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Author Topic: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”  (Read 12401 times)

Offline Mr Mykiss

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2018, 06:16:44 PM »
I’m asking it we should have predators be our ONE THING? Sounds like it should and we should put all other concerns aside...like decimating the eastern Washington mule deer herd with 600 antlerless tags in the “Washtucna” unit...see there it is...if PREDATORS are our thing we need to stay focused on that ONE THING. Let’s do it.
It is hard to follow one great vision in a world of darkness and of many changing shadows. Among these shadows men get lost.
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Offline Tbar

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #91 on: April 24, 2018, 06:20:00 PM »
I’m asking it we should have predators be our ONE THING? Sounds like it should and we should put all other concerns aside...like decimating the eastern Washington mule deer herd with 600 antlerless tags in the “Washtucna” unit...see there it is...if PREDATORS are our thing we need to stay focused on that ONE THING. Let’s do it.
What's the justification for the tag increase? Guarantee its not objective related. 

Offline Mudman

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2018, 06:38:45 PM »
Judging by St helens herd management I wonder if all predators were gone would the surplus still exist after 15 years?  I wonder if they would properly manage surplus herds or a slaughter occur again?  Sometimes I wonder if we miss something like a looong term plan to decimate elk to manage hoof rot?
MAGA!  Again..

Offline jasnt

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #93 on: April 24, 2018, 06:54:14 PM »
I’m asking it we should have predators be our ONE THING? Sounds like it should and we should put all other concerns aside...like decimating the eastern Washington mule deer herd with 600 antlerless tags in the “Washtucna” unit...see there it is...if PREDATORS are our thing we need to stay focused on that ONE THING. Let’s do it.
thats not the point I'm trying to make.  But you can't help the deer population by continuing to kill deer, and Wdfw isn't going to do much with out a clear message that we want change.  Plenty of hunters only buy deer and elk tags. Imagine the message it would send is the amount of bear and cougar tags where like deer and elk and vice versa!  Don't stop fighting for mule deer and elk. But stop funding the problem. It's a lot to ask hunters to stop buying tags, and most won't stop. No matter the cause. I'm just saying take a break from deer and elk and maybe help them out by taking your fair share of bear, cougar, and coyote.
https://www.howlforwildlife.org/take_action  It takes 10 seconds and it’s free. To easy to make an excuse not to make your voice heard!!!!!!

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline CarbonHunter

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2018, 07:15:54 PM »
You could eliminate ever predator in the state but if there were no habitat there would still be no wildlife. You could increase the feed of the habitat but if the wildlife can’t get away from the predators the predator population would grow until they ate all the prey and eventually the predators will starve to death.

The fix will need to be a balanced approach of habitat improvements along with predator management.  My main concern is that there does not appear to be a well thought out management plan by our biologists or perhaps there methods of counting the herds is flawed?  For 2 years in a row they have made a drastic last minute deduction of permit numbers in the same area. This year we went into the rule making session looking at the possibility of elimination of the early cow hunts because the herd was below objective. Yet the WDFW did not propose a reduction of the bull tags saying that “bull hunts would remain”  :dunno:

Like I’ve said before, the WDFW is a state government organization and if they want to make changes to the rules they are supposed to allow for public comment. This was the excuse that Inslee used to overturn the WDFW rule change that increases the cougar quotas a couple years ago. . Isn’t it convenient when this rule only applies to the point of view of the liberal?

The fact is hunters are now only 5% of the population of Washington and a growing population does not support our hunting heritage. Every time we loose these hunting opportunities we rarely see them return and when the WDFW gets away with removing opportunities without public comment, when will our voices ever be hear?

That’s why I’m asking when should we consider all hope is lost of us getting the opportunities back. Even if the herds return, will the state let us hunt them?  This is why it is so important that we as hunts find a way to make sure our voices are heard.

Offline jasnt

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2018, 07:27:33 PM »
No where in the state are we above carrieing capacity. Habitat is not the issue
https://www.howlforwildlife.org/take_action  It takes 10 seconds and it’s free. To easy to make an excuse not to make your voice heard!!!!!!

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline CarbonHunter

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2018, 07:45:35 PM »
No where in the state are we above carrieing capacity. Habitat is not the issue

There is a lot of habitat issues in western wa and even in the cascades. Where logging has not occurred since the mid 90’s there is very pour habitat. Back in the 90’s it was common to see deer with 2-3 fawns and now we are lucky to see them with 1 in the West. With disease, pour habitat, urbanization, the liberals... the wolves are even reluctant to come to Western Washington.

The eastern 1/3 of our state still has good habitat and even with the excessive predator population the area is still capable of producing deer.

Offline bobcat

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2018, 07:49:09 PM »
I’m asking it we should have predators be our ONE THING? Sounds like it should and we should put all other concerns aside...like decimating the eastern Washington mule deer herd with 600 antlerless tags in the “Washtucna” unit...see there it is...if PREDATORS are our thing we need to stay focused on that ONE THING. Let’s do it.

You keep bringing up the 600 doe permits as if they're something new. The also eliminated 500 2nd deer permits from the same area, they just were smaller parts of the new Washtucna permit area. So it's not quite as bad as you make it sound. This area is predominantly private land, and I'm assuming the goal is to keep the deer numbers at a level that landowners (farmers/ranchers) will tolerate.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2018, 07:53:28 PM »
I've been making an effort, but WDFW makes it difficult with the early quota closuers. 



I've already apologized in advance for spoiling a few deer hunts this next season when I go out blowing on predator calls in prime deer areas;  I kept waiting until deer season was over but then that Jan1 comes quickly.

Offline Mr Mykiss

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #99 on: April 24, 2018, 07:55:28 PM »
Nope. I actually spoke to the regional bio. My bad on tying to make my point...if predators is the thing we’re going after, let’s go after it and not be distracted by things like doe permits and carrying capacity arguments.
Predators...let’s get em hunted...a lot.
It is hard to follow one great vision in a world of darkness and of many changing shadows. Among these shadows men get lost.
-Black Elk

Offline bobcat

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #100 on: April 24, 2018, 08:16:48 PM »
I think that's a great idea. I'm all for it. I'm thinking I could do all my big game hunting in Wyoming, fill my freezer, and in Washington hunt only predators, year around. Great idea really. Plenty of opportunity for coyote, bobcat, cougar, and bear. I could stay plenty busy without hunting deer and elk in Washington. I'd still have to take my kids deer and elk hunting here in Washington though.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #101 on: April 24, 2018, 08:22:34 PM »
 :yeah:

I'm starting in Sept now instead of waiting until first snows in November, our only chance at doing something with cats (despite WDFW) is blow through the quota's hard prior to Jan 1.

There's so many cats we don't really need the snow, yes it's a nice affirmation of when/where and how long ago...but with so many cats you're pretty safe to assume if it looks catty, one's around, regardless if you can find easy tracks in the snow.



Kill 1 Cougar and you've paid for your deer for life.  If I see two Cougars copulating I'm shooting the one on the bottom.  (yes I seen it  :chuckle:  )

Offline hunter399

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #102 on: April 24, 2018, 08:32:01 PM »
No where in the state are we above carrieing capacity. Habitat is not the issue

There is a lot of habitat issues in western wa and even in the cascades. Where logging has not occurred since the mid 90’s there is very pour habitat. Back in the 90’s it was common to see deer with 2-3 fawns and now we are lucky to see them with 1 in the West. With disease, pour habitat, urbanization, the liberals... the wolves are even reluctant to come to Western Washington.

The eastern 1/3 of our state still has good habitat and even with the excessive predator population the area is still capable of producing deer.

I can tell ya the eastern side of the state is not far behind the west side ,otc doe hunts for archery and muzzle loader,along with permits for modern,is gonna be a slaughterhouse of does this year.I'm all about doe permit for youth,disabled,65 and over,but after this year you will see negative impacts to northeast corner .After this the east side won't be capable if we keep going this direction.
I rather piss in the wind,then have piss down my back.

Offline jasnt

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #103 on: April 24, 2018, 08:41:23 PM »
:yeah:

I'm starting in Sept now instead of waiting until first snows in November, our only chance at doing something with cats (despite WDFW) is blow through the quota's hard prior to Jan 1.

There's so many cats we don't really need the snow, yes it's a nice affirmation of when/where and how long ago...but with so many cats you're pretty safe to assume if it looks catty, one's around, regardless if you can find easy tracks in the snow.



Kill 1 Cougar and you've paid for your deer for life.  If I see two Cougars copulating I'm shooting the one on the bottom.  (yes I seen it  :chuckle:  )
thats how I killed my first cougar lol
https://www.howlforwildlife.org/take_action  It takes 10 seconds and it’s free. To easy to make an excuse not to make your voice heard!!!!!!

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline jmscon

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Re: When should you consider “all hope is lost?”
« Reply #104 on: April 24, 2018, 09:44:45 PM »
No where in the state are we above carrieing capacity. Habitat is not the issue

There is a lot of habitat issues in western wa and even in the cascades. Where logging has not occurred since the mid 90’s there is very pour habitat. Back in the 90’s it was common to see deer with 2-3 fawns and now we are lucky to see them with 1 in the West. With disease, pour habitat, urbanization, the liberals... the wolves are even reluctant to come to Western Washington.

The eastern 1/3 of our state still has good habitat and even with the excessive predator population the area is still capable of producing deer.

Agree! I remember hiking in the 80’s and 90’s in areas that all the tree ages were the same and the canopy was so dense that the only thing that grew on the ground was moss. Nothing has been done to the National Forest land that I hiked on back then. The dense growth has made the trees susceptible to disease and bugs and is what is burning up throughout the cascades every year. At least the timber companies have kept logging. I have seen it that way in NE WA too but not as bad as the western slopes of the cascades.

Logging is cyclical as well. What was logged in the twenties-thirties-forties was logged in the sixties-seventies-eighties and is getting logged now, except on National Forest land.

What is going on with the wolves in the eastern 1/3 is BS. Emotionally driven instead of scientifically driven management. I think people like that whack job from WSU who used his emotional agenda as science should be drug through the coals!

I also think that if we got rid of all the predators we would have a disease ridden mess of game herds! The one thing we as hunters don’t do is target the sick and weak animals in the herds. We are apex predators but we selectively harvest healthy animals.
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