Author Topic: Bore Riding Muzzleloading Bullets  (Read 416 times)

Offline Sabotloader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 2059
  • Location: Idaho, Northern
Bore Riding Muzzleloading Bullets
« on: April 14, 2019, 06:14:49 PM »
Several years ago Dave Fricke put my onto a bullet theorem developed by a guy named Lutz Moeller.  Basically with the little reading I have done he created a bullet to achieve great accuracy (and that is only one part of what he was trying to do) by putting 'Drive Bands' around the bullet.  The bands prevented the entire bullet from making contact with the bore.  I think he basically was saying with only the bands riding the bore, not the drag of the whole bullet, he could achieve greater accuracy. Yes, he did have some other goals for his bullets but the 'long range' and 'accurate' thoughts are what caught my attention.

These are a couple pics of his concepts..

With his bullet the drive bands did grab the lands for rotation and the bands do fill the grooves for the gas seal.

From this theorem - I deviated... If I could develop a muzzleloading bullet that would grab the lands - the bullet would get the rotation necessary for stabilization, then all I needed was a gas seal.  During my time working on this I was using bullets that would drop/slide easily down the bore of the given rifle.  From that point I would knurl the bullet to create enough lift on the bullet to create a grip on the bore, actually the lands.  And I was REALLY surprised how little grip was actually necessary to get stabilization.

I knurled bullets using files and then later went to what I call cut knurl lines.

This is an example of knurling using the files

And this shows an example of a cut knurl

For me the cut knurls worked much better than the knurling with the files.

The more difficult part was getting the right amount of lift for each barrel.

Next - Gas Seal!  My experiments started out with just 50 cal. bullets.  My first seal were just plain shot cards.  They worked very well then one day a thought came out of no-where - Why not a MMP 50 cal. sub bridge...  There were outstanding!

The sub base was not created for this but they worked great!

With these gas seals I was able to shoot regular flat based bullets with very good accuracy, even though they loaded very easily.  I am sure that I was not filling the grooves, but the bullets were gripping the lands of the bore.

From these thought and Lehigh Dave's bullet making mind he created many different attempts at making a sabotless basically bore riding bullet.  He started out with 50 cal. bullets but over time and experimenting I found that there is such a wide range of 50 cal. bore diameters it would be nearly impossible to build a universal bullet

The 45 cal. on the other hand offered a more narrow target opportunity of bore sizes.

This is a picture of an early attempt a 50 cal. Sabotless hunting bullet.  The drive bands designed to grab the lands and the base of the bullet was designed to obturate the size of the bore and seal the gas behind the bullet.

That brings up to today, the .458x260CF sabotless bullet which is nearly universal

Work on sabtless is still ongoing!

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline yorketransport

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 3017
  • Location: Yelm
  • I'm sorry, it's my fault I'll try harder next time
    • Scapegoat Enterprises
Re: Bore Riding Muzzleloading Bullets
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2019, 04:10:08 PM »
The guys at Hammer Bullets worked on something like this for Pittman Bullets.

I'm looking to get into muzzle loader hunting for elk and stuff like this makes the whole thing much more interesting to me.
Scapegoat Enterprises Custom Shirts and Decals

Offline olehunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 22
  • Location: eastern Oregon
Re: Bore Riding Muzzleloading Bullets
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2019, 09:08:20 PM »
Tubing cutter ,,great idea ,, Thanks Mike

Offline lokidog

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 14011
  • Location: Decatur Island/Sultan
Re: Bore Riding Muzzleloading Bullets
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2019, 10:06:56 PM »

Offline gee_unit360

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 447
  • Location: Ridgefield, WA
Re: Bore Riding Muzzleloading Bullets
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2019, 10:50:36 PM »
Sounds like something Id want a professional bullet maker to do.  :dunno:l

Offline gee_unit360

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 447
  • Location: Ridgefield, WA
Re: Bore Riding Muzzleloading Bullets
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2019, 10:53:36 PM »
No offense, you have helped me multiple times, just scary whe adapting black powder bullets.


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

So, you think you can shoot? by b23
[Today at 01:51:00 PM]

meateater buying first lite by dwils233
[Today at 01:49:14 PM]

Coyotes luring dogs by Bullkllr
[Today at 01:46:37 PM]

V-Max or ELDs, Which do you prefer? by b23
[Today at 01:43:25 PM]

Where did my nodes go by Bushcraft
[Today at 01:36:02 PM]

Spring bear changes on the table!!! by Bango skank
[Today at 01:36:02 PM]

Misc. arrows for sale by Dhoey07
[Today at 01:31:02 PM]

Crawdadn' - 2019 by Whitenuckles
[Today at 01:24:53 PM]

Ethics of using someone else's treestand? by Jpmiller
[Today at 01:23:21 PM]

Wts: 2016 yz450f by jakeweb
[Today at 01:22:49 PM]

Idaho Draw by chukar hunter
[Today at 01:17:42 PM]

F/S or trade: Possible tiny home by h20hunter
[Today at 01:06:20 PM]

2019 Velvet by OutHouse
[Today at 12:53:50 PM]

Is 6.5 Grendel enough for deer? by headshot5
[Today at 12:35:59 PM]

Reloading tools by buckfvr
[Today at 12:24:31 PM]

Training advice/techniques Labradors by Colin
[Today at 12:19:50 PM]

Expandable broadheads? by Russ McDonald
[Today at 12:19:16 PM]

STATEWIDE bear reg proposal 🤞 by jasnt
[Today at 12:04:18 PM]

Tires for sale. Free!!!!! by D-Rock425
[Today at 12:02:15 PM]

READ BEFORE PLACING ADS: Rules, Photos, 72 Hour Bump Rule, Feedback Ratings by Woodchuck
[Today at 11:21:46 AM]