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Author Topic: Raffle permit numbers.  (Read 16340 times)

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #135 on: July 03, 2019, 10:07:05 PM »
I do think it would be an interesting experiment to see what sales would be next year with no updates on ticket sales.
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Offline Pegasus

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #136 on: July 04, 2019, 08:10:39 AM »
"The only thing that's remotely unfair is that we taxpayers have lazy, incompetent people (not)working for us in our state and federal agencies that are almost impossible to fire.  They could, and should, have the numbers of raffle tickets sold updated instantly online. Which was my initial gripe and warning a few years ago."

I agree that the numbers should be posted almost instantaneously but let us not blame people for not posting the numbers as incompetent. I am sure the the raffle numbers are updated and viewed daily by the higher-ups at the WDFW. Not releasing the numbers for two weeks after the permit draws notifications is not an accident IMHO.

If you call a company and some clerk gives you info that allows you to make an investment based on non-disclosed info you get to go to jail. Seems like someone got sentenced to 4 years today for selling on non-public info. Giving out non-public info to a select few on a raffle that increases their odds does not sound any different. Wide dissemination is the key...not buddies at the WDFW for a few.
   

Your comparison of insider trading and raffle numbers is funny. To be illegal you would need information thatís not available to the public at all. With the raffles ANYONE can call and get the updated numbers from the department they just have to make the small effort to call. That is not rigged and sometimes you donít need to be hand fed everything from the government to call it ďfairĒ. The information is available to everyone in the same way. ( you might need to pick up the phone though)The drama on this site is awesome what was the original question?   :chuckle::chuckle:  carry on!

Not so. Insider trading information is info that is not widely disseminated. Try calling a company and asking for their earnings before they have widely disseminated them. The raffle page is the wide dissemination of the numbers which they choose to update on a whim. There is no notice on the site to call or email for updated numbers and I am sure the WDFW can't handle an email or phone cal from everyone interested in buying tickets and I doubt they are even attempting to do so for the masses. It is by design to manipulate purchases for increasing the amount of money bet in these auctions by giving special treatment to a select few and by doing so they are breaking the law. The large purchasers are now freaking out that they have exposed themselves by admitting to having an "inside track" that most have been unaware of. That is classic inside info excuses. They think they deserve special treatment because they can make large purchases. You can see this in their demands to know how many tickets I have purchased as if that makes some difference in how the raffle is being run. Not so and everyone knows it. You are not supposed to get special treatment and you know you have been getting it because of your wealth. Not everyone can afford to buy two hundred tickets or plunk down $16000 for goat tickets. You are not entitled to special treatment versus the general public but you have been getting it.

Offline jackelope

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Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #137 on: July 04, 2019, 09:30:01 AM »
"The only thing that's remotely unfair is that we taxpayers have lazy, incompetent people (not)working for us in our state and federal agencies that are almost impossible to fire.  They could, and should, have the numbers of raffle tickets sold updated instantly online. Which was my initial gripe and warning a few years ago."

I agree that the numbers should be posted almost instantaneously but let us not blame people for not posting the numbers as incompetent. I am sure the the raffle numbers are updated and viewed daily by the higher-ups at the WDFW. Not releasing the numbers for two weeks after the permit draws notifications is not an accident IMHO.

If you call a company and some clerk gives you info that allows you to make an investment based on non-disclosed info you get to go to jail. Seems like someone got sentenced to 4 years today for selling on non-public info. Giving out non-public info to a select few on a raffle that increases their odds does not sound any different. Wide dissemination is the key...not buddies at the WDFW for a few.
   

Your comparison of insider trading and raffle numbers is funny. To be illegal you would need information thatís not available to the public at all. With the raffles ANYONE can call and get the updated numbers from the department they just have to make the small effort to call. That is not rigged and sometimes you donít need to be hand fed everything from the government to call it ďfairĒ. The information is available to everyone in the same way. ( you might need to pick up the phone though)The drama on this site is awesome what was the original question?   :chuckle::chuckle:  carry on!

Not so. Insider trading information is info that is not widely disseminated. Try calling a company and asking for their earnings before they have widely disseminated them. The raffle page is the wide dissemination of the numbers which they choose to update on a whim. There is no notice on the site to call or email for updated numbers and I am sure the WDFW can't handle an email or phone cal from everyone interested in buying tickets and I doubt they are even attempting to do so for the masses. It is by design to manipulate purchases for increasing the amount of money bet in these auctions by giving special treatment to a select few and by doing so they are breaking the law. The large purchasers are now freaking out that they have exposed themselves by admitting to having an "inside track" that most have been unaware of. That is classic inside info excuses. They think they deserve special treatment because they can make large purchases. You can see this in their demands to know how many tickets I have purchased as if that makes some difference in how the raffle is being run. Not so and everyone knows it. You are not supposed to get special treatment and you know you have been getting it because of your wealth. Not everyone can afford to buy two hundred tickets or plunk down $16000 for goat tickets. You are not entitled to special treatment versus the general public but you have been getting it.


Thereís also nowhere on the WDFW website where it says they will or wonít update sales numbers.
Iím not demanding to know how many tickets youíve purchased if youíre referring to my questions. That seems pretty clear in the question I asked. I couldnít care less how many tickets youíve purchased or in what categories.  Iíve asked a couple times if you buy raffle tickets.  Thatís all. Do you participate or do you just complain and make claims that what theyíre doing is somehow illegal?
Iíve complained openly in the past about the raffle system. Iím not a huge fan. But I also donít make claims anything is illegal and I donít dwell on the fact that a guy threw a large amount of dollars down on some goat raffle tickets.

(Not sure if youíre aware but every one of those $16,000 went directly back to mountain goat conservation too by the way)
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Offline Dan-o

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #138 on: July 04, 2019, 11:28:35 AM »
"The only thing that's remotely unfair is that we taxpayers have lazy, incompetent people (not)working for us in our state and federal agencies that are almost impossible to fire.  They could, and should, have the numbers of raffle tickets sold updated instantly online. Which was my initial gripe and warning a few years ago."

I agree that the numbers should be posted almost instantaneously but let us not blame people for not posting the numbers as incompetent. I am sure the the raffle numbers are updated and viewed daily by the higher-ups at the WDFW. Not releasing the numbers for two weeks after the permit draws notifications is not an accident IMHO.

If you call a company and some clerk gives you info that allows you to make an investment based on non-disclosed info you get to go to jail. Seems like someone got sentenced to 4 years today for selling on non-public info. Giving out non-public info to a select few on a raffle that increases their odds does not sound any different. Wide dissemination is the key...not buddies at the WDFW for a few.
   

Your comparison of insider trading and raffle numbers is funny. To be illegal you would need information thatís not available to the public at all. With the raffles ANYONE can call and get the updated numbers from the department they just have to make the small effort to call. That is not rigged and sometimes you donít need to be hand fed everything from the government to call it ďfairĒ. The information is available to everyone in the same way. ( you might need to pick up the phone though)The drama on this site is awesome what was the original question?   :chuckle::chuckle:  carry on!

Not so. Insider trading information is info that is not widely disseminated. Try calling a company and asking for their earnings before they have widely disseminated them. The raffle page is the wide dissemination of the numbers which they choose to update on a whim. There is no notice on the site to call or email for updated numbers and I am sure the WDFW can't handle an email or phone cal from everyone interested in buying tickets and I doubt they are even attempting to do so for the masses. It is by design to manipulate purchases for increasing the amount of money bet in these auctions by giving special treatment to a select few and by doing so they are breaking the law. The large purchasers are now freaking out that they have exposed themselves by admitting to having an "inside track" that most have been unaware of. That is classic inside info excuses. They think they deserve special treatment because they can make large purchases. You can see this in their demands to know how many tickets I have purchased as if that makes some difference in how the raffle is being run. Not so and everyone knows it. You are not supposed to get special treatment and you know you have been getting it because of your wealth. Not everyone can afford to buy two hundred tickets or plunk down $16000 for goat tickets. You are not entitled to special treatment versus the general public but you have been getting it.


Pegasus,

Your analogy of insider trading is 100% inaccurate.

EVERYBODY has the same "Inside Source".   

You just need to pick up the phone and bounce around until you get the right extension/person.   

Insider trading is conducted on the basis of info others don't have access to......  not info others don't bother going after.

I've called and asked...... and I was never asked if I bought raffle tickets.
   
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Offline idaho guy

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #139 on: July 04, 2019, 12:10:48 PM »
"The only thing that's remotely unfair is that we taxpayers have lazy, incompetent people (not)working for us in our state and federal agencies that are almost impossible to fire.  They could, and should, have the numbers of raffle tickets sold updated instantly online. Which was my initial gripe and warning a few years ago."

I agree that the numbers should be posted almost instantaneously but let us not blame people for not posting the numbers as incompetent. I am sure the the raffle numbers are updated and viewed daily by the higher-ups at the WDFW. Not releasing the numbers for two weeks after the permit draws notifications is not an accident IMHO.

If you call a company and some clerk gives you info that allows you to make an investment based on non-disclosed info you get to go to jail. Seems like someone got sentenced to 4 years today for selling on non-public info. Giving out non-public info to a select few on a raffle that increases their odds does not sound any different. Wide dissemination is the key...not buddies at the WDFW for a few.
   

Your comparison of insider trading and raffle numbers is funny. To be illegal you would need information thatís not available to the public at all. With the raffles ANYONE can call and get the updated numbers from the department they just have to make the small effort to call. That is not rigged and sometimes you donít need to be hand fed everything from the government to call it ďfairĒ. The information is available to everyone in the same way. ( you might need to pick up the phone though)The drama on this site is awesome what was the original question?   :chuckle::chuckle:  carry on!

Not so. Insider trading information is info that is not widely disseminated. Try calling a company and asking for their earnings before they have widely disseminated them. The raffle page is the wide dissemination of the numbers which they choose to update on a whim. There is no notice on the site to call or email for updated numbers and I am sure the WDFW can't handle an email or phone cal from everyone interested in buying tickets and I doubt they are even attempting to do so for the masses. It is by design to manipulate purchases for increasing the amount of money bet in these auctions by giving special treatment to a select few and by doing so they are breaking the law. The large purchasers are now freaking out that they have exposed themselves by admitting to having an "inside track" that most have been unaware of. That is classic inside info excuses. They think they deserve special treatment because they can make large purchases. You can see this in their demands to know how many tickets I have purchased as if that makes some difference in how the raffle is being run. Not so and everyone knows it. You are not supposed to get special treatment and you know you have been getting it because of your wealth. Not everyone can afford to buy two hundred tickets or plunk down $16000 for goat tickets. You are not entitled to special treatment versus the general public but you have been getting it.
   

Thatís not true public information is legal to act upon and does not have to be broadcast to every possible person. Call wdfw and see if you canít get some ďinside ď information. Have a good 4th :tup:

Offline Ridgerunner

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #140 on: July 04, 2019, 02:25:20 PM »
Where is the popcorn? I seriously cant believe the circles that are being run around on this thread.  The information is there, it is available, all a person has to do is seek it out.  I personally think if someone wants to put forth some additional info then yeah they can get the updated information.  That in no way is insider trading.  It's proactive research and turning every rock over they can find so they can make the best decision they want. 

For years the detailed drawing information of who put in for each hunt by point level was available for the folks that put forth the effort to do a PD and get it.  I suppose you would have thought that was insider trading too.  Now that information is published so its not as useful as it was, however most people don't understand how to use it or apply it so 99% of people don't even look at it.  Does that mean that those who do get an unfair advantage because they put forth the extra effort to figure it out? 

I think most everything that happens in government is public record, they obviously don't publish everything but if you want it they will get it for you, just takes a little effort on your behalf. 

Offline Bushcraft

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #141 on: July 04, 2019, 02:32:16 PM »
Where is the popcorn? I seriously cant believe the circles that are being run around on this thread.  The information is there, it is available, all a person has to do is seek it out.  I personally think if someone wants to put forth some additional info then yeah they can get the updated information.  That in no way is insider trading.  It's proactive research and turning every rock over they can find so they can make the best decision they want. 

For years the detailed drawing information of who put in for each hunt by point level was available for the folks that put forth the effort to do a PD and get it.  I suppose you would have thought that was insider trading too.  Now that information is published so its not as useful as it was, however most people don't understand how to use it or apply it so 99% of people don't even look at it.  Does that mean that those who do get an unfair advantage because they put forth the extra effort to figure it out? 

I think most everything that happens in government is public record, they obviously don't publish everything but if you want it they will get it for you, just takes a little effort on your behalf.

Amen.
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Offline Rainier10

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #142 on: July 04, 2019, 03:15:22 PM »
Where is the popcorn? I seriously cant believe the circles that are being run around on this thread.  The information is there, it is available, all a person has to do is seek it out.  I personally think if someone wants to put forth some additional info then yeah they can get the updated information.  That in no way is insider trading.  It's proactive research and turning every rock over they can find so they can make the best decision they want. 

For years the detailed drawing information of who put in for each hunt by point level was available for the folks that put forth the effort to do a PD and get it.  I suppose you would have thought that was insider trading too.  Now that information is published so its not as useful as it was, however most people don't understand how to use it or apply it so 99% of people don't even look at it.  Does that mean that those who do get an unfair advantage because they put forth the extra effort to figure it out? 

I think most everything that happens in government is public record, they obviously don't publish everything but if you want it they will get it for you, just takes a little effort on your behalf.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Pegasus

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #143 on: July 05, 2019, 07:18:51 AM »
And the excuses and disinformation here continue...as expected.

Offline jackelope

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #144 on: July 05, 2019, 07:58:35 AM »
And the excuses and disinformation here continue...as expected.

You're skirting the details. Please specify examples of the excuses and misinformation you're referring to. Without that, your argument is null.

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Offline idaho guy

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #145 on: July 05, 2019, 08:51:24 AM »
What I have gathered is bushcraft dropped 16k on raffle tickets and did NOT get a tag. I canít believe the special treatment these high rollers get in the raffle!!!  Plus they can call the wdfw number thatís available to anyone! Something stinks here :chuckle:

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #146 on: July 05, 2019, 09:47:20 AM »
WDFW is going to have to pay for their transparency on these freedom of information requests they handle for those that understand the information is there if you just ask for it.

I was at a town meeting with the WDFW. A guy was complaining about the elk season in his rural area. Had a petition signed by 500 people wanting the season changed. After explaining it all to David Ware, David asked if he could have the list of signatures to review. The petitioner said yes but asked why. Dave said he was going to take a sample of the names on the list and see if the even had hunting licenses or elk tags.

He said if they donít pay into the system and participate Iím not going to put as much weight on how they think they game should be managed.

It would be really nice to know how much skin everyone has in the game that are complaining about the players and the game.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline jackelope

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #147 on: July 05, 2019, 10:05:18 AM »
Here's a great opportunity for those that are complaining about the current state of our WDFW and our wildlife.

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,240736.msg3222753/topicseen.html#new

:fire.:

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Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #148 on: July 08, 2019, 08:17:31 AM »
updated.  Looks like more are buying them now.

Offline ipkus

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #149 on: July 08, 2019, 09:09:12 AM »
WDFW is going to have to pay for their transparency on these freedom of information requests they handle for those that understand the information is there if you just ask for it.

I was at a town meeting with the WDFW. A guy was complaining about the elk season in his rural area. Had a petition signed by 500 people wanting the season changed. After explaining it all to David Ware, David asked if he could have the list of signatures to review. The petitioner said yes but asked why. Dave said he was going to take a sample of the names on the list and see if the even had hunting licenses or elk tags.

He said if they donít pay into the system and participate Iím not going to put as much weight on how they think they game should be managed.

It would be really nice to know how much skin everyone has in the game that are complaining about the players and the game.

Interesting that Mr. Ware would say that while the rest of WDFW doesn't manage anything else that way?  Where do all the predator lovers pay into the system?  Or the whale lovers?

 


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