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Author Topic: Food Plot Discussion  (Read 25311 times)

Offline Wsucoug

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2020, 10:38:58 AM »
Any of you guys doing this for black tail or just white tail

I have not, but the same principles apply. Sometimes you don't actually get to grow the most lucrative deer plot because soil moisture and planting timings won't allow it.

Don't know if you have any experience planting stuff, but if you just want to give something a try, I would plant cheap oats at about 100 lbs an acre and some red clover at 10 lbs an acre. Maybe add some winter triticale, depending what you can get locally.   Throw in some fertilizer and see what happens.  Oats should last longer on the westside because I am assuming they have a later frost.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #91 on: February 21, 2020, 01:43:48 PM »
 :yeah: Agreed, nothing easier to plant and grow than oats in the spring. Same applies for winter cereal rye in the fall.
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #92 on: February 21, 2020, 01:48:46 PM »
Clover is good too, it works good for me to keep adding more clover seed each spring, some clover dies out each winter, if you keep adding seed it gets good and thick. If you don't have irrigation summer is really hard on clover, but it might do better on the wetside.
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Offline Wsucoug

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2020, 09:30:03 AM »
Clover is good too, it works good for me to keep adding more clover seed each spring, some clover dies out each winter, if you keep adding seed it gets good and thick. If you don't have irrigation summer is really hard on clover, but it might do better on the wetside.

Clover is hard to beat as an attractant for deer; however it does tend to dry up in the middle of summer. Make sure you add some red clover to the mix, as red clover has a deeper tap root and can go down and get water at deeper levels of the soil. It also can stand summer heat better than white, and will take longer to dry up.

The one draw back to to clover is that unless you have lots of acreage, the tonnage tends to be done by the end of October on the eastside.  This can make for a downer plot come late buck.

On the west side, with milder summer temperatures, some extra fall moisture, and a later frost date; it could be a good ticket. I have just never done it over there.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2020, 11:21:59 AM »
Clover is good too, it works good for me to keep adding more clover seed each spring, some clover dies out each winter, if you keep adding seed it gets good and thick. If you don't have irrigation summer is really hard on clover, but it might do better on the wetside.

Clover is hard to beat as an attractant for deer; however it does tend to dry up in the middle of summer. Make sure you add some red clover to the mix, as red clover has a deeper tap root and can go down and get water at deeper levels of the soil. It also can stand summer heat better than white, and will take longer to dry up.

The one draw back to to clover is that unless you have lots of acreage, the tonnage tends to be done by the end of October on the eastside.  This can make for a downer plot come late buck.

On the west side, with milder summer temperatures, some extra fall moisture, and a later frost date; it could be a good ticket. I have just never done it over there.

Completely agree, in fact I think the clover loses attractiveness in Sept in my area. Through the summer I try to water some of it to keep it green and when the forest dries up it is a real attractant, but I don't see much use after Sept. That could be because the deer have other options they like better. If all I had was clover maybe that would still be good until the snow flies, I don't know.

I've had clover and alfalfa side by side and it appeared that they preferred the clover, but there are variables, maybe a different variety of alfalfa would have been more attractive, I don't know for sure.

We've tried about 8 varieties of red and white clovers, with several growing side by side, we think the Durana clover is the most attractive, it seems to get the most grazing. It costs more for the seed, but I think its worth it considering the attractiveness and longevity, it supposed to last about 5 years, but we'll still probably overseed it to make sure we keep a dense stand. It really gets grazed hard.

I've had some good expereince with winter ceral rye in the past. I had a few small plots that I planted oats in the spring last year, in August I tilled half the plots under and planted winter cereal rye , the rye was a good attraction in November. I'll see how well the rye does this spring, if its doing a good job I'll leave it grow through summer and till it under in August again and plant new rye. I might try overseeding half the rye lightly with clover this spring just to increase attractiveness, then compare which half was most effective, with or without clover overseeding.

I'll probably still plant some oats anyway this spring, it seems you can never go wrong planting oats! The deer and turkey like it early and the turkeys will be after the seeds when it heads out in the summer. By the time mid August gets here there are almost no seeds left on my oats, the turkeys love them.

I have a few acres of sanfoin we planted two years ago too. In the past I've not had good luck getting sanfoin going but I think I didn't have enough and the deer over grazed and killed it. This time it's a larger plot. Not sure about the sanfoin yet, we have alfalfa and oats at the same property and I can't see much difference in use yet. I'm intrigued by sanfoin because if it seems like a good attractant the stands are supposed to last for many years.

This food plotting is addictive, I have a blast playing around with it.
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Offline Wsucoug

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2020, 11:51:33 AM »
I have done the sainfoin thing. Done it side by side with red clover and alfalfa. Its a legit attractant but here is my take on it:

Sainfoin is very similar to alfalfa in that it takes some time to get established. Both have deep tap roots. It is equally, drought and heat tolerant (very heat tolerant). The biggest plus of sainfoin over alfalfa is that it doesn't get stemmy and un-palatable once it starts to mature. Also when everything has started to turn in mid-summer, sainfoin shines compared to the other legumes. Doesn't dry up and deer love it. Alfalfa usually wont dry up either but it gets stemmy, and the deer put it pretty low on the preference list.

Now for the negative. Sainfoin is not very browse tolerant. It's considered a single cut hay in most applications. This is because it just doesn't bounce back after being consistently grazed. This can lead to weed issues, as lack of regrowth really allows for weeds to "fill in" the plot. So if you are in an heavily grazed area or already have lots of weeds, I'd suggest red clover, or even alfalfa. Sainfoin will most likely disappoint if this is the case.

The niche for sainfoin is that it is a big draw for deer especially when everything else is dry, but this is also its downfall. If you have good moisture I would stick with clovers. If you do plant, make sure your soil is well drained and in good shape. Also make sure you get the newest variety "Delaney Sainfoin" as its supposed to be more of a double cut variety, but I have not planted that type personally.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2020, 12:00:16 PM »
Yeah I know the pros and cons, you summarized them well, I would like to see it work due to the drought tolerance and the longevity, but as you said, it's very hard to establish, I'm not even sure the bigger plot is going to make it? Another nice thing about sainfoin is that you can overseed it with more seed to thicken the stand, you can't do that with alfalfa, you have to till it and start over after a stand gets too old and starts to die out.
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Offline Wsucoug

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2020, 12:03:30 PM »
Instead of spring planted oats, you can try the following. Wait till after the last cold spell (Mid May) and plant WINTER Rye (wheat and triticale should work too but i haven't done it). IF the winter rye seed had never been exposed to the cold it will not set a seed head. Seeds/plants need to go through vernalization (google it) in order to set seed heads.

What this gets you is rye that is in the vegetative form in the fall during the hunting seasons. In this case, when fall moisture returns, your plants are already there; germinated, with an extensive roots system that can take advantage of the fall moisture.

This should allow for more green tonnage to be produced in a shorter amount of time, which is an issue when our moisture and frosts tend to come at the same time. 

Now the rye is never as attractive as freshly planted and germinated fall grains, but this method can be used for tonnage vs attractiveness.

I have personally done this before, and my rye did make it through the summer heat/drought, and I did hunt over it. This was the summer of 2016, which was a hot one.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2020, 12:08:17 PM »
Instead of spring planted oats, you can try the following. Wait till after the last cold spell (Mid May) and plant WINTER Rye. IF the winter rye seed had never been exposed to the cold it will not set a seed head. Seeds/plants need to go through vernalization (google it) in order to set seed heads.

What this gets you is rye that is in the vegetative form in the fall during the hunting seasons. In this case, when fall moisture returns, your plants are already there; germinated, with an extensive roots system that can take advantage of the fall moisture.

This should allow for more green tonnage to be produced in a shorter amount of time, which is an issue when our moisture and frosts tend to come at the same time. 

Now the rye is never as attractive as freshly planted and germinated fall grains, but this method can be used for tonnage vs attractiveness.

I have personally done this before, and my rye did make it through the summer heat/drought, and I did hunt over it. This was the summer of 2016, which was a hot one.

I didn't realize that about May planted rye! You learn something new every day!

I've read that rye loses its attractiveness when it gets over 6 to 8 inches in length, it gets bitter, I forget the exact name for that but you probably know what I'm talking about. Do you know if you can overcome that problem by mowing it?
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http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw) for spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered.

Offline Wsucoug

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2020, 12:28:02 PM »
Instead of spring planted oats, you can try the following. Wait till after the last cold spell (Mid May) and plant WINTER Rye. IF the winter rye seed had never been exposed to the cold it will not set a seed head. Seeds/plants need to go through vernalization (google it) in order to set seed heads.

What this gets you is rye that is in the vegetative form in the fall during the hunting seasons. In this case, when fall moisture returns, your plants are already there; germinated, with an extensive roots system that can take advantage of the fall moisture.

This should allow for more green tonnage to be produced in a shorter amount of time, which is an issue when our moisture and frosts tend to come at the same time. 

Now the rye is never as attractive as freshly planted and germinated fall grains, but this method can be used for tonnage vs attractiveness.

I have personally done this before, and my rye did make it through the summer heat/drought, and I did hunt over it. This was the summer of 2016, which was a hot one.

I didn't realize that about May planted rye! You learn something new every day!

I've read that rye loses its attractiveness when it gets over 6 to 8 inches in length, it gets bitter, I forget the exact name for that but you probably know what I'm talking about. Do you know if you can overcome that problem by mowing it?

I have read this many times. I have never been able to get rye to grow 6 to 8 inches tall if it was fall planted. Even if it was placed in a cage. There is just to little growing season between when our moisture comes and when it's too cold to produce that tonnage.

I planted this rye last july with irrigation.  See attachment. Picture was taken in early october. The deer are still grazing it to the ground no matter what. This was a mixture, planted over one acre, and the deer keep it mowed.

For me its always been about tonnage. Hunting bare dirt in Mid-November doesn't cut it.

 I will say there is no ag where I hunt, so the deer don't have any other options besides sticks and stems vs what I plant.  It could be they may ignore a taller rye plot if there are some irrigated fields near by, but i have never seen this personally.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #100 on: February 22, 2020, 12:37:47 PM »
I need tonnage, I do haying for some cattle but also like to have deer on it.  I plan to do spring oats then maybe instead of letting it sit I'll immediately plant winter rye this year.   
Its dry sandy soil.


I have so few deer anymore, we used to have roughly 2-3 deer per acre,  but now its 15-20 acres per deer. 
texting from my tractor seat

Offline Wsucoug

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #101 on: February 22, 2020, 12:38:00 PM »
This was my spring planted rye. This was a picture in september of 2016 after really hot and dry summer conditions. It's not an ideal attractant, but there was tonnage come November to hunt over.

Over the years this is my most bullet proof method that has given me green to hunt over come November (without irrigation).

Offline Wsucoug

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2020, 12:43:42 PM »
I need tonnage, I do haying for some cattle but also like to have deer on it.  I plan to do spring oats then maybe instead of letting it sit I'll immediately plant winter rye this year.   
Its dry sandy soil.


I have so few deer anymore, we used to have roughly 2-3 deer per acre,  but now its 15-20 acres per deer.

I agree. My plots used to get ravaged.....not anymore. I have food leftover theses days. It's sad....

I think you may have a hard time getting enough of a root system established if you plant rye after oats. I just dont think there will be enough moisture in the soil to get it going before the heat sets in.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #103 on: February 22, 2020, 12:49:53 PM »
Instead of spring planted oats, you can try the following. Wait till after the last cold spell (Mid May) and plant WINTER Rye. IF the winter rye seed had never been exposed to the cold it will not set a seed head. Seeds/plants need to go through vernalization (google it) in order to set seed heads.

What this gets you is rye that is in the vegetative form in the fall during the hunting seasons. In this case, when fall moisture returns, your plants are already there; germinated, with an extensive roots system that can take advantage of the fall moisture.

This should allow for more green tonnage to be produced in a shorter amount of time, which is an issue when our moisture and frosts tend to come at the same time. 

Now the rye is never as attractive as freshly planted and germinated fall grains, but this method can be used for tonnage vs attractiveness.

I have personally done this before, and my rye did make it through the summer heat/drought, and I did hunt over it. This was the summer of 2016, which was a hot one.

I didn't realize that about May planted rye! You learn something new every day!

I've read that rye loses its attractiveness when it gets over 6 to 8 inches in length, it gets bitter, I forget the exact name for that but you probably know what I'm talking about. Do you know if you can overcome that problem by mowing it?

I have read this many times. I have never been able to get rye to grow 6 to 8 inches tall if it was fall planted. Even if it was placed in a cage. There is just to little growing season between when our moisture comes and when it's too cold to produce that tonnage.

I planted this rye last july with irrigation.  See attachment. Picture was taken in early october. The deer are still grazing it to the ground no matter what. This was a mixture, planted over one acre, and the deer keep it mowed.

For me its always been about tonnage. Hunting bare dirt in Mid-November doesn't cut it.

 I will say there is no ag where I hunt, so the deer don't have any other options besides sticks and stems vs what I plant.  It could be they may ignore a taller rye plot if there are some irrigated fields near by, but i have never seen this personally.

My fall planted rye never got very tall, I was more worried about the May planted rye exceeding 8 inches by fall, but in your photo it doesn't look that tall. Perhaps if my rye got close to 8" I could mow it and that would prevent it getting bitter. I'm assuming the rye will grow that tall because the oats do, maybe that won't even happen?
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline Wsucoug

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Re: Food Plot Discussion
« Reply #104 on: February 22, 2020, 01:05:56 PM »
Here is a picture of some of the better soil with the rye. Picture is mid Oct.

 


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