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Author Topic: More blood and guts  (Read 52811 times)

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #165 on: January 31, 2018, 08:10:25 PM »
Common sense??? We're gonna use common sense to be the rule of law now? Ok, well common sense tells me that the US is wasting BILLIONS on ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS so let's round them all up and deport them, NOW.

Common sense tells me, oh man I can go on and on...

To be fair, we are wasting even more billions on our own citizens.....

Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #166 on: January 31, 2018, 08:17:59 PM »
Ok, true equality, fine, let's do away with the constitution and the treaties altogether and submit to a similar state like a communist state. All citizens treated equal.
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #167 on: February 01, 2018, 06:09:39 AM »
Can anyone show me where to look up the region 3 elk damage kill permits from last year? Is that scientific management? Killing pregnant cows because they cross an imaginary line onto historic winter range,  not some detrimental feeding station...... Talk about more blood and guts!
So your comparing 25 permits for master hunters to what goes on in the natches area?  That's quite a stretch TbaR. 
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #168 on: February 01, 2018, 06:10:51 AM »
So how come no one has said this...
Legally as it maybe out of glen wood and trout lake the yaks are getting 75$ for a deer and 150+$ for elk.. non tribesman are paying them for this. Growing up around some of the Indians if they make money at it they will do it. So is that legal? I asked a game warden about it.. he said he couldn’t do anything about it... so how are his hands tied?

This is an interesting point...the other day I spoke with an enrolled member down here on the yakama res who told me he asked someone on the council whether he could sell the meat from elk he shoots and was told if he is selling it to feed his family it is just another way he is providing a living....which I guess in principle I do agree with but the problem I have with it is the extremely finite nature of the resource he is utilizing. Wild game can be so easily overharvested, and cannot be propagated to match harvest in the same ways domesticated livestock can...

I asked the fellow how hard it would be for him to harvest say, 10 elk in a year,  and he kind of just chuckled and said 10? That's easy.

In all fairness I do believe this man is providing meat for several families not just his own, however, he had a medium sized cow elk in his truck bed and told me he shot a 6x7 bull as well as another bull at the same time way up oak creek somewhere the week before. And had already bagged multiple cows before these... But he only had until the 1st to take cows so he was going back up..........

I say all of this not to incite jealousy or hatred, but simply to state the obvious: if there are even only one or two dozen members of every tribe "playing by the rules" which this man is, doing this and harvesting upwards of a dozen elk every year or more, how can we hope to see and enjoy a thriving population of these animals for generations to come?
I can bet that no councilmen ever said that about selling game, it's  against our law to do so
Ok, so lets talk about selling the game being against your law.  let me ask you an honest question then,  Do you guys enforce that law?  I'll answer that for you, hell no!  I'm sure you've heard of the Jerky guy, AW. How much does he make a year on selling jerky?  I just saw a facebook photo with him standing in front of a full smoker full of elk meat.  And him saying he was all sold out and needs to resupply.  What does a guy do with 25 to over 100 bull elk a year, he sells it.  How about the tribal members that killed elk and deer weekly and drove to Tacoma to sell it to a big time criminal?  Please don't tell me the tribe or the elders didn't know about that one!!!!!!!  Be honest here, these are perfectly honest questions, no bashing or racist remarks were said.
Still waiting for an answer Time?
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Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #169 on: February 01, 2018, 06:54:58 AM »
Yes and no to the questions. Do they know about every little thing going on? No. Is 1 member on their radar for selling animals in Tacoma? No. Why would they know about it? Wdfw never came down and said here, this member is selling over in puget sound.

I can honestly say I brought the book and case up to 1 council member and they didn't know what i was talking about a couple years ago.

Do they know a tribal member is selling jerky? Probably. Do they plan to stop it? Probably not. Last I heard he actually had a business license for his jerky.

Again, as I said before, you have to affect change at a cultural level with science.

Most don't know this is a renewable resource that is a slow renewal resource. They don't believe it can be impacted enough to be detrimental. 

But, hey what do I know, I don't have a piece of paper on my wall
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Offline 92xj

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #170 on: February 01, 2018, 07:01:33 AM »

Most don't know this is a renewable resource that is a slow renewal resource. They don't believe it can be impacted enough to be detrimental. 

But, hey what do I know, I don't have a piece of paper on my wall

Indians don't know about bison?
Weird.
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Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #171 on: February 01, 2018, 07:09:10 AM »
Honestly, I've given you honestly. I know for a fact several council members didn't know about the person going back and forth to puget sound. Please, someone explain to me why they would know about it? Hell, I didn't know so why should they know?

There was a conviction, a book, newspaper articles and I didn't know until HW brought it up. But somehow our leaders are supposed to know?

There wasn't an article here in our area showing names of crimes and people involved? I don't recall hearing wdfw forwarding info to our l.e. dept for possible charges.

The person was never arrested so how can it be expected that we know what occurred a couple hundred miles away?

We are the largest tribe in wa. State and I don't know even a quarter of the people, but somehow I'm expected to know who's doing what and how?.
If you can read thank a teacher, If you can read in English thank a Marine! 
Not as Lean, Just as Mean, Still a Marine!
He who shed blood with me shall forever be my brother!

"Around this camp, there's only one Chief; the rest are Indians!"

"Give me 15 more minutes, I was dreaming of Beavers!"

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #172 on: February 01, 2018, 07:10:37 AM »
Yes and no to the questions. Do they know about every little thing going on? No. Is 1 member on their radar for selling animals in Tacoma? No. Why would they know about it? Wdfw never came down and said here, this member is selling over in puget sound.

I can honestly say I brought the book and case up to 1 council member and they didn't know what i was talking about a couple years ago.

Do they know a tribal member is selling jerky? Probably. Do they plan to stop it? Probably not. Last I heard he actually had a business license for his jerky.

Again, as I said before, you have to affect change at a cultural level with science.

Most don't know this is a renewable resource that is a slow renewal resource. They don't believe it can be impacted enough to be detrimental. 

But, hey what do I know, I don't have a piece of paper on my wall
I appreciate you responding Plat, I always want to hear your opinion.  I still a bit confused about the selling of elk jerky even with a business license.  If they were farmed elk that would make sense, but these are wild state owned elk that he is profiting from.  I'm not sure that is covered in the treaty?  I can't  believe it was one member only killing and selling deer and elk to the Tacoma guy, but I could be wrong. Again, I appreciate your comments.
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Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #173 on: February 01, 2018, 07:11:35 AM »

Most don't know this is a renewable resource that is a slow renewal resource. They don't believe it can be impacted enough to be detrimental. 

But, hey what do I know, I don't have a piece of paper on my wall

Indians don't know about bison?
Weird.

Most do. You're not comprehending what I'm saying. If wdfw is saying the elk herds are flourishing in the colockum and are over capacity are they correct?
If you can read thank a teacher, If you can read in English thank a Marine! 
Not as Lean, Just as Mean, Still a Marine!
He who shed blood with me shall forever be my brother!

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"Give me 15 more minutes, I was dreaming of Beavers!"

Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #174 on: February 01, 2018, 07:13:44 AM »
The Yakima elk herds are over capacity per wdfw. Now, a lawmaker reads and hears that they're not going to be concerned.

So tell me, what's it going to take to change that?
If you can read thank a teacher, If you can read in English thank a Marine! 
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He who shed blood with me shall forever be my brother!

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"Give me 15 more minutes, I was dreaming of Beavers!"

Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #175 on: February 01, 2018, 07:14:32 AM »
How do you show that a herd is not healthy just because numbers say different?
If you can read thank a teacher, If you can read in English thank a Marine! 
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He who shed blood with me shall forever be my brother!

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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #176 on: February 01, 2018, 07:23:51 AM »
Can anyone show me where to look up the region 3 elk damage kill permits from last year? Is that scientific management? Killing pregnant cows because they cross an imaginary line onto historic winter range,  not some detrimental feeding station...... Talk about more blood and guts!
So your comparing 25 permits for master hunters to what goes on in the natches area?  That's quite a stretch TbaR.
Not at all, those are master hunter draw tags.  I was referring very specifically to kill permits. (Quite possibly the just behind permit cuts and archery season alteration)
Ok, I'm not familiar with kill permits. 
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #177 on: February 01, 2018, 07:27:51 AM »
How do you show that a herd is not healthy just because numbers say different?
I don't have a piece of paper on the wall either so my thoughts are just what they are, but this was one of the worst years for seeing elk during early and late archery seasons that we have seen in many years.  And the deer are just gone.  My dad and I, and yes he's a road hunter, only saw one elk all early season.  The late season was better the first couple days but after that it was a ghost town.  Something is going on, the numbers seem way down to our group.  I would find it very hard to believe the elk are over populated in the nile, bumping and natches.  but again, no paper on my wall either.
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Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #178 on: February 01, 2018, 07:42:55 AM »
We can agree that wdfw saying the Yakima elk herd is over capacity, but how do you prove it? How do you say and show the herd is unhealthy? Wdfw is praising their seasons, bag limits and restrictions they out in place and say they've managed the herds to oversustainable numbers, but people here are saying different?

What do you, as a group, do to prove them wrong? How do you change the opinion of the people put in charge of monitoring and regulating the herds? How do you dispel them? Because to everybody above them that's in charge, the policy makers, everything is on the up & up.

They'll look at the reports and numbers and say how can anyone user group be causing such a detrimental impact as you've said but it doesn't show here in these reports? Wdfw would counter and say, "theyre animals and always moving, theyre changing habits based on pressure."

They'd also say, "the oportunity to harvest is there and it's not a guarantee to fill your permit just because you have 1."
If you can read thank a teacher, If you can read in English thank a Marine! 
Not as Lean, Just as Mean, Still a Marine!
He who shed blood with me shall forever be my brother!

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"Give me 15 more minutes, I was dreaming of Beavers!"

Offline bobcat

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Re: More blood and guts
« Reply #179 on: February 01, 2018, 07:47:39 AM »
I don't believe they're saying there's too many elk. Antlerless permits were drastically cut last year, and this year the proposal shows no antlerless early archery season in any of the 300 units except 334 and 335. That's a pretty major change to a season that people have become accustomed to hunting over many years.

 


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