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Author Topic: Silver labs are not chocolate  (Read 4138 times)

Offline Colin

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2018, 04:05:03 PM »
Old Dog that's why I posted the more simple chart earlier... Cause I don't wanna read thru all that crap lol!

B's or b's or E's or e's I just wanna look at the picture and have it tell me. Lol!!!

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Offline jackelope

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2018, 04:43:31 PM »


[/quote]
Hmm... My understanding was that chocolates couldn't carry the black gene as a recessive trait cause it's the dominant gene. I easily could be wrong.

I'm just confused cause I believed the above so when you said a chocolate with a black gene I thought you meant they were getting the black from being a mix of lab and something else.

I do know there is an answer cause all the color variations as far as black, yellow or chocolate can be tested for.

Where's WRL? We need the expert!!!



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Gahhh... I shouldn't have even gotten involved in the genetics conversation.  I have no idea if that's possible.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline WRL

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2018, 10:23:54 PM »
Yellow to yellow ONLY gives you yellow. If you get a black puppy, you best be either betting on the billion dollar lottery jackpot or asking the milkman for child support.

Chocolate to chocolate only gives you chocolate or POSSIBLY yellow if both are yellow factored. A yellow from two chocolates will have a liver nose and eye rims or more rarely pink nose and eye rims. If you get a black puppy from two chocolates, see above about betting on the lottery or child support payments from the other baby daddy.

There is NO SUCH THING as a "black factored" any color....black is dominant, they are either black or a different color. Chocolate actually mutes the black hence the "liver" color on the nose and eye rims versus the black nose and eye rims seen on most yellows (and all blacks). The chocolate allele and the black allele are the same allele...think of it as two on or off switches. In order for the light to be on, both switches have to be in the on position. But if one switch is on but the other is  not, the light is not turned on. And if both switches are off, its off.

The yellow allele (e) is on a different locus. That is why you can get both black and chocolate pigment on the eye rims and nose.

Merry Christmas.

WRL

Offline JBJLabradors

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2018, 12:47:06 AM »
Silver is not a registerable color people lie and put it down as chocolate they are not. All silvers can be traced back to 1 of 2 kennels and they also bred Weims. Silver is the dd gene which purebred labs can not carry they are DD non dilute. As for fox red its just yellow which can range from white to fox red. Silvers never showed up till Kellogg and culo kennels lied and forged papers. They also most are affected with painful hair loss alopecia and other health issues. Silvers are not purebred no matter what anyone says.

Offline JBJLabradors

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2018, 12:52:44 AM »
Great website to understand hidden genetics. It's easy for breeders to forge papers.

http://www.blueknightlabs.com/color/coatcolor.html

Offline JBJLabradors

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2018, 10:17:26 AM »
Easy way to get Silver and Fox red with  white patchs in chest...... be unscrupulous and have a buddy with a weimeraner or a vizla.  The inherited physical looks show you more than paper. Look for longer legs, pointy heads,slimmer build and slightly different coats.

Problem is they are importing thicker English style labs and breeding back to those to hide this. It's called the improvement program in the lab world. This is a very hot topic problem is AKC only cares about the money and refuses to do what UKC does and pull registration papers on these dogs since they were originally the papers were forged.

Offline bornhunter

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2018, 10:54:55 AM »
Silver is not a registerable color people lie and put it down as chocolate they are not. All silvers can be traced back to 1 of 2 kennels and they also bred Weims. Silver is the dd gene which purebred labs can not carry they are DD non dilute. As for fox red its just yellow which can range from white to fox red. Silvers never showed up till Kellogg and culo kennels lied and forged papers. They also most are affected with painful hair loss alopecia and other health issues. Silvers are not purebred no matter what anyone says.

 :yeah:

Offline Happy Gilmore

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2019, 10:09:09 PM »
No red labs, no silver labs, no blonde labs, no cream labs, no champagne labs, no charcoal labs, no rainbow dream coats.

I just know what I was told from old timers about Carnation Farms kennels. They tested food on dogs, field trial dogs. Some of the old local trainers had some play in the training. They did not breed for color from anything I've heard. Most would have been black being from Bert Carlson and Paul Shoemaker breedings back in the day. Probably nothing newer than mid 1970's. Could be wrong. Just old stories I'm trying to remember
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Offline coachcw

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2019, 10:22:17 AM »
Silver comes from the little d gene . its a dilute gen , both parents must have it to get silver from chocolates , a charcoal lab comes from both black parents carrying the dilute gene . if a dilute parent silver breeds with a chocolate that has the dilute as well  then you can get chocolate or silver . if a charcoal dilute breeds with a black carrying the little d gene then you get blacks or charcoal . if either breeds with the opposite color then you can get a mix of each . but any dilute must have both parents with the gene factor . my chocolate boy has the dilute gene his mom has it she is chocolate and his dad is a silver . if any one has a female silver or chocolate dilute jax is uncut .
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Offline coachcw

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2019, 11:29:57 AM »
Jax
My wife told me that I hunt way more than I did when we first got married. I said yeah I know isn't it great !

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2019, 12:39:51 PM »
I totally respect a guy that tries to get his dog hooked up.  Nice :tup:     :chuckle:

Ok back to the serious stuff.
To the title.....   Silvers may not be chocolate, but when I saw what they were selling for, they created chocolate in my pants :yike:

Offline coachcw

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2019, 02:54:09 PM »
Ok so basically: there are currently three genes that determine Labrador coat colors. These genes each have two variations called alleles. The first of these is the pigment expression allele denoted as an “E”. The capital letter shows the dominate trait for genes. Lower case is recessive. In the case of labs there is no intermediate variation in the “heterozygous” case which would be “Ee” for this allele. Instead we call these labs to be carriers of the recessive trait without showing that they have the trait. Anyways, back to the “E” trait. When a dog has the “E” trait that means that they will express either brown or black coloration (we are not looking at the dilute factor yet). If instead both the maternal and paternal alleles give the dog an “ee” inheritance the dog will always be yellow in color. Meaning that the recessive “homozygous recessive” for the pigment trait will breed yellow labs. The second trait for lab coloration is the brown or black coloration. Now that we understand the pigment expression we look at the variations of brown and black. Black is dominate to brown so as long as there is a “B” present that dog will be a black lab. So to recap- a “EEBB, EeBb, EeBB and EEBb” will all give you a black lab. “eeBb, eeBB and eebb” will be yellow labs and “EEbb and Eebb” will be chocolate labs. The additional variation is the dilute gene. Like the yellow coloration- the color is only expressed if both genes are recessive “dd”. So now that we know if they will be yellow, black or chocolate we can add the dilute trait to the mix. Yellows will the homozygous recessive (both lowercase) will be red or white labs, blacks will be charcoal, and chocolates will be silver labs. There is a lot of controversy on lab color and if these dogs are actually true labs. The answer is absolutely. But at first these variations are very rare- as breeders start to breed dogs that randomly express these color changes they select for those colors in the population. They can at first happen as a random mutation which is very common and happens to all organisms. The more we breed these dogs the more we see them in the population. For example, when labs were first breed there was only the black coloration. Many generations later the yellow labs showed up then chocolate. Now we have dilute genes in the population showing the evolution of Labradors throughout history. Hope this answers your question.
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Offline coachcw

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2019, 02:55:23 PM »
So my daughter is into gentics ....it's over my head she said this is the simple version of it.
My wife told me that I hunt way more than I did when we first got married. I said yeah I know isn't it great !

Offline coachcw

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2019, 03:21:25 PM »
Essentially there is 64 variations of lab coat colors but the no intermediate factor knocks down the expressed combinations quite a bit.
My wife told me that I hunt way more than I did when we first got married. I said yeah I know isn't it great !

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2019, 03:23:59 PM »
It’s a pretty good explanation of the genetics.  Nicely done. 

 


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