Take Action Now on Seattle Anti-Gun Ordinances

[ribka]

 Big surprise Seattle anti gun nut like Mags supports more laws to fine and put legal gun owners in prison

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quote author=magnanimous_j link=topic=178063.msg2356652#msg2356652 date=1436925327]

If you leave a firearm in your car unattended, and it is broken into and stolen, you should get fined.  Not that it makes it ok to steal the gun in the first place but accept some responsibility.

WOW   

No, he's absolutely right. If someone left a thousand dollars in cash on the front seat of their car and it got stolen, how sorry would you feel for them? Maybe a little, but you'd still want to smack their head for doing something so dumb.

The 2nd Amendment gives us the RIGHT to bear arms. But it doesn't absolve us of the responsibility of our actions. If YOUR gross negligence allows YOUR firearm to fall into the hands of criminals, be glad all you get is a fine.
[/quote]

[ribka]

If you leave a firearm in your car unattended, and it is broken into and stolen, you should get fined.  Not that it makes it ok to steal the gun in the first place but accept some responsibility.

WOW   

No, he's absolutely right. If someone left a thousand dollars in cash on the front seat of their car and it got stolen, how sorry would you feel for them? Maybe a little, but you'd still want to smack their head for doing something so dumb.

The 2nd Amendment gives us the RIGHT to bear arms. But it doesn't absolve us of the responsibility of our actions. If YOUR gross negligence allows YOUR firearm to fall into the hands of criminals, be glad all you get is a fine.

But Crunchy wasn't even talking about leaving a gun in plane view on in the vehicle.  He simply stated that if the gun was stolen then the gun owner should be fined.  Most people I hope would find that a crazy notion.

Not so crazy if you want to put lawful gun owners in jail

[magnumb]

I’m just stating the law, as it’s written.  It doesn’t apply to anything else and you can’t reason its application into any other situation.

RCW 9A.52.070
Criminal trespass in the first degree.   
(1) A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the first degree if he or she knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in a building.

     (2) Criminal trespass in the first degree is a gross misdemeanor.

You have to knowingly and unlawfully enter to be guilty.  It’s like walking into a restaurant past a sign that reads “no shirts, no shoes, no service” with no shoes on.  You have not broken a law – you have violated a rule -  when asked to leave you say OK and leave – no law is violated – you say screw you and sit down, now you are guilty of criminal trespass.

Let’s take it a bit further.  Say you are a black man and walk into a restaurant past a sign that reads “whites only”  and you are then asked to leave and refuse …  I’ll let you figure that one out.

Set whatever code of rule following that wish to but this is the law, it’s not an attitude and it’s not a philosophy.

No matter how we each view the situation of CC into an establishment with a sign posting, "No Firearms Allowed", unless you're legally blind, can't read or can't comprehend simple english, you are knowingly and intentionally violating that establishments rules and therefore....trespassing.  You also intended to do so as after reading the sign, you still decided that your desire to CC into his business was more important than the rules that he/she had established for his own purposes.....no matter what they may be.  So yes......intent is easily proven and is all that's necessary to charge whomever with trespass if the business owner wants to pursue such a course of action.  This would likely never be the choice of 99% of business owners, but his premises and it's 'rules' are not up for debate.  Those that frequent his business or he himself might be rabid, anti-gun folks....that is always a distinct possibility.  In that case, in an effort to maintain or even further his business, he might very well go 'all in' with having that CC customer charged.  Remember.....'intent' and 'knowingly' make for the worst defense possible.  Ignorance doesn't help one bit....either.  Courts and judges care little about one's philisophical beliefs, as opposed to the rights of others and how these rights/rules were violated.

Walk in, sit down, stay standing, lay on the floor, squat on the counter......if you're CCing and any part or amount of your body is within any premises that posts such a sign, you are trespassing, no matter the final choice to charge or not made by all others involved.  And if you think that simply walking into a cafe without your shirt on will get the same amount of attention from a business owner as would a customer he finds CCing, not to mention how the responding LEO will react......good luck........ . 

[magnumb]

 Big surprise Seattle anti gun nut like Mags supports more laws to fine and put legal gun owners in prison


[/quote]

No, he's absolutely right. If someone left a thousand dollars in cash on the front seat of their car and it got stolen, how sorry would you feel for them? Maybe a little, but you'd still want to smack their head for doing something so dumb.

The 2nd Amendment gives us the RIGHT to bear arms. But it doesn't absolve us of the responsibility of our actions. If YOUR gross negligence allows YOUR firearm to fall into the hands of criminals, be glad all you get is a fine.
[/quote]


Mags who ribka.....?

What you are then saying is if you, ribka, have your entire house made burglar proof, employ the most advanced security system and actual security personnel available, purchase the most bulletproof gun safe known to man, buy the largest, meanest pitbull bred in the world, position your obese wife (for illustrative purposes only) on top of said safe and someone still manages to either steal the entire gun laden safe or remove one or one hundred weapons from that safe and leaves undetected, you would feel it more than appropriate that you should be charged or fined.....?

No matter 'gross negligence' or not.  The bottomline is that your firearm(s) are not now in your possession and are, in fact, out there somewhere where they can do more harm than good.  That is the concern here........isn't it?  A firearm locked up in a vehicle, out of sight, is no more an easy target than the one at home sittin' under your tidy whities while you are elsewhere.

Not sure how leaving a gun or $1,000 cash in plain view even came up, but the very first 'fine 'em all' advocate didn't distinguish between the two.  It is obviously preferable to conceal any valuable or firearm while one's vehicle is left unattended, but the intent and actual wording from the first promoting of fines post lumped it all together.....and quite intentionally so as his subsequent posts easily reveal.

Which means.......given your super safe and secure method of home security that I illustrated earlier, he would also fully expect and desire that you be 'fined', as well, if your firearm(s) were stolen, no matter the circumstances or that they were securely locked up while you were gone.  Grocery store, the mall, your favorite gun shop, the new pot shop......your home.  What's the difference.....it's gone and as some here would have it.......you are to blame.....period!

Like I said in an earlier post, the blanket statements made about 'fining' folks was all encompassing, with no room to blame the perpetrator or anyone else.  Rosie O'Donnels fork didn't make her fat.  Place the blame where it should be placed.

[Mongo Hunter]

If you leave a firearm in your car unattended, and it is broken into and stolen, you should get fined.  Not that it makes it ok to steal the gun in the first place but accept some responsibility.

Go home Crunchy your drunk.

That being said I have the right to carry a firearm AND not have my stuff stolen by some scumbag. We have to take things as they are however not as we would like them to be. I carry EVERYWHERE its leagal to do so, which also means every now and then I'm SOL and have no choice but to lock my gun in my vehical. I don't make it easy obviously but there's only so much you can do unless your a lazy concealed carrier.

[CAMPMEAT]

How many businesses can you patronize these days that you don't have to think about if you're carrying concealed or otherwise and if it's legal to do so.......?

It's not illegal to CC in any business provided you have a CPL - unless it is a no minors area that serves alcohol - post office, etc.

I asked our postmaster the other day to show me the LAW, SPECIFIC to the NOT carrying a gun into ANY post office in the US of A and she couldn't. You show me the FEDERAL LAW please ?

[seakev]

Title 18 U.S.C. Sec. 930?

[CAMPMEAT]

Title 18 U.S.C. Sec. 930?

Nope....Read the sign at the PO next time you see the " no gun logo ".