State Trappers Association signed by Insley. I doubt if even reads what he is signing.
I would’ve guessed it’s a stamp. Did he actually sign it?
I think you are right about the stamp. I haven't seen it in a couple of years.
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“Signed” 10 days ago by Inslee himself. Sounds like Lorna needs to get her stuff straight.
Go get ‘em, @saylean
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230923/6df18b2ba03c34ec50e0ccae0c899103.jpg)
Is this real? I'm so confused.
yes https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/ (https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/)
Wow. Mind blown. This is a very good thing is it not? At least he acknowledges the importance of hunting and fishing to our states culture.
We have one of those celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Washington State Trappers Association signed by Insley. I doubt if even reads what he is signing.
I would’ve guessed it’s a stamp. Did he actually sign it?
I think you are right about the stamp. I haven't seen it in a couple of years.
Stamped or not, it's his administration signing it and he's not even up for reelection. I feel like this should be a bigger story here.
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I wouldn't get all warm and fuzzy about a stamped fishing and hunting day by ole Jay..
It's not the first time he's done it...I think it goes back 7-8 years if I recall...
And isn't he just echoing the federal proclamation....
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He could of least made it September 15.
New grouse opening.
Just saying.
Why doesn't he sign or stamp a paper that gives me hunting and fishing rights instead of privilege.
Isn't worth the paper it's written on ,with his name.
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I wouldn't get all warm and fuzzy about a stamped fishing and hunting day by ole Jay..
It's not the first time he's done it...I think it goes back 7-8 years if I recall...
And isn't he just echoing the federal proclamation....
:yeah:
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I am going to copy this "edict" and distribute it to every hunter ed class I teach and any WDFW meeting I attend.
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Do you think he sent a copy to the commission?
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Do you think he sent a copy to the commission?
Everyone here should email it to them.
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Do you think he sent a copy to the commission?
If not, I think we should all send this individually to the commission. Lest they forget....
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“Signed” 10 days ago by Inslee himself. Sounds like Lorna needs to get her stuff straight.
Go get ‘em, @saylean
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230923/6df18b2ba03c34ec50e0ccae0c899103.jpg)
Is this real? I'm so confused.
yes https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/ (https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-declares-this-saturday-hunting-and-fishing-day-in-washington/)
Wow. Mind blown. This is a very good thing is it not? At least he acknowledges the importance of hunting and fishing to our states culture.
We have one of those celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Washington State Trappers Association signed by Insley. I doubt if even reads what he is signing.
I would’ve guessed it’s a stamp. Did he actually sign it?
I think you are right about the stamp. I haven't seen it in a couple of years.
Stamped or not, it's his administration signing it and he's not even up for reelection. I feel like this should be a bigger story here.
"and last year alone, Wa. sportsmen and women generated nearly $92 billion to support the conservation efforts of WDFW"
$92 billion? last year?
That has to be a mistake, that would be $92,000 per licensed hunter/angler.
How much gear are you guys buying?????
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Going with nationwide numbers it seems:
https://rmef.org/elk-network/hunting-is-conservation-the-economy-of-wild-game/#:~:text=Hunting%20%7C%20September%2030%2C%202021&text=National%20studies%20show%20hunters%20pump,spend%20nearly%20%2494%20billion%20annually.
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So there is a secretary that makes the commision selections for the governor in his office. She selects them and he rubber stamps it. I don't remeber her name but she is anti hunting. As far as him signing the proclamation for National Hunting and Fishing Day. He has done that for years.
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
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So there is a secretary that makes the commision selections for the governor in his office. She selects them and he rubber stamps it. I don't remeber her name but she is anti hunting. As far as him signing the proclamation for National Hunting and Fishing Day. He has done that for years.
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
She is not a secretary.
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I am not sure what her official title is but what ever it is I believe that she should not be making those choices.
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
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I am not sure what her official title is but what ever it is I believe that she should be making those choices.
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
Do you mean to say "she should not be making those choices?"
Maybe she is an avenue that should be looked at a little closer, just to see what and how much influence she has on the process and see if anything odd jumps up, or connections to anti groups and the Commission members individually.
Every string needs pulled to see what unravels I would say...
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I am not sure what her official title is but what ever it is I believe that she should be making those choices.
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
Do you mean to say "she should not be making those choices?"
Maybe she is an avenue that should be looked at a little closer, just to see what and how much influence she has on the process and see if anything odd jumps up, or connections to anti groups and the Commission members individually.
Every string needs pulled to see what unravels I would say...
Corrected thanks
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
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So there is a secretary that makes the commision selections for the governor in his office. She selects them and he rubber stamps it. I don't remeber her name but she is anti hunting. As far as him signing the proclamation for National Hunting and Fishing Day. He has done that for years.
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
She is not a secretary.
Got a name?
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So there is a secretary that makes the commision selections for the governor in his office. She selects them and he rubber stamps it. I don't remeber her name but she is anti hunting. As far as him signing the proclamation for National Hunting and Fishing Day. He has done that for years.
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
She is not a secretary.
I had an encounter with her back at the June meeting. Ruth Musgrave. She is a major anti and her daughter is following in her footsteps by speaking at commission meetings. While this is probably to get hunters off their ass and Inslee is still full of crap it gives us a ton of ammo regardless.
Got a name?
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So there is a secretary that makes the commision selections for the governor in his office. She selects them and he rubber stamps it. I don't remeber her name but she is anti hunting. As far as him signing the proclamation for National Hunting and Fishing Day. He has done that for years.
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
She is not a secretary.
Got a name?
I think I said in my post that I did not remember her name but I think someone just came up with it.
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
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https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-has-new-senior-natural-resource-policy-advisor/ (https://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-has-new-senior-natural-resource-policy-advisor/)
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A little bit of background info on her:
http://www.ncelenviro.org/personnel/ruth-musgrave/
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A little bit of background info on her:
http://www.ncelenviro.org/personnel/ruth-musgrave/
She has been at some of the commission meetings this summer.
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A little bit of background info on her:
http://www.ncelenviro.org/personnel/ruth-musgrave/
She has been at some of the commission meetings this summer.
Yep, had an encounter with her back in June. I know she's tried to present herself as an ally to hunters and I know some guys have fallen for her act. Her daughter is being groomed to take over, she's speaking at meetings as well. All this stuff has been planned out for years. We need to do whatever we can to stop this. Donate to those suing, VOTE VOTE VOTE, and speak up and get involved!! I'm going to say this, may ruffle some feathers but if you don't vote or don't want to get involve don't whine.
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JT Austin was the Natural Resources advisor for Inslee before Musgrave. JT was responsible for most of these clowns and illegal appointment's and made a hasty disappearance. JT was likely the party to which a bunch of the illegal appointment's could be point at.
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JT Austin was the Natural Resources advisor for Inslee before Musgrave. JT was responsible for most of these clowns and illegal appointment's and made a hasty disappearance. JT was likely the party to which a bunch of the illegal appointment's could be point at.
What makes the appointments “illegal”? :dunno:
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September 27, 2023
Assistant Attorney General Joseph Panesko filed a motion to dismiss with the Thurston County
Superior Court to dismiss the Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation lawsuit. That motion was
heard by Judge Indu Thomas on Friday, September 15, 2023. Judge Thomas agreed with the
defendants and dismissed our lawsuit in its entirety, giving two reasons.
1. That WWC as a non-profit did not having standing to sue; and
2. The Governor had a wide range of discretion in making appointments.
This defies all logic and reason. We based our case on the Builders successfully suing the Governor
and the building council. Our attorney, Callie Castillo of Lane Powell, represented the Building
Industry. How did the BIAW, a non-profit for political action on behalf of the building industry,
like HHC is for the hunters, have standing to sue the Governor and the building council, yet WWC
lack the same standing?
The judge also ruled that the Governor's discretion overrules the balance doctrine in RCW
77.04.040. RCW 77.04.040 say that the Governor needs to reach out to all user groups and make
sure the Commission is balanced. This ruling just said the Governor’s discretion overrides the
balance doctrine of the RCW.
Our legal team was outstanding in every way. They were professional, well-prepared, intelligent,
and great to work with. I will sing their praises. Callie Castillo is a phenomenal attorney and so is
her legal team. Going to court isn’t a guarantee of victory. We went to court and we showed the
Commission, WDFW, and the animal-right groups that we were willing to sue, something that the
hunting community had never done before. Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation isn’t done
with the legal route, we have kept Callie Castillo and Lane Powell on retainer for possible future
legal action.
WWC isn’t just going to stick to the courts. We’re the unified sporting community. We’re going
to recruit new activists and train members of our existing membership base. We are going to
teach new techniques to become more effective in the fight. We will always be THE leaders in
the outdoor community.
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Are there any future plans for future legal action or is this the end of it?
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I think future donations and the finite amount of money we as hunters have would be better served going to other, more established sportsmen groups at this point like the sportsmens alliance, HOWL for wildlife, etc. React how you will to that but when you lose the big game before it even starts you find a new quarterback. This issue is too important for this not to be brought up on here.
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Is it a bad idea to consider joining forces with other groups like Sportsmen’s alliance in this fight? Is there logic in one big fight with a bunch of $$ combined rather than a few little ones?
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Is it a bad idea to consider joining forces with other groups like Sportsmen’s alliance in this fight? Is there logic in one big fight with a bunch of $$ combined rather than a few little ones?
I think that is good idea in this situation. Trouble is getting all the egos to work together.
Someone has to lead and everyone has to follow.
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Is it a bad idea to consider joining forces with other groups like Sportsmen’s alliance in this fight? Is there logic in one big fight with a bunch of $$ combined rather than a few little ones?
It is my understanding that joining the WWC lawsuit was pitched to several national organizations including SA. They wanted a multi pronged attack so didn't sign on. I personally think they have a different strategy because they have in house council. That doesn't make that strategy better or worse just different. WWC doesn't have any paid staff so they have to hire out legal council. I dont know of any national orgs that have signed onto the SA alliance either. Im not sure if its ego so much as its defending funding and memberships. Sportsmen don't spread their $ around like the antis do, nor do the National hunting orgs work together as well compared to the antis.
I think the dismissal of the WWC case is political. I stated why I think that, and the WWC letter states a couple of other reasons that back my assertion. Sadly this point of attack seems gone. The Antis dont give up when they lose, nor do they talk poorly about other orgs that pull in the same direction. SA is right insofar as a multi pronged attack diverts attention from their mission and can put them on the defense. They dont cry about a loss they just use it to stir up more support. Sportsmen wont find the silver bullet. WWC took an ambitious shot at making a major move against the anti hunting movement and failed. As hunters we learn from our failures, WWC members and BOD members are as well.
I cant wait to find out which orgs take the fight to the Antis with the kinds of tactics they have used for a long time. I cant wait to be a part of it!
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I think future donations and the finite amount of money we as hunters have would be better served going to other, more established sportsmen groups at this point like the sportsmens alliance, HOWL for wildlife, etc. React how you will to that but when you lose the big game before it even starts you find a new quarterback. This issue is too important for this not to be brought up on here.
Antis spread thier money around more freely than we do. They are idealistic zealots that we could learn something from. perhaps we should learn to enjoy our fight with them as much as chasing the game we love. If we dont we might loose both.
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Is it a bad idea to consider joining forces with other groups like Sportsmen’s alliance in this fight? Is there logic in one big fight with a bunch of $$ combined rather than a few little ones?
It is my understanding that joining the WWC lawsuit was pitched to several national organizations including SA. They wanted a multi pronged attack so didn't sign on. I personally think they have a different strategy because they have in house council. That doesn't make that strategy better or worse just different. WWC doesn't have any paid staff so they have to hire out legal council. I dont know of any national orgs that have signed onto the SA alliance either. Im not sure if its ego so much as its defending funding and memberships. Sportsmen don't spread their $ around like the antis do, nor do the National hunting orgs work together as well compared to the antis.
I think the dismissal of the WWC case is political. I stated why I think that, and the WWC letter states a couple of other reasons that back my assertion. Sadly this point of attack seems gone. The Antis dont give up when they lose, nor do they talk poorly about other orgs that pull in the same direction. SA is right insofar as a multi pronged attack diverts attention from their mission and can put them on the defense. They dont cry about a loss they just use it to stir up more support. Sportsmen wont find the silver bullet. WWC took an ambitious shot at making a major move against the anti hunting movement and failed. As hunters we learn from our failures, WWC members and BOD members are as well.
I cant wait to find out which orgs take the fight to the Antis with the kinds of tactics they have used for a long time. I cant wait to be a part of it!
Gotcha. Thanks.
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JT Austin was the Natural Resources advisor for Inslee before Musgrave. JT was responsible for most of these clowns and illegal appointment's and made a hasty disappearance. JT was likely the party to which a bunch of the illegal appointment's could be point at.
What makes the appointments “illegal”? :dunno:
Well the fact that the governor didn't follow RCW 77.04.040 which stated sportsmen groups need to be consulted, Balance between the stakeholders is necessary...
Now apparently this appointed judge thinks that this RCW can be ignored because The govenor has wide latitude in selection of appointments. Ironically I dont think the names of the commissioners that were selected were ever on a public list that sportsmen could have vetted... I wonder if that could have been one of the pieces of evidence for the case.. Or perhaps they were scared of discovery that would revel the daming communications between the Govenor, JT Austin, and Anti hunting groups.
I can only assume that you havent ready anything that WWC or others have posted on this issue, or the court filings because its all in those documents even if you disagree... But a trail wont take place so the point is moot.
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Ruth serves on boards of directors or advisory boards of several national wildlife organizations, and manages a charitable foundation for wildlife and domestic animals. Seems to me there is a conflict of interest going on. ruth@ncelenviro.org
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JT Austin was the Natural Resources advisor for Inslee before Musgrave. JT was responsible for most of these clowns and illegal appointment's and made a hasty disappearance. JT was likely the party to which a bunch of the illegal appointment's could be point at.
What makes the appointments “illegal”? :dunno:
Well the fact that the governor didn't follow RCW 77.04.040 which stated sportsmen groups need to be consulted, Balance between the stakeholders is necessary...
Now apparently this appointed judge thinks that this RCW can be ignored because The govenor has wide latitude in selection of appointments. Ironically I dont think the names of the commissioners that were selected were ever on a public list that sportsmen could have vetted... I wonder if that could have been one of the pieces of evidence for the case.. Or perhaps they were scared of discovery that would revel the daming communications between the Govenor, JT Austin, and Anti hunting groups.
I can only assume that you havent ready anything that WWC or others have posted on this issue, or the court filings because its all in those documents even if you disagree... But a trail wont take place so the point is moot.
There is another RCW 77.04.040 that wasn't being followed either. It states that to be appointed to the commision, you can not hold another state, county, or municipal appointive office. I believe that is a lawsuit that was brought up on Lorna Smith. She was on a county planning commision when she was appointed and was not following the rcw. She has resigned that position to appease that lawsuit. I believe one of the other was on the commision but is no longer was also appointed not followong the rcw.
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
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I don’t think I saw an answer if the judges ruling can be appealed? The 2 ruling reasons do not make any sense.
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A ruling "with prejudice" can't be appealed or brought again before the same court. Any ruling can be appealed to a higher court. That doesn't mean that the higher court will accept the appeal. That is my understanding.
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So there is a secretary that makes the commision selections for the governor in his office. She selects them and he rubber stamps it. I don't remeber her name but she is anti hunting. As far as him signing the proclamation for National Hunting and Fishing Day. He has done that for years.
Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
:yeah:
Not a secretary but rather his natural resource advisor. The governor often makes close to 100 commission/board appointments per month. If you think he's sifting thru all their applications and making selections you're wrong. It's his numerous advisors who do the selections and his name is simply added as the signatory official.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
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Time to make her aware we are on to her antics
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What's her name and email address? Should be public record.
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Time to bestow some unpleasantness into her each and every day.
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Ruth Musgrave
Senior Policy Advisor, Natural Resources
360-522-6031
ruth.musgrave@gov.wa.gov
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Bingo
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Ruth Musgrave
Senior Policy Advisor, Natural Resources
360-522-6031
ruth.musgrave@gov.wa.gov
Let’s make sure we leave it at that. We don’t allow sharing of personal information, regardless of who it is. This info is fine as it’s her state employee info.
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Ruth Musgrave
Senior Policy Advisor, Natural Resources
360-522-6031
ruth.musgrave@gov.wa.gov
Let’s make sure we leave it at that. We don’t allow sharing of personal information, regardless of who it is. This info is fine as it’s her state employee info.
Yep, public information.
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Ruth Musgrave
Senior Policy Advisor, Natural Resources
360-522-6031
ruth.musgrave@gov.wa.gov
Let’s make sure we leave it at that. We don’t allow sharing of personal information, regardless of who it is. This info is fine as it’s her state employee info.
Yep, public information.
And she was a Bord member of Defeners of Wildlife
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JT Austin was the Natural Resources advisor for Inslee before Musgrave. JT was responsible for most of these clowns and illegal appointment's and made a hasty disappearance. JT was likely the party to which a bunch of the illegal appointment's could be point at.
What makes the appointments “illegal”? :dunno:
Well the fact that the governor didn't follow RCW 77.04.040 which stated sportsmen groups need to be consulted, Balance between the stakeholders is necessary...
Now apparently this appointed judge thinks that this RCW can be ignored because The govenor has wide latitude in selection of appointments. Ironically I dont think the names of the commissioners that were selected were ever on a public list that sportsmen could have vetted... I wonder if that could have been one of the pieces of evidence for the case.. Or perhaps they were scared of discovery that would revel the daming communications between the Govenor, JT Austin, and Anti hunting groups.
I can only assume that you havent ready anything that WWC or others have posted on this issue, or the court filings because its all in those documents even if you disagree... But a trail wont take place so the point is moot.
It’s almost like you don’t remember discussing this when the lawsuit was proposed.