collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: From the Stevens County Cattlemen  (Read 5859 times)

Offline nwwanderer

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 1968
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2019, 03:22:17 PM »
If you look into county empowerment you will find that the sheriff can trump (no capitol, sorry for the pun) any agency going.  It seems the NE counties have little choice.

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 19851
  • Location: The Wedge
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2019, 03:31:45 PM »
People dont trust wdfw to play straight with them.  People trust jeff.
I agree with that.  WDFW has their work cut out rebuilding trust with the community.  Part of the problem is a pretty widespread misinformation campaign that people have bought into.


I don't think trust will ever be restored, WDFW has labeled the whole of E/WA as "hostile towards WDFW"  (they said so in the meeting) and are acting accordingly; the "people" don't want anything to do with WDFW.

It's "US" vs "THEM" right now, and it's NOT just Stevens and Ferry Counties... but most of E/WA and soon it'll be W/WA too!


Offline wolfbait

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 6074
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2019, 06:18:51 PM »
People dont trust wdfw to play straight with them.  People trust jeff.
I agree with that.  WDFW has their work cut out rebuilding trust with the community.  Part of the problem is a pretty widespread misinformation campaign that people have bought into.


Rescue response delayed for woman treed by wolves in Washington


https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/rescue-response-delayed-for-woman-treed-by-wolves-in-washington/277-580035863


Most people by now have seen the damage wolves have and are doing, what's that old saying? You can chit the fans but not the players, rural E.Wash. etc., have had to play WDFW's wolf games, lost livestock, etc. only to be BS'd beyond belief. Where ever wolves "migrate" to, their true behavior is soon exposed, and it does not favor WDFW's views.

Offline pianoman9701

  • Mushroom Man
  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 30752
  • Location: Vancouver USA
  • NRA Life, MH, WFW, CCRKBA, NAGR, RMEF, WSB
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2019, 10:26:06 AM »
Having the county accompany the state on a depredation is a waste of time and money.

Because you trust this state over that County?  That's a true liberal statement.
What?  It doesn't have anything to do with liberal or conservative (not everything does BTW...).  It has to do with the level of expertise that I expect on a response and the ability to act.  Calling the county in addition to the state is costly and unnecessary redundancy. 

There is also a bit of a slippery slope here.  Should counties be managing wildlife?  I don't think they should, I think the sheriff should stick to public safety issues.

To all: there's no reason this conversation can't remain civil. Labels and name calling aren't necessary.

When the state refuses to take concrete steps to aid the people of the NE corner in combating losses to their businesses, pets, and dangers to their families etc., yes, the counties should step in to protect their neighbors. WDFW may be turning the corner on predator issues under new leadership and I hope that's true. However, the situation for the residents there hasn't turned the corner. They're suffering because of a history of poor predator management and the county sheriff is willing to help alleviate their losses. There's certainly no danger to the predator population by his involvement.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline ribka

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 5455
  • Location: E side
  • That's what she said
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2019, 10:37:22 AM »
Local law enforcement should get involved especially when it involves public safety.

How much money has the state wasted on the range rider scam perpetuated by Conservation NW?

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 19851
  • Location: The Wedge
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2019, 03:48:02 PM »
They aren't range riders, they're carcass locators.  They follow crows and bellowing cattle.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Offline MtnMuley

  • Site Sponsor
  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 7792
  • Location: NCW
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2019, 10:07:41 PM »
Local law enforcement should get involved especially when it involves public safety.

How much money has the state wasted on the range rider scam perpetuated by Conservation NW?

A lot more people view it the same as us, regardless of what gets posted on this site.  :tup:

Offline buglebrush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1363
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2019, 10:42:55 PM »
People dont trust wdfw to play straight with them.  People trust jeff.
I agree with that.  WDFW has their work cut out rebuilding trust with the community.  Part of the problem is a pretty widespread misinformation campaign that people have bought into.

What widespread misinformation?  It's plain to everyone that WDFW refuses to manage our predators.  Compare the Selkirk unit management to its neighbor in Idaho.  WDFW'S belligerent refusal to deal with predators is destroying our game populations, and until that changes it's all just BS.

Offline WAcoyotehunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 4177
  • Location: Pend Oreille County
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2019, 12:42:47 PM »
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/jun/21/cattleman-association-in-stevens-county-urges-resi/?fbclid=IwAR316tZVAuDsykxdoSRYDw2PXhBGGNGbWCecm1_Ab9tbbrW1dwe1DwOAk8k

It doesn't sound like the Sheriff's office is making the request that they be called first.... Is it appropriate for the cattleman's association to make this press release without talking to the sheriff's office??? 

Offline wolfbait

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 6074
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2019, 10:16:56 AM »
Quite sure ranchers etc. wouldn't agree as to how Sheriff Brad Manke's downplayed WDFW response to wolf reports etc.. One thing is for-sure, the wolf/cougar problems are only going to get worse.

Reporting wolf/cougar problems to the sheriff at least gets these incidences on record, I know of several wolf problems over the last 12-13 years that WDFW never mentioned a word about in their "dangerous" animal report etc..


The people I have talk to in the Okanogan etc. feel that calling WDFW over wolf predation etc. is a waste of time, quiet public wolf control on the other hand is the way to go in their opinion.


If the wolf pack hanging out at a bus stop in 2008 hadn't been called into the WSP where it went on record, it would not have been confirmed, WDFW were ignoring wolf sightings for years, even ignored reports of wolf predation. I agree 100% if you choose to report wolf/cougar problems call the sheriff.


Did WDFW ever have an impact statement for WA.? Or will that info. come out after there is nothing left to hunt......


Wolf impacts underestimated

According to the Wyoming Game and Fish Department, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service grossly underestimated the impact of a reintroduced population of wolves.

• The wolf population in the Greater Yellowstone area in 2005 was at least 3.3 times the original environmental impact statement prediction for a recovered population.
• The number of breeding pairs of wolves in the GYA in 2005 was at least twice as high as the original EIS prediction and the number of breeding pairs in 2004 was at least 3.1 times the original EIS prediction.
• In 2005, the wolf population in Wyoming outside Yellowstone National Park exceeded the recovery criteria for the entire region and continues to increase rapidly.
• The estimated annual predation rate (22 ungulates per wolf) is 1.8 times the annual predation rate (12 ungulates per wolf) predicted in the EIS.
• The estimated number of ungulates taken by 325 wolves in a year (7,150) is six times higher than the original EIS prediction.
• The percent of the northern Yellowstone elk harvest during the 1980s currently taken by wolves (50 percent) is 6.3 times the original estimate of eight percent projected in the EIS.
• The actual decline in the northern Yellowstone elk herd (more than 50 percent) is 1.7 times the maximum decline originally forecast in the EIS.
• The actual decline in cow harvest in the northern Yellowstone elk herd (89 percent) is 3.3 times the decline originally forecast in the EIS.
• The actual decline in bull harvest in the northern Yellowstone elk herd is 75 percent, whereas the 1994 EIS predicted bull harvests would be “unaffected.”
• Since wolf introduction, average ratios of calf elk to cow elk have been greatly \depressed in the northern Yellowstone elk herd and in the Wyoming elk herds impacted by wolves. In the northern Yellowstone elk herd and in the Sunlight unit of the Clarks Fork herd, calf:cow rations have been suppressed to unprecedented levels below 15 calves per 100. The impact of wolves on calf recruitment was not addressed by the 1994 EIS.

WG&F stated: “Despite research findings in Idaho and the Greater Yellowstone Area, and monitoring evidence in Wyoming that indicate wolf predation is having an impact on ungulate populations that will reduce hunter opportunity if the current impact levels persist, the Service continues to rigidly deny wolf predation is a problem.”

The 1994 EIS predicted that presence of wolves would result in a 5-10 percent increase in annual visitation to Yellowstone National Park. On this basis, the EIS forecast wolves in the region would generate $20 million in revenue to the states of Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. WG&F reports that annual park visitation remained essentially unchanged after wolf introduction, and has decreased 2.6 percent since the wolf population reached recovery goals in 2000.

“ Since park visitation did not increase as originally forecast, the Service cannot legitimately conclude presence of wolves has had any appreciable effect on net tourism revenues,” WG&F stated.

WG&F stated: “Wolf presence can be ecologically compatible in the GYA only to the extent that the distribution and numbers of wolves are controlled and maintained at approximately the levels originally predicted by the 1994 EIS –100 wolves and 10 breeding pairs.” WG&F maintained that FWS “has a permanent, legal obligation to manage wolves at the levels on which the wolf recovery program was originally predicated, the levels described by the impact analysis in the 1994 EIS.”


http://www.pinedaleonline.com/wolf/wolfimpacts.htm



In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only.  s:  http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml

Offline PA BEN

  • LINEMAN
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 4710
  • Location: Chewelah
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2019, 05:51:07 AM »
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/jun/21/cattleman-association-in-stevens-county-urges-resi/?fbclid=IwAR316tZVAuDsykxdoSRYDw2PXhBGGNGbWCecm1_Ab9tbbrW1dwe1DwOAk8k

It doesn't sound like the Sheriff's office is making the request that they be called first.... Is it appropriate for the cattleman's association to make this press release without talking to the sheriff's office???
Stevens County Sheriff and County Prosecutor came out in local papers and local FB pages asking to be called first. A local called on a cougar kill and the Sheriff and WDFW showed up with hounds. Also, our local Sheriffs are trained in wolf attacks and can confirm them when WDFW would  not.

Offline buckfvr

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 2840
  • Location: PREDATOR PIT UNIT 121
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2019, 08:38:23 AM »
Having the county accompany the state on a depredation is a waste of time and money.

Because you trust this state over that County?  That's a true liberal statement.
What?  It doesn't have anything to do with liberal or conservative (not everything does BTW...).  It has to do with the level of expertise that I expect on a response and the ability to act.  Calling the county in addition to the state is costly and unnecessary redundancy. 

There is also a bit of a slippery slope here.  Should counties be managing wildlife?  I don't think they should, I think the sheriff should stick to public safety issues.

Should our WDFW officers be doing drug busts, motor vehicle citations, and dui's ?????  You have always had wdfw's back as long as I can remember, that can be a good thing, but I suspect its because you are complicit in their efforts and privy to a large bit of their secrecy and refusal to share information publicly.  At times you exude the mannerisms that people have come to detest in wdfw.  You always seem to respond as if you are defending yourself.  Listen to peoples concerns and try to NOT be so condescending. 

Offline pianoman9701

  • Mushroom Man
  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 30752
  • Location: Vancouver USA
  • NRA Life, MH, WFW, CCRKBA, NAGR, RMEF, WSB
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2019, 08:57:03 AM »
Having the county accompany the state on a depredation is a waste of time and money.

Because you trust this state over that County?  That's a true liberal statement.
What?  It doesn't have anything to do with liberal or conservative (not everything does BTW...).  It has to do with the level of expertise that I expect on a response and the ability to act.  Calling the county in addition to the state is costly and unnecessary redundancy. 

There is also a bit of a slippery slope here.  Should counties be managing wildlife?  I don't think they should, I think the sheriff should stick to public safety issues.

Should our WDFW officers be doing drug busts, motor vehicle citations, and dui's ?????  You have always had wdfw's back as long as I can remember, that can be a good thing, but I suspect its because you are complicit in their efforts and privy to a large bit of their secrecy and refusal to share information publicly.  At times you exude the mannerisms that people have come to detest in wdfw.  You always seem to respond as if you are defending yourself.  Listen to peoples concerns and try to NOT be so condescending.

Sometimes, the way people are approached/attacked on this forum triggers a defensive or condescending response. WAcoyotehunter has a unique perspective, one that I don't always agree with. But his background and knowledge have certain bona fides with regards to predators and their management.

As far as your comment about gamies doing drug busts, DUIs, and traffic citations, that's part of their job as LE. And to WAcoyote I say, respectfully, a sheriff's job is to protect and serve his constituents, the people who live in the county that elected him. If he and those constituents feel that the response from DFW LE or bios is insufficient to protect them, then it's his responsibility to do so to the best of his ability. The NE corner has a severe predator problem, as we all know, more so than the rest of the state. Predators there are in no danger of population downward spiral because of a sheriff protecting his "flock".
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline buckfvr

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 2840
  • Location: PREDATOR PIT UNIT 121
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2019, 09:29:24 AM »
And of course I agree.

Offline PA BEN

  • LINEMAN
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 4710
  • Location: Chewelah
Re: From the Stevens County Cattlemen
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2019, 09:08:15 PM »
 :hello:

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Super forkies "SPORKS!!!" by boneaddict
[Today at 12:21:26 PM]


Special trapping permits and dam removal by JakeLand
[Today at 12:16:41 PM]


Wolves! by ne kid
[Today at 12:15:37 PM]


Feeler: 2014 Hoyt Carbon Spyder Turbo by Justdecent
[Today at 12:07:58 PM]


"Kickers" by CaNINE
[Today at 12:00:32 PM]


Night Force SHV 3-10X42 $900OBO by Parkern
[Today at 11:55:58 AM]


WTS Nosler 48 by canine15
[Today at 11:54:24 AM]


Steve rinellas blue mountains bull hunt by whack em
[Today at 11:47:18 AM]


Son needs a compound bow by bustedoldman
[Today at 11:44:54 AM]


Move along.....nothing to see here by Skyvalhunter
[Today at 11:39:40 AM]


Just 2 more years by Skyvalhunter
[Today at 11:38:03 AM]


2019 ATL’s by Whisker Biscuit
[Today at 11:37:00 AM]


2019 Season: "It's not that bad guys, it only hurts if I walk on it" by Mr Mykiss
[Today at 11:36:11 AM]


Rouge, CRV, RAV4,or what? by KFhunter
[Today at 11:35:28 AM]


Westside modern season partner needed by bullfever
[Today at 11:34:43 AM]


2019 bucks by Whisker Biscuit
[Today at 11:31:59 AM]


North Idaho? by Lapua07
[Today at 11:06:37 AM]


Early Christmas giveaway for a kid by huntandjeep
[Today at 11:03:27 AM]


Being Watched by woodswalker
[Today at 11:00:55 AM]


FS 2 Pack Pontoons by beardown
[Today at 10:50:47 AM]