collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: 9mm?  (Read 2058 times)

Offline Platensek-po

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2018
  • Posts: 210
  • Location: olympia, wa
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2020, 03:09:22 PM »
If you are worried about bears then itís better to learn how to behave in bear country first. Good food storage and buddying up are better deterrents than a gun. That said the best carry weapon is the one you are comfortable with and can use proficiently with EITHER hand. Make sure itís somewhere you can draw with either hand and can get to it quickly. A lot of those Alaskan fishing guides carrying large caliber handguns canít hit the broadside of their boat on a good day and couldnít hit anything with their off hand. You are a lot better off hitting a bear a couple times with a 9mm then missing all your shots with a large caliber handgun that you donít shoot or practice with. Again learn how to behave in bear country and you will probably be ok. For those of you bad mouthing 9mm against bears I know there is one hunter in Washington that sure is happy his buddy was carrying a 9mm last year when he was attacked by a Grizz. Being proficient, accurate, and comfortable out way caliber in my opinion. But itís just that, an opinion.
ďUnder no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.Ē

If you are not willing to die for freedom then take the word out of your vocabulary.

Offline Cougartail

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 1050
  • Location: Eastern Washington
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2020, 04:54:41 PM »
Bear load 147 grain Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman.  Fishing guide in Alaska killed a griz with this load.  Good choice if you carry a 9mm.  Cats Wolfs and bad guys many good options, look at the lucky gunner website for extensive ballistics testing.

Fluke, absolute dumb luck.  Just because it happened once doesnt mean you should bet your life on it happening again.

lol..  Phil Shoemaker (The shooter.) is a long time bear guide in SW Alaska and being a fishing guide is a sideline to his business. He knows more about killing large Brown Bears than 99.999999999% of humans on the planet.

Trust me.. it's no fluke. His daughter carries a 357 with hardcasts and is also a guide.

I remember reading about this right after it happened, and even he said that wasnt his choice of gun, but for whatever the reason was, its what he had at the time, so it was better than nothing.  Yes killing a grizz with a 9mm is s fluke, or dumb luck, whatever you want to call it.  But you go right ahead and carry a 9mm into grizz country, because it worked once, for one person.

I know a guy that was a guide on kodiak and the north gulf coast for a number of years, and a proxy hunter for natives, and still guides photographers on kodiak, just no longer guides hunters.  You wouldnt catch him out there with a 9mm.  But you do you.  Have fun.  As was said before, be sure to file the front sight off.  :tup:

lol.. Without the "Hollywood version" of Brown/Grizzlies bears nobody would pay $20,000 to hunt them.  I can always spot the newbies in Alaska.. always packing some monster firearm yet engaging in dangerous behaviors. I don't carry anything 95% of the time even when I had a Brown Bear living 100 yards out the back door.

I've been within 15 yards of Brown Bears over 20 times and have been charged twice. Still here and so are the sights on my firearms.

I'd feel perfectly safe with Phil and his 9mm unlike with some rookie with his 577 super magnum bear rifle.  :chuckle:

All illegal immigrants should be deported with a liberal under each arm.

Offline Cougartail

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 1050
  • Location: Eastern Washington
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2020, 05:06:22 PM »
..also someone has a list of 72 documented bear attacks where handguns were used for protection. The success rate was 96% and of the 5 times the 9mm was used all were successful. Five flukes? :o
All illegal immigrants should be deported with a liberal under each arm.

Offline Bango skank

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2014
  • Posts: 4020
  • Location: colville
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2020, 05:13:58 PM »
..also someone has a list of 72 documented bear attacks where handguns were used for protection. The success rate was 96% and of the 5 times the 9mm was used all were successful. Five flukes? :o

How many of those actually resulted in a dead bear?  Could be blanks making the same noise could have worked as well.  Doesnt mean its an adequate caliber for brownies.  I sure wouldnt stake my life on it.

Ive killed a black bear with a handgun (.44mag, 8ft), and an extremely large bodied whitetail(.357).  Ive seen what hadguns can do.  From the performance i got out of a 5" barrel .357 on a whitetail i sure as hell wouldnt dream of shooting a deer with a 9mm, let alone a pissed off grizz.  But as i said before, if you want to bet your life on the absolute weakest possible sidearm that anybody may consider for grizz defense, have at it.  A lot of deer have been killed with rimfire .22 also, doesnt mean its a reasonable round to have good odds of killing a deer quickly.  And if i feel the need to shoot anything to protect my life...  grizz, black bear, whatever, i dont want to wound it, hurt it, or scare it.  I want to kill it.  Right now.  A dead critter is a harmless critter.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 05:21:45 PM by Bango skank »

Offline Jonathan_S

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 8128
  • Location: Medical Lake
  • Volleyfire Brigade
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2020, 05:31:36 PM »
In most defensive situations you're probably going to get 0-1 shots. I'd much rather have it be from a pistol with some "oomph" factor or from my primary weapon.

Acting the "right way" in bear country only gets you so far  :twocents:
ďKindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.Ē

Offline Bango skank

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2014
  • Posts: 4020
  • Location: colville
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2020, 05:36:19 PM »
Anybody who thinks a 9mm is adequate, call a guide in alaska, say you want to book a grizz hunt.  Then tell them youll be using a .243.  Then post here with their response.

Offline Dadofive

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2019
  • Posts: 16
  • Location: 98290
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2020, 05:38:20 PM »

Offline Bango skank

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2014
  • Posts: 4020
  • Location: colville
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2020, 05:43:00 PM »
Here's a link after a 2 second internet search:

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pistols-or-handguns-used-to-defend-against-bear-attack-95-effective-63-cases/#axzz6Axs1CrTr

And heres a link after a 2 second internet search that shows how wolves are beneficial to all wildlife.  So what?

https://www.livingwithwolves.org/about-wolves/why-wolves-matter/

Offline Bango skank

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2014
  • Posts: 4020
  • Location: colville
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2020, 05:46:13 PM »
Really, anybody who thinks its a good idea to go hiking around grizz country with an elk quarter on their back and a 9mm on their hip, i fully encourage that behavior.  Darwinism in action, have fun.  Less pollution in the gene pool.

Offline Cougartail

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 1050
  • Location: Eastern Washington
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2020, 05:54:48 PM »
..also someone has a list of 72 documented bear attacks where handguns were used for protection. The success rate was 96% and of the 5 times the 9mm was used all were successful. Five flukes? :o

How many of those actually resulted in a dead bear?  Could be blanks making the same noise could have worked as well.  Doesnt mean its an adequate caliber for brownies.  I sure wouldnt stake my life on it.

Ive killed a black bear with a handgun (.44mag, 8ft), and an extremely large bodied whitetail(.357).  Ive seen what hadguns can do.  From the performance i got out of a 5" barrel .357 on a whitetail i sure as hell wouldnt dream of shooting a deer with a 9mm, let alone a pissed off grizz.  But as i said before, if you want to bet your life on the absolute weakest possible sidearm that anybody may consider for grizz defense, have at it.  A lot of deer have been killed with rimfire .22 also, doesnt mean its a reasonable round to have good odds of killing a deer quickly.  And if i feel the need to shoot anything to protect my life...  grizz, black bear, whatever, i dont want to wound it, hurt it, or scare it.  I want to kill it.  Right now.  A dead critter is a harmless critter.

All were hit. Four were found dead. One is unknown. If it will penetrate the skull it will kill the animal. Accuracy is far more important than excessive power that misses. A Brown Bear with its heart blown out by a 458 Win Mag will live up to 5 minutes. A 9mm to the head is instantaneous..

A 9mm with sights will feel much better than a full sized rifle that you can't shoot accurately and quickly, just so you know.. :o
All illegal immigrants should be deported with a liberal under each arm.

Offline huntnphool

  • Chance favors the prepared mind!
  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 28728
  • Location: Pacific NorthWest
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2020, 05:57:09 PM »
 Lehigh Defense makes some fantastic bullets, I use the Controlled Chaos in one of mine. :tup:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline Bango skank

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2014
  • Posts: 4020
  • Location: colville
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2020, 06:03:32 PM »
..also someone has a list of 72 documented bear attacks where handguns were used for protection. The success rate was 96% and of the 5 times the 9mm was used all were successful. Five flukes? :o

How many of those actually resulted in a dead bear?  Could be blanks making the same noise could have worked as well.  Doesnt mean its an adequate caliber for brownies.  I sure wouldnt stake my life on it.

Ive killed a black bear with a handgun (.44mag, 8ft), and an extremely large bodied whitetail(.357).  Ive seen what hadguns can do.  From the performance i got out of a 5" barrel .357 on a whitetail i sure as hell wouldnt dream of shooting a deer with a 9mm, let alone a pissed off grizz.  But as i said before, if you want to bet your life on the absolute weakest possible sidearm that anybody may consider for grizz defense, have at it.  A lot of deer have been killed with rimfire .22 also, doesnt mean its a reasonable round to have good odds of killing a deer quickly.  And if i feel the need to shoot anything to protect my life...  grizz, black bear, whatever, i dont want to wound it, hurt it, or scare it.  I want to kill it.  Right now.  A dead critter is a harmless critter.

All were hit. Four were found dead. One is unknown. If it will penetrate the skull it will kill the animal. Accuracy is far more important than excessive power that misses. A Brown Bear with its heart blown out by a 458 Win Mag will live up to 5 minutes. A 9mm to the head is instantaneous..

A 9mm with sights will feel much better than a full sized rifle that you can't shoot accurately and quickly, just so you know.. :o


Ive never been an advocate of rifles for self defense, thanks.

As i said before, ive killed 2 big game animals, a bear and s deer, point blank with handguns.  How many have you?

Offline h20hunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 18714
  • Location: Lake Stevens
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2020, 06:07:43 PM »
Paused.

If this becomes a  :pee: match we can end it now. Knock it off.

Offline konradcountry

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 544
  • Location: SouthWest
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2020, 09:51:35 PM »
I think a high cap 9mm loaded with something like xtreme penetrator is fine for Washington state. I used to carry a 9 and had a woods magazine and a street magazine.

Would I carry a 9mm in Idaho or Alaska when hunting? No way. Your odds of a grizz encounter go way up when slaughtering or carrying meat. Sure in theory you could get a headshot with a 9mm but I'd rather have something hard hitting.

I'm aware of the 9mm grizz kill and I thought that was irresponsible on the part of the guide.


Offline Jellymon

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 1317
  • Location: Spanaway
Re: 9mm?
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2020, 03:56:30 AM »
The last bear I shot with my 10mm ended like this. Killed it, skinned it, quartered it, and cooked it for me. Now how can you argue with those results? :dunno:

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Oak creek elk feeding. by Bowhunter3
[Today at 06:02:26 AM]


Out of state hunting partners by Skyvalhunter
[Today at 05:03:28 AM]


Mountain Lions on the Endangered Species List by Skyvalhunter
[Today at 05:01:02 AM]


Big Idaho ram by Skyvalhunter
[Today at 04:59:37 AM]


Smoker build #2 by Blacklab
[Today at 04:10:19 AM]


Sleeping bag and sleeping pad by spoonman
[Today at 02:40:10 AM]


Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying? by huntnnw
[Yesterday at 11:30:06 PM]


WTS: 9mm Citadel by argie1891
[Yesterday at 11:25:00 PM]


WTS: Two Winchester Model 88ís by bucksbearsbeers
[Yesterday at 11:03:13 PM]


Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank by j_h_nimrod
[Yesterday at 10:28:38 PM]


Browning Invector Plus Chokes - Free to Good home by madcow41
[Yesterday at 10:16:41 PM]


Machias's 2019/2020 Season by Machias
[Yesterday at 09:54:21 PM]


22-250 for sale. Price Drop by BigVinn
[Yesterday at 09:25:24 PM]


Garmin 64S and 4 states by buckmaster_wa
[Yesterday at 09:15:34 PM]


WTS Ravin R10 crossbow by Platensek-po
[Yesterday at 08:56:22 PM]


FS-MEC 9000 12ga reloader by Mulie87
[Yesterday at 08:50:37 PM]


Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags by hunter399
[Yesterday at 08:43:23 PM]


WTS Lowa Tibet HI GTX 11 Wide by Tooch16
[Yesterday at 08:39:49 PM]


Predator control, new tool by Jonathan_S
[Yesterday at 08:35:49 PM]


Hard bow case recommendations by MAVsled
[Yesterday at 08:34:01 PM]