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Author Topic: I donít know why I am surprised  (Read 3437 times)

Offline Bullytrout

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I donít know why I am surprised
« on: February 18, 2018, 10:24:25 AM »
I know I shouldnít be, but I am always surprised by how uninformed  outdoor user groups are about each other.  Particularly when it comes to trapping.  I remember plenty of conversations with avid hunters when 713 was on the ballot who were all in favor of ending trapping outright.

Below is a link to a thread started by a guy who blundered into a 330 on the deschutes in Oregon.  Given the nature of the people who post on that site the posts are chill (they can get far more worked up about anything steelhead related)

link removed
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 05:14:47 PM by Bullytrout »

Offline Bill W

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 10:52:44 AM »
I thought I detected a bunch of NIMBY attitude.

Offline cem3434

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2018, 10:55:42 AM »
Wow, if they are outdoorsman then we are in trouble. Seem like a bunch of libertards except for the finluver guy that only care about fishing and not the outdoors as a whole.
The best friend a guy could have asked for. RIP chasing pheasants in heaven Denali girl.

Offline Bullkllr

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 11:27:21 AM »
I think it shows a lot of uninformed attitudes. And probably some arrogance from some who are obviously too far removed to understand trapping's important role in comprehensive wildlife management.
"yoogle that on your google"

Offline Humptulips

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2018, 02:54:27 PM »
The young trapper probably needs a little mentoring and warned to be more cautious. Instead they post his name and phone and threaten to do him bodily harm.
The lesson he will learn is to not put personal info on his trap tag and that fly fisherman are a holes.
We know most fly fisherman aren't but that is the lesson this kid will take away all because of a few people with bad attitudes.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline Timberstalker

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2018, 03:39:19 PM »
The young trapper probably needs a little mentoring and warned to be more cautious. Instead they post his name and phone and threaten to do him bodily harm.
The lesson he will learn is to not put personal info on his trap tag and that fly fisherman are a holes.
We know most fly fisherman aren't but that is the lesson this kid will take away all because of a few people with bad attitudes.

Well said.
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Offline Bullytrout

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2018, 04:57:16 PM »
The young trapper probably needs a little mentoring and warned to be more cautious. Instead they post his name and phone and threaten to do him bodily harm.
The lesson he will learn is to not put personal info on his trap tag and that fly fisherman are a holes.
We know most fly fisherman aren't but that is the lesson this kid will take away all because of a few people with bad attitudes.

I agree with Bruce.  I think I am extra sensitive to putting his information on the web due to my experiences.  When I took the trappers ed course in Ď90 there was far more people protesting out front of the gate than were enrolled in the class.  I was escorted from my parents car through the gate by two officers with shotguns while a handful of other officers guarded the gate and building.
I got a trapping I.d. # before I ever made a single set.  There was no way I was putting my name & address on any of my traps.

Offline TVHunts

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2018, 05:01:15 PM »
Iím not a trapper but somehow I am offended by their attitude.  On top of that, I think Iíd take little Oíl Zac over a the guy who thinks he needs his a#* kicked.

I find it a little odd that ďPaulĒ didnít post a picture of his finger.  He took the time to post the take out location and mark it up but not his finger that was injured.  Just seems a little ď fly fishyĒ to me!  :twocents:
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Offline huntingfool7

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2018, 05:02:46 PM »
I think the link should be removed, it doesn't do any of us any good leaving it up there.  Especially the info on that trap tag should not be available here.
 The trap was set legally by Oregon state laws.  I talked to the trapper and it is NOT a 330.

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2018, 05:14:51 PM »
Looks like a 330 to me.  Next size down is 7Ē 220.

Offline Bullytrout

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2018, 05:19:18 PM »
Looks like a 330 to me as well.  I took the link down to minimize the exposure of the guys personal information.  Probably doesnít matter since any exposure on here is more likely benign than having it up on that site.

Offline huntingfool7

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2018, 05:22:46 PM »
I also thought it looked like a Duke 330.  It's not.  Guessing Paul_ has Presidential sized hands.

Offline HUNTINCOUPLE

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 05:42:39 PM »
330.
Slap some bacon on a biscut and lets go, were burrnin daylight!

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Offline JakeLand

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 07:00:29 PM »
The next size down is a 280 which is 8"x8" but regardless of the size of the conibear he was legal and the idiot that took the trap broke the law END OF STORY!!  As far as I'm concerned the uppety yuppety fly guy should get cited

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 07:12:37 PM »
Why is someone trying to flyfish in an area with beavers (or otters or rats)?  That's kind of where you expect trappers to be.

Offline huntingfool7

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2018, 07:58:51 PM »
@Jakeland  The guy didn't take the trap.

Offline JakeLand

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2018, 08:05:01 PM »
Oh I thought he did ? Or did he toss it in the river ?

Offline jackelope

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2018, 08:32:54 PM »
Why is someone trying to flyfish in an area with beavers (or otters or rats)?  That's kind of where you expect trappers to be.

I donít have a dog in this fight but the Deschutes is world class flyfishing for steelhead and red band rainbows. Iíve fished upstream from Warm Springs to Maupin but putting in at Maupin and floating down is a very popular float also.
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Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2018, 08:40:41 PM »
If I'm a fisherman I want those otters trapped.......

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2018, 09:53:34 PM »
Why is someone trying to flyfish in an area with beavers (or otters or rats)?  That's kind of where you expect trappers to be.

I donít have a dog in this fight but the Deschutes is world class flyfishing for steelhead and red band rainbows. Iíve fished upstream from Warm Springs to Maupin but putting in at Maupin and floating down is a very popular float also.
Oh, I know Jackelope.  I was just being a little of a smart alec based on some of the comments at the link.  You go where the fish/beaver/(fill in the animal you want) are.  Trappers have only been working that river for about 200 years now, so not sure why it was so surprising.  I'll try not to derail anymore.

Offline huntingfool7

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2018, 01:46:18 PM »
Updated today-


Offline jlahoe

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2018, 02:37:52 PM »
I wonder if Paul feels like an ass now for posting all the gentleman's information and having all the other fisherman talk crap and threaten the guy.  Lesson should be talk to the person instead of blasting them online.

 :twocents:

Offline huntingfool7

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2018, 09:45:25 AM »
@Bullytrout  Thanks for the heads up on this.

The thread over there was deleted.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2018, 11:27:12 AM »
Unfortunately too many people who only see things through their own goggles and think they are the only users who should be in the outdoors!  :bash:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline Bullytrout

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2018, 07:45:24 PM »
I am pleased that the original thread was deleted. Thank you to all of you who had anything to do with making that happen.


Offline GBoyd

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2018, 07:59:10 PM »
The guy that got trapped is a friend of a friend. Hearing the description, I was honestly pretty angry with the trapper for his choice of location. That area is a zoo- so busy I don't like to fish there. Maybe he tucked the set out of the way where he thought it would be safe, but a 330 anywhere in that area seems too risky. There's more golden retrievers swimming around out there than beavers.

I took up trapping last year because I wanted to give it a try before they ban it here in Oregon like they have in other states. With the attitudes you hear in Portland, I know we could lose it at any time. I wonder if the trapper's association would consider getting behind a ban or additional restrictions on 330s. Incidents like this create a ton of opponents to trapping, even among other sportsmen. The recent anti-trapping ballot initiative in Montana had a lot of support from bird hunters who had heard of dogs being killed in conibears. The press is so bad that I worry we'll lose all body-gripping traps if we don't self police a little more.

Offline Humptulips

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2018, 11:20:37 AM »
I don't think further restrictions are the answer. The problem is how do you teach responsible trapping and getting along with other user groups to new trappers? I think the only way is to drum it into prospective trappers in a class. Drive home the point of the consequences of not thinking things through.
In OR they have a very good home study class to get a license but IMO it is not the same as listening to an experienced trapper talking to you about responsible trapping.
in this case it was a young kid probably just starting. He probably didn't know many places he could set a trap and he comes on what he thought was a good spot. If 330s were illegal would it have helped if he used a large foothold there or even a 220, maybe even a small foothold. Probably not, it was just a place he should have passed by. Sometimes that is tough to do when you find just a great set. Especially so in these days of reduced access. The kid probably learned a valuable lesson and really the guy who complained wasn't hurt so in this case things didn't go too wrong. The lesson is to think beforehand. I don't know that you can legislate that.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline GBoyd

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2018, 07:20:10 PM »
in this case it was a young kid probably just starting. He probably didn't know many places he could set a trap and he comes on what he thought was a good spot. If 330s were illegal would it have helped if he used a large foothold there or even a 220, maybe even a small foothold. Probably not, it was just a place he should have passed by. Sometimes that is tough to do when you find just a great set. Especially so in these days of reduced access. The kid probably learned a valuable lesson and really the guy who complained wasn't hurt so in this case things didn't go too wrong. The lesson is to think beforehand. I don't know that you can legislate that.

Yes, I think a foothold or snare would be way better. Either of those, the man would have been able to release himself without injury. It would be much less likely that he then goes and writes anti-trapping posts on fishing forums. The same thing is true with dogs. If my pup gets caught in a TS-85, he'll get a good pinch and a lesson. With the bigger conibears, he'd be dead before I got to him.

I definitely agree with you the same thing could be achieved if trappers would just behave more responsibly, but I don't have much hope of that happening without some legal boundaries.

Currently in Oregon, you can use conibears anywhere, except 330's can only be used in water sets and 280s need to be within 50 feet of water on public lands. I'd like to see that tightened up. Maybe on public land, ban 330s entirely and keep all other conibears in water sets. Remember: we could face a referendum banning all body-gripping traps at any time. Some effort from inside the trapping community now could help us beat that when it comes up.

Offline JakeLand

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2018, 10:23:05 PM »
I disagree with Gboyd on his stance about trapping. This fly fisherman would have whined and done a social media cry no matter what kinda trap it was . Why should trappers tip toe around  :dunno:was the set location ideal who knows but the fact is he did it LEGALLY!!! Maybe and just maybe he should pay a little attention when wading in a stream or is it just me that pays attention to what I'm stepping on in water ? and this is how sportsman get divided. Should fishermen only fish in areas that we don't use for trapping because I'm pretty sure a lot of the rivers have been being trapped Well before fly fishing was and if it was such a ordeal why wasn't the game dept. called and have them sort it out instead of Facebook?
Jake

Offline Humptulips

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2018, 10:32:41 PM »
I can guarantee you if someone's dog was caught in a TS85 they would be screaming bloody murder just the same. Any trap set there would get the publics ire up if someone wants to make a big deal over it.
The guy wasn't hurt either. Yea, it pinched his finger a bit but him talking like it was broke was just over dramatization.
I'll just add I would consider it a real fluke to catch someone's retriever in an unbaited 330.
As for appeasing the non-trapping crowd by banning 330s a little history lesson. back in 1996 I-655 passed in WA banning hound hunting for bear and cats. HSUS backed it and it passed because they convinced the public it was cruel. WSTA met afterward and the handwriting was on the wall we would see an Initiative on trapping in 4 years. Some thought we could forestall that by changes, namely a 24 hour check on land traps so WSTA asked for it and got it in I believe 97. Did it do us any good? We still lost everything but cages and we are still stuck with that 24 hour check.
I'm not against working with other user groups but be careful what you wish for.
As an aside I did a demo at the Oregon Rendezvous one year on dog proof methods of using 280 conibears for cats on dry ground. Caught a bunch of cats that way back in the day. They lost that set in the rules change a few years ago but actually better for dogs then a foothold.
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Offline JakeLand

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2018, 09:14:06 AM »
BINGO!!!

Offline huntingfool7

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2018, 09:38:19 AM »
It was a 280 set for otter.  It was set at the edge of the river and depending on water level it could have been wet or dry.
I spend time running dogs while bird hunting in North Dakota every year.  I am well aware of the legality of power snares and dry land conis while I'm there. 
As traveling sportsmen, it is our responsibility to be aware of the local laws. 

Offline GBoyd

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2018, 09:42:19 AM »
Maybe you guys are right. I definitely can't be sure that the rule changes I'm arguing for would help us keep trapping longer.

But JakeLand, your approach definitely seems like the wrong direction. Yes, trappers were on the land first. Today though we need to constantly justify our presence on the landscape to the general public. If they see trapping as dangerous we are absolutely going to be voted out. So yes, setting a trap in that location was legal, but it created another few hundred people that are against all types of trapping and will vote against us.

Humptulips, what you were saying was more convincing. Maybe restricting the more dangerous traps won't do enough and we should just enjoy using them until we lose them. As someone who understands traps, I definitely would prefer to be caught in a snare or foothold. I can't necessarily assume that the rest of the public knows enough to agree that they're less dangerous.

This is important to me though. If and when Oregon transitions to rules like you have in Washington, I'm out of the game. I just don't see myself lugging huge box traps around the swamps. I'd like to do whatever possible to keep traditional traps legal.

Offline Humptulips

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2018, 10:14:03 AM »
I hear what you are saying. I just don't think banning certain traps is the answer. Maybe outlawing situational sets like baited large conibears. I believe this was the focus of the law change in OR a few years ago and that was put in place with the cooperation of hound hunting organizations in the State and the OSTA.
I know in MN there is an ongoing bru haha over baited conis for coon which IMO is asking for trouble. The way to do it though is for the groups to get together and try an solve their concerns.
In this case if it was a 280 blind set any retrievers head would go right over it. Baited it would be a problem but the main trouble is just too public a location. Again I don't know how you legislate common sense.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline JakeLand

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2018, 10:28:27 AM »
So not to pick a fight because I'm not
But if you've been trapping a spot for X amount of time and then fishermen start using your set location spot do you quit trapping there ?

Offline Humptulips

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2018, 10:05:57 PM »
So not to pick a fight because I'm not
But if you've been trapping a spot for X amount of time and then fishermen start using your set location spot do you quit trapping there ?
Maybe you have to change the way you set a place if it gets too public but in the end yes it is trappers who will get elbowed out.
Change your question a little to you've been trapping a spot for years and a school baseball field gets built on the spot (actually happened) and you will see what I mean.
You have to make the decision though.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline Skunk Trapper

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2018, 02:10:08 AM »
 :yeah:

Kids baseball field, no choice but to make the decision to move on.

But those granola lovin fly fishers from Portland with the "Free Tibet" sticker on the back of the Volvo wagon who are gonna elbow out trappers....I don't wanna be moving on for them. Hell, add them to the list of furbearers  :yike:

I only trap the little spotted stinkers but this kinda stuff still gets my blood boiling...

Offline JakeLand

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2018, 06:36:52 AM »
 Baseball field, park YEP gotta change a turd that put his foot in a trap and cries on social media and I'm thinking blew things way outta what it was NOPE I wouldn't apologize one bit . I'm going guess this is the same guy that cries foul until something directly effects him but otherwise wouldn't care

Offline jackelope

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2018, 07:53:19 AM »
Reminds me of the dog that got caught in the conibear out here in Cherry Valley a few years back.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline JakeLand

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2018, 09:25:40 AM »
Reminds me of the dog that got caught in the conibear out here in Cherry Valley a few years back.
ya but if I remember right that was a completely illegal set

Offline GBoyd

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2018, 06:41:36 PM »
Yes, I think if more and more people start showing up you eventually have to quit trapping.
I'm going through the same thing at a spot I like to bird hunt. The last couple years, the state of Oregon put up some interpretive signs and cut a trail through. Now my chukar spot has folks dressed up all in bright nylon who glare at me for carrying a shotgun. What do you do though? I just try to be nice to them and hope I have a few more years.

Offline jackelope

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2018, 10:39:54 PM »
Reminds me of the dog that got caught in the conibear out here in Cherry Valley a few years back.
ya but if I remember right that was a completely illegal set

Agreed. It was indeed. Who knows how long that trap was there. Could have been legal when it was set there.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Skunk Trapper

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Re: I donít know why I am surprised
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2018, 11:07:04 PM »
Yes, I think if more and more people start showing up you eventually have to quit trapping.
I'm going through the same thing at a spot I like to bird hunt. The last couple years, the state of Oregon put up some interpretive signs and cut a trail through. Now my chukar spot has folks dressed up all in bright nylon who glare at me for carrying a shotgun. What do you do though? I just try to be nice to them and hope I have a few more years.

Quit trapping...? Come on now   :pee: :lol4: :mor: :kneel:


What do you do?
Go and scout new chukar spots instead of talking on the internet about how you want to get rid of 330 conibears.

I like conibears  :hello:

If they get rid of 330s, next it'll be 280s, then my o'l 110s that I nail dem stinkers with!!

 

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