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Author Topic: Upgraded Smoke Pole Thoughts - Updated 6-15-20  (Read 1756 times)

Offline saread

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Upgraded Smoke Pole Thoughts - Updated 6-15-20
« on: May 13, 2020, 03:04:14 PM »
I upgraded my shootin' iron this week from a Bighorn to an Ultra-Lite and I thought I might share some thoughts on these.  First off, like a lot of us, I'm going to shout out to Sabotloader for his diligence and willingness to share his knowledge to our benefit.  His help makes the learning curve a lot less steep.

I bought the Bighorn from Bob's in Longview right after Knight went out of business and before the new regime.  While I've always thought of it as an adequate hunting rifle, it's never impressed me as being particularly precise and maybe just a tad underdeveloped.  Green Mountain seems to get a lot of praise for their barrels, but I think the one on this particular Bighorn got away from them. I have never slugged the bore, but it seems a bit oversized as I've always felt that no matter the bullet/sabot combination I've used, it has always been far too easy to seat.  It just seems like the bore is a bit over sized.  That and the fact that the stock/barrel is not bedded in any way and the barrel is not free floated all led to what I feel is disappointing precision.  Certainly minute of paper plate at 100 yards, or even 200 yards, but not much in the way of reproduction from shot to shot. The fore stock is much too short to put a sling swivel in such a place where the rifle will not balance on your shoulder. On the bright side, it has a good trigger right out of the box, the plunger system is bulletproof, and it has a decent recoil pad.  Over time I managed to help the precision by bedding the barrel to the stock and free floating the barrel (as much as you can with the ram rod being pushed into the barrel by the retaining spring).  I've always hated the stock Firesights, and the front sight is in need of a hood.  There's a reason why Knight sells them separately.  At some point you will need a new one.  A Williams FP-LEGEND with a twilight aperture is really the way to go.  I think a  bead front would probably be a better option as well as the stock fiber optic is pretty much useless in low light.  Especially if it has been banged around a little bit.  All in all, it has been a good gun.  Utterly reliable with musket caps and 777, and accurate enough to hunt with.  Even reasonably comfortable with a Claw sling when trudging through the landscape.

The Bighorn has served it's purpose and it was time for an upgrade.  I really felt there were only 3 choices: Mountaineer, Ultra-Lite, or Remington UML. When it came down to it, and in no small part to due to Sabotloader's opinion, I think the best rifle for my purposes is the Ultra-Lite with a bare 209 primer system.  Sorry to you CVA, Traditions and Thompson folks, I'm a Knight guy.  With the Ultra-Lite I like the low weight, I like the shorter barrel, I like the primer ignition, I like the closed bolt.  After some negotiation, I purchased the rifle through Adventure Sports in Lynnwood. I didn't pay Midway's price, but I sure as heck didn't pay MSRP and I got to support a local business.  Delivery was 2 weeks. It is certainly a handsome piece, even in nitride.  It still needs a hooded front sight and probably a bead.  I put on a FP-Legend and, as described elsewhere, had to relieve the stock to make it work.  However, the relief needed is very minimal took about 15 minutes to do.  I looked at the WGRS sight and the NECG version. I didn't care for the way they adjust, and don't necessarily trust either to stay locked in place once zeroed.  I am familiar with the FP and it was not a chore to make it work.  My only question is if there's enough adjustment in the sight to account for the tapered barrel and stock front sight.  I think there is, I'll know once a range opens up.  I think it's a little too fiddly trying to get a primer in the bolt, but a capper should help that. The head space for a CCI 209M primer wasn't even close.  0.015 shims for the stock breech plug and .020 for the Lehigh.  The Knight breech plug is garbage.  The Lehigh is half the price and you can buy vent liners separately.  Knight is the exact same design except the vent liner material is inferior and it is bonded in and not replaceable.  It is also a bit disappointing that when shucking up $1k+ for a rifle that the bolt operates like a Soviet tractor.  It works, but it isn't refined in any way.  If you want to sell a simple rifle for that kind of money, it would sure help the marketing side if the action was a little closer to butter and a lot farther away from gravel. The Timney trigger is nice, no question there.  The stock is nice as well and the fore end is longer than the Bighorn.  With the better stock and tapered barrel, the overall balance of the rifle is much improved over the barrel heavy Bighorn.  I'm still running with a Claw sling, those are the real deal. The barrel is free floated for sure (ram rod issue not withstanding) and the barrel seems to fit the aluminum bedding block OK. It may benefit from a minor glass bedding treatment down the road to improve the fit. We shall see. The recoil lug isn't much bigger than the Bighorn's, but that was never an issue.  The improved carbon fiber cored ram rod is not particularly impressive.  Rather than sending a cleaning jag, it has a screw out extension that can best be described as cheesy.  It seems to work so far.  But time will tell. The nitride finish tends to grow on you.  It is supposed to be durable.  If anyone can test that, it's me.

 I have yet to shoot it.  My range is closed for now.  I'm interested in recoil and precision.  I'm planning on using the Lehigh .452x240 gr Controlled Fracturing bullet in either a Harvester Crush Rib or MMP HPH 24 sabot for mule deer.  The backup plan is a 300 gr. Harvester PT Gold Scorpion. Starting load will be 100 gr. of Blackhorn 209 and we'll go from there.  Can't say as I enjoyed paying $90 for 20 oz. of powder, but if it gives better precision and a better follow up shot, it's probably worth it.  I am a big fan of not being corrosive. I'm also not much of a glutton for punishment and am hoping that I can get what I need at around 100 gr. of powder.  The 24 inch barrel is not particularly conducive to velocity and I may have to push the load up a bit to be happy.  The 240 gr. bullet should help with recoil.   

That's the good, the bad, and the ugly.  I may update once I get to the range and see what it's got.  The proof will be in the shooting.  I'm very optimistic.

UPDATE: My range finally opened and I got a chance to shoot this thing.  I started at 50 yards with a 300 gr Harvester PT Gold in a crush rib sabot with 90 grs of Blackhorn 209 to get on paper. First shot went right over the target.  Aimed the next shot at the bottom of the paper and found it.  I had to take the FP-Legend site down to almost max to get about 2 inches low with a center hold.  Moved over to the 100 yard range and put in the Lehigh 452x24 CF bullet with a MMP HPH 24 sabot on 100 grs of 209.  First shot is about 2-1/2 in. low at 7:00.  Second shot is within an inch of the first, third goes through the same hole as the second.  I'm liking this combination, but I'm now 7 or 8 shots into this exercise and I'm starting to think about how much abuse I'm willing to take today.  This thing carries a wallop.  209 has a bit sharper impulse than 777 and with the lighter rifle you can definitely feel it.  The recoil pad is good, but a little more bearing area would be nice.  One of the things I notice at this time is that the bolt handle, where it meets the bolt, is impacting the sight when operating the bolt because it is set so low.  A little relief on the sight with a file will fix this, but I needed to watch it.  I cranked in a bunch of up and right to the sight and fired another couple of rounds.  Wow, this thing will shoot.  Both are within an inch about 2-1/2 inches high and an inch right.  I dialed the windage back a bit, and left the elevation alone.  Shot another half dozen or so rounds and when I didn't mess up the sight alignment, the group was impressive.  What I don't like is the front site.  I find the fiber optic a bit hard to focus on and I believe I will change it out to a bead. I then decided to try some crush rib sabots.  Whoa, that was not good.  The next 3 shots were about 4" left and strung about 6 inches.  Back to the MMP sabots and we were again piling shots on top of one another.  Interestingly, the leaves on the crush rib sabots folded back, but the leaves on the MMP's were broken off. The bases of both were well obturated and the rifling engagement was clear and robust. At this point I'm not seeing a need to change from 100 gr. of 209. This rifle is a shooter. After about 25 or 26 shots, I'd had enough.  That is more than enough abuse to take for a  test drive.

The trigger has a tiny bit of creep and if you are not careful, you can feel it and flinch.  I don't flinch, but I could definitely tell when the trigger was going to release and if you're predisposed to a flinch, it will tell you when to do it.  Otherwise, it is a good trigger, as you would expect from Timney.  The bolt still works like a Soviet tractor and seems shoddy for the price of the rifle.  A little refinement here would go a long way for the experience.  I added a Spin Jag and a giRamrod and that's a good piece of kit over the stock unit.  This bullet/sabot combination is tight in the bore and a good ramrod and starter are needed. Remember to pick up a ramrod extension for a little bit of length for cleaning.  Clean up was a piece of cake.  The breach plug popped right out (unlike some experiences shooting 777) and the Montana Extreme 209 solvent worked very well.  It was nice that with a properly head spaced bolt, there was zero blowback and virtually nothing to clean past the breach plug. I ran about 19 shots without a patch.  Precision did not drop off and the work to push in a new round was basically the same all the way through.  I like 209 for that.

At this point, I'm pretty pleased.  Well, my shoulder isn't really happy, but he rest of me is OK.  I like the light weight, the improved balance, the handling, and for sure the precision. Is this gun worth $700 more than a Bighorn?  Probably not.  Even with it's short comings, the Bighorn sold on sale is one heck of a deal. The Ultra-Lite isn't perfect out of the box either. A little work makes it a better rifle.  When you get it where it needs to be, it is a very, very, nice hunting gun. I'm very much looking forward to carrying it this fall.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 03:11:32 PM by saread »

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Upgraded Smoke Pole Thoughts
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2020, 03:55:05 PM »
@WSU  #WSU
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline WSU

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Re: Upgraded Smoke Pole Thoughts
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2020, 04:09:33 PM »
I was just texting trophyhunt that I may buy a bighorn.  They are on sale now and I've heard from a few people that have them that they like them.  The website guarantees MOA accuracy to 200 yards, which is obviously better than I'll get with open sights.

Are the newer versions better?

Offline saread

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Re: Upgraded Smoke Pole Thoughts
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2020, 08:08:06 PM »
For $269 I would be all over a new Bighorn.  Don't think, just do it.  For that money, it is way good enough.  I think mine was a bit of an anomaly and I think generally, the new guns are fine.  I've always had an issue with accuracy claims.  Every one of us knows that MOA precision is not a tall bar, and we all know that to attain any level of precision with any firearm, the load is critical.  It is just too easy to blow off the precision guarantee by saying that you just haven't used an optimum load. Well, if it's MOA, what's the load that gets me there?  And, is it a load suitable for hunting big game?  How about providing a test target?  Don't tell me it can, show me it can.

Anyway, the Bighorn at that price is a good deal and you have a few bucks left over for a new FP rear sight and some powder, bullets, and accessories.  Load it up and have some fun.

Offline saread

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Re: Upgraded Smoke Pole Thoughts - Updated 6-15-20
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2020, 03:13:07 PM »
BTT for update.

 


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