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Author Topic: Raffle permit numbers.  (Read 16485 times)

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #165 on: July 08, 2019, 03:39:10 PM »
WDFW is going to have to pay for their transparency on these freedom of information requests they handle for those that understand the information is there if you just ask for it.

I was at a town meeting with the WDFW. A guy was complaining about the elk season in his rural area. Had a petition signed by 500 people wanting the season changed. After explaining it all to David Ware, David asked if he could have the list of signatures to review. The petitioner said yes but asked why. Dave said he was going to take a sample of the names on the list and see if the even had hunting licenses or elk tags.

He said if they donít pay into the system and participate Iím not going to put as much weight on how they think they game should be managed.

It would be really nice to know how much skin everyone has in the game that are complaining about the players and the game.
That's an easy one to answer: if you are a citizen of the State of WA you are an equal co-owner of all the wildlife found within its borders.  That's the 'skin' in the game.
So you are okay with the citizens of King county voting to ban hound hunting of cougars and bear baiting? They donít all hunt or buy licenses but they want the rules changed and they got it done. They are citizens with skin in the game.
Each voter in King County has the same ownership as a voter in Stevens County.  While I do not like or agree with the initiative it is the prerogative of the citizens of the state to decide how their wildlife is managed.  In this state, a majority do not want their bears and cats chased with hounds. Me being a hunter and not liking it does not mean my vote counts more than another citizens...however uninformed they may be.  :chuckle:

For sake of keeping this thread at least on the raffle permits...lets presume one is arguing you must buy raffle tickets to have a valid opinion on how (or IF) the raffle is conducted.  My contention is that is absurd...its a public resource being raffled off and we all have equal say in how public resources are managed.

I don't need to buy a $6 raffle ticket to have an equal and valid opinion on raffling off extremely limited public resources...No more than I need to be a drunk driver to have a valid opinion on legal BAC limits for traveling a public highway.     
Fair enough. I personally donít like the fact that a non hunter in King County can i act legislation that overrides what the game department has decided is the best way to manage our game. In my opinion you should be more involved and more informed than just being a citizen of the state to make those kinds of decisions. Kind of like Mike Roe says, if you are not informed about the candidates donít go out and vote based on a TV commercial that pulls at your emotions.

Sticking with the topic, I think the raffle system does exactly what it is intended to do, generate a ton of revenue for a financially strapped agency at the very low cost, in my opinion, of a handful of big game animals.

I also believe there are way more big game animals lost to poaching than are taken by these raffle permit holders and there is no revenue generated by poaching for the department.

I think the energy to support the North American model of wildlife management and conservation should be focused on stopping the poaching before we worry about raffle permits.

If the energy in the debate over the raffle system is how to make them more fair so everyone has the same chance of winning one I will say there are definitely areas that energy should be used on in my opinion.

If the goal is for everyone to have the same chance get rid of the raffles and add the one California sheep tag back into the general draw and donít generate the additional $74,000 that one raffle did last year.
I think we can all agree efforts to stop poaching are worthy and good for conservation...but it is not mutually exclusive to other attacks on the NAMWC.  Auctions and raffles erode at the bedrock principle that wildlife is owned by the public in that they set aside the highest quality opportunity for an exclusive few...much like the European model of wildlife management.  Part of the reason raffle permits and auction tags sell for high value is because of the tight harvest limitations imposed on all the rest of the public.  That eastside elk tag sells for what it does because bull harvest is extremely restricted in E. Wa...if we continue on with programs that cater to the privileged few at the expense of the rest of the public...well, lets just say I don't like the idea of going down the road of European game management and hunting. 

However, the pragmatic side of me says, well, what's one sheep or elk given the revenue it generates?  And for me, it comes down to two things:
1. WDFW is awful at using money effectively.  While their budget is restricted and its not just one big checking account to use as they please, they still have a very large budget and I do not believe for one second that critical and valuable projects would go to the way side if they didn't bring in $74k from any given raffle. Fire one wolf facilitator and put each of those raffle and auction tags in the regular draw...there...revenue neutral.
2. Perhaps more importantly, in principle I don't support erosion of the NAMWC and that's exactly what auction/raffle tags do...no matter how well the money is spent nor how generous and well meaning the buyer is.   

And to be clear...I have no criticism towards any of the folks buying raffle tickets or auction tags.  Those folks are playing by the established rules...my discontent is with WDFW commission for allowing such a game to exist...they are not being good stewards of precious public resources.  Like jackelope, if I had the means and the state refused to eliminate auctions/raffles...I'd probably be first in line to buy tags and wheelbarrows of tickets.
   

I  agree with Idahohunter  on this one. I don't get to say that very often :chuckle:

Offline Woodchuck

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #166 on: July 08, 2019, 04:05:47 PM »
Everything looks right at where it should be for the time frame. The only one that looks low in numbers is the moose. Some high some low changes year to year depending on which whale wants what.
You hush up.  :chuckle:
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Online teanawayslayer

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #167 on: July 08, 2019, 04:10:28 PM »
Everything looks right at where it should be for the time frame. The only one that looks low in numbers is the moose. Some high some low changes year to year depending on which whale wants what.
You hush up.  :chuckle:
hahaha. Sorry bud! I invested a few bucks into it myself. All it takes is to get lucky.  :tup:
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Offline Rainier10

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #168 on: July 08, 2019, 04:12:13 PM »
Why is the NE combo always so low? Moose, elk and whitetail seem like a great combo.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


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Offline HillHound

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #169 on: July 08, 2019, 04:17:25 PM »
Could be the declining numbers in all categories as well as the increasing numbers in all categories of predators in that area

Online teanawayslayer

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #170 on: July 08, 2019, 04:18:07 PM »
Ne was low last year as well. I think I bought more tickets than anyone individual last year and the guy who won bought less than 10 tickets. Last time I started buying tickets in bulk.
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Offline Woodchuck

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #171 on: July 08, 2019, 04:37:02 PM »
Everything looks right at where it should be for the time frame. The only one that looks low in numbers is the moose. Some high some low changes year to year depending on which whale wants what.
You hush up.  :chuckle:
hahaha. Sorry bud! I invested a few bucks into it myself. All it takes is to get lucky.  :tup:
Apparently I am stopping by and picking some more up tonight.  :chuckle:
Good luck man, somebody has to win it.  :tup:
Antlered rabbit tastes like chicken


Inuendo, wasn't he an Italian proctoligist?

Offline Woodchuck

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #172 on: July 09, 2019, 09:11:10 AM »
They may as well just send me the permit now. I went all in last night. Skipped rent, pawned the Satellite, refinanced the dog, I went ALL in.
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Inuendo, wasn't he an Italian proctoligist?

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #173 on: July 09, 2019, 09:16:50 AM »
They may as well just send me the permit now. I went all in last night. Skipped rent, pawned the Satellite, refinanced the dog, I went ALL in.
Looks like you at least spread out your money, $8,500 on the south central combo and $7,200 on the eastern elk.  Smart move, wouldn't want to put all your eggs in one basket.  :tup:
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


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Offline Ghost Hunter

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #174 on: July 09, 2019, 07:54:10 PM »
As a small player, I see the odds better in some categories that the special permits.  Just buying a chance.   :dunno:  Spent my annual gambling fund.  Might double down since I don't smoke, chew, or drink $5 coffees.
Economy failure = Too many people spending money they don't have on things they don't need to impress people they don't like.

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #175 on: July 16, 2019, 12:00:53 AM »
Last day of sales and they didnt even bother updating after 0830.  jerks.

Offline Ridgerunner

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #176 on: July 16, 2019, 06:55:40 AM »
Will be interesting to see what the final numbers ended up at.  Some categories that included the most sought after animal in the state were surprisingly low as of yesterday morning, I really doubt they stayed that way.

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #177 on: July 16, 2019, 07:09:23 AM »
Seemed to me like sheep and goat were a little low, but things always jump up quick right at the end.

Offline yogru

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #178 on: July 16, 2019, 07:15:29 AM »
Good luck guys.  Still have a few weeks of dreaming before I get the bad (realistic) news on these.

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Raffle permit numbers.
« Reply #179 on: July 16, 2019, 07:18:35 AM »
Probably not a few weeks.  they are pretty quick on the raffle drawing.  a few days most likely.

 


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