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Author Topic: Long range for beginners  (Read 45296 times)

Offline TheArmoredShop

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #390 on: March 23, 2019, 02:34:35 PM »
As a long range newbie, I have a question. 

At what range do you typically need to do all these calculations?  I'd like to get into long range hunting and I'm thinking my shots should be limited to 600 yards.  Do I need to go through atmospheric pressure and other calculations/compensation or is drop and wind compensation sufficient for deer hunting at 600 yards?


Nothing wrong with longer range shots on big game, but please be careful and know where you’re really sending the bullet. An ethical kill is the best kill. Nothing I hate to see more than an animal running around with half of its leg blown off.


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Offline jaymark6655

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #391 on: March 25, 2019, 09:47:23 AM »
Depends on when and where you sight your rifle in. The place I hunt is the same altitude that I sight in my rifle, but during the summer its DA can be 3000 feet and in the winter the DA can be -1000 feet. At 600 yards that would be about a 1.5 inch difference in vertical impact and 1 inch difference in a 5 mph crosswind since the air is slowing the round down more during hunting season. Probably not worth worrying about at that range since a 1 mph error in your wind call or 5 yard ranging error will cause about the same deviation depending on rifle and cartridge used. Takeaway, zero your rifle as close as you can to that density altitude that you plan to hunt, but spend the most time practicing reading wind and getting an accurate range to target.
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Offline outdooraddict

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #392 on: March 25, 2019, 01:48:40 PM »
i have a question about "hold-over"  I'm not trying to go 500 yards, but I would like to feel confident at 350-400  I know that is not really "long range"  but I have a standard 3-9x40 vxII with standard reticle, so my question is.... lets say my chart says I drop 8 inches at 300 yrds.  and I know at the range that my target is an 8 inch circle,  when looking through the scope at 300 yrds, do I make a mental measurement on my reticle of 8 inches and then hold over that amount, or do I guess where an 8 inch hold over is.  I would rather not "guess" if there is an animal in front of me.  I want to be comfortable at 400 yrds for a shot, not that it even matters for this question but I know someone will say "drop depends on your caliber"  I shoot a 264 and tomorrow will get my velocity at the range and be able to compute a balitic chart.  last question is, for purpose of hunting eastern washignton, north Idaho, and potentially some Wyoming atelop, should I have a zero at 100 yrds, inch high, zero at 200 etc. or does that not matter as long as I know my zero when I put it in my ballistic calc

Offline Stein

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #393 on: March 25, 2019, 02:02:56 PM »
i have a question about "hold-over"  I'm not trying to go 500 yards, but I would like to feel confident at 350-400  I know that is not really "long range"  but I have a standard 3-9x40 vxII with standard reticle, so my question is.... lets say my chart says I drop 8 inches at 300 yrds.  and I know at the range that my target is an 8 inch circle,  when looking through the scope at 300 yrds, do I make a mental measurement on my reticle of 8 inches and then hold over that amount, or do I guess where an 8 inch hold over is.  I would rather not "guess" if there is an animal in front of me.  I want to be comfortable at 400 yrds for a shot, not that it even matters for this question but I know someone will say "drop depends on your caliber"  I shoot a 264 and tomorrow will get my velocity at the range and be able to compute a balitic chart.  last question is, for purpose of hunting eastern washignton, north Idaho, and potentially some Wyoming atelop, should I have a zero at 100 yrds, inch high, zero at 200 etc. or does that not matter as long as I know my zero when I put it in my ballistic calc

I assume you are only holding over and not adjusting the scope.  In that case, if I wanted to shoot to 400 I would most likely zero at 200 and figure out what my dead hold range is.  For that, put your drop chart together and figure out how much you are willing to miss by.  I usually use +-3" for an elk sized animal.  Given that, your range for dead hold will be some range, maybe 120 - 300 yards (just making numbers up).  Find the yardages that are no more than +3" or no less than -3".   For any range inside of that, just hold where you want to hit and press the trigger and you will not miss more than 3" from where you aim.

For ranges outside of that, I would figure out more about your reticle.  Usually, they will tell you how many MOA it is from the thin line until the thick part and then you translate that to yardage.  Maybe at a 200 yard zero that is 350 yards.  That will give you at least an idea and then you can split the differences and get pretty close.  You know that the thin section between the horizontal cross hair to the thick part of the vertical is 150 yards.  If you are shooting at 275, you would go roughly half way (200 zero plus half way = 275).  It isn't perfect as drop is not linear, but you are getting in the ballpark. (It's hard to describe without a picture, but hopefully you can follow.  Basically, find out the MOA drops for as many points on the vertical cross hair as you can.  On a standard reticle, there are at least three usable ones: where they cross, the upper transition from thin to think and the lower transition from thin to thick).

You aren't going to win any competitions, but it is better than just guessing or trying to hold x" high.  You will need to either be really good at judging distances or having a rangefinder.

A final option is to get a scope with either a reticle that has marks or to one where you can adjust the elevation and hold on what you want to hit.

Offline outdooraddict

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #394 on: March 25, 2019, 02:10:25 PM »
ok thanks stein, I am not looking to compete, I would like to get some steel and place it out to 3-400 yrds to just practice, I am more in confidence for hunting yardage that I possible will encounter.  where would I find the moa of my reticle?

Offline jasnt

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #395 on: March 25, 2019, 02:16:19 PM »
ok thanks stein, I am not looking to compete, I would like to get some steel and place it out to 3-400 yrds to just practice, I am more in confidence for hunting yardage that I possible will encounter.  where would I find the moa of my reticle?
which one does it have?
https://www.leupold.com/scopes/compact-scopes/vx-2-3-9x50mm?selectedSku=110804
243Round ht ct. 215
243 #2 78

300wm 691

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline outdooraddict

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #396 on: March 25, 2019, 02:16:24 PM »
what if went this route.  zero at 200, and then shoot a group  at the 200 yard target but hold the center of the target at the vertical transition of skinny line to fat line. measure that distance and then see where that lands on my chart.  so say I am zero at 200 where the lines cross, I hold center target with my verticle line skinny/fat transition and I shoot 4 inches high (just making up numbers) and my dope chart says -4" at 425 yrds.  can I assume that the hold over at 425 yrds is the vertical fat/skinny line transition?

Offline jasnt

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #397 on: March 25, 2019, 02:17:46 PM »
what if went this route.  zero at 200, and then shoot a group  at the 200 yard target but hold the center of the target at the vertical transition of skinny line to fat line. measure that distance and then see where that lands on my chart.  so say I am zero at 200 where the lines cross, I hold center target with my verticle line skinny/fat transition and I shoot 4 inches high (just making up numbers) and my dope chart says -4" at 425 yrds.  can I assume that the hold over at 425 yrds is the vertical fat/skinny line transition?
you will have to verify but yes that’s the idea
243Round ht ct. 215
243 #2 78

300wm 691

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline outdooraddict

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #398 on: March 25, 2019, 02:18:22 PM »
duplex reticle

Offline outdooraddict

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #399 on: March 25, 2019, 02:20:10 PM »
thanks for the help jasnt, and stein. I don't know why I made this seem so difficult in my brain, once I typed it out and thought about it, it all started to make sense.  is it easier to 200 zero or 100 zero, or does it even truly matter

Offline Stein

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #400 on: March 25, 2019, 02:47:34 PM »
thanks for the help jasnt, and stein. I don't know why I made this seem so difficult in my brain, once I typed it out and thought about it, it all started to make sense.  is it easier to 200 zero or 100 zero, or does it even truly matter

If you are looking at shooting out to 400, I would zero at 200 as you will most likely be taking a shot in that range and have less hold over.  If you are shooting 0-100 yards all the time, the 100 would make more sense.  For a 100 yard zero, the only difference is you will have to hold much higher for a 400 yard shot than if you were zeroed for 200. 

I would zero for 200 and know where I hit for 50,100, 150 and what the distance for the thick part of the reticle is.  That and some estimation (half, third) and you are about as good as you are going to get with a duplex reticle and no turret adjustment. 

I would also run the numbers off the drop chart to give me the +-3" band where I would just hold for the spot and shoot.  Outside of that band, I would estimate on how much to hold over.

Offline Crunchy

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #401 on: March 25, 2019, 02:56:18 PM »
Depending on your rifle, if you zero at 100 I would bet your drop will be at least 20 inches.  No other way to determine this other than go out and launch some lead at distance to learn your holdover. 

Offline Alchase

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #402 on: March 25, 2019, 06:58:57 PM »
This may help explain ranging with a duplex reticle
Only 2 defining forces sacrificed themselves for you:
The American Soldier and Jesus Christ. One died for your freedom, the other for your soul.

My rock,
He trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle.
Psalm 144.1

Offline jasnt

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #403 on: April 19, 2019, 04:56:05 PM »
Well the shim worked great. Got it rezeroed after plowing snow. Put the last 3 rounds in one hole. I now have enough dial for 1765-1790 depending on wind speed and direction. Time to bed the rail

 
little update on this.  I remounted the scope again one notch closer for better eye relief and zero is dead bottom. Now have 68 min of dial.  Very glad I shimmed the rail
243Round ht ct. 215
243 #2 78

300wm 691

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline jasnt

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #404 on: May 07, 2019, 10:11:20 AM »
As promised....... months ago :chuckle:

Not a valid vimeo URL
243Round ht ct. 215
243 #2 78

300wm 691

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

 


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