collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Silver labs are not chocolate  (Read 11827 times)

Offline jetjockey

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 898
  • Location: Castle Rock CO
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2019, 05:20:47 PM »
Wild is 110% spot on.  The AKC has ruined more field dogs than they will ever create. Thank GOD the pointing dog world has American Field......  I’m hoping Brittany’s will completely split from the AKC after the last debacle I’ve had with them.   The AKC is a joke for those of us in the pointing dog world, who actually want dogs to point and run vs look good in a show ring based on a “standard”.

Offline WRL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 207
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2019, 06:04:10 PM »
Ok so basically: there are currently three genes that determine Labrador coat colors. These genes each have two variations called alleles. The first of these is the pigment expression allele denoted as an “E”. The capital letter shows the dominate trait for genes. Lower case is recessive. In the case of labs there is no intermediate variation in the “heterozygous” case which would be “Ee” for this allele. Instead we call these labs to be carriers of the recessive trait without showing that they have the trait. Anyways, back to the “E” trait. When a dog has the “E” trait that means that they will express either brown or black coloration (we are not looking at the dilute factor yet). If instead both the maternal and paternal alleles give the dog an “ee” inheritance the dog will always be yellow in color. Meaning that the recessive “homozygous recessive” for the pigment trait will breed yellow labs. The second trait for lab coloration is the brown or black coloration. Now that we understand the pigment expression we look at the variations of brown and black. Black is dominate to brown so as long as there is a “B” present that dog will be a black lab. So to recap- a “EEBB, EeBb, EeBB and EEBb” will all give you a black lab. “eeBb, eeBB and eebb” will be yellow labs and “EEbb and Eebb” will be chocolate labs. The additional variation is the dilute gene. Like the yellow coloration- the color is only expressed if both genes are recessive “dd”. So now that we know if they will be yellow, black or chocolate we can add the dilute trait to the mix. Yellows will the homozygous recessive (both lowercase) will be red or white labs, blacks will be charcoal, and chocolates will be silver labs. There is a lot of controversy on lab color and if these dogs are actually true labs. The answer is absolutely. But at first these variations are very rare- as breeders start to breed dogs that randomly express these color changes they select for those colors in the population. They can at first happen as a random mutation which is very common and happens to all organisms. The more we breed these dogs the more we see them in the population. For example, when labs were first breed there was only the black coloration. Many generations later the yellow labs showed up then chocolate. Now we have dilute genes in the population showing the evolution of Labradors throughout history. Hope this answers your question.

Actually you are wrong. Chocolate and yellow pups showed up in the first generations of the Labrador breed and are notated in the records before the stud book was closed. Dilute colored dogs showed up in the 50's (nearly 50 years after the stud books closed) in only one kennel. That kennel was Kellogg kennels. They were trying to reinforce the pointing gene in Labradors. This kennel also bred Weims.

Crist Culo took the "dilute" dogs they bought from Kellogg kennels and "marketed" them to the fullest in the late 70's and 80's.

The first dilute dogs in Great Britain and Australia showed up in the 90s and were from dogs imported from the US. The dilute gene was not in the population base in either of those countries until the imported dogs.

The dilute gene has not showed up in the "general" population of Labradors and only shows up in Labradors that have a dilute ancestor and all of those pedigrees of the dilute dogs go back to two different stud dogs at Kellogg kennels.

I have done over 40 dilute tests from dozens of different pedigrees within the Labrador population and none....ZERO have come up as dilute carriers.

Its an introduced gene and doesnt belong in the Labrador gene pool.

WRL

Offline hollymaster

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 1117
  • Location: Enumclaw
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2019, 06:41:05 PM »
Wild is 110% spot on.  The AKC has ruined more field dogs than they will ever create. Thank GOD the pointing dog world has American Field......  I’m hoping Brittany’s will completely split from the AKC after the last debacle I’ve had with them.   The AKC is a joke for those of us in the pointing dog world, who actually want dogs to point and run vs look good in a show ring based on a “standard”.
:yeah:  AKC is a joke.

Offline JBJLabradors

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2018
  • Posts: 52
  • Location: Westport, wa
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2019, 07:36:29 PM »
So my daughter is into gentics ....it's over my head she said this is the simple version of it.

This is wrong its the D locus and purebred labs only carry DD they do not carry the DD or Dd to give the dilute factor. It is not possible without mixed breeding with Weims.

Offline JBJLabradors

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2018
  • Posts: 52
  • Location: Westport, wa
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #64 on: January 18, 2019, 07:39:14 PM »
WRL your spot on

Offline Happy Gilmore

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 5005
  • Location: Fall City, WA
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2019, 05:51:36 PM »
Wild is 110% spot on.  The AKC has ruined more field dogs than they will ever create. Thank GOD the pointing dog world has American Field......  I’m hoping Brittany’s will completely split from the AKC after the last debacle I’ve had with them.   The AKC is a joke for those of us in the pointing dog world, who actually want dogs to point and run vs look good in a show ring based on a “standard”.

Just a minor correction, your breed club ruined your dogs and you breeders did nothing about it. AKC has never written a breed standard or promoted a style. It is your own breed club. If you know and research how the AKC works, you find they are a registry and the individual breed clubs handle the rest.

March on....
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt 1899

Offline Happy Gilmore

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 5005
  • Location: Fall City, WA
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2019, 05:52:52 PM »
Wild is 110% spot on.  The AKC has ruined more field dogs than they will ever create. Thank GOD the pointing dog world has American Field......  I’m hoping Brittany’s will completely split from the AKC after the last debacle I’ve had with them.   The AKC is a joke for those of us in the pointing dog world, who actually want dogs to point and run vs look good in a show ring based on a “standard”.
:yeah:  AKC is a joke.

This is inaccurate information. Sorry
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 10:55:35 PM by Happy Gilmore »
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt 1899

Offline haugenna

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 2211
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2019, 07:09:10 PM »
Tagging.

I have a fox red out of Morgan’s kennel in Chewelah.


Interesting read. There is a graphite colored dog that works at SeaTac that is absolutely gorgeous. Anyone seen him? I asked the handler if I could take a picture but he failed to stop and pose for me.  :chuckle:

Offline NOCK NOCK

  • Timberdog Slabs
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 6180
  • Location: E. Wenatchee
  • Timberdog Slab Designs
    • https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063502962432
    • Timberdogslabs.com
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2019, 06:26:08 AM »
I like them all, guess I'm not Lab racist.  :chuckle: :chuckle:
Live edge Slab woods, Log Furniture, Beds, Dressers, Tables, Chairs, Custom signs, Décor, Cedar fencing w/artwork cutting. Supplies
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063502962432

Offline WRL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 207
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #69 on: January 21, 2019, 11:36:57 AM »
Tagging.

I have a fox red out of Morgan’s kennel in Chewelah.


Interesting read. There is a graphite colored dog that works at SeaTac that is absolutely gorgeous. Anyone seen him? I asked the handler if I could take a picture but he failed to stop and pose for me.  :chuckle:

Fox Red has always been in the standard. They are yellows with a red modifier. Its found on a different locus.

WRL

Offline Jpmiller

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 3826
  • Location: Wilkeson
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2019, 11:53:12 AM »
Is there any difference in other areas physically or any temperament issues known to be with these "non pure" colors? Not trying to be a jerk or anything just curious about it.

Offline Old Dog

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 1184
  • Location: Pierce County
  • Groups: Old Dog
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #71 on: January 22, 2019, 10:05:58 AM »
Anxiety issues and hypoxia.  Hypoxia is a skin condition that causes hair loss and ulcers.
Hunt hard and shoot straight!

Offline WRL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 207
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #72 on: January 22, 2019, 12:38:37 PM »
Is there any difference in other areas physically or any temperament issues known to be with these "non pure" colors? Not trying to be a jerk or anything just curious about it.

Color dilution alopecia, certain types of cancer and lots and lots of allergies.

Along with the fact most have junk pedigrees of non health tested dogs behind them, they have HD at a higher rate and interestingly enough, PRA at a higher rate just like Weims.

WRL

Offline jagermiester

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2009
  • Posts: 868
  • Location: Burien
  • My family is my life
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #73 on: January 22, 2019, 01:05:45 PM »
Wild is 110% spot on.  The AKC has ruined more field dogs than they will ever create. Thank GOD the pointing dog world has American Field......  I’m hoping Brittany’s will completely split from the AKC after the last debacle I’ve had with them.   The AKC is a joke for those of us in the pointing dog world, who actually want dogs to point and run vs look good in a show ring based on a “standard”.

Just a minor correction, your breed club ruined your dogs and you breeders did nothing about it. AKC has never written a breed standard or promoted a style. It is your own breed club. If you know and research how the AKC works, you find they are a registry and the individual breed clubs handle the rest.

March on....

Kinda splitting hairs here don't you think?

We all know what he meant was breeding Dogs for show is what is ruining some of the working dogs.
Lead em if they're running.

Offline JBJLabradors

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2018
  • Posts: 52
  • Location: Westport, wa
Re: Silver labs are not chocolate
« Reply #74 on: January 23, 2019, 12:38:09 PM »
Is there any difference in other areas physically or any temperament issues known to be with these "non pure" colors? Not trying to be a jerk or anything just curious about it.

Yes aggression issues, alopecia, hair loss, skin cancer, PRA eye issues, there are legitamite reasons any ethical breeder and the labrador club of America and every single registry other then AKC will not register them. Every ethical breeders dogs test DD you can not get a dilute without cross breeding to Weims or other breeds its not genetically possible.

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

10th Annual - 2024 YOUTH TURKEY HUNT CONTEST (enter by Mar 14) by bearpaw
[Yesterday at 11:27:12 PM]


World Record Archery Blacktail by huntnnw
[Yesterday at 10:09:06 PM]


Let’s see your best Washington bull by huntnnw
[Yesterday at 10:06:34 PM]


Fishing with kids in Wenatchee by HardCorpsHuntr
[Yesterday at 10:03:34 PM]


Let’s see your best Washington buck by jjhunter
[Yesterday at 09:12:44 PM]


Hunting Dog Memorial by ghosthunter
[Yesterday at 08:55:30 PM]


Pairs by Dan-o
[Yesterday at 08:15:34 PM]


Springer 2024 Columbia River by Blacklab
[Yesterday at 06:50:06 PM]


Holster for FNS 40C by bb76
[Yesterday at 06:37:56 PM]


Bangers and mash by elkrack
[Yesterday at 04:32:06 PM]


Wenatchee Hydro Park Fishing by Jake Dogfish
[Yesterday at 03:40:17 PM]


Owners of Ireland Farms Dogs by ASHQUACK
[Yesterday at 12:24:39 PM]


1x scopes vs open sights by andersonjk4
[Yesterday at 09:23:28 AM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal