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Author Topic: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington  (Read 4131 times)

Offline Alan K

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2018, 10:17:37 PM »
Admittedly, no I wasn't around (as an adult anyway) in the 80's so I can't speak to historical grouse numbers with first hand knowledge.  On national parks and grouse. . . I assume you're talking about grouse numbers being higher there, but I'd say that's because of a lack of hunting.  If you're trying to say that the areas that lack spraying have higher grouse numbers, a more appropriate comparison would be NF land where there is hunting.  In the Gifford Pinchot I don't see grouse numbers nearly as high as I do in Vail. Maybe with the free for all access they're over hunted? That's my only real exposure to areas free of herbicides though. :dunno:

Read the 3rd paragraph of my last post.  Nowhere have I said that any of the chemicals are 'good'.  Quite the opposite. ALL CHEMICALS ARE DANGEROUS AT A HIGH ENOUGH EXPOSURE LEVEL.  When used according to the labels and the application rates, buffers from water etc. set by the scientists, yes, I do believe they are safe. 

All governments have different comfort levels with chemicals.  The fact that other countries have banned Atrizine while the US hasn't does make me raise an eyebrow and wonder why, but doesn't have me crying foul that someone is bought off. If those countries have some science that shows that use cannot control exposure level at an acceptable level I'm sure our governing agencies will review that and make the appropriate decision come re-certification time. I would think that there are other chemicals that are banned in the US but allowed abroad too.  It boils down to individual countries' comfort levels with being able to control exposure levels.

It's clear we're not going to see eye to eye on this. Let's just push for studying the hell out of the issue from all angles and see what's found.  In the mean time I'll believe my theory, and you can believe yours, but let's not peddle either as fact until there are some.  :tup:

« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 10:25:22 PM by Alan K »

Offline Bucks2Ducks

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2018, 07:17:15 AM »
It's clear we're not going to see eye to eye on this. Let's just push for studying the hell out of the issue from all angles and see what's found.  In the mean time I'll believe my theory, and you can believe yours, but let's not peddle either as fact until there are some.  :tup:
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Offline Duckhunter14

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2018, 08:22:59 AM »
I spoke to a guy two days ago that swears he saw an elk in ID with hoof rot.

My buddies and I glassed up a bull two years ago in the Colockum with an awful limp and upon closer inspection he had elongated hooves on the leg that he was favoring. I called it in and the Bio said that its common for the hooves on an injured leg to grow longer when an elk is not using them (not wearing them down). But just because they are limping and have elongated hooves does not mean they have hoof rot. He assured me it must have just been an injury.

Maybe that's what happened here? Who knows. I'm sure there is someone out there wearing a tinfoil hat that can prove otherwise....
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Offline birddogdad

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2018, 08:18:24 AM »
spoke with WDFW on this mass kill planned in Trout Lake. There is one specific herd they are targeting south of town that pretty much lives in the private farm land areas. If you know where the Farmer who kept a few Bison along 141 you know the area they live and may have seen them frequently (as I have). Going to have harvest support to sample all animals for research from what I was told. Sad it is coming to this. This herd really doesn't travel around much very much a local group. Side hills over the farm lands only. Hopefully they will contain this outbreak but maybe focus in on how they got it in the first place as they don't go anywhere!
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2018, 08:26:26 AM »
There have been elk in Indian Heaven area reported with hoof disease. I saw a limping hoof-diseased elk north of Swift reservoir on FR 25. They travel sometimes. Regardless if a herd is "local", there's always opportunity for outside elk to join them.
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Offline birddogdad

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2018, 09:53:06 AM »
Piano, I get that, this is also close to the Preserve in Glenwood as well, animals wander but to simply eradicate is something interesting to consider. The article discussed "up to 20" taken, but was not clear on intent toward all in group with any having rot or just rot animals. That herd is about 20 strong give or take.. Where will it end? what if this works? will they simply go this route across western wa? lots of potential negative implications to this measure...
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2018, 09:55:05 AM »
Piano, I get that, this is also close to the Preserve in Glenwood as well, animals wander but to simply eradicate is something interesting to consider. The article discussed "up to 20" taken, but was not clear on intent toward all in group with any having rot or just rot animals. That herd is about 20 strong give or take.. Where will it end? what if this works? will they simply go this route across western wa? lots of potential negative implications to this measure...

I have no idea if there's any way to measure "if this works" or what WSU and the WDFW have for future eradication plans.
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Offline BUTTER

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2018, 04:56:22 AM »
Herd is alot bigger than 20. A good hundred head in the group.

Offline birddogdad

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2018, 07:55:01 AM »
Herd is alot bigger than 20. A good hundred head in the group.

several groups mingle in winter down in the valley... not sure how effective this will even be....they even wander back to the preserve where others live... kind of a slippery slope to simply "choot em" as a solution to issues...
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Offline W_Ellison2011

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2018, 09:18:26 PM »
Are ya kidding?  Grouse took huge drop since the eighties.  Were you around then?  Hmm.  Nat Parks with no spraying have healthy elk, and grouse. WDFW cant even name it Trep but call it something else instead.  Lepto?  Not what independent science claims.  Why?  Why are these chems banned in most the civilized world but not here?  $ lobby?  U fooling yourself by ignoring basic facts.  Did you read the CDC report on Atrazine?  You should.  The other chems aren't good either.  Research em.  Atrazine, 2,4-D, Glyphosate, hexazinope, 4L, Crosshair, Transline, velpar DF.  I don't even know what some are, its an endless list.
I'm just going to say... I hunt unit 513 usually and last year I bought a kapowsin permit... I saw a TON of grouse in Kapowsin compared to 513... My buddy and I limited every day we hunted in the kapowsin area owned by hancock.. In my usual unit 513 we see some grouse but very few. We also rarely see elk in the 513 unit. I saw probably 30-50 head of elk a day in kapowsin and NONE of them had hoof rot. If you can't find grouse, aka road chickens, then you are doing something wrong man. I mean we couldn't go around a corner without finding a flock of blue's last year! I don't believe that this hoof rot is coming from what the timber companies are spraying. Its like a guy said that we should check the livers of deer we shoot in Kapowsin. I took my heart and liver home from my deer. The heart... had a hole in it from my arrow and the liver was perfect. I feel like there is a big stigma placed on the timber companies because people are upset that they have to pay to play in those areas. I'm sorry.. but those are the facts that I have seen.

Offline BlackBellyHumpBack

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2018, 12:19:57 PM »
I think maybe they should look closer at the livestock side of things.  I think the rise in hoof rot correlates with the rise in the “organic “ movement.  Changing the normal meds livestock get may make city people want to buy more and may even seem better for the livestock in some instances. But it changes how they affect the wild animals they live around. Even if there hasn’t been an uptick in hoof rot in livestock it doesn’t mean how much of bad stuff they carry around hasn’t changed.  I think they should at least look close at that side of it.

Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2018, 12:25:30 PM »
I think maybe they should look closer at the livestock side of things.  I think the rise in hoof rot correlates with the rise in the “organic “ movement.  Changing the normal meds livestock get may make city people want to buy more and may even seem better for the livestock in some instances. But it changes how they affect the wild animals they live around. Even if there hasn’t been an uptick in hoof rot in livestock it doesn’t mean how much of bad stuff they carry around hasn’t changed.  I think they should at least look close at that side of it.

Rural farms have been raising organic as in no meds given to thier livestock for years prior to it becoming a fad.😉

I have never given shots to my beef.
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Offline W_Ellison2011

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2018, 05:37:47 PM »
I think maybe they should look closer at the livestock side of things.  I think the rise in hoof rot correlates with the rise in the “organic “ movement.  Changing the normal meds livestock get may make city people want to buy more and may even seem better for the livestock in some instances. But it changes how they affect the wild animals they live around. Even if there hasn’t been an uptick in hoof rot in livestock it doesn’t mean how much of bad stuff they carry around hasn’t changed.  I think they should at least look close at that side of it.

Rural farms have been raising organic as in no meds given to thier livestock for years prior to it becoming a fad.😉

I have never given shots to my beef.
Growing up out in Roy we never gave our beef any shots and that was back in late 80's early 90's. Same with everybody in the area that we knew and were raising beef. Pigs get a shot every now and then if one develops a cough or something but that's just penicillin and nothing else. I really am stumped by what could be causing the hoof rot but I don't believe its the farms or the lumber companies. I have a herd of elk I've been chasing for a couple years now and they are always moving onto a beef farm pasture and then out into the woods and they don't have hoof rot. Neither do the elk I've watched in the Kapowsin area owned by Hancock. It is 100% baffling on where this disease comes from and how it got here to begin with!

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2018, 05:48:02 PM »
beef producers don't want hoof rot, any large producer that feed lots their beef (the most likely to have hoof rot) is going to inoculate them for it.  They can't sell downers as there's laws about slaughter facilities and auction houses accepting downer cattle.   

Anyone raising beef non gmo, grass fed, doesn't need to inoculate them because they aren't standing belly deep in feces 24/7. 


Elk aren't getting hoof rot from cattle producers, large or small.


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Re: Hoof Rot Confirmed by WDFW in Eastern Washington
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2018, 06:01:53 PM »
beef producers don't want hoof rot, any large producer that feed lots their beef (the most likely to have hoof rot) is going to inoculate them for it.  They can't sell downers as there's laws about slaughter facilities and auction houses accepting downer cattle.   

Anyone raising beef non gmo, grass fed, doesn't need to inoculate them because they aren't standing belly deep in feces 24/7. 


Elk aren't getting hoof rot from cattle producers, large or small.
100% agree. I also don't believe its from the lumber companies. As I have stated previously, Hancock's Kapowsin area has a TON of FAT and Healthy elk. We saw anywhere from 50-150 head a day and NONE had any signs of limping or weird looking hooves. So with that information. How do we figure this out?

 

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