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Author Topic: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine  (Read 24267 times)

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2020, 01:21:59 PM »
With the virus and the economy in shambles, I don't see Trump being president come January, and I think the republicans are going to take a bath as a whole. If it goes that way, hopefully this will be put to death forever. If I recall correctly, it isn't even an American company, is it? Isn't this destroying one of our greatest treasures for the profit of a Canadian company?
So you think Quid Pro Joe the kiddie sniffer is gonna win?

Right now, yes, because of the economy. If the economy turns around, then maybe not. Granted, we/ve never been where we are before, but when the economy is wrecked during the election year, the incumbent always loses.  We'll all find out together. Personally, I don't care for either of them and think this election is another no-win for most of us.

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2020, 02:18:08 PM »
It keeps getting worse, corruption does no good for our environment. If this mine is put in, essentially a mine can be put anywhere in the US; scary.

https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/US-Army-Corps-of-Engineers-completes-preliminary-EIS-for-proposed-Alaska-Pebble-Mine-project-567770511.html

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/taryn-kiekow-heimer/pebble-mine-army-corps-rushes-out-another-flawed-review

Agreed. There was talk of a copper mine to be started near the southern border of Chewuch Unit (218) that seemed to fizzle out but now I am worried that is going to happen. Open pit mine I think

The future of Bristol Bay and its fisheries are not looking good

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/joel-reynolds/pebble-mine-going-broke
https://www.adn.com/opinions/2020/04/12/rushing-pebble-mine-review-during-a-pandemic-is-reckless/

No better time to move this forward then when no one is paying attention. If this push is successful it'll be a tragedy at best. These kinds of efforts with total disregard for environmental health, and against all public will are why the Repub party struggle to win my votes. I'm aligned in many ways to the values, in others we are so far apart it is not even close. Besides the incredible lobbying efforts behind this, I've never heard a coherent argument as to why this should move forward.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Offline stlusn30-06

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2020, 03:03:59 PM »
It keeps getting worse, corruption does no good for our environment. If this mine is put in, essentially a mine can be put anywhere in the US; scary.

https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/US-Army-Corps-of-Engineers-completes-preliminary-EIS-for-proposed-Alaska-Pebble-Mine-project-567770511.html

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/taryn-kiekow-heimer/pebble-mine-army-corps-rushes-out-another-flawed-review

Agreed. There was talk of a copper mine to be started near the southern border of Chewuch Unit (218) that seemed to fizzle out but now I am worried that is going to happen. Open pit mine I think

The future of Bristol Bay and its fisheries are not looking good

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/joel-reynolds/pebble-mine-going-broke
https://www.adn.com/opinions/2020/04/12/rushing-pebble-mine-review-during-a-pandemic-is-reckless/

No better time to move this forward then when no one is paying attention. If this push is successful it'll be a tragedy at best. These kinds of efforts with total disregard for environmental health, and against all public will are why the Repub party struggle to win my votes. I'm aligned in many ways to the values, in others we are so far apart it is not even close. Besides the incredible lobbying efforts behind this, I've never heard a coherent argument as to why this should move forward.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yeah. Lobbyist $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. According to the studies, the calculated potential economic losses to the fishery, tourism, environment etc...far outweigh the value of the mine. That is what I meant by "coherent argument"
“There are people in my life who sometimes worry about me when I go off into the fields and streams, not realizing that the country is a calm, gracious, forgiving place and that the real dangers are found in the civilization you have to pass through to get there." - Gierach

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2020, 01:46:22 PM »
With the virus and the economy in shambles, I don't see Trump being president come January, and I think the republicans are going to take a bath as a whole. If it goes that way, hopefully this will be put to death forever. If I recall correctly, it isn't even an American company, is it? Isn't this destroying one of our greatest treasures for the profit of a Canadian company?
So you think Quid Pro Joe the kiddie sniffer is gonna win?

Right now, yes, because of the economy. If the economy turns around, then maybe not. Granted, we/ve never been where we are before, but when the economy is wrecked during the election year, the incumbent always loses.  We'll all find out together. Personally, I don't care for either of them and think this election is another no-win for most of us.

I don't know man... The look on his face when he's sniffing all them kids on live TV! It's just too weird! And then when the union worker guy asked him about guns and he lied right to his face and then threatened him and asked if he wanted to "go outside"? Every campaign stop he attempts, he has another unimaginable gaffe. And what about when he already had to drop out of the presidential race in 1988 because he was caught red handed and admitted to lying and plagiarism? What changed since 1988? I do know he has engaged in numerous illegal activities especially involving his son Hunter, who is an under qualified drug addict (remember when he left a crackpipe in his rental car in Arizona?) , sitting on the boards of multiple foreign corporations, most notably in the Ukraine and China. I'd say he's a worse candidate than Hillary. Quite possibly the worst candidate for any office in the history of this country.

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2020, 03:14:23 PM »
I agree with you, but I think most of America will want a change to anyone but Trump. Especially now that it's coming out the loan program for small businesses is being used to dump cash on hedge funds, bankers & finance firms that aren't being hurt by the lock down. I think that added to the mine will cook his goose come November.

Offline stlusn30-06

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2020, 09:48:30 AM »
With the virus and the economy in shambles, I don't see Trump being president come January, and I think the republicans are going to take a bath as a whole. If it goes that way, hopefully this will be put to death forever. If I recall correctly, it isn't even an American company, is it? Isn't this destroying one of our greatest treasures for the profit of a Canadian company?
So you think Quid Pro Joe the kiddie sniffer is gonna win?

Right now, yes, because of the economy. If the economy turns around, then maybe not. Granted, we/ve never been where we are before, but when the economy is wrecked during the election year, the incumbent always loses.  We'll all find out together. Personally, I don't care for either of them and think this election is another no-win for most of us.

I don't know man... The look on his face when he's sniffing all them kids on live TV! It's just too weird! And then when the union worker guy asked him about guns and he lied right to his face and then threatened him and asked if he wanted to "go outside"? Every campaign stop he attempts, he has another unimaginable gaffe. And what about when he already had to drop out of the presidential race in 1988 because he was caught red handed and admitted to lying and plagiarism? What changed since 1988? I do know he has engaged in numerous illegal activities especially involving his son Hunter, who is an under qualified drug addict (remember when he left a crackpipe in his rental car in Arizona?) , sitting on the boards of multiple foreign corporations, most notably in the Ukraine and China. I'd say he's a worse candidate than Hillary. Quite possibly the worst candidate for any office in the history of this country.

All of this stuff doesn't matter anymore. No matter what side you tend to vote. The last election, and the last 3.25 years has completely changed who can do what, and still be considered a viable candidate, and for the worse.  In the lead up the the last election had you said some who said "you can grab em by p#$$%" and "I moved on her like a b&$ch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married." would get elected or be a viable candidate the world of laughed. Uncle Joe sniffing heads is weird as hell, but Trump moving on married women like a b#$tch is equally or more repulsive. The old rules are gone, and no one is paying attention to what is happening behind closed doors because of it. Hence, the actual topic of this thread making progress while all eyes are looking the other way. 
“There are people in my life who sometimes worry about me when I go off into the fields and streams, not realizing that the country is a calm, gracious, forgiving place and that the real dangers are found in the civilization you have to pass through to get there." - Gierach

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2020, 10:19:03 AM »
With the virus and the economy in shambles, I don't see Trump being president come January, and I think the republicans are going to take a bath as a whole. If it goes that way, hopefully this will be put to death forever. If I recall correctly, it isn't even an American company, is it? Isn't this destroying one of our greatest treasures for the profit of a Canadian company?
So you think Quid Pro Joe the kiddie sniffer is gonna win?

Right now, yes, because of the economy. If the economy turns around, then maybe not. Granted, we/ve never been where we are before, but when the economy is wrecked during the election year, the incumbent always loses.  We'll all find out together. Personally, I don't care for either of them and think this election is another no-win for most of us.

I don't know man... The look on his face when he's sniffing all them kids on live TV! It's just too weird! And then when the union worker guy asked him about guns and he lied right to his face and then threatened him and asked if he wanted to "go outside"? Every campaign stop he attempts, he has another unimaginable gaffe. And what about when he already had to drop out of the presidential race in 1988 because he was caught red handed and admitted to lying and plagiarism? What changed since 1988? I do know he has engaged in numerous illegal activities especially involving his son Hunter, who is an under qualified drug addict (remember when he left a crackpipe in his rental car in Arizona?) , sitting on the boards of multiple foreign corporations, most notably in the Ukraine and China. I'd say he's a worse candidate than Hillary. Quite possibly the worst candidate for any office in the history of this country.

All of this stuff doesn't matter anymore. No matter what side you tend to vote. The last election, and the last 3.25 years has completely changed who can do what, and still be considered a viable candidate, and for the worse.  In the lead up the the last election had you said some who said "you can grab em by p#$$%" and "I moved on her like a b&$ch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married." would get elected or be a viable candidate the world of laughed. Uncle Joe sniffing heads is weird as hell, but Trump moving on married women like a b#$tch is equally or more repulsive. The old rules are gone, and no one is paying attention to what is happening behind closed doors because of it. Hence, the actual topic of this thread making progress while all eyes are looking the other way.
I can see how some could think that... Especially living on the west coast. It's quite a bit different sentiment between the coasts if you ask me. I think the only chance the Dems have is via voter fraud, which unfortunately is a very legitimate threat, further legitimized by the Dems staunch opposition to voter Id laws often based on the flimsiest of pretenses. Black people can't make it to the DMV? Gimme a break, that's the most racist thing I've ever heard! Just saying, if you've got dead relatives in a Democrat run state you might want to check if they voted posthumously, and how many times!

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2020, 10:38:00 AM »
Everyone better hope that the Bristol Bay commercial sockeye season happens without incident. Otherwise that local economy will be in shambles and the prospect of year-round employment through Pebble Partnership will be looking pretty damn good to the native corporations.

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2020, 12:55:17 PM »
With the virus and the economy in shambles, I don't see Trump being president come January, and I think the republicans are going to take a bath as a whole. If it goes that way, hopefully this will be put to death forever. If I recall correctly, it isn't even an American company, is it? Isn't this destroying one of our greatest treasures for the profit of a Canadian company?
So you think Quid Pro Joe the kiddie sniffer is gonna win?

Right now, yes, because of the economy. If the economy turns around, then maybe not. Granted, we/ve never been where we are before, but when the economy is wrecked during the election year, the incumbent always loses.  We'll all find out together. Personally, I don't care for either of them and think this election is another no-win for most of us.

I don't know man... The look on his face when he's sniffing all them kids on live TV! It's just too weird! And then when the union worker guy asked him about guns and he lied right to his face and then threatened him and asked if he wanted to "go outside"? Every campaign stop he attempts, he has another unimaginable gaffe. And what about when he already had to drop out of the presidential race in 1988 because he was caught red handed and admitted to lying and plagiarism? What changed since 1988? I do know he has engaged in numerous illegal activities especially involving his son Hunter, who is an under qualified drug addict (remember when he left a crackpipe in his rental car in Arizona?) , sitting on the boards of multiple foreign corporations, most notably in the Ukraine and China. I'd say he's a worse candidate than Hillary. Quite possibly the worst candidate for any office in the history of this country.

All of this stuff doesn't matter anymore. No matter what side you tend to vote. The last election, and the last 3.25 years has completely changed who can do what, and still be considered a viable candidate, and for the worse.  In the lead up the the last election had you said some who said "you can grab em by p#$$%" and "I moved on her like a b&$ch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married." would get elected or be a viable candidate the world of laughed. Uncle Joe sniffing heads is weird as hell, but Trump moving on married women like a b#$tch is equally or more repulsive. The old rules are gone, and no one is paying attention to what is happening behind closed doors because of it. Hence, the actual topic of this thread making progress while all eyes are looking the other way.
I can see how some could think that... Especially living on the west coast. It's quite a bit different sentiment between the coasts if you ask me. I think the only chance the Dems have is via voter fraud, which unfortunately is a very legitimate threat, further legitimized by the Dems staunch opposition to voter Id laws often based on the flimsiest of pretenses. Black people can't make it to the DMV? Gimme a break, that's the most racist thing I've ever heard! Just saying, if you've got dead relatives in a Democrat run state you might want to check if they voted posthumously, and how many times!

This isn't a matter of thinking anything, and doesn't have anything to do with living on the West Coast. I'm not even saying Trump won't win. Are you saying that people between the coasts think it not normal to sniff hair, but is normal (and therefore nothing has changed) to move on a married woman like a b$%ch? I actually think Trump wins this, and agree that Biden is a terrible candidate.

On the voter fraud thing, don't believe all the propaganda you've been getting fed. The Heritage Foundation, which is a major conservative think tank, has a fairly detailed database around voter fraud. It is found in every state, not just dem states. More importantly, they have documented a whopping 1,277 total cases in the U.S. That is an infinitesimally small percentage of the billions of votes cast over the years. I'm guessing you'll counter with "but ballot harvesting! We have to stop mail in balloting" since that is all the rage in the propaganda machine now. The only significant fraud case involving ballot harvesting was committed by a North Carolina GOP operative. I vote Republican when the candidate is right btw. I am just willing to acknowledge that both sides seed their base with a lot of disinformation. Voter fraud is one of them. What Dems are saying is that voter fraud isn't actually a problem (which is backed up by the conservatives own data as pointed out here), and that these laws will disenfranchise voters. Why are we making it harder to vote to solve for a problem that doesn't exist?
“There are people in my life who sometimes worry about me when I go off into the fields and streams, not realizing that the country is a calm, gracious, forgiving place and that the real dangers are found in the civilization you have to pass through to get there." - Gierach

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2020, 04:43:54 PM »
With the virus and the economy in shambles, I don't see Trump being president come January, and I think the republicans are going to take a bath as a whole. If it goes that way, hopefully this will be put to death forever. If I recall correctly, it isn't even an American company, is it? Isn't this destroying one of our greatest treasures for the profit of a Canadian company?
So you think Quid Pro Joe the kiddie sniffer is gonna win?

Right now, yes, because of the economy. If the economy turns around, then maybe not. Granted, we/ve never been where we are before, but when the economy is wrecked during the election year, the incumbent always loses.  We'll all find out together. Personally, I don't care for either of them and think this election is another no-win for most of us.

I don't know man... The look on his face when he's sniffing all them kids on live TV! It's just too weird! And then when the union worker guy asked him about guns and he lied right to his face and then threatened him and asked if he wanted to "go outside"? Every campaign stop he attempts, he has another unimaginable gaffe. And what about when he already had to drop out of the presidential race in 1988 because he was caught red handed and admitted to lying and plagiarism? What changed since 1988? I do know he has engaged in numerous illegal activities especially involving his son Hunter, who is an under qualified drug addict (remember when he left a crackpipe in his rental car in Arizona?) , sitting on the boards of multiple foreign corporations, most notably in the Ukraine and China. I'd say he's a worse candidate than Hillary. Quite possibly the worst candidate for any office in the history of this country.

All of this stuff doesn't matter anymore. No matter what side you tend to vote. The last election, and the last 3.25 years has completely changed who can do what, and still be considered a viable candidate, and for the worse.  In the lead up the the last election had you said some who said "you can grab em by p#$$%" and "I moved on her like a b&$ch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married." would get elected or be a viable candidate the world of laughed. Uncle Joe sniffing heads is weird as hell, but Trump moving on married women like a b#$tch is equally or more repulsive. The old rules are gone, and no one is paying attention to what is happening behind closed doors because of it. Hence, the actual topic of this thread making progress while all eyes are looking the other way.
I can see how some could think that... Especially living on the west coast. It's quite a bit different sentiment between the coasts if you ask me. I think the only chance the Dems have is via voter fraud, which unfortunately is a very legitimate threat, further legitimized by the Dems staunch opposition to voter Id laws often based on the flimsiest of pretenses. Black people can't make it to the DMV? Gimme a break, that's the most racist thing I've ever heard! Just saying, if you've got dead relatives in a Democrat run state you might want to check if they voted posthumously, and how many times!

This isn't a matter of thinking anything, and doesn't have anything to do with living on the West Coast. I'm not even saying Trump won't win. Are you saying that people between the coasts think it not normal to sniff hair, but is normal (and therefore nothing has changed) to move on a married woman like a b$%ch? I actually think Trump wins this, and agree that Biden is a terrible candidate.

On the voter fraud thing, don't believe all the propaganda you've been getting fed. The Heritage Foundation, which is a major conservative think tank, has a fairly detailed database around voter fraud. It is found in every state, not just dem states. More importantly, they have documented a whopping 1,277 total cases in the U.S. That is an infinitesimally small percentage of the billions of votes cast over the years. I'm guessing you'll counter with "but ballot harvesting! We have to stop mail in balloting" since that is all the rage in the propaganda machine now. The only significant fraud case involving ballot harvesting was committed by a North Carolina GOP operative. I vote Republican when the candidate is right btw. I am just willing to acknowledge that both sides seed their base with a lot of disinformation. Voter fraud is one of them. What Dems are saying is that voter fraud isn't actually a problem (which is backed up by the conservatives own data as pointed out here), and that these laws will disenfranchise voters. Why are we making it harder to vote to solve for a problem that doesn't exist?
Nah... My thoughts on voter fraud revolve around common sense, and understanding human nature. If there aren't safeguards in place to prevent abusing the system... people are going to abuse the system. Do you really think the honor system is the best way to go about electing officials? Every devolped western nation and most of the third world have a voter ID system. It's just common sense.

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2020, 04:58:32 PM »
With the virus and the economy in shambles, I don't see Trump being president come January, and I think the republicans are going to take a bath as a whole. If it goes that way, hopefully this will be put to death forever. If I recall correctly, it isn't even an American company, is it? Isn't this destroying one of our greatest treasures for the profit of a Canadian company?
So you think Quid Pro Joe the kiddie sniffer is gonna win?

Right now, yes, because of the economy. If the economy turns around, then maybe not. Granted, we/ve never been where we are before, but when the economy is wrecked during the election year, the incumbent always loses.  We'll all find out together. Personally, I don't care for either of them and think this election is another no-win for most of us.

I don't know man... The look on his face when he's sniffing all them kids on live TV! It's just too weird! And then when the union worker guy asked him about guns and he lied right to his face and then threatened him and asked if he wanted to "go outside"? Every campaign stop he attempts, he has another unimaginable gaffe. And what about when he already had to drop out of the presidential race in 1988 because he was caught red handed and admitted to lying and plagiarism? What changed since 1988? I do know he has engaged in numerous illegal activities especially involving his son Hunter, who is an under qualified drug addict (remember when he left a crackpipe in his rental car in Arizona?) , sitting on the boards of multiple foreign corporations, most notably in the Ukraine and China. I'd say he's a worse candidate than Hillary. Quite possibly the worst candidate for any office in the history of this country.

All of this stuff doesn't matter anymore. No matter what side you tend to vote. The last election, and the last 3.25 years has completely changed who can do what, and still be considered a viable candidate, and for the worse.  In the lead up the the last election had you said some who said "you can grab em by p#$$%" and "I moved on her like a b&$ch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married." would get elected or be a viable candidate the world of laughed. Uncle Joe sniffing heads is weird as hell, but Trump moving on married women like a b#$tch is equally or more repulsive. The old rules are gone, and no one is paying attention to what is happening behind closed doors because of it. Hence, the actual topic of this thread making progress while all eyes are looking the other way.
I can see how some could think that... Especially living on the west coast. It's quite a bit different sentiment between the coasts if you ask me. I think the only chance the Dems have is via voter fraud, which unfortunately is a very legitimate threat, further legitimized by the Dems staunch opposition to voter Id laws often based on the flimsiest of pretenses. Black people can't make it to the DMV? Gimme a break, that's the most racist thing I've ever heard! Just saying, if you've got dead relatives in a Democrat run state you might want to check if they voted posthumously, and how many times!

This isn't a matter of thinking anything, and doesn't have anything to do with living on the West Coast. I'm not even saying Trump won't win. Are you saying that people between the coasts think it not normal to sniff hair, but is normal (and therefore nothing has changed) to move on a married woman like a b$%ch? I actually think Trump wins this, and agree that Biden is a terrible candidate.

On the voter fraud thing, don't believe all the propaganda you've been getting fed. The Heritage Foundation, which is a major conservative think tank, has a fairly detailed database around voter fraud. It is found in every state, not just dem states. More importantly, they have documented a whopping 1,277 total cases in the U.S. That is an infinitesimally small percentage of the billions of votes cast over the years. I'm guessing you'll counter with "but ballot harvesting! We have to stop mail in balloting" since that is all the rage in the propaganda machine now. The only significant fraud case involving ballot harvesting was committed by a North Carolina GOP operative. I vote Republican when the candidate is right btw. I am just willing to acknowledge that both sides seed their base with a lot of disinformation. Voter fraud is one of them. What Dems are saying is that voter fraud isn't actually a problem (which is backed up by the conservatives own data as pointed out here), and that these laws will disenfranchise voters. Why are we making it harder to vote to solve for a problem that doesn't exist?
Nah... My thoughts on voter fraud revolve around common sense, and understanding human nature. If there aren't safeguards in place to prevent abusing the system... people are going to abuse the system. Do you really think the honor system is the best way to go about electing officials? Every devolped western nation and most of the third world have a voter ID system. It's just common sense.

This is fun and all, but hate to have hijacked this thread. My apologies. Your common sense vs what the even the conservative think tank data says. No need to bother any further with that compelling statement.
“There are people in my life who sometimes worry about me when I go off into the fields and streams, not realizing that the country is a calm, gracious, forgiving place and that the real dangers are found in the civilization you have to pass through to get there." - Gierach

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2020, 09:48:49 AM »
It keeps getting worse, corruption does no good for our environment. If this mine is put in, essentially a mine can be put anywhere in the US; scary.

https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/US-Army-Corps-of-Engineers-completes-preliminary-EIS-for-proposed-Alaska-Pebble-Mine-project-567770511.html

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/taryn-kiekow-heimer/pebble-mine-army-corps-rushes-out-another-flawed-review

Agreed. There was talk of a copper mine to be started near the southern border of Chewuch Unit (218) that seemed to fizzle out but now I am worried that is going to happen. Open pit mine I think

The future of Bristol Bay and its fisheries are not looking good

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/joel-reynolds/pebble-mine-going-broke
https://www.adn.com/opinions/2020/04/12/rushing-pebble-mine-review-during-a-pandemic-is-reckless/

No better time to move this forward then when no one is paying attention. If this push is successful it'll be a tragedy at best. These kinds of efforts with total disregard for environmental health, and against all public will are why the Repub party struggle to win my votes. I'm aligned in many ways to the values, in others we are so far apart it is not even close. Besides the incredible lobbying efforts behind this, I've never heard a coherent argument as to why this should move forward.

You got my vote. Agree with this entirely.

Offline OutHouse

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Re: Trumps EPA says NO to Pebble Mine
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2020, 09:51:09 AM »
With the virus and the economy in shambles, I don't see Trump being president come January, and I think the republicans are going to take a bath as a whole. If it goes that way, hopefully this will be put to death forever. If I recall correctly, it isn't even an American company, is it? Isn't this destroying one of our greatest treasures for the profit of a Canadian company?
So you think Quid Pro Joe the kiddie sniffer is gonna win?

Right now, yes, because of the economy. If the economy turns around, then maybe not. Granted, we/ve never been where we are before, but when the economy is wrecked during the election year, the incumbent always loses.  We'll all find out together. Personally, I don't care for either of them and think this election is another no-win for most of us.

I don't know man... The look on his face when he's sniffing all them kids on live TV! It's just too weird! And then when the union worker guy asked him about guns and he lied right to his face and then threatened him and asked if he wanted to "go outside"? Every campaign stop he attempts, he has another unimaginable gaffe. And what about when he already had to drop out of the presidential race in 1988 because he was caught red handed and admitted to lying and plagiarism? What changed since 1988? I do know he has engaged in numerous illegal activities especially involving his son Hunter, who is an under qualified drug addict (remember when he left a crackpipe in his rental car in Arizona?) , sitting on the boards of multiple foreign corporations, most notably in the Ukraine and China. I'd say he's a worse candidate than Hillary. Quite possibly the worst candidate for any office in the history of this country.

All of this stuff doesn't matter anymore. No matter what side you tend to vote. The last election, and the last 3.25 years has completely changed who can do what, and still be considered a viable candidate, and for the worse.  In the lead up the the last election had you said some who said "you can grab em by p#$$%" and "I moved on her like a b&$ch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married." would get elected or be a viable candidate the world of laughed. Uncle Joe sniffing heads is weird as hell, but Trump moving on married women like a b#$tch is equally or more repulsive. The old rules are gone, and no one is paying attention to what is happening behind closed doors because of it. Hence, the actual topic of this thread making progress while all eyes are looking the other way.
I can see how some could think that... Especially living on the west coast. It's quite a bit different sentiment between the coasts if you ask me. I think the only chance the Dems have is via voter fraud, which unfortunately is a very legitimate threat, further legitimized by the Dems staunch opposition to voter Id laws often based on the flimsiest of pretenses. Black people can't make it to the DMV? Gimme a break, that's the most racist thing I've ever heard! Just saying, if you've got dead relatives in a Democrat run state you might want to check if they voted posthumously, and how many times!

This isn't a matter of thinking anything, and doesn't have anything to do with living on the West Coast. I'm not even saying Trump won't win. Are you saying that people between the coasts think it not normal to sniff hair, but is normal (and therefore nothing has changed) to move on a married woman like a b$%ch? I actually think Trump wins this, and agree that Biden is a terrible candidate.

On the voter fraud thing, don't believe all the propaganda you've been getting fed. The Heritage Foundation, which is a major conservative think tank, has a fairly detailed database around voter fraud. It is found in every state, not just dem states. More importantly, they have documented a whopping 1,277 total cases in the U.S. That is an infinitesimally small percentage of the billions of votes cast over the years. I'm guessing you'll counter with "but ballot harvesting! We have to stop mail in balloting" since that is all the rage in the propaganda machine now. The only significant fraud case involving ballot harvesting was committed by a North Carolina GOP operative. I vote Republican when the candidate is right btw. I am just willing to acknowledge that both sides seed their base with a lot of disinformation. Voter fraud is one of them. What Dems are saying is that voter fraud isn't actually a problem (which is backed up by the conservatives own data as pointed out here), and that these laws will disenfranchise voters. Why are we making it harder to vote to solve for a problem that doesn't exist?
Nah... My thoughts on voter fraud revolve around common sense, and understanding human nature. If there aren't safeguards in place to prevent abusing the system... people are going to abuse the system. Do you really think the honor system is the best way to go about electing officials? Every devolped western nation and most of the third world have a voter ID system. It's just common sense.

Yea I'd have to look at those heritage foundation numbers again but my recollection is when you spread out the voter fraud cases over all the elections covered, the number was extremely small. It's a fun right wing talking point, however, they never seem to want to discuss the actual numbers (and the fact that those numbers also came from a conservative think tank).

 


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