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Author Topic: Long range for beginners  (Read 46712 times)

Offline jasnt

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #270 on: August 02, 2018, 02:23:00 PM »
Typically air bubble levels require 3° to 5° to even register movement;

I think that might be more realistically 0.3° to 0.5° to register movement. I can detect smaller movements than that with most of the bubbles in my shop (including some cheap carpenters levels), as well as what's on my rifles.
thats a quote from accuracy firsts website.
First part was a quote from applied ballistics for long range shooting chapter 8 if I remember correctly.

This is why I brought up the anti cant device in the first place.  After reading that I started looking close at all my levels.  I’ve had levels from work (stabila) that over 90 air temp but working in the direct sun and the bubble is larger than the gap between the lines.  Makes it tough to level block. At 20f the bubbles in my torpedo level are tiny and hard to center. I don’t believe any of these anti cant levels are higher quality than the stabila or crick levels I use.  I shoot in all kinds of extreme weather and want something a little more consistent from zero to 100f.  If your happy with your anti cant great. 

Obviously I’m not alone with other options showing up on the market.
Hard to have total confidence in your gear when you’ve had the experiences I’ve had with levels. 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 02:38:20 PM by jasnt »
243Round ht ct. 215
243 #2 78

300wm 698

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #271 on: August 02, 2018, 02:25:53 PM »
Measured at 70 degrees temp.  Used iphone.  First used shooting angle in hornady app and it was adequate to show .5 degrees was realistic accuracy. Confirmed with air measure app.


Offline Yondering

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #272 on: August 02, 2018, 03:39:14 PM »
Typically air bubble levels require 3° to 5° to even register movement;

I think that might be more realistically 0.3° to 0.5° to register movement. I can detect smaller movements than that with most of the bubbles in my shop (including some cheap carpenters levels), as well as what's on my rifles.
thats a quote from accuracy firsts website.
First part was a quote from applied ballistics for long range shooting chapter 8 if I remember correctly.

This is why I brought up the anti cant device in the first place.  After reading that I started looking close at all my levels.  I’ve had levels from work (stabila) that over 90 air temp but working in the direct sun and the bubble is larger than the gap between the lines.  Makes it tough to level block. At 20f the bubbles in my torpedo level are tiny and hard to center. I don’t believe any of these anti cant levels are higher quality than the stabila or crick levels I use.  I shoot in all kinds of extreme weather and want something a little more consistent from zero to 100f.  If your happy with your anti cant great. 

Obviously I’m not alone with other options showing up on the market.
Hard to have total confidence in your gear when you’ve had the experiences I’ve had with levels.

If that is a direct quote, I'd bet it was misinterpreted somewhere down the line (not necessarily by you) or was a typo. If they really meant that most bubble levels are only accurate to within 3* from true level, sure, maybe I could believe that. Or if they meant that was maximum error across a wide range of temperatures, sure, maybe.

But as a claim that you can't tell a difference of 3* change in angle with a bubble level? That's pretty easy to disprove for anyone who understands how to use a bubble level. It's just not a reasonable claim to make.

Offline jasnt

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #273 on: August 02, 2018, 06:12:59 PM »
Typically air bubble levels require 3° to 5° to even register movement;

I think that might be more realistically 0.3° to 0.5° to register movement. I can detect smaller movements than that with most of the bubbles in my shop (including some cheap carpenters levels), as well as what's on my rifles.
thats a quote from accuracy firsts website.
First part was a quote from applied ballistics for long range shooting chapter 8 if I remember correctly.

This is why I brought up the anti cant device in the first place.  After reading that I started looking close at all my levels.  I’ve had levels from work (stabila) that over 90 air temp but working in the direct sun and the bubble is larger than the gap between the lines.  Makes it tough to level block. At 20f the bubbles in my torpedo level are tiny and hard to center. I don’t believe any of these anti cant levels are higher quality than the stabila or crick levels I use.  I shoot in all kinds of extreme weather and want something a little more consistent from zero to 100f.  If your happy with your anti cant great. 

Obviously I’m not alone with other options showing up on the market.
Hard to have total confidence in your gear when you’ve had the experiences I’ve had with levels.

If that is a direct quote, I'd bet it was misinterpreted somewhere down the line (not necessarily by you) or was a typo. If they really meant that most bubble levels are only accurate to within 3* from true level, sure, maybe I could believe that. Or if they meant that was maximum error across a wide range of temperatures, sure, maybe.

But as a claim that you can't tell a difference of 3* change in angle with a bubble level? That's pretty easy to disprove for anyone who understands how to use a bubble level. It's just not a reasonable claim to make.
direct quote

243Round ht ct. 215
243 #2 78

300wm 698

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #274 on: August 02, 2018, 06:18:07 PM »
That looks like a sales pitch to me. Anyone selling things is always going to downtalk the competition.

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #275 on: August 02, 2018, 06:23:43 PM »
That looks like a sales pitch to me. Anyone selling things is always going to downtalk the competition.
:yeah:  from the pitch sounds inferior.  Bubble registers movement to .2 or better.  1 degree would be poor.   .1 like my iphone would be nice.

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #276 on: August 02, 2018, 06:26:52 PM »
I've got a new never used, crappy box, Kestrel 5700 Applied Balisitics, Weather Meter for $575 shipped. Serious only. PayPal family. I'll send pictures if serious.



NO TRADES.........
I couldn't care less about what anybody says..............

Offline jasnt

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #277 on: August 02, 2018, 06:32:05 PM »
That looks like a sales pitch to me. Anyone selling things is always going to downtalk the competition.
:yeah:  from the pitch sounds inferior.  Bubble registers movement to .2 or better.  1 degree would be poor.   .1 like my iphone would be nice.
.1 would be nice. Maybe I’ll do some testing with my iPhone and anti cant levels.   Not sure how I missed that in your earlier posts.   
I dout I can read wind well enough for it to make much difference.  But when I miss I’d like to feel confident in the fact that it was my mistake and not just a disability of my gear.
243Round ht ct. 215
243 #2 78

300wm 698

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline jasnt

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #278 on: August 02, 2018, 07:19:04 PM »
Well testing my levels my lone star is .3-.5 and the Wheeler is a little worse .5-.7 area. I feel a bit better.  The wheeler while having a v notch the bubble is smaller than the lines at 67f in the house.  Took a fine sharpie and fixed that.   I feel better.  Thank you all for your input.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 07:54:15 PM by jasnt »
243Round ht ct. 215
243 #2 78

300wm 698

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline Yondering

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #279 on: August 02, 2018, 07:21:07 PM »
Yeah that's very much a sales pitch, and the claims are ridiculous.

Here is what a little less than 3* total looks like on this very short scope level. Longer levels give even better resolution.




And here is less than 0.5 degrees. Anyone competent enough to shoot a rifle at distance should be able to tell the difference (to be fair it's easier to see in person than in the pic).


Offline Biggerhammer

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #280 on: August 02, 2018, 07:45:23 PM »
Nice shooting BH.  What action you running and what speed is your load?

Rem700 action, barreled action was spun up by Benchmark. 30” barrel. Had two done. One sits unfired without a trigger in a FDE AICS “Ace” stock. Been sitting in the safe for 5 or so years. I would have to look at the folder for the rifle for velocity, hard to keep track of it all.

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #281 on: August 02, 2018, 08:22:36 PM »
I've got a new never used, crappy box, Kestrel 5700 Applied Balisitics, Weather Meter for $575 shipped. Serious only. PayPal family. I'll send pictures if serious.



NO TRADES.........
probably get more traffic in the classifieds

Offline jasnt

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #282 on: August 02, 2018, 08:26:35 PM »
Nice shooting BH.  What action you running and what speed is your load?

Rem700 action, barreled action was spun up by Benchmark. 30” barrel. Had two done. One sits unfired without a trigger in a FDE AICS “Ace” stock. Been sitting in the safe for 5 or so years. I would have to look at the folder for the rifle for velocity, hard to keep track of it all.
  :drool:
So many guns so little time.  One day I hope to have those troubles.
243Round ht ct. 215
243 #2 78

300wm 698

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline yorketransport

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #283 on: August 02, 2018, 08:29:16 PM »
I've got an Accuracy First level that was on my ATACR when I got it. It's nice, but I just ignore it. I probably have the worst shooting technique ever; I'm amazed that I ever hit anything. :chuckle:

Offline Biggerhammer

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Re: Long range for beginners
« Reply #284 on: August 02, 2018, 08:51:29 PM »
This is a great DVD 5 disc set from A-Z when it comes to the long game. Magpul are just the guests. The key is the instructor and long range shooting expert (Todd Hodnett). A man very well in the “KNOW” of long range precision shooting and I mean LOOOOOOOONG!

Trains the worlds best. When it comes to Military’s , Agency’s and no such agency’s. At the very end you will enjoy his barrel cleaning techniques from a high volume accurate, distance shooter.   

I have several sets of this DVD. I wouldn’t mind. Sending it to someone that would like to watch it and they could send it to the next person.


 


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