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Author Topic: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank  (Read 5193 times)

Offline Skillet

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Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« on: February 16, 2020, 07:53:59 PM »
Wondering if anybody has done this?  I have a fresh oil storage tank on my boat that holds my 15-40 (about 50 gallons worth), and am plumbing in a reversible gear pump to both drain and fill my engines and gear box directly from the storage tank.

I got to thinking, with every complete change I have about 10 gallons of used oil I need to store in 5gal buckets until I get to shore to dump in the WEO tanks.  Sometimes I have two changes
worth of oil knocking around down there before I get back to town. Dealing with those buckets is a PIA (empty or full) and dumping the oil always feels like I'm throwing money away.

My question is - what's the most % of filtered WEO you comfortably add to your fuel load?  I'll dilute it 50/50 with diesel then filter it through a 10 micron Racor before I pump it onto the tanks.  I carry about 270 gallons diesel in each of two tanks in my engine room, and will plan on those being at least half full when I add the oil to the fuel.  If they're fuller, that's a bonus. So adding 5 gallons to each half-full tank (135 gallons left in each) would give me about a 4% oil-to-diesel ratio.

Engine oil up here is about $18/gal.  If I can get $3.50/gal worth of fuel additive out of each gallon and not have to deal with dumping buckets after hauling them around for weeks I'll be stoked. Even with the costs of the extra fuel filters to pre-filter the
oil, not having to deal with the hassle of carting oil up the dock will be worth it.

Thoughts?
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Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2020, 07:55:38 PM »
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Offline meatwhack

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2020, 08:06:47 PM »
I know guys that have ran it in their Cummins pretty rich. I can’t remember the exact ratio but I think it was 50/50 or maybe even a bit richer. With the ratios your talking I don’t think you’d even notice it was there.

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2020, 08:09:05 PM »
I know guys that have ran it in their Cummins pretty rich. I can’t remember the exact ratio but I think it was 50/50 or maybe even a bit richer. With the ratios your talking I don’t think you’d even notice it was there.

Maybe out the stacks.🤣
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Offline Skillet

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2020, 08:14:06 PM »
I know guys that have ran it in their Cummins pretty rich. I can’t remember the exact ratio but I think it was 50/50 or maybe even a bit richer. With the ratios your talking I don’t think you’d even notice it was there.

Maybe out the stacks.🤣

Exactly what I thought! 50/50 seems like they'd be pushing some serious soot?  I'd probably not see much additional soot at 4%, correct?
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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2020, 08:16:31 PM »
Is there any non combustible additives in your engine oil?
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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2020, 08:19:55 PM »
Not sure. When I buy engine oil in bulk, I get Chevron Delo 400.  I probably should check out the additive package.
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Offline jmscon

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2020, 08:44:00 PM »
I don’t think you’d have any issue with that ratio. It will probably help lube the upper cylinder and make your engine last a little longer.

Do you have any finer filters in your fuel system?
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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2020, 08:50:21 PM »
Yep.  10 micron Racor fuel/water filter out of the tanks to:

The main engine 5 micron fuel/water separator, then dual 2 micron filters before the injection pump.

The generator (Isuzu 4LE1) as another 10 micron fuel filter before the fuel rail.
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Offline jmscon

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2020, 08:56:46 PM »
There ya go!
Might have to up the frequency of filter changes by a little bit just because it’s used oil.
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Offline Special T

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2020, 09:24:04 PM »
I have done a fair bit of research on this issue..  on a mechanical injection  rig like yours it will work, but it comes at a cost.

You diesels are very dirty and you would need to filter much smaller than 10 microns. Napa makes a common fuel filter that is 2 micron. I run a 10 then 2 micron on my dodge and I dont use oil. The carbon and soot in the oil will eat at your  injectors.  That said I've talked with a guy that put 150k on a ford 7.3 that ran on a blend of 70% oil 30% gasoline.

Besides filtering the oil heating and settling the solids out are your best bet.

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Offline Skillet

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2020, 09:50:56 PM »
Interesting.  I just put a new pump and injectors on the main, don't want to shorten the lifespan on those.  I've got 2 micron before the pump, so it's probably safe.  But I've only got 10 micron (2 times) before my generator engine.
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Offline Special T

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2020, 09:53:06 PM »
Those guys that are running a lot of motor oil have a centrifuge  which gets sub micron particles out.
For the guy with a 4x4 or military rig with a multi fuel mix is great. Mix may not be all that great with a. Boat

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2020, 10:18:11 PM »
I have one in the gear locker, but it is kind of a bad design in that it leaked out of the bottom due to a porous casting where the oring seals up to the outlet hose.  I could have a machine shop fix it for me though.
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Offline j_h_nimrod

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2020, 10:28:38 PM »
I’m sure Petro Marine is doing better on their main tanks, but I remember in years past when I filled my separator 2-3 times between the fuel dock and Crescent >:(, with a 50 gallon fill. Gas , not diesel, that time but had some pretty thick diesel when filling the bigger boats. 

I think you should be fine at that 4% diesel:oil blend. You probably have multiple fuel fills between oil changes?  You could mix at a lower ratio if that is the case. I’d be curious about gph differences with blended vs. straight diesel, I do not think there would be a noticeable difference but it would be interesting to know.

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2020, 08:07:17 AM »
http://www.beyondbiodiesel.org

I built this filtering system for running a heater. I use a 12 micron water separator then a 2 micron. I went with common 1" thread pitch bases for the filter housings.

I dont use this for a motor, just a heater/furnace.

What I gleaned is this. Mechanical injection, turboed engines have the best luck using filtered Waste Motor Oil WMO. They seem to have the least amount of coaking on the injectors. Some guys use a regular regimen of sea foam to off set this but they are running over 50/50% which is easier in hot environments. Marine applications very low mix rates would be necessary. Hope that helps.

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2020, 09:41:19 AM »
That's awesome Special T


I'm gonna start burning a bit of oil in my old 12v CTD with the P7100 pump and I think I'll copy your filter system!   I got an old air compressor tank the pump went bad on I've been wondering what to do with it, now I know!



I've got some 55 gallon barrels full of used oil,  but stupid me forgot to put the cap back on one time and left the funnel in it...2 months worth of rain in the barrel,   any ideas?

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2020, 09:51:01 AM »
That's awesome Special T


I'm gonna start burning a bit of oil in my old 12v CTD with the P7100 pump and I think I'll copy your filter system!   I got an old air compressor tank the pump went bad on I've been wondering what to do with it, now I know!

Brush piles.😉

I've got some 55 gallon barrels full of used oil,  but stupid me forgot to put the cap back on one time and left the funnel in it...2 months worth of rain in the barrel,   any ideas?
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Offline Skillet

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2020, 10:36:41 AM »
Great input fellas, and sweet idea for the polisher SpecialT :tup:

I'll go ahead and plumb up a waste oil storage tank transfer line into my system. 

@j_h_nimrod , I've not had bad luck with Petro at all - but I will NEVER buy fuel in Elfin Cove again though.
For my last fuel load I ordered up a truck from Delta Western to deliver it at the Cold Storage Wall though.  That was really slick, and a fair bit cheaper. 
.
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Offline Special T

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2020, 10:39:04 AM »
There is a LOT more to this than just filtering and you can really get into the weeds. You can run most older engines on a 80% WMO and 20% gasoline mix. this thins out the fuel and makes the fuel rating for power easier. Makes it easier to filter, and to settle. If you have a bunch of old oil in drums only siphon off the top half. If you can warm the oil up you can accomplish a lot of the same things as mixing gasoline. That link i provided goes in to much more detail, and real word applications folk have.

one last point. the tax rules on over the road diesel in this state are not very clear on this subject. Running off road fuel is a big No No and has HUGE penalties. 10k first offense and something like 100k second. ATF burns quite well in a diesel but it also has the same dye as off road, so mixing it in with your WMO will make it appear that you are using off road. It stains the fuel filter and is quite distinct.  Some states you can get a blenders lic and keep track of your fuel mix an pay tax on what you make and consume, keeping a log of your mileage similar to a Commercial Truck daily log.  Our state doesnt have any clarification of at what % an additive becomes a fuel source/mix. So this inst an issue for your farm tractor, generator or your truck that only stays on your property. It is a bigger deal for your  pickup truck of dumptruck that dirves down the road.
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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2020, 10:43:27 AM »
I'm thinking with the cost of building a filter system, and how little diesel I do burn in my truck...I'm liking the brush fire idea better  :chuckle:

I don't wanna burn it in my tractor, it's a Kubota and all mechanical, but messing up those injectors is a bad idea.   On my cummins no big deal, I've already changed them out once.  but they are spendy $$

Offline Special T

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2020, 11:03:25 AM »
Great input fellas, and sweet idea for the polisher SpecialT :tup:

I'll go ahead and plumb up a waste oil storage tank transfer line into my system. 

@j_h_nimrod , I've not had bad luck with Petro at all - but I will NEVER buy fuel in Elfin Cove again though.
For my last fuel load I ordered up a truck from Delta Western to deliver it at the Cold Storage Wall though.  That was really slick, and a fair bit cheaper. 
.
    heating the oil makes it easier to pump and filter. The cold marine environment will make filtering harder. Since you wont be able to heat and let your oil settle you should have several in line filters starting with a 10 micron and going down. Some of the folks that only filter will put 2 used 10 micron filters in line, a new 10 then a new 2. most filters have a bypass mechanism if they clogged. the used filters gram the really gunky stuff and dont overload the filtering system. In a filter only system heat is an important componet. they make 55 gal barrel heaters. If they are black they can sit in the sun and warm the oil especially when its a hundred degree on the east side. :twocents:
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Offline Skillet

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2020, 11:27:34 AM »

 heating the oil makes it easier to pump and filter. The cold marine environment will make filtering harder. Since you wont be able to heat and let your oil settle you should have several in line filters starting with a 10 micron and going down. Some of the folks that only filter will put 2 used 10 micron filters in line, a new 10 then a new 2. most filters have a bypass mechanism if they clogged. the used filters gram the really gunky stuff and dont overload the filtering system. In a filter only system heat is an important componet. they make 55 gal barrel heaters. If they are black they can sit in the sun and warm the oil especially when its a hundred degree on the east side. :twocents:

Good input. The engine room maintains a constant 90-ish degrees while in working, and will go up a few degrees above that if I'm drawing really warm air in from outside.
 
I always drain when the engines are hot, so could start the filtering process immediately by putting the inline filter heads just downstream from the pump before the WMO storage, but there would be no thinning opportunity that way.  Letting the contaminants settle out isn't something I can count on in a boat.  Maybe I can simply run it directly from the hot engine (180+ degrees), through the gear driven pump, through a 10 then a 2 micron filter, then directly into my fuel tanks?  No storage necessary, which solves a hassle.

The pump, btw, is a reversible 12v unit built for the purpose of transferring fuel and oil. 

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/marco-up3-oil-r-on-off-integrated-3-position-switch-pump-m164-022-12

I don't think I'd do this recycled oil project if I wasn't already building a pump in/pump out oil system to make oil changes much faster already.  But since 90%of the plumbing is already there, and the additional cost of a few filter heads and some filters can be offset by the $35-ish worth of fuel I gain with every change, it seems like a no brainier.
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Offline Special T

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2020, 11:40:36 AM »
I think the 2 filter heads and the filters cost about $125. the filters arnt cheap. It would be a wise idea for your set up to filter the oil in 2 stages with the same kinds of filters you use for your diesel, that way you only need  2 series of filters if you dont have a 2 stage system now the fact that you have a reman pump might be a good time to make that upgrade.
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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2020, 11:46:09 AM »
Skillet,   do you ever use MDO fuel?   It's heavy fuel oil that's been distilled down


You could call them too, see what they say but I would anticipate they'll give you a speech about EPA and sulfur blah blah, but might also say won't hurt a thing


SISU DIESEL Ph: 207-778-3241 Grants Marine Diesel • P.O. Box 157 • Farmington Falls, ME 04940 Web site: www.sisudiesel.com • E-mail: info.sisudiesel@sisudiesel.com

Offline Skillet

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2020, 12:03:23 PM »
I think the 2 filter heads and the filters cost about $125. the filters arnt cheap. It would be a wise idea for your set up to filter the oil in 2 stages with the same kinds of filters you use for your diesel, that way you only need  2 series of filters if you dont have a 2 stage system now the fact that you have a reman pump might be a good time to make that upgrade.

My fuel for the main is currently run through three stages of filtration (10, 5, 2 micron) each with a water trap.  The final two stages have a water barrier element.

For the genset, in party as a result of this discussion, I've decided I'm adding in another Racor that I can get down to 2 micron filters for. So it will be a three stages of filtration there as well.  The final stage (engine mounted filter) I need to research to see if I can get a 2 micron filter for.  If I can, I'll put the 5 micron in my middle stage and basically have the same filtration as the main then (10-5-2), but with only two water traps and a single water barrier membrane in that system.  After last year's fuel issue, I'll be erring on the side of caution.

Storing the used oil is a hassle, so I'm wondering if any contaminants that make it past the first dual-filter "hot" filtration system like yours (steps down to 2 micron, yes?) and into the diesel tank could cause issues later.  Before it reached either engine, it would have to go through three more filters, down to 2 micron for the main and (hopefully) 2 micron for the Genny. 

I'll pony up even if it's a wash in $.  That storing used oil on board and hauling it up the docks to the waste oil tanks, only to find them full and locked up (#!$&/:*#!!!)  is worth sidestepping if I can.
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Offline Skillet

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2020, 12:13:38 PM »
Skillet,   do you ever use MDO fuel?   It's heavy fuel oil that's been distilled down


You could call them too, see what they say but I would anticipate they'll give you a speech about EPA and sulfur blah blah, but might also say won't hurt a thing


SISU DIESEL Ph: 207-778-3241 Grants Marine Diesel • P.O. Box 157 • Farmington Falls, ME 04940 Web site: www.sisudiesel.com • E-mail: info.sisudiesel@sisudiesel.com

I haven't, and I haven't seen any for sale around here.  I'll call Delta Western about it and see if they have it.  I only have about 1400 gallons of fuel tankage on the boat however, and try to never coast into town with a shot glass of fuel left.  So most of the time I'm buying 1000-ish gallons at a time. That might be worth it for Delta to divert a truck and bring me some MDO, but not sure.

I know those guys in Maine, they're the ones that sold the boats previous owner the engine.  They're alright, but not too eager to support a guy in AK after the sale.  Since AGCO bought Sisu and installed these engines in Massey Fergusen tractors and Hesston mowers,  I buy everything I can from the AGCO dealer in Pasco now.  Specifically a parts guy named Joe Zilar there,  he's a champ.  :tup:
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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2020, 01:03:05 PM »
I think the 2 filter heads and the filters cost about $125. the filters arnt cheap. It would be a wise idea for your set up to filter the oil in 2 stages with the same kinds of filters you use for your diesel, that way you only need  2 series of filters if you dont have a 2 stage system now the fact that you have a reman pump might be a good time to make that upgrade.

My fuel for the main is currently run through three stages of filtration (10, 5, 2 micron) each with a water trap.  The final two stages have a water barrier element.

For the genset, in party as a result of this discussion, I've decided I'm adding in another Racor that I can get down to 2 micron filters for. So it will be a three stages of filtration there as well.  The final stage (engine mounted filter) I need to research to see if I can get a 2 micron filter for.  If I can, I'll put the 5 micron in my middle stage and basically have the same filtration as the main then (10-5-2), but with only two water traps and a single water barrier membrane in that system.  After last year's fuel issue, I'll be erring on the side of caution.

Storing the used oil is a hassle, so I'm wondering if any contaminants that make it past the first dual-filter "hot" filtration system like yours (steps down to 2 micron, yes?) and into the diesel tank could cause issues later.  Before it reached either engine, it would have to go through three more filters, down to 2 micron for the main and (hopefully) 2 micron for the Genny. 

I'll pony up even if it's a wash in $.  That storing used oil on board and hauling it up the docks to the waste oil tanks, only to find them full and locked up (#!$&/:*#!!!)  is worth sidestepping if I can.
 
It sounds like you could just  the 10 & 2 micron on the oil and be fine. 1 because you mix will be so diluted, and 2 because  it will be filtered a second time after it has had a chance to really thin out. Makes more sense as you have explained your set up.

I would do it, as ive probably had dirtier fuel from the station than what yours could be.  Even if you dont use the same filter it might be smart to at least use the same bases, bore and thread pitch. they should be able to tell you what it is from your current filter part numbers.
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Offline Skillet

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2020, 01:43:57 PM »
Roger.  The only spin-on filter I have for my fuel system currently is the small format engine-mounted Genny unit (it's right at 2" in diameter and only 2.5" long, to small for this job), so matching existing filter types is a non-issue.  All of my fuel filtration (beside final Genny filter) is cartridge style.  I've got some room for a few more filters in my rack, no problem there.

The primary is a dual Dahl setup shown here (setup in parallel, not series, so I can change filters cartridges while running),




and the rest are the finer cartidge/bowl setups similar to these, but bolted through from the bottom of the bowl to the filter heads. Pretty application specific.  And expensive.



Considering you've already coughed up the part numbers for your system, I'll probably just copy that.   :tup:
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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2020, 09:09:51 PM »
So you have 10gal of oil every, what? 300 hours?
Or 2 oil changes, that's 20 gal and if you burn it as fuel, it saves you $70. That's significant.
NOT! 
What would you do that?  How much fuel you burn average?  20 gph?
So for every oil change you're burning 6000gal min or over $20k in fuel. Or $40k in fuel and you're going to save $70 and feed your engine crap?  Sorry, filtered crap...
That's like pushing dog sh_t thru a screen door and calling it pâté !  Nope, still dog sh_t.
Even if I'm off by 100% on my numbers, you're only saving like 1/10 of 1% on your fuel cost. Buy a caddy so you don't have to carry the buckets or pay some kid $10 to carry them or something. Don't see how contaminated you can make your fuel.

JMO

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2020, 01:54:41 AM »
So you have 10gal of oil every, what? 300 hours?
Or 2 oil changes, that's 20 gal and if you burn it as fuel, it saves you $70. That's significant.
NOT! 
What would you do that?  How much fuel you burn average?  20 gph?
So for every oil change you're burning 6000gal min or over $20k in fuel. Or $40k in fuel and you're going to save $70 and feed your engine crap?  Sorry, filtered crap...
That's like pushing dog sh_t thru a screen door and calling it pâté !  Nope, still dog sh_t.
Even if I'm off by 100% on my numbers, you're only saving like 1/10 of 1% on your fuel cost. Buy a caddy so you don't have to carry the buckets or pay some kid $10 to carry them or something. Don't see how contaminated you can make your fuel.

JMO

Your numbers are a little off.  300 hours gets me about 10 gals of used 15-40 oil.  I also burn about 1125 gallons over that time, at 3.75 gph avg last year.  Took it pretty easy.  If I'm running hard all over, I get closer to 5 gph average.

Been doing a lot of chatting with folks since I started this convo.  It's very common on the bigger boats to filter and burn their oil. It goes through a 10 micron filter before it hits the tank, then it goes through a series of filters down to 2 microns and water separators before it gets to the injection pump.

If I had a common rail engine, I wouldn't consider it.  No oil or fuel is clean until it's filtered, IMHO.  At 2 microns, however, it is basically polished, and good enough for my Tier II mechanical injection pump.

To use your analogy, it's dog poop that has been composted - and is now rich fertilizer.   :chuckle:

In the end, it's far less about the cost savings, if I actually realize any, than it is about not storing used oil in buckets, and then finding a place to dump it.
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