Raffle permit numbers.

[Rainier10]

I do think it would be an interesting experiment to see what sales would be next year with no updates on ticket sales.

[Pegasus]

"The only thing that's remotely unfair is that we taxpayers have lazy, incompetent people (not)working for us in our state and federal agencies that are almost impossible to fire.  They could, and should, have the numbers of raffle tickets sold updated instantly online. Which was my initial gripe and warning a few years ago."

I agree that the numbers should be posted almost instantaneously but let us not blame people for not posting the numbers as incompetent. I am sure the the raffle numbers are updated and viewed daily by the higher-ups at the WDFW. Not releasing the numbers for two weeks after the permit draws notifications is not an accident IMHO.

If you call a company and some clerk gives you info that allows you to make an investment based on non-disclosed info you get to go to jail. Seems like someone got sentenced to 4 years today for selling on non-public info. Giving out non-public info to a select few on a raffle that increases their odds does not sound any different. Wide dissemination is the key...not buddies at the WDFW for a few.

   

Your comparison of insider trading and raffle numbers is funny. To be illegal you would need information that’s not available to the public at all. With the raffles ANYONE can call and get the updated numbers from the department they just have to make the small effort to call. That is not rigged and sometimes you don’t need to be hand fed everything from the government to call it “fair”. The information is available to everyone in the same way. ( you might need to pick up the phone though)The drama on this site is awesome what was the original question?     carry on!

Not so. Insider trading information is info that is not widely disseminated. Try calling a company and asking for their earnings before they have widely disseminated them. The raffle page is the wide dissemination of the numbers which they choose to update on a whim. There is no notice on the site to call or email for updated numbers and I am sure the WDFW can't handle an email or phone cal from everyone interested in buying tickets and I doubt they are even attempting to do so for the masses. It is by design to manipulate purchases for increasing the amount of money bet in these auctions by giving special treatment to a select few and by doing so they are breaking the law. The large purchasers are now freaking out that they have exposed themselves by admitting to having an "inside track" that most have been unaware of. That is classic inside info excuses. They think they deserve special treatment because they can make large purchases. You can see this in their demands to know how many tickets I have purchased as if that makes some difference in how the raffle is being run. Not so and everyone knows it. You are not supposed to get special treatment and you know you have been getting it because of your wealth. Not everyone can afford to buy two hundred tickets or plunk down $16000 for goat tickets. You are not entitled to special treatment versus the general public but you have been getting it.

[jackelope]

"The only thing that's remotely unfair is that we taxpayers have lazy, incompetent people (not)working for us in our state and federal agencies that are almost impossible to fire.  They could, and should, have the numbers of raffle tickets sold updated instantly online. Which was my initial gripe and warning a few years ago."

I agree that the numbers should be posted almost instantaneously but let us not blame people for not posting the numbers as incompetent. I am sure the the raffle numbers are updated and viewed daily by the higher-ups at the WDFW. Not releasing the numbers for two weeks after the permit draws notifications is not an accident IMHO.

If you call a company and some clerk gives you info that allows you to make an investment based on non-disclosed info you get to go to jail. Seems like someone got sentenced to 4 years today for selling on non-public info. Giving out non-public info to a select few on a raffle that increases their odds does not sound any different. Wide dissemination is the key...not buddies at the WDFW for a few.

   

Your comparison of insider trading and raffle numbers is funny. To be illegal you would need information that’s not available to the public at all. With the raffles ANYONE can call and get the updated numbers from the department they just have to make the small effort to call. That is not rigged and sometimes you don’t need to be hand fed everything from the government to call it “fair”. The information is available to everyone in the same way. ( you might need to pick up the phone though)The drama on this site is awesome what was the original question?     carry on!

Not so. Insider trading information is info that is not widely disseminated. Try calling a company and asking for their earnings before they have widely disseminated them. The raffle page is the wide dissemination of the numbers which they choose to update on a whim. There is no notice on the site to call or email for updated numbers and I am sure the WDFW can't handle an email or phone cal from everyone interested in buying tickets and I doubt they are even attempting to do so for the masses. It is by design to manipulate purchases for increasing the amount of money bet in these auctions by giving special treatment to a select few and by doing so they are breaking the law. The large purchasers are now freaking out that they have exposed themselves by admitting to having an "inside track" that most have been unaware of. That is classic inside info excuses. They think they deserve special treatment because they can make large purchases. You can see this in their demands to know how many tickets I have purchased as if that makes some difference in how the raffle is being run. Not so and everyone knows it. You are not supposed to get special treatment and you know you have been getting it because of your wealth. Not everyone can afford to buy two hundred tickets or plunk down $16000 for goat tickets. You are not entitled to special treatment versus the general public but you have been getting it.

There’s also nowhere on the WDFW website where it says they will or won’t update sales numbers.
I’m not demanding to know how many tickets you’ve purchased if you’re referring to my questions. That seems pretty clear in the question I asked. I couldn’t care less how many tickets you’ve purchased or in what categories.  I’ve asked a couple times if you buy raffle tickets.  That’s all. Do you participate or do you just complain and make claims that what they’re doing is somehow illegal?
I’ve complained openly in the past about the raffle system. I’m not a huge fan. But I also don’t make claims anything is illegal and I don’t dwell on the fact that a guy threw a large amount of dollars down on some goat raffle tickets.

(Not sure if you’re aware but every one of those $16,000 went directly back to mountain goat conservation too by the way)

[Dan-o]

"The only thing that's remotely unfair is that we taxpayers have lazy, incompetent people (not)working for us in our state and federal agencies that are almost impossible to fire.  They could, and should, have the numbers of raffle tickets sold updated instantly online. Which was my initial gripe and warning a few years ago."

I agree that the numbers should be posted almost instantaneously but let us not blame people for not posting the numbers as incompetent. I am sure the the raffle numbers are updated and viewed daily by the higher-ups at the WDFW. Not releasing the numbers for two weeks after the permit draws notifications is not an accident IMHO.

If you call a company and some clerk gives you info that allows you to make an investment based on non-disclosed info you get to go to jail. Seems like someone got sentenced to 4 years today for selling on non-public info. Giving out non-public info to a select few on a raffle that increases their odds does not sound any different. Wide dissemination is the key...not buddies at the WDFW for a few.

   

Your comparison of insider trading and raffle numbers is funny. To be illegal you would need information that’s not available to the public at all. With the raffles ANYONE can call and get the updated numbers from the department they just have to make the small effort to call. That is not rigged and sometimes you don’t need to be hand fed everything from the government to call it “fair”. The information is available to everyone in the same way. ( you might need to pick up the phone though)The drama on this site is awesome what was the original question?     carry on!

Not so. Insider trading information is info that is not widely disseminated. Try calling a company and asking for their earnings before they have widely disseminated them. The raffle page is the wide dissemination of the numbers which they choose to update on a whim. There is no notice on the site to call or email for updated numbers and I am sure the WDFW can't handle an email or phone cal from everyone interested in buying tickets and I doubt they are even attempting to do so for the masses. It is by design to manipulate purchases for increasing the amount of money bet in these auctions by giving special treatment to a select few and by doing so they are breaking the law. The large purchasers are now freaking out that they have exposed themselves by admitting to having an "inside track" that most have been unaware of. That is classic inside info excuses. They think they deserve special treatment because they can make large purchases. You can see this in their demands to know how many tickets I have purchased as if that makes some difference in how the raffle is being run. Not so and everyone knows it. You are not supposed to get special treatment and you know you have been getting it because of your wealth. Not everyone can afford to buy two hundred tickets or plunk down $16000 for goat tickets. You are not entitled to special treatment versus the general public but you have been getting it.

Pegasus,

Your analogy of insider trading is 100% inaccurate.

EVERYBODY has the same "Inside Source".   

You just need to pick up the phone and bounce around until you get the right extension/person.   

Insider trading is conducted on the basis of info others don't have access to......  not info others don't bother going after.

I've called and asked...... and I was never asked if I bought raffle tickets.
   

[idaho guy]

"The only thing that's remotely unfair is that we taxpayers have lazy, incompetent people (not)working for us in our state and federal agencies that are almost impossible to fire.  They could, and should, have the numbers of raffle tickets sold updated instantly online. Which was my initial gripe and warning a few years ago."

I agree that the numbers should be posted almost instantaneously but let us not blame people for not posting the numbers as incompetent. I am sure the the raffle numbers are updated and viewed daily by the higher-ups at the WDFW. Not releasing the numbers for two weeks after the permit draws notifications is not an accident IMHO.

If you call a company and some clerk gives you info that allows you to make an investment based on non-disclosed info you get to go to jail. Seems like someone got sentenced to 4 years today for selling on non-public info. Giving out non-public info to a select few on a raffle that increases their odds does not sound any different. Wide dissemination is the key...not buddies at the WDFW for a few.

   

Your comparison of insider trading and raffle numbers is funny. To be illegal you would need information that’s not available to the public at all. With the raffles ANYONE can call and get the updated numbers from the department they just have to make the small effort to call. That is not rigged and sometimes you don’t need to be hand fed everything from the government to call it “fair”. The information is available to everyone in the same way. ( you might need to pick up the phone though)The drama on this site is awesome what was the original question?     carry on!

Not so. Insider trading information is info that is not widely disseminated. Try calling a company and asking for their earnings before they have widely disseminated them. The raffle page is the wide dissemination of the numbers which they choose to update on a whim. There is no notice on the site to call or email for updated numbers and I am sure the WDFW can't handle an email or phone cal from everyone interested in buying tickets and I doubt they are even attempting to do so for the masses. It is by design to manipulate purchases for increasing the amount of money bet in these auctions by giving special treatment to a select few and by doing so they are breaking the law. The large purchasers are now freaking out that they have exposed themselves by admitting to having an "inside track" that most have been unaware of. That is classic inside info excuses. They think they deserve special treatment because they can make large purchases. You can see this in their demands to know how many tickets I have purchased as if that makes some difference in how the raffle is being run. Not so and everyone knows it. You are not supposed to get special treatment and you know you have been getting it because of your wealth. Not everyone can afford to buy two hundred tickets or plunk down $16000 for goat tickets. You are not entitled to special treatment versus the general public but you have been getting it.

   

That’s not true public information is legal to act upon and does not have to be broadcast to every possible person. Call wdfw and see if you can’t get some “inside “ information. Have a good 4th

[Ridgerunner]

Where is the popcorn? I seriously cant believe the circles that are being run around on this thread.  The information is there, it is available, all a person has to do is seek it out.  I personally think if someone wants to put forth some additional info then yeah they can get the updated information.  That in no way is insider trading.  It's proactive research and turning every rock over they can find so they can make the best decision they want. 

For years the detailed drawing information of who put in for each hunt by point level was available for the folks that put forth the effort to do a PD and get it.  I suppose you would have thought that was insider trading too.  Now that information is published so its not as useful as it was, however most people don't understand how to use it or apply it so 99% of people don't even look at it.  Does that mean that those who do get an unfair advantage because they put forth the extra effort to figure it out? 

I think most everything that happens in government is public record, they obviously don't publish everything but if you want it they will get it for you, just takes a little effort on your behalf. 

[Bushcraft]

Where is the popcorn? I seriously cant believe the circles that are being run around on this thread.  The information is there, it is available, all a person has to do is seek it out.  I personally think if someone wants to put forth some additional info then yeah they can get the updated information.  That in no way is insider trading.  It's proactive research and turning every rock over they can find so they can make the best decision they want. 

For years the detailed drawing information of who put in for each hunt by point level was available for the folks that put forth the effort to do a PD and get it.  I suppose you would have thought that was insider trading too.  Now that information is published so its not as useful as it was, however most people don't understand how to use it or apply it so 99% of people don't even look at it.  Does that mean that those who do get an unfair advantage because they put forth the extra effort to figure it out? 

I think most everything that happens in government is public record, they obviously don't publish everything but if you want it they will get it for you, just takes a little effort on your behalf.

Amen.

[Rainier10]

Where is the popcorn? I seriously cant believe the circles that are being run around on this thread.  The information is there, it is available, all a person has to do is seek it out.  I personally think if someone wants to put forth some additional info then yeah they can get the updated information.  That in no way is insider trading.  It's proactive research and turning every rock over they can find so they can make the best decision they want. 

For years the detailed drawing information of who put in for each hunt by point level was available for the folks that put forth the effort to do a PD and get it.  I suppose you would have thought that was insider trading too.  Now that information is published so its not as useful as it was, however most people don't understand how to use it or apply it so 99% of people don't even look at it.  Does that mean that those who do get an unfair advantage because they put forth the extra effort to figure it out? 

I think most everything that happens in government is public record, they obviously don't publish everything but if you want it they will get it for you, just takes a little effort on your behalf.

[Pegasus]

And the excuses and disinformation here continue...as expected.

[jackelope]

And the excuses and disinformation here continue...as expected.

You're skirting the details. Please specify examples of the excuses and misinformation you're referring to. Without that, your argument is null.

[idaho guy]

What I have gathered is bushcraft dropped 16k on raffle tickets and did NOT get a tag. I can’t believe the special treatment these high rollers get in the raffle!!!  Plus they can call the wdfw number that’s available to anyone! Something stinks here

[Rainier10]

WDFW is going to have to pay for their transparency on these freedom of information requests they handle for those that understand the information is there if you just ask for it.

I was at a town meeting with the WDFW. A guy was complaining about the elk season in his rural area. Had a petition signed by 500 people wanting the season changed. After explaining it all to David Ware, David asked if he could have the list of signatures to review. The petitioner said yes but asked why. Dave said he was going to take a sample of the names on the list and see if the even had hunting licenses or elk tags.

He said if they don’t pay into the system and participate I’m not going to put as much weight on how they think they game should be managed.

It would be really nice to know how much skin everyone has in the game that are complaining about the players and the game.

[jackelope]

Here's a great opportunity for those that are complaining about the current state of our WDFW and our wildlife.

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,240736.msg3222753/topicseen.html#new

[JimmyHoffa]

updated.  Looks like more are buying them now.

[ipkus]

WDFW is going to have to pay for their transparency on these freedom of information requests they handle for those that understand the information is there if you just ask for it.

I was at a town meeting with the WDFW. A guy was complaining about the elk season in his rural area. Had a petition signed by 500 people wanting the season changed. After explaining it all to David Ware, David asked if he could have the list of signatures to review. The petitioner said yes but asked why. Dave said he was going to take a sample of the names on the list and see if the even had hunting licenses or elk tags.

He said if they don’t pay into the system and participate I’m not going to put as much weight on how they think they game should be managed.

It would be really nice to know how much skin everyone has in the game that are complaining about the players and the game.

Interesting that Mr. Ware would say that while the rest of WDFW doesn't manage anything else that way?  Where do all the predator lovers pay into the system?  Or the whale lovers?