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Author Topic: Kinda cold in my bag  (Read 6693 times)

Offline 2MANY

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2019, 09:14:10 AM »
A MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.

If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.

Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.

Offline farmin4u_98948

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2019, 09:37:19 AM »
Great input.   Thankx.  Going out today.  We will see how I goes
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Offline banishd

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2019, 10:07:44 AM »
Hey 2Many, send me your thermarests. I'm pretty happy with my neoair and neoair xlite pads. Also way lighter and more packable in my opinion. Work great with a ul bivy. If you are camping with a cot then why would you be using a ultralight backpacking pad anyways?

I use a homemade quilt with 7.5 oz apex insulation with neoair pad in a bivy in my tipi. Warmer than my 12 deg mummy bag ever was. If your bag has too much room or not enough room, you will be colder than you should be. Throw a some clothes in the bottom of the bag if you have too much room in the footbox, or buy a bigger bag if it fits tight. Better yet go the quilt route. Insulation works to keep you warm by trapping layers of air. Compress it and lose warmth, too much airspace and you cant get it warm to start with.

Offline baker5150

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2019, 10:23:11 AM »
A MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.

If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.

Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.

R value is R value.  It's not relative to material when comparing equal values.

I agree that Foam is more comfortable, and doesn't slip like air pads. 
Pad slipping is one of my main sleep issues when in the backcountry, but certainly not worth packing in a bulky foam pad.

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2019, 10:35:10 AM »
A MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.

If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.

Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.

R value is R value.  It's not relative to material when comparing equal values.

I agree that Foam is more comfortable, and doesn't slip like air pads. 
Pad slipping is one of my main sleep issues when in the backcountry, but certainly not worth packing in a bulky foam pad.
I'd add that a few minutes of site prep alleviates a lot of pad slip. Start with a flat spot and you don't slide around near as much.  Some simple strips of leuko tape also nukes the issue
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Offline Stein

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2019, 10:59:01 AM »
Air is a phenomenal insulator, how do you think down works?

If you sleep cold, look toward the mountaineering brands and get a better bag.  Look to what people who do winter mountaineering use, not the brands that just appeared in the last couple of years or the gram counters use.

After the October opener when things start to cool, I switch to a down -20 bag and am never cold.  I have owned it since 1999 and it is 98% as good today as it was back then.

Offline 2MANY

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2019, 11:14:40 AM »
Cold air an insulator??????...........Yea once it robs your core temperature to heat it.
Whatever.

Obviously my mules don't care about packing a cott, 2-3" foam rolled tight, and a nice fleece lined bag.
AND all cotts are leveled with tent ditched around perimeter.

Seriously........................ I sympathize with you back pack types.

Eatin paper soaked in water.
Sleeping cold, wet, and uncomfortable.
Waking up to frozen, wet boots.
Wishin you had just one roll of paper towels after each Touchbrown you score.
You guys are a hard working, tough group and deserve every success.

PS.
Don't forget your tire patch kit for when you get a flat pad.


 

Offline Pegasus

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2019, 11:17:33 AM »
No problem staying warm if you double up at night...

Offline Stein

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2019, 11:29:31 AM »
Cold air an insulator??????...........Yea once it robs your core temperature to heat it.
Whatever.

That is exactly how insulation works.  Unless you heat it, any sleeping bag, pad, shirt or whatever is cold.  Your body heat warms the trapped air, the material keeps the air from moving and you are insulated from the cold.

Trapped air is what insulates you whether you are using a foam pad, inflatable or a bunch of branches on the ground.  The more cold air that is trapped against your body, the warmer you will be.

To the OP, you could get a warmer bag, get a liner, add another pad (many use 2 or more in the winter), wear more clothes, put your bag in a bivvy sack, or try eating a bunch of fat before you go to bed.  Your body will burn it during the night and you will sleep warmer.

For me, I'll pack a couple extra ounces and have a tried and true winter bag.  20 years ago I just got tired of being cold in the winter while mountaineering in Montana and spent an enormous amount of money at the time on a quality bag.  With that bag and a bivvy, I have slept to -22 comfortable (a bit chilly but not cold enough to not sleep well).  In normal hunting temps, I am plenty warm all the time.

Offline kselkhunter

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2019, 11:30:59 AM »
Yeah, backpacking is a tradeoff in cold whether late season hunts.   Do you spend the $750 for the -40F North Face Inferno at just under 4lbs, or half that for a 6-7lb -20F or -30F cheaper bag?  For something that is too warm to really use during the summer/fall.  Or stick with a 0F or 20F bag and augment with pads, liners, and layers....


It's always a cost vs. weight vs. comfort tradeoff for backpack backcountry hunting.  And that becomes more difficult for the later seasons.


As I mentioned upthread, for snow hunts I double up my pads using both a foam pad and an air pad for both insulation and comfort.   The challenge is not rolling off them at night for me.  So I either use the ultralight cot or the bivy to put the pads and sleeping bag on/in.  The cot is always a weight tradeoff, but it's so comfy.  It's easier to justify packing the cot in archery or muzzy seasons, but for snow trips in rifle elk season I'm packing so much more extra weight (clothes, tipi/stove, etc.) sometimes I choose to save weight and leave the cot and take the bivy instead for use inside my tipi.   I don't keep my tipi stove burning all night as those titanium stoves don't keep heat throughout the night.  I burn it until I fall asleep.  So have to make sure my sleep system is sufficient to withstand the cold of the night once the stove is out.


Good luck to all that are either already out on rifle elk east or are heading out this weekend for rifle elk west. 

Offline 2MANY

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2019, 11:48:13 AM »
There is only one way to not get a cold back if you sleep on an air pad...........Sleep on your stomach.

Offline baker5150

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2019, 11:57:49 AM »
A MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.

If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.

Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.

R value is R value.  It's not relative to material when comparing equal values.

I agree that Foam is more comfortable, and doesn't slip like air pads. 
Pad slipping is one of my main sleep issues when in the backcountry, but certainly not worth packing in a bulky foam pad.
I'd add that a few minutes of site prep alleviates a lot of pad slip. Start with a flat spot and you don't slide around near as much.  Some simple strips of leuko tape also nukes the issue

Great tip with the Leuko tape.  Ill give that a shot.

I've spent a lot of time digging out tent spots.  I won't sleep a wink if i'm sloped in any direction. 

Offline jstone

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2019, 11:59:41 AM »
Tagging

Offline Alchase

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2019, 12:03:45 PM »
My 2in. self inflating pad slides in a pad pocket on my cot. It won't move at all. Air is a great insulator. If the air in your pad is cold, you will get cold from convection. That is why I use a down bag between my pad and my sleeping bag. The air inside your bag, will be warmed by heat convection from you, as long as outside air does not get in.

I can't think of much worse than trying to sleep in wet and cold clothes or Bag. Makes for one miserable night.

How do you fit in your bag.  You need some....not to much....but some dead space that allows for loft and air to heat up.  If the bag is to tight and you are flatten down the loft you loose a ton of R value.  If it is too big your body heat cannot heat the dead space.  Air is a wonderful insulator inside these bags.  I slept with a quilt and Xped down mat in the Idaho back country and was hot.....like had to stick my legs out at times to cool off. 



I have to have that dead space, my feet constantly move. I can't do mummy bags, never could stand the straight jacket feel of them. I like extra wide bags that I can put my clothes in for the next day so they are nice and warm when I need to put them on. If 30 degrees or above, I am usually sleeping in just my boxers because I sleep so hot. When it gets In the twenties I put some long underwear or fleece pajamas and a beeny or do-rag on. If it gets real cold I will put on a hoodie.
Besides between my constant flip flopping from side to side I would strangle myself with a mummy bag.

For all the reasons you speak to.....I bought a quilt!!   :chuckle: :chuckle:  In really cold temps I wear my......don't laugh.....hoodlum on my head.  Man it will flat cook your noggin.   :chuckle: :chuckle: :tup:

https://enlightenedequipment.com/hoodlum-stock/

If it keeps you warm who cares what anyone else thinks, run with it! If I was there with you I would probably snicker when you pulled it out,  :chuckle:
I would drown in sweat in that hoody.

My son puts on every piece of clothing he has before he goes to bed, then can't understand why he is so cold when he has to get out for the hunt.
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The American Soldier and Jesus Christ. One died for your freedom, the other for your soul.

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Offline Ghost Hunter

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Re: Kinda cold in my bag
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2019, 12:09:42 PM »
I tired something new this year, put a military wool blanket on my cot then then my pad then another military blanket with bag on that.

It helped quite a bit.👍

I'm pretty sure wool is the answer for everything.

 :yeah:  wool blankets, flannel sheet, and commando   ;)

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