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Author Topic: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed  (Read 9330 times)

Offline luvmystang67

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Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« on: January 23, 2019, 07:54:56 AM »
Hey Hunt-WA Team...

I've got a basic design for a Tipi selected, but I need some help on the details.  Basic idea is low weight (not ultralight) spike camp type tent that I can use to dry things on a laundry line inside.  Shooting for <10 lb mark with the stove.

Already Determined:
Its going to be 12 isosceles triangles that are 141 inches tall (at center) and about 55" across the base.  This will yield a radius of about 101" (diameter of 202" or 16'10") which should yield a floor space of 223 ft^2.  It will be 99" tall or 8'4" at the center.  The material is a PU4000 from Ripstop by the Roll and the thread will be a Gutermann Tex 50 (unless someone convinces me otherwise).   This is roughly modeled after an 8 man kifaru, seek outside or titanium goat tent.  It will have a stove jack, an air vent, side tie-outs, and obviously some kind of door.

Designs Roughly Copied
https://store.kifaru.net/8-man-tipi-p78.aspx

https://seekoutside.com/8-person-tipi-pre

http://www.titaniumgoat.com/vertex8.html

Material:

https://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/1-6-oz-silpoly-pu4000-woodland-camo

My list of questions that I hope you can all help with:
1. What do I do for a door?  Most tents I see do not have a zip to the top, also, do I put a zip on a seam that I'm already stitching or do I cut a zipper in mid-panel?  I kind of like the design shown here, which basically has a cover over the top to allow for a much greater opening and might keep rain off, but might also be unnecessary: https://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/shelters-3/WG114.html

2. Do I need to add catenary curves to my seams and/or to the base cuts?  Do these actually provide much value in a tipi for the extra effort?  How much offset do people use?  If I did it, I'm tempted to do something small like 2" at center, but I'm also not even sure its needed.

3. What materials do I use for tie-outs and how to I affix them to the seams?  Do I take a doubled up piece of my main tent material and affix a small nylon loop to it and then stitch that into my seams?  Any recommendation here?  How far up should my tie-outs go?  Looks like many people tie them up about 2'.

4. Similar to #3, what do I really need for the stake supports?  Can I just double or triple up with my tent scraps for reinforcement and put a nylon loop on the ends of the seams and perhaps some on the midspans of my triangles?  I know some people use like cordura patches, are these really necessary? 

5. Any great recommendations on the stove jack, its location, the edge room required, etc?  I have the material from ripstop by the roll, but I'm trying to figure out how to integrate it.  One example here just leaves a hole in the tent, which is surrounded by velcro, which I like because you could replace the stove jack easily if you needed to (if it got singed or something), but appears to add some bulk and weight.  I guess the idea here is that you'd just put a blockoff panel of tent material (also velcro) over it if not in use.  The other option is to build it in and sew on a tent material flap that could be rolled up above it and have both panels be permanently affixed to the tent.  Anyone have examples or photos of how the big dogs do it?  How about edge margins?  https://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/shelters-3/WG114.html

6. What do I do at the base of the tent?  Most of the ones I look at have a small gap between the tent and the ground when stretched.  There are also other examples that leave a little bit of unstretched material below the lowest tie downs as a kind of wind block and seal with the ground.  I like the look of this, even though it'd probably end up with my tent getting dirty.  It'd be nice not to have a draft coming in at the base of the tent where I'm sleeping.  Does anyone have any experience and design consideration when it comes to this?  Also how do I finish the bottom of the tent? Do I put a nylon strip down there for strength and durability, or just do a roll stitch to save weight as the durability isn't needed?  The two types of bases I'm looking at are:
this pic again: https://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/shelters-3/WG114.html
versus a standard dead-end type finish: https://store.kifaru.net/8-man-tipi-p78.aspx

7. How do I finish off the top of this bad boy?  Do I leave the top open and then sew a small cone piece on?  Do I bring the tops together like a hat and then cone over that?  What does the top cone need to be?  How much do I need to reinforce the inside for the pole support?  Functionally, how do I do this with the machine?

8. Stupid question... does the 1.6oz mean 1.6oz per actual square yard, or is it per material yard (which is wider than 3 ft)?  I bought 24 "yards" of material, but nearest I can figure I should have a little more than 30 square yards of tent surface.  If I'm trying to get an approximate tent material weight before all the extras, I'm assuming I'm at 3 lbs given 1.6oz x 30 actual square yards.

Thanks for anyone who takes the time to read this, I need a little help.  I've already gotten a few pointers from Jonathan S.  Also, pics are worth 1000 words, so if you have any that'd help me.

Thanks,
Stang

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2019, 07:59:19 AM »

Offline Dhoey07

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2019, 08:01:05 AM »
Get a hold of Jonathan_S

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2019, 08:09:02 AM »
Get a hold of Jonathan_S
:yeah:  He’s built several - lucky source of info right here.   :tup:

I have a seek outside 8 man.  If building from scratch would design with tie outs 3’ up and catenary curves so you almost have 3’ sidewalls.   Similar effect of lowering center pole a couple feet and snugging up guylines. 

« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 08:16:16 AM by Magnum_Willys »

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2019, 08:10:03 AM »
I just got an 8 man SO with XL stove.  Let me know if you want any pics of details.  But otherwise, Jonathan_S is your guy for DIY.

Offline CoryTDF

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2019, 08:24:58 AM »
Tagging as I have thought about doing this as well. I don own a SO 6 man and I love it!

Going to be selling a TiGoat large WiFi stove soon if anybody is interested. I have to finish up testing and review then it's off to market.
CoryTDF

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Offline luvmystang67

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2019, 08:25:39 AM »
I just got an 8 man SO with XL stove.  Let me know if you want any pics of details.  But otherwise, Jonathan_S is your guy for DIY.

I'd love to see some photos of the areas I was curious about... basically the inside and outside of the peak, the way the stove jack is installed, the way the guy-line loops are attached, the reinforcements on the stake-out points, etc.

Basically a couple of detail pics that might help me.  If you don't have that but have some general pics of it assembled, that'd be helpful too.  I just don't have a good existing one to lay eyes on.

thanks, stang

Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2019, 08:29:37 AM »
Realized when I saw this that I forgot to follow up again with you.  I'm finishing a tent in the next few weeks and will post some pics for you based on what we talked about
“Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.”

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2019, 08:36:01 AM »
I just got an 8 man SO with XL stove.  Let me know if you want any pics of details.  But otherwise, Jonathan_S is your guy for DIY.

I'd love to see some photos of the areas I was curious about... basically the inside and outside of the peak, the way the stove jack is installed, the way the guy-line loops are attached, the reinforcements on the stake-out points, etc.

Basically a couple of detail pics that might help me.  If you don't have that but have some general pics of it assembled, that'd be helpful too.  I just don't have a good existing one to lay eyes on.

thanks, stang
Those were my areas of interest, too, when thinking about DIY.

I'll see what I can get you.  Got to burn in the stove and will likely do a test setup this weekend.

Offline luvmystang67

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2019, 08:38:36 AM »
Realized when I saw this that I forgot to follow up again with you.  I'm finishing a tent in the next few weeks and will post some pics for you based on what we talked about

Not a problem, I just needed to start a thread to get going on this.  I have all the material and its burning a hole in my pocket.  I want to get it cut out at least and extras ordered so I can get going before the sun comes out and I don't want to be sewing anymore.

Also, my wife is away a few days next week so I can take over the living room with cutting stuff and not be interfered with.


Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2019, 08:44:44 AM »
Get a hold of Jonathan_S
:yeah:  He’s built several - lucky source of info right here.   :tup:

I have a seek outside 8 man.  If building from scratch would design with tie outs 3’ up and catenary curves so you almost have 3’ sidewalls.   Similar effect of lowering center pole a couple feet and snugging up guylines.

Oh man I've gone through 375 yards of nylon 65".  I added up the miles of thread one time but I forget what it was
“Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.”

Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2019, 08:53:05 AM »
2.  Never done them, no advice  

3.  I use cordura, burn the edges and then nylon webbing or polypro webbing for the stake loops

4.  Stove jack centered, the top attached to the bottom of the top cone is the most stable and easiest to utilize the rest of the tent.

6.  Base of the tent just double roll and hem.

7. With the canopy done and zipper installed, turn the tent inside out.  Then with the top cone (cut and fitted to be slightly smaller than the top of the tent) right side out, drop it into the hole of the tent.  Pin in place and sew, sew, sew.  Leave enough material from the seam that you can fold it back over and sew again and again.  A grosgrain binding over top of it all is helpful and looks good.

8. 1.6 oz = 36”x36” prior to the silicone treatment
“Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.”

Offline luvmystang67

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2019, 10:35:54 AM »
Get a hold of Jonathan_S
:yeah:  He’s built several - lucky source of info right here.   :tup:

I have a seek outside 8 man.  If building from scratch would design with tie outs 3’ up and catenary curves so you almost have 3’ sidewalls.   Similar effect of lowering center pole a couple feet and snugging up guylines.

Does something like this ACTUALLY give you more space or just the illusion of more space?

Also, how does this relate to the slack material at the base of the panels?  I like the idea of using that to be able to block wind out, but I don't really want to be piling dirt on the extra material at the base of my tent either... so maybe it wouldn't provide any benefit.


Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2019, 10:43:19 AM »
I'd rather sew in an extra panel or two than try and mark catenary curves.  Maybe I'd feel differently if time weren't as important to me in an individual build.

I'll encourage you and everybody to not overthink a tent build.  It's rare to find a place to pitch it perfect anyway. 
“Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.”

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Tipi Build, Design Help Needed
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2019, 11:25:59 AM »
I'd rather sew in an extra panel or two than try and mark catenary curves.  Maybe I'd feel differently if time weren't as important to me in an individual build.

I'll encourage you and everybody to not overthink a tent build.  It's rare to find a place to pitch it perfect anyway.
amen Jon!  It's a teepee, dont over think it.  The more complex you make it the bigger the PITA its gonna be to pitch at 11pm after a 6 mile hike in 25mph wind and snow :chuckle:
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