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Author Topic: The pressure of having high point count for special permits-going for it  (Read 1809 times)

Offline Westside88

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I hear a lot of talk about why someone is going to apply points only and plans to draw when they have 20 etc. I'll admit I struggle with it too, should I apply for Quality Elk Eastside or West? Do you choose the most popular area where you've seen people get Big Bulls, but you've never been there, it's 5 hours away and you really don't have a plan. I read an article recently in Eastman's where Guy Eastman referenced " point paralysis" Trying to wait for the perfect time and simply acquiring more points, along with everyone else who applies. This year I decided to go for it in a Westside unit (in the Olympics) I know well. Is it perfect? nope, but no unit really is. I'm well above the average to draw, but nothing's a gimme. If I'm fortunate enough to draw, I'll be hitting it hard and trying to kill the big Rosie I dreamed of when I first hunted this unit as a teenager. Good luck to everyone in the draws. Here's to steep ground, big timber and Big Bulls  :brew:

Offline Bob33

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I think of them as Quality hunts for elk, not hunts for Quality elk.

Good luck on the draw. :tup:
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Offline Westside88

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Good way of looking at it

Offline Mr Mykiss

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Well you’re lucky because in Washington even if you have 20 points it’s likely that 90% of the time you won’t draw. Just sayin.

Offline JWEBB

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I hear a lot of talk about why someone is going to apply points only and plans to draw when they have 20 etc. I'll admit I struggle with it too, should I apply for Quality Elk Eastside or West? Do you choose the most popular area where you've seen people get Big Bulls, but you've never been there, it's 5 hours away and you really don't have a plan. I read an article recently in Eastman's where Guy Eastman referenced " point paralysis" Trying to wait for the perfect time and simply acquiring more points, along with everyone else who applies. This year I decided to go for it in a Westside unit (in the Olympics) I know well. Is it perfect? nope, but no unit really is. I'm well above the average to draw, but nothing's a gimme. If I'm fortunate enough to draw, I'll be hitting it hard and trying to kill the big Rosie I dreamed of when I first hunted this unit as a teenager. Good luck to everyone in the draws. Here's to steep ground, big timber and Big Bulls  :brew:

Good luck and I hope you draw! How many points going in?
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Online JimmyHoffa

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I think of them as Quality hunts for elk, not hunts for Quality elk.

Good luck on the draw. :tup:
I kind of think of them as the reverse.  The hot weather and bugs are offset by the different bull potential.

Offline Westside88

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I hear a lot of talk about why someone is going to apply points only and plans to draw when they have 20 etc. I'll admit I struggle with it too, should I apply for Quality Elk Eastside or West? Do you choose the most popular area where you've seen people get Big Bulls, but you've never been there, it's 5 hours away and you really don't have a plan. I read an article recently in Eastman's where Guy Eastman referenced " point paralysis" Trying to wait for the perfect time and simply acquiring more points, along with everyone else who applies. This year I decided to go for it in a Westside unit (in the Olympics) I know well. Is it perfect? nope, but no unit really is. I'm well above the average to draw, but nothing's a gimme. If I'm fortunate enough to draw, I'll be hitting it hard and trying to kill the big Rosie I dreamed of when I first hunted this unit as a teenager. Good luck to everyone in the draws. Here's to steep ground, big timber and Big Bulls  :brew:

Good luck and I hope you draw! How many points going in?

I’ll have 19 in this draw, like I said there are no gimmes, but I feel good about the unit I’ve chosen. You start getting up in the 18+ range it’s easy to get hung up on only using your points on one of the highest demand units, but the odds are still better of never drawing them

Offline JWEBB

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Wow you have been patiently waiting! Yep definitely not a for sure thing but you have a lot better odds than most. Wishing you luck
Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

Offline pd

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I think of them as Quality hunts for elk, not hunts for Quality elk.

That is one of the best comments I have ever heard on this web forum.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Offline jdb

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Offline Westside88

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I think of them as Quality hunts for elk, not hunts for Quality elk.

That is one of the best comments I have ever heard on this web forum.

I agree, the more I think about I the more solid I feel about trying to draw sooner rather than later. My Dad drew a similar tag in adjoining unit 12 years ago and the experience of basically having the unit to ourselves was amazing. There were 3 of us there in support, with others contributing pre season and throughout the week. When he took a bull on Day 8 of a 10 day tag ( 5 days now) it wasn’t the biggest one we’d seen or tried for, but certainly the most meaningful, because of all the good hunting leading up to it. Thanks for the comments guys, and good luck to you!

Offline trophyhunt

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You have the right idea, just put in for an area you know and go hunt.  At least if you don't draw you can still hunt 3 point or better instead of spikes.  I know what your going through, I'm sitting at 23 points this year and I've been putting in for hunts 99% of the time.  Only ghost pointed a couple times, this year is one of them.  Good luck in the draw.
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Offline Timberstalker

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You have the right idea, just put in for an area you know and go hunt.  At least if you don't draw you can still hunt 3 point or better instead of spikes.  I know what your going through, I'm sitting at 23 points this year and I've been putting in for hunts 99% of the time.  Only ghost pointed a couple times, this year is one of them.  Good luck in the draw.

One less high point competitor for me! :chuckle:
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Offline trophyhunt

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You have the right idea, just put in for an area you know and go hunt.  At least if you don't draw you can still hunt 3 point or better instead of spikes.  I know what your going through, I'm sitting at 23 points this year and I've been putting in for hunts 99% of the time.  Only ghost pointed a couple times, this year is one of them.  Good luck in the draw.

One less high point competitor for me! :chuckle:
You better draw this year, I'm done with wyoming so all in after this year!!   :chuckle:
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Offline Karl Blanchard

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The underlying issue is the perceived value of said points.  While a person has invested a lot of time, there's very little monetary value associated with said points and even less value as far as increasing draw odds. Points just don't mean that much in this state. Im Sitting on Max deer points with never once applying for points only option.  Even at that I realize that when or if I finally draw, the caliber of animal is less than an otc Idaho tag or 0 point CO unit that I hunt every year. 

I think you absolutely have the right idea by just trying to draw a tag. You only get so many September's in this life.  Don't waste them shooting for the stars.  When you are laying on your deathbed years from now I guarantee you won't be thinking to yourself "man I wish I had hunted less."
It is foolish and wrong to mourn these men.  Rather, we should thank god that such men lived.  -General George S. Patton

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Offline Timberstalker

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The underlying issue is the perceived value of said points.  While a person has invested a lot of time, there's very little monetary value associated with said points and even less value as far as increasing draw odds. Points just don't mean that much in this state. Im Sitting on Max deer points with never once applying for points only option.  Even at that I realize that when or if I finally draw, the caliber of animal is less than an otc Idaho tag or 0 point CO unit that I hunt every year. 

I think you absolutely have the right idea by just trying to draw a tag. You only get so many September's in this life.  Don't waste them shooting for the stars.  When you are laying on your deathbed years from now I guarantee you won't be thinking to yourself "man I wish I had hunted less."

Well said.
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Online grundy53

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The underlying issue is the perceived value of said points.  While a person has invested a lot of time, there's very little monetary value associated with said points and even less value as far as increasing draw odds. Points just don't mean that much in this state. Im Sitting on Max deer points with never once applying for points only option.  Even at that I realize that when or if I finally draw, the caliber of animal is less than an otc Idaho tag or 0 point CO unit that I hunt every year. 

I think you absolutely have the right idea by just trying to draw a tag. You only get so many September's in this life.  Don't waste them shooting for the stars.  When you are laying on your deathbed years from now I guarantee you won't be thinking to yourself "man I wish I had hunted less."

Well said.
Agreed

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Offline Ridgerunner

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Not to mention you never know what life will throw at you, I say you did the right thing, try to draw the tags you want to hunt, don't chase units or places where the biggest have been killed, draw the units you like and enjoy the experience.

Online vandeman17

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The underlying issue is the perceived value of said points.  While a person has invested a lot of time, there's very little monetary value associated with said points and even less value as far as increasing draw odds. Points just don't mean that much in this state. Im Sitting on Max deer points with never once applying for points only option.  Even at that I realize that when or if I finally draw, the caliber of animal is less than an otc Idaho tag or 0 point CO unit that I hunt every year. 

I think you absolutely have the right idea by just trying to draw a tag. You only get so many September's in this life.  Don't waste them shooting for the stars.  When you are laying on your deathbed years from now I guarantee you won't be thinking to yourself "man I wish I had hunted less."

This here is why I am phasing out of the points game and most washington big game in general. I cashed out my quality elk last year and didn't apply this year. I will still continue to try for the quality deer permit I want but am not disappointed when I don't draw because I have montana deer hunts already planned that are just as good over the counter as most quality hunts here. When I do finally draw, it will be a complete surprise, I will hunt the heck out of the tag then cease applying for deer as well.

It is more money to hunt out of state but worth it to me because hunting is one of my passions and you never know what life can throw at you and when it will be your last hoorah. Might as well make the most out of every fall you have.  :twocents:
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

Offline Jonathan_S

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I think the point paralysis comes in a preference point system not a bonus point system.

Wouldn't lose sleep over it.  Apply for what turns you on and hunt the general seasons in the meantime.
“Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.”

Offline Karl Blanchard

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The underlying issue is the perceived value of said points.  While a person has invested a lot of time, there's very little monetary value associated with said points and even less value as far as increasing draw odds. Points just don't mean that much in this state. Im Sitting on Max deer points with never once applying for points only option.  Even at that I realize that when or if I finally draw, the caliber of animal is less than an otc Idaho tag or 0 point CO unit that I hunt every year. 

I think you absolutely have the right idea by just trying to draw a tag. You only get so many September's in this life.  Don't waste them shooting for the stars.  When you are laying on your deathbed years from now I guarantee you won't be thinking to yourself "man I wish I had hunted less."

This here is why I am phasing out of the points game and most washington big game in general. I cashed out my quality elk last year and didn't apply this year. I will still continue to try for the quality deer permit I want but am not disappointed when I don't draw because I have montana deer hunts already planned that are just as good over the counter as most quality hunts here. When I do finally draw, it will be a complete surprise, I will hunt the heck out of the tag then cease applying for deer as well.

It is more money to hunt out of state but worth it to me because hunting is one of my passions and you never know what life can throw at you and when it will be your last hoorah. Might as well make the most out of every fall you have.  :twocents:
  I disagree with this and not what I meant.  What I meant was take Washington for what it is.  It's cheap as hell to apply here as a resident so why would you not use the added opportunity to possibly draw.  Just don't get roped into the idea that your points will give you any significant advantage over the guy with 1 point. If you luck out and draw a permit it is almost always going to be a fun time.   There's always a weekend or two somewhere that you can fit in a hunt as a resident so picking up a deer/elk combo, a few permits and tossing darts at the board is most certainly worth it. Just my  :twocents:
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Offline BULLBLASTER

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The underlying issue is the perceived value of said points.  While a person has invested a lot of time, there's very little monetary value associated with said points and even less value as far as increasing draw odds. Points just don't mean that much in this state. Im Sitting on Max deer points with never once applying for points only option.  Even at that I realize that when or if I finally draw, the caliber of animal is less than an otc Idaho tag or 0 point CO unit that I hunt every year. 

I think you absolutely have the right idea by just trying to draw a tag. You only get so many September's in this life.  Don't waste them shooting for the stars.  When you are laying on your deathbed years from now I guarantee you won't be thinking to yourself "man I wish I had hunted less."

This here is why I am phasing out of the points game and most washington big game in general. I cashed out my quality elk last year and didn't apply this year. I will still continue to try for the quality deer permit I want but am not disappointed when I don't draw because I have montana deer hunts already planned that are just as good over the counter as most quality hunts here. When I do finally draw, it will be a complete surprise, I will hunt the heck out of the tag then cease applying for deer as well.

It is more money to hunt out of state but worth it to me because hunting is one of my passions and you never know what life can throw at you and when it will be your last hoorah. Might as well make the most out of every fall you have.  :twocents:
Your last point is exactly why I apply for everywhere that I can each year. You never know what life is going to throw you, so take every opportunity possible.  :twocents:

Online vandeman17

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The underlying issue is the perceived value of said points.  While a person has invested a lot of time, there's very little monetary value associated with said points and even less value as far as increasing draw odds. Points just don't mean that much in this state. Im Sitting on Max deer points with never once applying for points only option.  Even at that I realize that when or if I finally draw, the caliber of animal is less than an otc Idaho tag or 0 point CO unit that I hunt every year. 

I think you absolutely have the right idea by just trying to draw a tag. You only get so many September's in this life.  Don't waste them shooting for the stars.  When you are laying on your deathbed years from now I guarantee you won't be thinking to yourself "man I wish I had hunted less."

This here is why I am phasing out of the points game and most washington big game in general. I cashed out my quality elk last year and didn't apply this year. I will still continue to try for the quality deer permit I want but am not disappointed when I don't draw because I have montana deer hunts already planned that are just as good over the counter as most quality hunts here. When I do finally draw, it will be a complete surprise, I will hunt the heck out of the tag then cease applying for deer as well.

It is more money to hunt out of state but worth it to me because hunting is one of my passions and you never know what life can throw at you and when it will be your last hoorah. Might as well make the most out of every fall you have.  :twocents:
  I disagree with this and not what I meant.  What I meant was take Washington for what it is.  It's cheap as hell to apply here as a resident so why would you not use the added opportunity to possibly draw.  Just don't get roped into the idea that your points will give you any significant advantage over the guy with 1 point. If you luck out and draw a permit it is almost always going to be a fun time.   There's always a weekend or two somewhere that you can fit in a hunt as a resident so picking up a deer/elk combo, a few permits and tossing darts at the board is most certainly worth it. Just my  :twocents:

I wasn't implying it was what you meant. I was giving my viewpoint piggybacking off what you said.  :twocents:
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

Offline Bob33

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Applicants with more points have better odds than applicants with fewer points.

However, once you get past around six or seven points odds tend to flatten out and increase very slightly over lower point totals.

Going from one point to two points is a big step since you go from having one name in the hat to four: a fourfold increase in one year.  Going from 7 points to 10 points only doubles the number of “names in the hat” over three years.

Here’s a graph of actual “1 in” odds of drawing a quality elk permit in 2017. With one point odds were 1 in 258. With ten points they were 1 in 18. With 20 points they were 1 in 5.
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Offline Karl Blanchard

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Only certainty with Washington draws is you are 100% guaranteed not to draw if you don't apply
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Offline Johnny Doe

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The underlying issue is the perceived value of said points.  While a person has invested a lot of time, there's very little monetary value associated with said points and even less value as far as increasing draw odds. Points just don't mean that much in this state. Im Sitting on Max deer points with never once applying for points only option.  Even at that I realize that when or if I finally draw, the caliber of animal is less than an otc Idaho tag or 0 point CO unit that I hunt every year. 

I think you absolutely have the right idea by just trying to draw a tag. You only get so many September's in this life.  Don't waste them shooting for the stars.  When you are laying on your deathbed years from now I guarantee you won't be thinking to yourself "man I wish I had hunted less."

 :yeah: Nailed it!
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Offline blackveltbowhunter

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IMO your spot on to invest in a unit you know well, regardless of points invested.  I tend to think an often overlooked downside to points in general is they can give a false impression of the potential of the unit for those who haven't done a lot of research. Even those who do extensive research are still prone to surprises, as boots on the ground scouting is often limited or non existent for many of the applicant in the units they are applying in. "Hard to draw" doesn't always equal "big bulls easy to hunt."   

Offline jackelope

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Only certainty with Washington draws is you are 100% guaranteed not to draw if you don't apply

Boom. You nailed it again.

As much as I cringe at the potential repercussions of saying this...I'm a great example of the opposite end of this conversation, and there are a lot of others who have been relatively successful in the draws like I have. I have drawn a quality deer tag with 4 points, a buck deer permit with 6 points and a goat tag with 9 points. This is the first year I'll have double digit points in any category.
I'm feeling good about drawing another buck deer tag this year, we'll see. I don't apply for the top end hunts that a lot of others do, but I've had nothing but amazing experiences with those hunts that I have drawn so far.
:dunno:
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Online Stein

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I don't have a bunch of points, but don't really feel any pressure.  I agree that even with good hunt draws in WA, you can get as good if not better OTC hunts in other states.

For $13, I'll take a swing at elk, but I think this is my last year for deer and I'm on the fence for OIL draws.  I looked at the math and for what I spent this year in tags and special draw permits, I could hunt antelope in WY every other year.  I don't really enjoy OTC hunting in WA, seems like I can't get a decent hunt in as there are just too many people and too short of a season.  I am in a somewhat unique position in that I can hunt deer and elk every year in MT for 1/2 price, so it's just worth the 4-5 extra hours compared with eastern WA.

With a limited budget as the kids grow, I think I am better off spending the $250 in deer/elk/permit applications in WA for other states and have MT as my guaranteed elk & deer hunt.

Offline trophyhunt

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The pressure comes when you draw that once in a lifetime tag!!
“In common with”..... not so much!!

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Only certainty with Washington draws is you are 100% guaranteed not to draw if you don't apply

Boom. You nailed it again.

As much as I cringe at the potential repercussions of saying this...I'm a great example of the opposite end of this conversation, and there are a lot of others who have been relatively successful in the draws like I have. I have drawn a quality deer tag with 4 points, a buck deer permit with 6 points and a goat tag with 9 points. This is the first year I'll have double digit points in any category.
I'm feeling good about drawing another buck deer tag this year, we'll see. I don't apply for the top end hunts that a lot of others do, but I've had nothing but amazing experiences with those hunts that I have drawn so far.
:dunno:

I hate you...  :bash: :bash:



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Offline benhuntin

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The pressure comes when you draw that once in a lifetime tag!!
I would like that pressure.


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Offline Greg Mullins

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20 pts here. I gave up on the illusion a few years ago but now I have so many I just can’t stop buying them every year. Last year I drew a archery White River tag but wait FIRE ended that before it began. I say everyone has a dream area so go for it, if you pull it out of your a** Awesome if you don’t maybe next year..  But you never will if you don’t try.  Good luck to all

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  • Posts: 105
  • Location: North Spokane
I have 15 points in all categories.. never been drawn for anything. Would love to stop putting in, but at the point where it would be stupid not too. Good luck to all.

Offline Tbar

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1722
  • Location: Whatcom county
  • That Boy Ain't Right
The pressure hits when you draw, or even worse (pressure)  when a friend or family member draws.  Expectations are high and you don't want to let them down.  I've experienced both highs and lows of friends and family draws the last few years. 

Offline Pathfinder101

  • The Chosen YAR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 9800
  • Location: Southeast WA
  • Semper Primus
I hear a lot of talk about why someone is going to apply points only and plans to draw when they have 20 etc. I'll admit I struggle with it too, should I apply for Quality Elk Eastside or West? Do you choose the most popular area where you've seen people get Big Bulls, but you've never been there, it's 5 hours away and you really don't have a plan. I read an article recently in Eastman's where Guy Eastman referenced " point paralysis" Trying to wait for the perfect time and simply acquiring more points, along with everyone else who applies. This year I decided to go for it in a Westside unit (in the Olympics) I know well. Is it perfect? nope, but no unit really is. I'm well above the average to draw, but nothing's a gimme. If I'm fortunate enough to draw, I'll be hitting it hard and trying to kill the big Rosie I dreamed of when I first hunted this unit as a teenager. Good luck to everyone in the draws. Here's to steep ground, big timber and Big Bulls  :brew:

Good luck and I hope you draw! How many points going in?

I’ll have 19 in this draw, like I said there are no gimmes, but I feel good about the unit I’ve chosen. You start getting up in the 18+ range it’s easy to get hung up on only using your points on one of the highest demand units, but the odds are still better of never drawing them

I think that is my problem too.  As I gain more points (16 now), it makes me not want to "burn them" on a mid-quality hunt.  However, my odds of drawing go down when I put in for those rock-star units/dates...

...Oh well... someone's gonna draw them.... :dunno:
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.  That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

 

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