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Author Topic: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank  (Read 1374 times)

Offline j_h_nimrod

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2020, 10:28:38 PM »
Im sure Petro Marine is doing better on their main tanks, but I remember in years past when I filled my separator 2-3 times between the fuel dock and Crescent >:(, with a 50 gallon fill. Gas , not diesel, that time but had some pretty thick diesel when filling the bigger boats. 

I think you should be fine at that 4% diesel:oil blend. You probably have multiple fuel fills between oil changes?  You could mix at a lower ratio if that is the case. Id be curious about gph differences with blended vs. straight diesel, I do not think there would be a noticeable difference but it would be interesting to know.

Offline Special T

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2020, 08:07:17 AM »
http://www.beyondbiodiesel.org

I built this filtering system for running a heater. I use a 12 micron water separator then a 2 micron. I went with common 1" thread pitch bases for the filter housings.

I dont use this for a motor, just a heater/furnace.

What I gleaned is this. Mechanical injection, turboed engines have the best luck using filtered Waste Motor Oil WMO. They seem to have the least amount of coaking on the injectors. Some guys use a regular regimen of sea foam to off set this but they are running over 50/50% which is easier in hot environments. Marine applications very low mix rates would be necessary. Hope that helps.

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Offline KFhunter

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2020, 09:41:19 AM »
That's awesome Special T


I'm gonna start burning a bit of oil in my old 12v CTD with the P7100 pump and I think I'll copy your filter system!   I got an old air compressor tank the pump went bad on I've been wondering what to do with it, now I know!



I've got some 55 gallon barrels full of used oil,  but stupid me forgot to put the cap back on one time and left the funnel in it...2 months worth of rain in the barrel,   any ideas?
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Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2020, 09:51:01 AM »
That's awesome Special T


I'm gonna start burning a bit of oil in my old 12v CTD with the P7100 pump and I think I'll copy your filter system!   I got an old air compressor tank the pump went bad on I've been wondering what to do with it, now I know!

Brush piles.😉

I've got some 55 gallon barrels full of used oil,  but stupid me forgot to put the cap back on one time and left the funnel in it...2 months worth of rain in the barrel,   any ideas?
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Offline Skillet

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2020, 10:36:41 AM »
Great input fellas, and sweet idea for the polisher SpecialT :tup:

I'll go ahead and plumb up a waste oil storage tank transfer line into my system. 

@j_h_nimrod , I've not had bad luck with Petro at all - but I will NEVER buy fuel in Elfin Cove again though.
For my last fuel load I ordered up a truck from Delta Western to deliver it at the Cold Storage Wall though.  That was really slick, and a fair bit cheaper. 
.
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Offline Special T

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2020, 10:39:04 AM »
There is a LOT more to this than just filtering and you can really get into the weeds. You can run most older engines on a 80% WMO and 20% gasoline mix. this thins out the fuel and makes the fuel rating for power easier. Makes it easier to filter, and to settle. If you have a bunch of old oil in drums only siphon off the top half. If you can warm the oil up you can accomplish a lot of the same things as mixing gasoline. That link i provided goes in to much more detail, and real word applications folk have.

one last point. the tax rules on over the road diesel in this state are not very clear on this subject. Running off road fuel is a big No No and has HUGE penalties. 10k first offense and something like 100k second. ATF burns quite well in a diesel but it also has the same dye as off road, so mixing it in with your WMO will make it appear that you are using off road. It stains the fuel filter and is quite distinct.  Some states you can get a blenders lic and keep track of your fuel mix an pay tax on what you make and consume, keeping a log of your mileage similar to a Commercial Truck daily log.  Our state doesnt have any clarification of at what % an additive becomes a fuel source/mix. So this inst an issue for your farm tractor, generator or your truck that only stays on your property. It is a bigger deal for your  pickup truck of dumptruck that dirves down the road.
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

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Offline KFhunter

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2020, 10:43:27 AM »
I'm thinking with the cost of building a filter system, and how little diesel I do burn in my truck...I'm liking the brush fire idea better  :chuckle:

I don't wanna burn it in my tractor, it's a Kubota and all mechanical, but messing up those injectors is a bad idea.   On my cummins no big deal, I've already changed them out once.  but they are spendy $$
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Offline Special T

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2020, 11:03:25 AM »
Great input fellas, and sweet idea for the polisher SpecialT :tup:

I'll go ahead and plumb up a waste oil storage tank transfer line into my system. 

@j_h_nimrod , I've not had bad luck with Petro at all - but I will NEVER buy fuel in Elfin Cove again though.
For my last fuel load I ordered up a truck from Delta Western to deliver it at the Cold Storage Wall though.  That was really slick, and a fair bit cheaper. 
.
    heating the oil makes it easier to pump and filter. The cold marine environment will make filtering harder. Since you wont be able to heat and let your oil settle you should have several in line filters starting with a 10 micron and going down. Some of the folks that only filter will put 2 used 10 micron filters in line, a new 10 then a new 2. most filters have a bypass mechanism if they clogged. the used filters gram the really gunky stuff and dont overload the filtering system. In a filter only system heat is an important componet. they make 55 gal barrel heaters. If they are black they can sit in the sun and warm the oil especially when its a hundred degree on the east side. :twocents:
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline Skillet

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2020, 11:27:34 AM »

 heating the oil makes it easier to pump and filter. The cold marine environment will make filtering harder. Since you wont be able to heat and let your oil settle you should have several in line filters starting with a 10 micron and going down. Some of the folks that only filter will put 2 used 10 micron filters in line, a new 10 then a new 2. most filters have a bypass mechanism if they clogged. the used filters gram the really gunky stuff and dont overload the filtering system. In a filter only system heat is an important componet. they make 55 gal barrel heaters. If they are black they can sit in the sun and warm the oil especially when its a hundred degree on the east side. :twocents:

Good input. The engine room maintains a constant 90-ish degrees while in working, and will go up a few degrees above that if I'm drawing really warm air in from outside.
 
I always drain when the engines are hot, so could start the filtering process immediately by putting the inline filter heads just downstream from the pump before the WMO storage, but there would be no thinning opportunity that way.  Letting the contaminants settle out isn't something I can count on in a boat.  Maybe I can simply run it directly from the hot engine (180+ degrees), through the gear driven pump, through a 10 then a 2 micron filter, then directly into my fuel tanks?  No storage necessary, which solves a hassle.

The pump, btw, is a reversible 12v unit built for the purpose of transferring fuel and oil. 

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/marco-up3-oil-r-on-off-integrated-3-position-switch-pump-m164-022-12

I don't think I'd do this recycled oil project if I wasn't already building a pump in/pump out oil system to make oil changes much faster already.  But since 90%of the plumbing is already there, and the additional cost of a few filter heads and some filters can be offset by the $35-ish worth of fuel I gain with every change, it seems like a no brainier.
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Offline Special T

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2020, 11:40:36 AM »
I think the 2 filter heads and the filters cost about $125. the filters arnt cheap. It would be a wise idea for your set up to filter the oil in 2 stages with the same kinds of filters you use for your diesel, that way you only need  2 series of filters if you dont have a 2 stage system now the fact that you have a reman pump might be a good time to make that upgrade.
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2020, 11:46:09 AM »
Skillet,   do you ever use MDO fuel?   It's heavy fuel oil that's been distilled down


You could call them too, see what they say but I would anticipate they'll give you a speech about EPA and sulfur blah blah, but might also say won't hurt a thing


SISU DIESEL Ph: 207-778-3241 Grants Marine Diesel P.O. Box 157 Farmington Falls, ME 04940 Web site: www.sisudiesel.com E-mail: info.sisudiesel@sisudiesel.com
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Offline Skillet

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2020, 12:03:23 PM »
I think the 2 filter heads and the filters cost about $125. the filters arnt cheap. It would be a wise idea for your set up to filter the oil in 2 stages with the same kinds of filters you use for your diesel, that way you only need  2 series of filters if you dont have a 2 stage system now the fact that you have a reman pump might be a good time to make that upgrade.

My fuel for the main is currently run through three stages of filtration (10, 5, 2 micron) each with a water trap.  The final two stages have a water barrier element.

For the genset, in party as a result of this discussion, I've decided I'm adding in another Racor that I can get down to 2 micron filters for. So it will be a three stages of filtration there as well.  The final stage (engine mounted filter) I need to research to see if I can get a 2 micron filter for.  If I can, I'll put the 5 micron in my middle stage and basically have the same filtration as the main then (10-5-2), but with only two water traps and a single water barrier membrane in that system.  After last year's fuel issue, I'll be erring on the side of caution.

Storing the used oil is a hassle, so I'm wondering if any contaminants that make it past the first dual-filter "hot" filtration system like yours (steps down to 2 micron, yes?) and into the diesel tank could cause issues later.  Before it reached either engine, it would have to go through three more filters, down to 2 micron for the main and (hopefully) 2 micron for the Genny. 

I'll pony up even if it's a wash in $.  That storing used oil on board and hauling it up the docks to the waste oil tanks, only to find them full and locked up (#!$&/:*#!!!)  is worth sidestepping if I can.
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Offline Skillet

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2020, 12:13:38 PM »
Skillet,   do you ever use MDO fuel?   It's heavy fuel oil that's been distilled down


You could call them too, see what they say but I would anticipate they'll give you a speech about EPA and sulfur blah blah, but might also say won't hurt a thing


SISU DIESEL Ph: 207-778-3241 Grants Marine Diesel P.O. Box 157 Farmington Falls, ME 04940 Web site: www.sisudiesel.com E-mail: info.sisudiesel@sisudiesel.com

I haven't, and I haven't seen any for sale around here.  I'll call Delta Western about it and see if they have it.  I only have about 1400 gallons of fuel tankage on the boat however, and try to never coast into town with a shot glass of fuel left.  So most of the time I'm buying 1000-ish gallons at a time. That might be worth it for Delta to divert a truck and bring me some MDO, but not sure.

I know those guys in Maine, they're the ones that sold the boats previous owner the engine.  They're alright, but not too eager to support a guy in AK after the sale.  Since AGCO bought Sisu and installed these engines in Massey Fergusen tractors and Hesston mowers,  I buy everything I can from the AGCO dealer in Pasco now.  Specifically a parts guy named Joe Zilar there,  he's a champ.  :tup:
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Offline Special T

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2020, 01:03:05 PM »
I think the 2 filter heads and the filters cost about $125. the filters arnt cheap. It would be a wise idea for your set up to filter the oil in 2 stages with the same kinds of filters you use for your diesel, that way you only need  2 series of filters if you dont have a 2 stage system now the fact that you have a reman pump might be a good time to make that upgrade.

My fuel for the main is currently run through three stages of filtration (10, 5, 2 micron) each with a water trap.  The final two stages have a water barrier element.

For the genset, in party as a result of this discussion, I've decided I'm adding in another Racor that I can get down to 2 micron filters for. So it will be a three stages of filtration there as well.  The final stage (engine mounted filter) I need to research to see if I can get a 2 micron filter for.  If I can, I'll put the 5 micron in my middle stage and basically have the same filtration as the main then (10-5-2), but with only two water traps and a single water barrier membrane in that system.  After last year's fuel issue, I'll be erring on the side of caution.

Storing the used oil is a hassle, so I'm wondering if any contaminants that make it past the first dual-filter "hot" filtration system like yours (steps down to 2 micron, yes?) and into the diesel tank could cause issues later.  Before it reached either engine, it would have to go through three more filters, down to 2 micron for the main and (hopefully) 2 micron for the Genny. 

I'll pony up even if it's a wash in $.  That storing used oil on board and hauling it up the docks to the waste oil tanks, only to find them full and locked up (#!$&/:*#!!!)  is worth sidestepping if I can.
 
It sounds like you could just  the 10 & 2 micron on the oil and be fine. 1 because you mix will be so diluted, and 2 because  it will be filtered a second time after it has had a chance to really thin out. Makes more sense as you have explained your set up.

I would do it, as ive probably had dirtier fuel from the station than what yours could be.  Even if you dont use the same filter it might be smart to at least use the same bases, bore and thread pitch. they should be able to tell you what it is from your current filter part numbers.
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline Skillet

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Re: Adding used engine oil to the diesel tank
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2020, 01:43:57 PM »
Roger.  The only spin-on filter I have for my fuel system currently is the small format engine-mounted Genny unit (it's right at 2" in diameter and only 2.5" long, to small for this job), so matching existing filter types is a non-issue.  All of my fuel filtration (beside final Genny filter) is cartridge style.  I've got some room for a few more filters in my rack, no problem there.

The primary is a dual Dahl setup shown here (setup in parallel, not series, so I can change filters cartridges while running),




and the rest are the finer cartidge/bowl setups similar to these, but bolted through from the bottom of the bowl to the filter heads. Pretty application specific.  And expensive.



Considering you've already coughed up the part numbers for your system, I'll probably just copy that.   :tup:
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