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Author Topic: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM  (Read 9932 times)

Offline BOWHUNTER45

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2021, 07:47:17 PM »
That’s awesome my fellow Pennsylvanian spends his fortunes in
 Washington and holds a record !! PA doesn’t need his money since they know how to manage game properly !! .  Hope my 1st post in along time doesn’t tick anyone off .
Lol !! One of these days I will win the elk raffle in PA and hold your state record bull elk


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Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2021, 08:22:58 PM »
That’s awesome my fellow Pennsylvanian spends his fortunes in
 Washington and holds a record !! PA doesn’t need his money since they know how to manage game properly !! 😂😂😂.  Hope my 1st post in along time doesn’t tick anyone off 😮✅😂.

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Offline ramslam

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2021, 03:40:48 PM »
Sorry a little late to this party but I noticed a few things I wanted to clarify for what it's worth and add my opinion on a couple others.

As noted in the BC article, Gary took a ram in 2015 & 2016 as well.  I was on his 2015 hunt but not 2016.  I know he was after a giant from the first year so went in again in 2016--he never did get that particular ram.  His three WA rams have come from three different herds/GMU's. 

The WA Rocky raffle has always been physically drawn by someone from WDFW and under their close supervision, guidance, audit and per WA state gambling laws.  To suggest that our affiliation with WA WSF is related to our hunters winning the raffle is simply not true.  We've had hunters win state WDFW managed raffles as well.   ;)

There is no doubt the trend over the last ten years in all of the west raffles is for some big raffle players.  Should WDFW limit the purchases?  Valid point brought up by many.  Since Dave Ware, et al sacrificed drawing odds 10 years ago with all the expanded categories in the name of increased revenue, I can't see it happening.  I disagree that it will push raffle players to the auctions.  Maybe a few, but the WA state Cali tag sold for $210k in 2020....that's above and beyond a lot of people that get into the raffle game.  Not saying I am right, just my opinion.  All the WA raffles generate a pile of cash and I cannot see WDFW taking the risk by limiting the number purchased.  I tried like hell a few years ago to get them to cut out the multi-species raffles to no avail. I do not like that the money can be spent on anything.  I also did a PDR and had WDFW put all raffle/auction expenditures on their website--although it looks like it's now been taken down.  Better accountability and transparency with the revenue for sure!

I'm including a screenshot of the RCW about spending of raffle revenue.  Personally, I hate that two bighorn permits are included in the multi species ones.  Also, in 2004 when the Rocky raffle was being considered by the state I was notified that the commission at the time wanted to make it an auction permit.  Luckily the meeting a couple days later was during my spring break so I drove up and testified that I didn't think it was right that the only rocky tag was sold.  Good business move?  Nope, but it was right.  WA WSF stepped in and guaranteed a minimum revenue if they did the raffle so it was switched back and implemented in 2005.  Yes, people that buy lots and lots of tickets are more likely to win.  That said, I spent $20 on a raffle ticket to get my NM desert ram and Bryan won two state raffles with about $100 total invested.  About half the people that spend the most do not win it.

Outfitting/guiding is not required for any sheep tag in WA.  I know a few top notch sheep nuts on this forum and many others that love sheep that are not on here that tag along on a few hunts each year.  That's awesome!
 Bryan and I took a different path when we started our own venture a few years ago.  We are both very passionate about wild sheep hunting and conservation.  Always will be!  If you ever want to chat about wild sheep hit one of us up.  From Cleman Mtn to Kyrgyztan or from Asotin to Azerbaijan, we spend a lot of time hunting and talking wild sheep!  We don't claim to be the best or know every ram in the state...we just spend a lot of time out there and enjoy doing what we do. 

Finally, I know a few said congrats to the hunter etc but really the congrats goes to WDFW, the area Bio Paul and the Hells Canyon Initiative team.  Washington raised the biggest rocky mtn bighorn ram killed anywhere in 2020!  It's been a long road from the 1995-96 die-off but the future is bright (if they can stay clean)!!!

Thanks

Glen

Offline Dan-o

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2021, 03:48:05 PM »
Great update and perspective.     :tup: :tup:
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Online Karl Blanchard

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2021, 04:15:23 PM »
Excellent post Ramslam!

Fact is that if you force the whales out, we aren't gonna make up the lost ticket sales with ones and two's. People get all up in arms because a big money player wins but the cold hard fact is all tickets have a chance and whether its 500 guys with a total of 10,000  tickets or 10,000 guys with a total of 10,000 tickets, there's still 10,000 in the tumbler and your odds are the exact same.
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Offline idaho guy

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2021, 06:41:48 PM »
thanks ramslam-good information and thanks for clarifying a few points

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2021, 07:37:15 PM »
Ok, I'll be "that guy" again   :chuckle: and then I'm out.

I've been around a bit of contract language in my life. "Revenue from the sale of single species raffle permits shall be used for the management of that species"
Define management?

Restoring wolves to the countryside could equate to "putting nature back in balance" or "sheep have long been sharing the landscape with wolves, nature's way of controlling the sheep population/diseases/etc."
There are unlimited numbers of ways to get around "contract" / RCW language.  Again are we sure that the money is being spent how we "think"?

Lastly, lots of folks on here love to help other hunters out, even forgoing the chance to tag out themselves so they can better the odds for their protege. Good for you, I have did the same. Seems ironic that we support that, while at the same time we are OK with the wealthy folks buying their way into multiple sheep kills? YES, I know thats how the world turns.......

I just prefer to let others that enjoy the same sport of hunting to hopefully have the same experiences that I have had. Greed is a negative thing for me.  :twocents:


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