collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?  (Read 12946 times)

Offline sandman76

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 12
  • Location: n.e.king county
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #135 on: February 16, 2020, 09:26:33 AM »
Wouldn't it be more far to say predators, poachers, and tribal insane harvest numbers are put huge dents in it ?
Yes, in fact, that's exactly what to say.  But I'd put tribal insane harvest over poachers.
Aren't they one in the same

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Offline Gringo31

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 5413
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #136 on: February 16, 2020, 07:35:30 PM »
Last I recall.....and I realize a hard number to get into print...


What is the cougar population in the state?  I realize this number is vague.  When I was in NATRS classes at WSU 20 years ago I remember them saying it was around 4K.  Today, it's hard to even get them to give a number.

IF (Big if) 4000 cats kill a deer or elk a week (lets pretend it's just deer) that is 4000X52 = 208K deer a year.  Split that however you want betwen deer and elk.  In any other category, throw in tribal harvest, normal hunting harvest, road kill etc. and you'll quickly find out that it ain't about the tribe or vehicles.  It is hard to swallow when tribes say how much deer and elk and "heritage" blah, blah but they don't back it up with real numbers to actually manage it.  I'm not trying to bring drama but just call out what is.  The real problem is management.  It's preservation vs conservation.  And....it's broken. 
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
-Ronald Reagan

Offline trophyhunt

  • Past Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 12429
  • Location: Wetside
  • Groups: Wa Wild Sheep Life Member
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #137 on: February 16, 2020, 09:18:48 PM »
Either way, how can you support the tribal kills are not a big part of the problem if they wonít give us official or real numbers? You can say that goes both ways, but the word gets out how many just one tribal member kills, and thatís more than most people kill in a life time. Makes me sick when people defend the tribal kill numbers.
ďIn common withĒ..... not so much!!

Offline hughjorgan

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 1467
  • Location: Wilbur
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #138 on: February 16, 2020, 09:33:30 PM »
I am not defending tribal take and I know exactly who you are referring to with the amount of elk taken. Then turning around selling it for jerky. Tribal take is out of the states hands, nothing we can do about it. The state can do a better job managing our herds with better predator management, not allowing over harvest by special permit and even addressing areas of high roadkill, improving habitat, etc. I think it would be better to focus on growing the herds so there is more opportunity for all of us then beating the proverbial dead horse that none of us can affect.

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 21798
  • Location: NE Corner
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #139 on: February 16, 2020, 09:35:48 PM »
more elk = more road kill   
less elk = less road kill




20 years ago I quit riding motorcycles on the hwy, too many close calls with deer.

Now I ride again on the hwy and no deer jumping out in front of me
texting from my tractor seat

Offline huntnnw

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 7711
  • Location: Spokane
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #140 on: February 16, 2020, 11:30:06 PM »
road kill in the blues is a non factor, the indians tho is another story. Its unbelievable to see. Almost all from ID

Offline Cheif

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2020
  • Posts: 58
  • Location: Montesano
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #141 on: February 17, 2020, 08:39:11 AM »
Yes shane. Does anybody know how many elk the nez pierce from Idaho are allowed in Washington's blues units? Any way we could get a close estimate ? Is there any other tribes from Oregon or Washington that's allowed  the hunt unregulated in the blues?

Offline huntnnw

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 7711
  • Location: Spokane
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #142 on: February 17, 2020, 08:49:16 AM »
Nothing I know of. Heard they could shoot whatever they want at any hour. They would drive by camp with blankets on roof of truck and rifles with spotlights .

Offline idaho guy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 1589
  • Location: hayden
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #143 on: February 17, 2020, 12:59:02 PM »
Nothing I know of. Heard they could shoot whatever they want at any hour. They would drive by camp with blankets on roof of truck and rifles with spotlights .
 

I think this is correct virtually no restrictions. They donít even have to get sheep horns plugged. Washingtonís biggest problem is four legged predators but anyone that doesnít acknowledge that native hunting is making good management impossible is clueless. Tribes have too at least cooperate with the different states on management at some point. Having one group maybe draw a tag maybe in 25 years and another get completely unregulated killing is ridiculous. I am not saying take away tribal hunting but itís long past time they need to work with the states on some common management goals.

Offline meatwhack

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 677
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #144 on: February 17, 2020, 01:32:36 PM »
The Nez Perce and Umatillas are the two tribes that hammer the mature bulls in the blues. Itís very sad to see one of the best quality herds in the country go to where it is now.

Online buglebrush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1439
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #145 on: February 17, 2020, 01:38:40 PM »
Nothing I know of. Heard they could shoot whatever they want at any hour. They would drive by camp with blankets on roof of truck and rifles with spotlights .
 

I think this is correct virtually no restrictions. They donít even have to get sheep horns plugged. Washingtonís biggest problem is four legged predators but anyone that doesnít acknowledge that native hunting is making good management impossible is clueless. Tribes have too at least cooperate with the different states on management at some point. Having one group maybe draw a tag maybe in 25 years and another get completely unregulated killing is ridiculous. I am not saying take away tribal hunting but itís long past time they need to work with the states on some common management goals.

I see no reason for them to be able to hunt any different than me off the reservation.  It's totally ridiculous!  Honestly, I try to avoid even thinking about it, because it's so infuriating.  The only way they should be able to do it is if they traveled there on foot, not using roads or trails built by the evil white man.  Wear, eat, and use only things they built themselves with no purchased components.  No Atvs, cars, camo, guns, phones, gps, tarps, tents, backpacks, phelps game calls, flashlights, etc...and even then it shouldn't be allowed. Maybe I should go to the regions of the world where my ancestors were brutally murdered and driven off their ancestral lands and demand my ancestral right to do whatever I want. :twocents:

Offline idaho guy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 1589
  • Location: hayden
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #146 on: February 17, 2020, 01:49:20 PM »
Nothing I know of. Heard they could shoot whatever they want at any hour. They would drive by camp with blankets on roof of truck and rifles with spotlights .
 

I think this is correct virtually no restrictions. They donít even have to get sheep horns plugged. Washingtonís biggest problem is four legged predators but anyone that doesnít acknowledge that native hunting is making good management impossible is clueless. Tribes have too at least cooperate with the different states on management at some point. Having one group maybe draw a tag maybe in 25 years and another get completely unregulated killing is ridiculous. I am not saying take away tribal hunting but itís long past time they need to work with the states on some common management goals.

I see no reason for them to be able to hunt any different than me off the reservation.  It's totally ridiculous!  Honestly, I try to avoid even thinking about it, because it's so infuriating.  The only way they should be able to do it is if they traveled there on foot, not using roads or trails built by the evil white man.  Wear, eat, and use only things they built themselves with no purchased components.  No Atvs, cars, camo, guns, phones, gps, tarps, tents, backpacks, phelps game calls, flashlights, etc...and even then it shouldn't be allowed. Maybe I should go to the regions of the world where my ancestors were brutally murdered and driven off their ancestral lands and demand my ancestral right to do whatever I want. :twocents:


I agree 100 percent. They should be able to do whatever on reservation but abide by rules when off the Rez. I know one and told him same thing ride your horse and use a longbow and I would feel better about it. They use 3/4 ton diesel trucks and 300 ultra mags to shoot bull elk during the rut and then later on winter range.

Offline huntnnw

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 7711
  • Location: Spokane
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #147 on: February 17, 2020, 02:43:46 PM »
What cracks me up with the blues herd is there were never elk there. White man brought the first ones in by railroad from Yellowstone in the early 1900ís. Somehow Indians have rights to shoot them . Whatís funny is I have never witnessed a Indian out of their rig hunting . Talked to a rancher one day rounding up cattle and said he loses several cows a year to being shot and left.

Offline hughjorgan

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 1467
  • Location: Wilbur
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #148 on: February 17, 2020, 04:11:35 PM »
What cracks me up with the blues herd is there were never elk there. White man brought the first ones in by railroad from Yellowstone in the early 1900ís. Somehow Indians have rights to shoot them . Whatís funny is I have never witnessed a Indian out of their rig hunting . Talked to a rancher one day rounding up cattle and said he loses several cows a year to being shot and left.

Same thing how they claim rights to hunt around Yakima and Ellensburg. If you read the WDFW historic range description for these locations they claim archeological evidence of elk being in these areas and used by natives but it is rather vague on what evidence they write of.

Offline idahohuntr

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 3060
Re: Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?
« Reply #149 on: February 18, 2020, 08:01:30 PM »
Lot of misunderstanding and misinformation in some of these posts...let me clarify a few things:

Elk are native to most of North America, including the Blue Mountains in Oregon and Washington.  Overharvest and unregulated hunting in the middle 1800's drove elk to near extinction in much of the Northwest. Elk were brought back as a result of several conservation measures including transplants from Yellowstone. 

Tribes have treaties with the United States - those treaties supersede state law and thus do not require Tribes to have any permission or cooperation with state fish and game agencies.  Those treaties reserved the right to harvest elk - nothing about them limited tribes to any particular method or technology.  The rights to hunt and fish were not limited to just the reservation boundaries...it explicitly included areas off reservation.  Nearly everything I mention above has been adjudicated in the Supreme Court.

All that said, of course co-management would be desirable for everyone, but we won't get anywhere if non-tribal attitudes are that Tribes need to follow state law or that non-tribal hunters should have the same rights and opportunities as tribal hunters.  I don't state this as my opinion of what is right/wrong - just the facts as I see them.   :twocents:   
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

WTS Vortex Viper HD 20-60x85mm Angled Spotter by jshay
[Today at 07:03:23 PM]


Wifes Boots and Blisters by ghosthunter
[Today at 07:02:59 PM]


What do you look for in a local archery pro shop? by Special T
[Today at 07:01:16 PM]


Jasonís 338-375 Ruger Build by Goshawk
[Today at 07:00:01 PM]


WTB Rascal 49cc kids quad by jshay
[Today at 06:58:58 PM]


WTB Enclosed Trailer by jshay
[Today at 06:58:47 PM]


Foxpro vs. Icotec by buglebrush
[Today at 06:52:39 PM]


Best Tripod Under $250 by adamR
[Today at 06:49:24 PM]


Cougar Full Mount- (BlackRiver Tax.) by kisfish
[Today at 06:43:22 PM]


North Idaho Whitetail (The Shed Taxidermy Studio) by grundy53
[Today at 06:41:10 PM]


Brand New Hunter and new to the area by Bango skank
[Today at 06:14:25 PM]


255/75r 17 bf Goodrich mtís on Jeep wheels by teanawayslayer
[Today at 06:09:16 PM]


WTB: T/C pistol frame by cavanaughcowboy
[Today at 06:02:07 PM]


WTS: S&W 28-2 by cavanaughcowboy
[Today at 05:50:10 PM]


Bullet Question by Sabotloader
[Today at 05:47:37 PM]


WTT Sako 85 Finnlight 270 wsm by WoodencrossIII
[Today at 05:37:03 PM]


Double-Sided Beaver Pillows by Born2late
[Today at 05:20:36 PM]


Any hunters in Gig harbor by Aginor
[Today at 05:02:08 PM]


Turkey season shut down chances. by ThurstonCokid
[Today at 04:55:20 PM]


338 375 ruger build by Goshawk
[Today at 04:51:54 PM]