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Author Topic: Koro rat trap?  (Read 4163 times)

Offline Cougartail

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Koro rat trap?
« on: July 05, 2019, 10:39:37 AM »
Are they legal ?
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Offline Humptulips

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2019, 11:18:51 AM »
In April I spoke with Eric Gardner Deputy Director for Wildlife. He told me yes. I spoke with Director Susewind about a week later and he told me yes they are legal and I could expect to receive a copy of a directive going to Enforcement Officers making this clear.
I have yet to receive anything in writing and yes I have sent numerous e-mails and left many voice mails about this to no avail. It seems Standard Operating Procedure at Olympia to never return calls or reply to e-mails. Very frustrating! I keep trying.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2019, 10:41:01 AM »
I spoke with Chief Bear this morning and there is another meeting regarding KORO rat traps Friday. I thought this was a done deal but apparently Enforcement is balking. Chief Bear says he has asked for guidance from the AGs office. This is the third time I have been told that so maybe this time they are actually doing it.
I should know more next week.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline DishBogget

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2019, 08:09:05 PM »
I donít know how you deal with them, I wouldíve completely lost it by now.


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Offline Cougartail

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2019, 10:22:54 AM »
More meetings so no one person holds a decision and takes responsibility.. Blame sharing is how it works to keep your job..  lol
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Offline Humptulips

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2019, 01:34:56 PM »
Still no luck getting a response to my inquiries. I think I can ambush them at the Commission meeting and put them on the spot.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline DishBogget

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2019, 05:44:27 PM »
Still no luck getting a response to my inquiries. I think I can ambush them at the Commission meeting and put them on the spot.
I like it


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Offline Humptulips

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2019, 08:40:01 PM »
I now have a letter OKing the use of the KORO rat trap. It seems though the Department or at least some in it still want to put up a fight about it. We do have interim use but it looks like we will have to continue the pressure as they have telegraphed their intent to revisit the issue.
I'm attaching a memo I received from the Director to the Chief of Enforcement.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline flyfishWA

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2019, 09:23:25 PM »
I now have a letter OKing the use of the KORO rat trap. It seems though the Department or at least some in it still want to put up a fight about it. We do have interim use but it looks like we will have to continue the pressure as they have telegraphed their intent to revisit the issue.
I'm attaching a memo I received from the Director to the Chief of Enforcement.
to bad it looks like they might try to change it soon? will the small version (the one allowed for now) kill a mink do you think?
"speak softly and carry a big stick" Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2019, 09:57:21 PM »
I now have a letter OKing the use of the KORO rat trap. It seems though the Department or at least some in it still want to put up a fight about it. We do have interim use but it looks like we will have to continue the pressure as they have telegraphed their intent to revisit the issue.
I'm attaching a memo I received from the Director to the Chief of Enforcement.
to bad it looks like they might try to change it soon? will the small version (the one allowed for now) kill a mink do you think?

I believe it will kill a mink. It is just a question of figuring out how to set the trap to get the proper strike. I have never caught a mink in one and it will take a little experimentation to see how to get them into the trap far enough. Plenty strong, if you can get them in far enough for a strike across the neck it would be lights out.
I have ideas but right now that's all they are.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline DishBogget

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2019, 10:49:27 AM »
So essentially we found a loophole that theyíll allow us to use until such time as they can close it?


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Offline Humptulips

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2019, 11:15:00 AM »
I wouldn't be quite that pessimistic. It will undoubtedly come up but we will have a say, so it is not certain they will be successful in outlawing them.
Bruce Vandervort

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2019, 04:54:38 PM »
I wouldn't be quite that pessimistic. It will undoubtedly come up but we will have a say, so it is not certain they will be successful in outlawing them.

Thanks Bruce appreciate all you do.


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Offline Cougartail

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2019, 01:34:36 PM »
There are 2 sizes of these traps. They are both called rodent traps. (Large & small.) Are they both legal?
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Offline Humptulips

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2019, 04:40:12 PM »
There are 2 sizes of these traps. They are both called rodent traps. (Large & small.) Are they both legal?

No, Only the 3.5"x4" tall "Rodent" is legal. The "Large Rodent" is built and sold for muskrat and therefore not considered a "common rat trap". The letter from the Director is very specific to the 3.5"x 4" size.
Bruce Vandervort

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2019, 04:56:34 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.
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Offline BillyTraps

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2019, 02:52:32 PM »
Has anyone tried adding a second spring? if so, I would like to know the best way.

thanks

Offline huntingfool7

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2019, 04:15:09 AM »
I don't think there is room for an additional spring. 

It is a very strong, little rat trap.  Any critter that can fit inside the traps small frame will be dispatched without the need for additional strength.  The trap is meant to be placed in a box so the rodent has to enter from the front.  It is not meant to be a tunnel trap where the rodent runs through side to side.  Coming in from the front, the trap has passed foreign standards for humane dispatch.

If there is a weakness to this design it is in the trigger pan/dog.  It is not a very sensitive trap.  Often the target rodent will steal the bait off of several traps before tripping one.  I always gang set with two traps in a wire exclusion tunnel (one trap facing each direction).  I pulled one job yesterday.  2 of 4 traps had the bait stolen.  The 3rd trap had the culprit.

Picture came from a foreign site and depicts the use of the larger koro trap.  It's interesting that they use the larger trap in this box and then restrict the entrances down to a size that would be covered by the smaller trap. My exclusion boxes are made of wire but they are set up similar to this. 

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2019, 09:05:38 AM »
Has anyone tried adding a second spring? if so, I would like to know the best way.

thanks

I would caution anyone against doing anything more than minor modification. The law that encompasses these traps references "common rat and mouse traps". If we go modifying the traps they will no longer meet the definition of "common". IMO adding an additional spring will invalidate their categorization as a common rat trap.
I do believe the trigger needs to have something done with it in order to use it on animals like mink, marten, civit and muskrat. I have used them with the pan unmodified and they spring too early. The animal needs to get farther into the trap before they trigger or the jaw will hit them in the face and push them out of the trap.
If you cut about 1/2 the pan off they will get far enough into the trap to get a neck catch at least with civits. I have not used them on other animals and it will take some experimentation to see what works best.
As said above they need to be used in a box and oriented so the animal enters from the front. I do not think they need a second spring as they are very strong.

Next year the Department has registered their intent to make a rule defining "common rat and mouse trap". Please do not screw this up for us by trying to make this into a trap it is not. Very minor modification is as far as we dare go.
Bruce Vandervort

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2019, 01:41:00 PM »
So, I have a koro set next to a little pond. there is swamp grass along the top of the pond where I have my trap set. the pond has crawdads and salamanders in it. their is a small rocky creek that basically drys up in the summer that goes out of the pond. today when I checked my koro, the box was pulled about 4 feet closer to the pond. the area around the box from where it had been to where it was when I got there was all tore up and the chain wrapped up in the grass. the chain is attached to the box. the trap was inside of a little tunnel through the grass which was about 5 inches wide by 5 inches tall. nothing was in the trap but it was snapped off and the beaver leg I had for bait was also in the tunnel. a couple feet farther down the tunnel it goes into the water. I can't figure out what it could be, any ideas? :dunno:
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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2019, 05:46:55 PM »
Iím guessing your trap was set close to the front opening of the box? Could be a cat or a coon reaching in

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2019, 07:05:53 PM »
Sounds like a good place for a mink. Let's assume a mink was in it. Two things could have happened. It didn't get caught but pulled the bait out, bait got caught and it ended up pulling bait out of the trap.
Other option, trapped mink and it wasn't in the trap far enough, maybe hit its nose or head  and it pulled out.
If the trap was out of the box possibly the animal had a hold of the bait, trap whack the animal and animal pulled trap and bait out and eventually  pulled out of trap.
Head scratcher! Never had anyone catch a mink in one yet so it is still an experiment.
Any chance you could show us a picture of the scene.
Bruce Vandervort

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2019, 08:45:32 PM »
I had a similar experience in a Marten area. Next time I set one I'm goint to put a trail camera on it in video mode.

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2019, 09:11:19 PM »
I think now that it might have been a coon.
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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2020, 07:50:56 PM »
I am almost positive I had one set off like this by a coon.... It hit his paw and he just pulled his paw right out, just like if he was hit with a victor rat trap. I had it set by the water in a big ball of roots (and it was in a homemade box), hoping to get a mink or weasel. But instead I had a sprung trap, and racoon tracks everywhere.

Offline Trapper John

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2020, 02:41:53 PM »

Well if you want to make money trapping moles it works on them
JC   :hello:



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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2020, 07:37:34 PM »
Alls I can say is cut the cable off and throw it away and hook up a small chain or nail the trap to the box !! I lost a trap and a marten tonight and then t snowed 2+ feet since it was caught. The cable pulled through the ferrel ( crappy design) Iíll be taking all of them off and replacing with small chain
Going back up tomorrow with the dog to dig and search. Anyone got a metal detector?

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2020, 08:01:37 PM »
Alls I can say is cut the cable off and throw it away and hook up a small chain or nail the trap to the box !! I lost a trap and a marten tonight and then t snowed 2+ feet since it was caught. The cable pulled through the ferrel ( crappy design) Iíll be taking all of them off and replacing with small chain
Going back up tomorrow with the dog to dig and search. Anyone got a metal detector?


I had a cable break away just pulling up a mole trap out of a hole with dirt on it.  :yike:
I took everyone I have and hammered the ferrules shut.  That solved the cable problem.
I would recommend to everyone that has or have purchased a Koro Traps to do the same thing before putting them out.
Like Jake said, crappy design and I say bad inspection on Koro part.
JC   :hello:




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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2020, 08:07:32 PM »
I did double crimp them at home and it looks like really cheap cable cause there is strands still in the ferrel

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2020, 10:41:20 PM »
Every time I have talked about them I have said to cut the cable off and toss it. No need for it anyway.
I drilled a hole on the bottom front of my boxes and wire them to the box and leave a tail to attach to a tree or bush.
Bruce Vandervort

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2020, 06:29:34 PM »
A few observations on using these traps.
I have now caught 68 civets this year and I have tried setting them a number of different ways. I am now pretty confident the best way to set them is upside down. As you know I use a box and set the trap near the front of the trap. Bait in the back that I have a spike through to hold it in place. I set trap normal right side up and through a hole I have drilled in the front floor of the box I wire the leading edge of the trap tight to the floor. Now just turn the box over. Make sure the safety catch is out of the way. I also bend the end of the spring that sticks up down to give the opening a more open appearance.
The mechanics of why upside down is best.
The striking bar travels in an arc and with the civets head up it is apt to strike the civet in the nose. Any strike ahead of its ears results in the jaw pushing the civet out of the trap. This can also result in a foot catch.
Upside down the civets head is in a position closer to the what one thinks of as the bottom of the trap and the arc is longest at this point so the civet will be struck farther back. Also it can't push the civet out of the trap from that angle. If the civet has it's foot inside the trap you will catch near the shoulders which is good.
A neck catch is still common with the trap set upside down and I am still working on the best method for a run pole set as I think a neck caught civet will self dispatch better if it were to fall off a run pole.
Bruce Vandervort

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2020, 06:54:04 PM »
A few observations on using these traps.
I have now caught 68 civets this year and I have tried setting them a number of different ways. I am now pretty confident the best way to set them is upside down. As you know I use a box and set the trap near the front of the trap. Bait in the back that I have a spike through to hold it in place. I set trap normal right side up and through a hole I have drilled in the front floor of the box I wire the leading edge of the trap tight to the floor. Now just turn the box over. Make sure the safety catch is out of the way. I also bend the end of the spring that sticks up down to give the opening a more open appearance.
The mechanics of why upside down is best.
The striking bar travels in an arc and with the civets head up it is apt to strike the civet in the nose. Any strike ahead of its ears results in the jaw pushing the civet out of the trap. This can also result in a foot catch.
Upside down the civets head is in a position closer to the what one thinks of as the bottom of the trap and the arc is longest at this point so the civet will be struck farther back. Also it can't push the civet out of the trap from that angle. If the civet has it's foot inside the trap you will catch near the shoulders which is good.
A neck catch is still common with the trap set upside down and I am still working on the best method for a run pole set as I think a neck caught civet will self dispatch better if it were to fall off a run pole.
Any chance you have a pic of that set?
Is He worthy?

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2020, 06:56:16 PM »
 :yeah:

Offline huntingfool7

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2020, 07:13:18 PM »
So they trip the pan with their back?

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2020, 07:56:21 PM »
Yea, they trip with their back or the top of their head. No pictures but I will try to take a picture tomorrow and post it.
Bruce Vandervort

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Re: Koro rat trap?
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2020, 08:30:26 PM »
I think with civets or smaller sized animals that will work great but on an animal thatís bigger like a marten you donít nail or wire the trap down but use a wedging pressure blocks to hold the trap as the koro doesnít kill them as quick. So having the leaning pole set high up and a chain connection it allows them to scramble backwards and of the running pole where they will hang in the air where the rodents canít trim the fur for you . One thing with marten that Iím finding out is they are more cautious going into a box that is longer (21Ē) then a shorter 12Ē box
Jake

 


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