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Author Topic: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc  (Read 5019 times)

Offline acnewman55

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Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« on: February 25, 2016, 11:51:40 AM »
I've only been hunting deer for three years.  Had my first success this past season.

I've been building up some points for special permits for a few years, always taking the points option because I didn't want to get drawn until I felt confident I knew what I was doing.

I'm working my way through all the information for the deer special permits now, and I'm curious how people use them.

Second Deer  - allows you to harvest a second deer within the set season, using the same weapon your first tag is already purchased for.  I assume most guys just use a second deer permit to take a doe and put a little more meat in the freezer?

Antlerless Deer - you still only get one deer per year, but this gives you the option to harvest a doe in the event you don't find a legal buck.

Buck Deer - this one makes no sense to me... Can somebody explain why you'd purchase this permit?

Quality Deer - hunt units in different seasons so you have opportunity with fewer hunters around and/or when the bigger bucks are on the move during the rut.

Thanks for the help!

Offline Bob33

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2016, 12:14:36 PM »
Second deer permits are always antlerless; they allow harvest of a second deer and are usually in areas with little or no public access.

A "Buck deer" permit allows you to hunt for and harvest a buck deer in areas or at times where general season hunters cannot.

"Quality deer" is essentially the same as "buck deer", but in general reflects a higher quality permit that is more difficult to draw, and thus more valuable.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline kirkl

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2016, 02:17:27 PM »
As Bob said, the "Buck deer" has alot of good whitetail rut hunts where the general public just cant go hunt it. Have to have the permit.

Offline cboom

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2016, 05:11:41 PM »
I would put in for the quality permit every year instead of buying preference points unless I knew for some reason I couldn't under any circumstance make the hunt if drawn. Those permits are kind of like the lottery where it is mostly luck. Sure you have a better chance with more points just like you do if you buy 5 lotto tickets instead of one, but very bad odds either way. I wouldn't waste years buying points and losing out on a chance to draw for a year.

Offline acnewman55

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2016, 05:17:58 PM »
I would put in for the quality permit every year instead of buying preference points unless I knew for some reason I couldn't under any circumstance make the hunt if drawn. Those permits are kind of like the lottery where it is mostly luck. Sure you have a better chance with more points just like you do if you buy 5 lotto tickets instead of one, but very bad odds either way. I wouldn't waste years buying points and losing out on a chance to draw for a year.

Yeah I understand that but for the first three years I didn't know what the hell I was doing.  I have no friends that hunt, no family etc.

It took me three years to bag my first buck hunting in one unit - I don't have the bandwidth yet to try to scout and hunt multiple units because of special permits.

Offline Killmore

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2016, 06:39:47 PM »
Remember that there is only so many ruts in your life time. So apply every year because if you draw you will find time to scout. It can take years to draw so why waste time with points. I think I have 17 points trying to draw a quality tag.

Offline lonedave

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2016, 08:00:59 PM »
I'd say if it only took you 3 years to get your first buck solo you did great and probably have more of a knack than you give yourself credit for.  Remember, you can also do a lot of pre-scouting on-line before you ever hit the permit area and there are a lot of good people on here that are very helpful.

Offline Igottanewknee

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2016, 08:29:55 PM »
All this stuff is top secret... If you don't already know, you're s.o.l.... Well, maybe.. Not sure.. I never get drawn for that stuff anyway... :chuckle:  :chuckle:

Offline acnewman55

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2016, 08:33:11 PM »
So second deer permits are for units that are mostly private land?

I'm trying to figure out if I should continue to buy applications for that one.


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Offline fishnfur

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2016, 09:10:43 PM »
I thought the second deer permits were offered for units that were considered overpopulated or at least above the recommended holding capacity for the area. 

Many of the islands on the west side have second deer permits which presumably attempt to lower the doe populations and ultimately, slow the growth of the population on the island.  There are no second deer permits (that I know of) in my area - which is why I don't put in for one.
“When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.”  - Will Rogers

Offline Bob33

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2016, 09:47:02 PM »
So second deer permits are for units that are mostly private land?

I'm trying to figure out if I should continue to buy applications for that one.


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Yes, which is why they tend to have overpopulated herds. If you don't know a landowner in the units, they're of limited value.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline fish vacuum

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2016, 03:57:26 PM »
I put in for the permits that will extend my season in my usual areas. Thankfully, those permits are not as popular as others and I get drawn every few years.
Personally, I have no interest applying for permits that I have almost zero chance of drawing, and in areas I'm not familiar with.

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Offline acnewman55

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2016, 04:05:40 PM »
I put in for the permits that will extend my season in my usual areas. Thankfully, those permits are not as popular as others and I get drawn every few years.
Personally, I have no interest applying for permits that I have almost zero chance of drawing, and in areas I'm not familiar with.

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Exactly the sort of info I'm looking for.

Thanks

Offline MonstroMuley

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2018, 08:22:31 PM »
"Back To The Future":  - Pulled from the Archives: Great Discussion Thread and Strategy Insight ... still useful even 2+ years later! Little Late... But Thanks for the Help on my Special Hunt Applications down to the wire last day submit for 2018!
"My Dinner is Still in the Woods" - Unknown

Offline steeleywhopper

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2018, 09:42:13 PM »
Spent my money in Montana this year and went points on a  :chuckle:lot of the Quality permits.. Your welcome guys.

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2018, 05:14:51 AM »
Thanks Steve I really appreciate it!!!

Offline 7mmfan

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2018, 05:40:38 AM »
Spent my money in Montana this year and went points on a  :chuckle:lot of the Quality permits.. Your welcome guys.

Always knew you were a humanitarian of sorts Steve
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Offline ljsommer

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2018, 10:48:51 AM »
So I am still a little confused about this. It sounds like only the Quality Hunt tag gets you additional access anywhere, but things like the second deer tag requires having access to private land somehow.

Aside from the quality hunt, are any of the special units useful to any of us "regular folk" that don't have private land hunting access?

Offline Roperfive88

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2018, 11:05:14 AM »
So I am still a little confused about this. It sounds like only the Quality Hunt tag gets you additional access anywhere, but things like the second deer tag requires having access to private land somehow.

Aside from the quality hunt, are any of the special units useful to any of us "regular folk" that don't have private land hunting access?

Quality tags do not gain you access other than something like the watershed where you can only go in with a special permit. They are tags that give a quality hunting experience. Fewer People or better dates or more time etc in a specific unit or units.

Second deer lets you hunt for another antlerless. The previous posts are just stating that a lot of the second tag hunts are in a GMU that has limited public access.

All tags require access some have more public access than others.

Offline ljsommer

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2018, 11:11:07 AM »
So I am still a little confused about this. It sounds like only the Quality Hunt tag gets you additional access anywhere, but things like the second deer tag requires having access to private land somehow.

Aside from the quality hunt, are any of the special units useful to any of us "regular folk" that don't have private land hunting access?

Quality tags do not gain you access other than something like the watershed where you can only go in with a special permit. They are tags that give a quality hunting experience. Fewer People or better dates or more time etc in a specific unit or units.

Second deer lets you hunt for another antlerless. The previous posts are just stating that a lot of the second tag hunts are in a GMU that has limited public access.

All tags require access some have more public access than others.

So there are no "special" tags that are "special" because they grant access to a GMU (on public land) that you wouldn't otherwise have? It's more about dates of access?

Offline Bullkllr

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2018, 11:19:39 AM »
So I am still a little confused about this. It sounds like only the Quality Hunt tag gets you additional access anywhere, but things like the second deer tag requires having access to private land somehow.

Aside from the quality hunt, are any of the special units useful to any of us "regular folk" that don't have private land hunting access?

Quality tags do not gain you access other than something like the watershed where you can only go in with a special permit. They are tags that give a quality hunting experience. Fewer People or better dates or more time etc in a specific unit or units.

Second deer lets you hunt for another antlerless. The previous posts are just stating that a lot of the second tag hunts are in a GMU that has limited public access.

All tags require access some have more public access than others.

So there are no "special" tags that are "special" because they grant access to a GMU (on public land) that you wouldn't otherwise have? It's more about dates of access?
There are some that do, actually. But they are not the standard "unit" permits. A handful come with access: Buckrun, Sillver Dollar come to mind, and a few others. They are private land-owner tags that come with access, but also with additional strings attached. It's in the regs...but I know it's a detail that is hard to decipher.

**Edit- I was thinking private land tags. There are a few that give access for free (as above) if you're drawn that might normally charge an access fee.

If you are talking about a whole GMU tag (or public land in the given GMU), 7MM answered below very thoroughly.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 05:33:16 PM by Bullkllr »
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Offline 7mmfan

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2018, 11:28:01 AM »
There are a couple of GMU's in the state that are permit only, that have no general season. The Desert unit 290 and Alkali 371 are examples of this.

In general though, the "Quality" deer permits, and many of the "Buck" deer permits, offer you the chance to hunt at a time outside the general season. Lets use the Methow Valley units for example. GMU 218 Chewuch, 224 Pearrygin, 231 Gardner, and 242 Alta all have a general deer season this year that will run from October 13-23. It is open for 3 pt or better Mule Deer, and any Whitetail buck.

However, all these units also have a Quality permit that would allow you to hunt any Mule Deer buck from November 1 - November 20. This is the height of the rut, and also the migration in most years, so your opportunity to kill an above average deer is very good. There are also only a handful of permit holders in each unit, so competition is nil, hence the "Quality" rating.

Also, each of these units offers a "Buck" deer tag for any whitetail buck during the same timeframe. This is not considered a "Quality" tag because you can hunt whitetail during the rut in many places in the state, and the chances of success are quite a bit lower.

You can also apply for an antlerless tag in all these units. You seem to understand the roll of that tag. It's a general season tag, just gives you the opportunity to kill a doe, or a legal buck.

To further confuse you, you can apply for a 2nd deer tag in most of these units as well. The tag is specific to antlerless whitetail only. Whitetail by nature live close to the river bottoms, which are generally private property. So it's not so much that they give 2nd tags away in an area that is mostly private, because its private, but because that happens to be where most of the targeted species are. There are usually parcels of state land that you can hunt in these areas as well, they are just limited.

I don't know if that's helpful or not.
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Offline acnewman55

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Re: Special Permits - How do you use yours? Strategy / Seasons / Etc
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2018, 05:42:05 PM »
There are a couple of GMU's in the state that are permit only, that have no general season. The Desert unit 290 and Alkali 371 are examples of this.

In general though, the "Quality" deer permits, and many of the "Buck" deer permits, offer you the chance to hunt at a time outside the general season. Lets use the Methow Valley units for example. GMU 218 Chewuch, 224 Pearrygin, 231 Gardner, and 242 Alta all have a general deer season this year that will run from October 13-23. It is open for 3 pt or better Mule Deer, and any Whitetail buck.

However, all these units also have a Quality permit that would allow you to hunt any Mule Deer buck from November 1 - November 20. This is the height of the rut, and also the migration in most years, so your opportunity to kill an above average deer is very good. There are also only a handful of permit holders in each unit, so competition is nil, hence the "Quality" rating.

Also, each of these units offers a "Buck" deer tag for any whitetail buck during the same timeframe. This is not considered a "Quality" tag because you can hunt whitetail during the rut in many places in the state, and the chances of success are quite a bit lower.

You can also apply for an antlerless tag in all these units. You seem to understand the roll of that tag. It's a general season tag, just gives you the opportunity to kill a doe, or a legal buck.

To further confuse you, you can apply for a 2nd deer tag in most of these units as well. The tag is specific to antlerless whitetail only. Whitetail by nature live close to the river bottoms, which are generally private property. So it's not so much that they give 2nd tags away in an area that is mostly private, because its private, but because that happens to be where most of the targeted species are. There are usually parcels of state land that you can hunt in these areas as well, they are just limited.

I don't know if that's helpful or not.

Very helpful, thank you!

Sometimes I feel like it's BS that these regs are so complex that the average joe can't figure them out.  Then I realize that all the people here being helpful are average joes that have been grinding it out for years, have paid their dues and are simply paying it forward helping out us newbies.

So thanks to all that have weighed in here to help out!  I'm a first generation hunter that grew up in the suburbs with no hunting influences and has since begun hunting self-taught, and converted my two best friends along the way.  All three of us has now killed a buck on public land (in three years of trying).  This is a hard game to learn on one's own but helpful folks on this site have made all the difference.  :tup:

 

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