collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property  (Read 3088 times)

Offline wolfbait

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 9112
Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« on: January 30, 2018, 01:44:18 PM »

Offline BULLBLASTER

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 8057
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2018, 01:57:13 PM »
No much new there. I’ve seen them decommission and destroy 20+ year old road beds that are overgrown with trees having 8-12 inch trunks. No way even a atv could have driven on them.

Offline Woodchuck

  • GO TEAM!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 12049
  • Location: Walla Walla
  • HuntWA Woodblock
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2018, 02:01:15 PM »
 :yeah: Been happening in the blues for years.
Antlered rabbit tastes like chicken


Inuendo, wasn't he an Italian proctoligist?

Offline gaddy

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 2920
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2018, 02:36:55 PM »
In most cases it is a total waste of time and money in my opinion. I have seen a couple that were tore up so bad you couldn't walk on them. I could see maybe a  short stretch to keep vehicles off but why go on for miles ? How much would it cost for labor, fuel, equipment and support for a day, times how many days or weeks ?

Offline mfswallace

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Posts: 2653
  • Location: where I be
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2018, 03:46:12 PM »
Any update since this was 9months ago ??

Offline elkinrutdrivemenuts

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 2238
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2018, 04:35:41 PM »
https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=f5f455c2c4d14496adc46ba2a1902dd1

Great way to see what roads are open to what kind of vehicles.  The East Fork of Eagle creek is only open 1.8 miles.  The old road goes much farther back up the creek.  Its probably been closed for awhile but its common practice over here in Idaho to ride around signs or gates if you can. 

Offline Cylvertip

  • Conservative Heathen
  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 1617
  • Location: Granite Falls by way of Rainier/ Tenino
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2018, 04:37:53 PM »
With the way they decommission them here on the Wetside, I am sure this had nothing specifically to do with the gold prospectors association.  The supposed illegal creek crossing and go around probably was a catalyst, but that is not necessarily by the prospectors.  :twocents:   

I have had to use a gps to be able to follow/ stay on a reclaimed rd in the Oly Nat Forest. :bash:
May that for which I prepare never come to pass.
Don't Tread On Me!

Offline Knocker of rocks

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 8561
  • Location: the Holocene, man
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2018, 05:16:54 PM »
With the way they decommission them here on the Wetside, I am sure this had nothing specifically to do with the gold prospectors association.  The supposed illegal creek crossing and go around probably was a catalyst, but that is not necessarily by the prospectors.  :twocents:   

I’ve thought the decommission effort over here was way too intensive.  Then I heard a discussion on KIRO 710 NW Outdoors,  and they were strident that leaving culverts is very detrimental to salmon.  Neither of those hosts could be referred to as “greenies”,  but tearing up the roads as they do sure makes walking difficult.

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 24823
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Make it Rain!
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2018, 05:31:01 PM »
Decommissioning roads should consist of pulling culverts and adding water bars but leaving the bed fairly usable. Making the first couple hundred yards impassable to anything but foot traffic. Who knows when your going to need them for fire fighting...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline jmscon

  • Forum Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 1197
  • Location: Seattle
  • RMEF BHA TRCP
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2018, 05:38:05 PM »
Decommissioning roads should consist of pulling culverts and adding water bars but leaving the bed fairly usable. Making the first couple hundred yards impassable to anything but foot traffic. Who knows when your going to need them for fire fighting...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
:yeah:
My interpretation of the rules are open to interpretation.
Once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.

Offline Skyvalhunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 15706
  • Location: Sky valley/Methow
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2018, 05:47:41 PM »
We have several of these NEPA project roads in my area. The USFS went in and pulled the culverts putting in water bars but not totally destroying the roads. Their justification for doing this was they said the culvert were plugged running down the roads an causing sedimentation to go into the streams and rivers. It supposedly also reduced their road maintenance cost which I disagreed with. During the comment period on some of the road I was interested in I put out word on hiking, hunting, etc forums to get people to write in and ask that atleast a trail was provided on the roads which they agreed with. They just want to do away with as many roads as possible and its not like they do much maintenance. The general public does a lot by cutting out logs and cleaning culverts. :twocents:
The only man who never makes a mistake, is the man who never does anything!!
The further one goes into the wilderness, the greater the attraction of its lonely freedom.

Offline Alan K

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 2953
  • Location: Lewis County, WA
  • University of Idaho Alumni
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2018, 06:29:11 PM »
They could sell a single timber sale and pay for the entire forests maintenance for the year, nevermind the benefit it does for local jobs. They have been so delinquent on their routine maintenance that they can now say it'll cost too much to fix. I really do believe that a large contingent of folks inside the USFS, nevermind the environmental groups that hang over their shoulder, want to turn our public lands into wilderness areas.

Offline Humptulips

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 8812
  • Location: Humptulips
    • Washington State Trappers Association
  • Groups: WSTA, NTA, FTA, OTA, WWC, WFW, NRA
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2018, 09:23:45 PM »
They could sell a single timber sale and pay for the entire forests maintenance for the year, nevermind the benefit it does for local jobs. They have been so delinquent on their routine maintenance that they can now say it'll cost too much to fix. I really do believe that a large contingent of folks inside the USFS, nevermind the environmental groups that hang over their shoulder, want to turn our public lands into wilderness areas.

Well, not really. My friend who I sometimes work for, bid on a culvert job as in replacement of one culvert. 18" culvert on a fairly steep hillside. Year round creek but just a trickle. Justification for replacement was the culvert had a downspout and the FS decided because it was year around water it needed to be at original grade of creek. I think they upgraded to a 24" culvert. A fish would have needed climbing gear to get up this creek.
Cost $700,000
Another creek, a good sized one had a big culvert upgraded from culvert to bridge for fish migration. Trouble is there are three impassable falls below the new bridge, one visible from the road.
Cost $1,200,000
I could go on.
The reason they do this is because these fish related projects don't come out of their budget. They are separate appropriations. Maintenance comes out of their budget. Plus they can move FS personnel working on these off budget so they can keep people working they don't actually have money for in their budget.
And the timber sales, the way they run them they are lucky to break even.
I helped rebuild some roads on one timber sale. The roads were perfectly usable. In fact the logger wanted to start work before we finished but the FS would not approve the use of the roads until all new culverts were installed. Bear in mind there was no water in any of the culverts. We finally got done and the logger finished and then a month later paid a person to come in and decommission them. You could drive a dump with a pup the length of the roads before we started work. Now you can barely walk them.
All their requirements drive up the cost to the point there is no profit to be made by the FS. One guy I know bought several big thinning sales. He told me average cost was $2 per thousand. he ended up letting most of them go back because it was breaking him.
Most sales go for a lot more then that but still the FS doesn't see much of it beyond paying their associated costs. 
Bruce Vandervort

Offline fastdam

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 876
  • Location: washington
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2018, 09:37:41 PM »
They could sell a single timber sale and pay for the entire forests maintenance for the year, nevermind the benefit it does for local jobs. They have been so delinquent on their routine maintenance that they can now say it'll cost too much to fix. I really do believe that a large contingent of folks inside the USFS, nevermind the environmental groups that hang over their shoulder, want to turn our public lands into wilderness areas.
w

Well of course they do. It's the re-wilding project. It's Agenda 21. Read about it here
http://www.independentsentinel.com/agenda-21-a-plan-to-take-your-land-and-give-it-to-tortoises-and-pagosa-skyrockets/

Offline Skyvalhunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 15706
  • Location: Sky valley/Methow
Re: Forest Service Demolishes Access to Private Property
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2018, 05:34:50 AM »
They could sell a single timber sale and pay for the entire forests maintenance for the year, nevermind the benefit it does for local jobs. They have been so delinquent on their routine maintenance that they can now say it'll cost too much to fix. I really do believe that a large contingent of folks inside the USFS, nevermind the environmental groups that hang over their shoulder, want to turn our public lands into wilderness areas.
Timber sales was the number one suggestion by a group I was involved in when the USFS was looking for suggestions on paying for road maintenance and keeping roads open. But they have a limited amount of personnel for setting up the Timber sales. For one timber sale in my area they had to borrow personnel from another ranger district. Then throw in the fact Cantwell and Murray keep creating and expanding Wilderness areas.
The only man who never makes a mistake, is the man who never does anything!!
The further one goes into the wilderness, the greater the attraction of its lonely freedom.

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Let’s see your best Washington buck by high_hunter
[Yesterday at 10:31:08 PM]


Bearpaw Season - Spring 2024 by actionshooter
[Yesterday at 09:43:51 PM]


Walked a cougar down by MADMAX
[Yesterday at 08:31:53 PM]


Which 12” boat trailer tires? by timberhunter
[Yesterday at 08:22:18 PM]


Lowest power 22 round? by JakeLand
[Yesterday at 08:06:13 PM]


1x scopes vs open sights by JakeLand
[Yesterday at 07:29:35 PM]


Long Beach Clamming Tides by Encore 280
[Yesterday at 05:16:00 PM]


WTS Suppressors I Can Get by dreadi
[Yesterday at 03:30:33 PM]


SB 5444 signed by Inslee on 03/26 Takes Effect on 06/06/24 by Longfield1
[Yesterday at 03:27:51 PM]


Straight on by kentrek
[Yesterday at 03:04:53 PM]


2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals by trophyhunt
[Yesterday at 01:51:40 PM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal