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Author Topic: Anti baiting group for ID  (Read 4028 times)

Offline huntnnw

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2019, 06:29:46 AM »
CDA is also getting bad.. walking around downtown looks like seattle

Offline rasbo

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2019, 06:31:54 AM »
It is easy to miss a piece of trash in a bait. So for a lazy no good, it would be easy to have a mess. Once in a while Iíd show up to rebait and find a wrapper, man it makes you feel so bad. And  litterly find myself looking to see if anyone is watching, cause itís  embarrassing.  I agree, Iíve seen some poor maintained baits.
plastic bags everywhere, then the bears scatter them. I used garbage bags inside my pack and just dumped the bait.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2019, 07:39:20 PM »
Thanks for keeping us updated on this mathews  :tup: I havenít seen anything in our local paper or anywhere else. Thanks again

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2019, 10:01:04 PM »
Thanks for the insight!  :tup:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw) for spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered.

Offline n_mathews13

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2019, 02:02:02 PM »
Now we wait

Offline Machias

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2019, 09:03:02 AM »
Got my baiting site tags on Friday!
Fred Moyer


History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

Offline n_mathews13

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2019, 12:29:58 PM »
Emailed today :,


ďYesterday the Western Watersheds, Wilderness Watch, and Wild Earth Guardians filled a federal suit against the US Forest Service and USFWS. The groups say the government has violated the Endangered Species Act and the National Environmental Policy Act by allowing incidental kills of grizzlies by black bear hunters using bait. The suit seeks to force the Forest Service to stop allowing black bear baiting in areas of national forests in Wyoming and Idaho where grizzly bears may be.

I had hoped it wouldn't come to this, We will be actively monitoring this and reaching out to those who can help us fight it!Ē

https://www.courthousenews.com/feds-sued-to-stop-use-of-bear-bait-by-hunters-in-idaho-and-wyoming/ 

Offline Special T

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2019, 01:08:25 PM »
Anti Trapping and Anti baiting measures are how they hamstrung Washington. If they succeed in this endeavor it will wreck ID & WY.

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2019, 01:43:53 PM »
WY will certainly fight it, ID probably, WA rolled over and asked them what else they could do to help.

Offline Machias

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2019, 01:53:35 PM »
 :yeah:
Fred Moyer


History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

Offline n_mathews13

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2019, 04:26:34 PM »
I should have baited this year

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2019, 04:45:49 PM »
I should have baited this year


Its not too late  :chuckle: Might have some bald spots though!

Offline n_mathews13

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2019, 01:45:44 AM »
We have been working with Brian and Idaho Wildlife Federation on how to proceed on this bear bait ban.  This is what we have come up with so far. The USFS is still deciding on what level to handle this (local, regional, national). We also get a strong feeling that both Idaho and Wyoming will fight this as possibly an intervenor to the USFWS and USFS. 

Brian Recentl chatted with IWF lawyer (president of IWF) this morning and a few things came out of this:

1. Anyone can act as intervenor for the USFWS and USFS. As in, WBF could hire a lawyer to side against the enviros, but it will cost money. Possibly a lot. Our president offered his services at a discount but everyone needs to eat so it wont be free. We need to talk to IDFG Deputy Director Kathleen Trevors to see what this would look like from a cost/time perspective. Is it a good idea?

2. A petition means nothing in court. We could get people to sign one and it will have no impact on the outcome. However, it is an opportunity for WBF to collect data (emails and other contact info) from folks who care about this issue. You could use this list to keep more people involved/engaged over targeted email, as well as grow your network/membership for issues like this over time. IWF can provide you the software to collect that if you'd like. We can set it all up on the backend. Just know it will not be an effort to move the case in one direction, but instead to keep up to date on this and other bear issues.

3. Amicus Brief: IWF is drafting one and it is a big pain in the ass to figure out legal jargon. I say that only to let you know we are working on it and it may take a few days to get the format and syntax correct. We have paid staff so this falls on us and we're happy to do it. We believe at the moment multiple groups can sign on to one. If not, we can provide you a copy for your group to sign on to. I am shooting for getting this done by Thursday.

4. Publicizing information on this: Guys, we are living in a changing world. Getting combative with these a-holes is what they want. And they know it is a losing battle for us in the court of public opinion. That is why I stress, strongly, we disengage from the crazies and argue the defensible aspects of baiting, the defensible aspects of the North American model, the irresponsibility of allowing game to be managed by legislation and the judiciary, etc. I will repeat, do not call them out. Do not give them the platform. They eat that up. They want to drag us into an ethics conversation on an issue the general public does not support. Make the conversation about who should make these decisions (courts vs game commissions), not whether we should be allowed to bait or not. Talk science. Talk successful recovery of griz even through decades of black bear baiting. These are what I have identified as our strongest talking points:


Here are some good talking points if your drawn into a conversation


- Idaho already does not allow baiting in recovery zone currently.

- Grizzly bears are proliferating even while baiting black bears outside core recovery habitat has been practiced.

- Yes, baiting is divisive. As sportsmen we should always be challenging each other and have thoughtful conversations about hunting.  Those conversations can, and have, eventually come to fruition through game commissions where new policy is set. Let's talk about bear baiting. It's ok to do so. But let's not talk about betraying the Commission model and put important decisions in the hands of judges who know nothing on the subject.

- Management of wildlife through legislation or the judiciary is neither ideal or scientifically sound. Entire agencies full of scientific expertise guide those decisions, which are not taken lightly. Whether you support baiting or not is of no matter. We all need to support these decisions being made by game agencies, commissions, and input from the public. Not one person (a judge).

- Bear baiting is actually defensible. You can take closer and more accurate shots. You can accurately sex as well. Baiting can actually help hunters avoid accidental take of grizzlies.

- This is an inappropriate use of the ESA. How many elk, deer, or bird hunters have had to shoot grizzlies in self-defense? How many berry pickers? Point is, whatever gets humans into these areas sets us up for conflict. Bear baiting is likely the lowest conflict starter (ie- there are far fewer black bear hunters than there are trail runners).

- There are an estimated 40 problem grizzlies killed a year in the three states. As hunters we support efforts to mitigate these conflicts (like infrastructure to keep grizzlies from entering county dumps and becoming habituated to food, wildlife overpasses, whatever). The lawsuit claims 0.33 grizzlies are killed per year by black bear baiting. Certainly, we stand with other hunters and non-hunters to reduce the 0.33/year, but the 40 per year killed by other conflicts.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2019, 08:14:33 AM »
 :tup: good stuff! He says it like it is. Thanks again for staying on top of this. Any ideas on how to better publicize this in north Idaho? I still have yet to see any mention of this here. I was thinking foundation for wildlife management ( I know they have their hands full with wolves ) but at least they could send it to members so hunters are aware. Also the trapping group and Rocky Mountain elk etc? Hunters need to know regardless of if they bait or even like it. His approach is perfect I think arguing for game departments to make management decisions instead of uninformed voters and or a judge. I remember in 93 when they tried to get rid of hounds and baiting in Idaho it didnít fly then but there is a lot of transplants here now. Who knows what would happen today feels like a fight to keep management decisions in the hands of the experts and everybody who hunts Idaho needs to fight that fight

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Anti baiting group for ID
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2019, 05:55:12 PM »
n_mathews13 thanks for keeping us informed.

I think the argument against baiting is pretty weak based on .33 mortality on grizzlies per year from bear baiting. A strong argument would be to concentrate efforts on resolving more significant causes of mortality. The huge loss of recreation and losing a needed management tool is not worth it. This is nothing more than an excuse by anti-hunters to shut down another form of hunting.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw) for spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered.

 


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