collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Another Mule deer study  (Read 4784 times)

Offline Skyvalhunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 14542
  • Location: The valley/Methow
Another Mule deer study
« on: January 05, 2021, 06:17:36 AM »
Well here we go with another study. Funny how the WDFW always blames habitat loss and fires as the decline in mule deer population. Not one mention of predators.
http://www.ifiberone.com/columbia_basin/helicopters-to-capture-mule-deer-in-chelan-kittitas-and-okanogan-counties-in-mid-january/article_86740132-4eeb-11eb-a09d-23bad7ae6b2e.html

Offline Smokepole

  • Kevin Miller
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 2110
  • Location: Upper Skyberian
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2021, 06:45:45 AM »
Well that reporting is pretty sparse.  No quotes from anyone from the WDFW.  It doesn't cite their website.  Doesn't name the project, or who is managing it. 

My observation in central Washington after a devastating wildfire in 2015 was that predators cleaned house the next two winters.  Wolves and cougars.  The deer had little winter habitat and we had a tough winter with subzero temps and deep snow.  The deer would move to shelter, where they could eat buds and find water -- and the cats slaughtered them.  During the summer, the deer didn't have as much cover -- so the wolves left carcasses all over. 

There was lots of fur and bone here in the winters of 2016-2017, but not any more.   :twocents:

Offline Rainier10

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 10555
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2021, 07:43:12 AM »
I was contacted by the WDFW this weekend about the study.  It is similar to the one they did last year on my place where they netted deer with helicopter gunners, ear tagged them and put collars on them.  I own winter range and they are looking to see where the migration corridors are for the deer.  He said the deer from last year had a pretty high mortality rate and some of the kills could be pinned directly on predators.  The collars give location updates every four hours.  If a collar doesn't move for 8 or 12 hours they send a bio to see what happened and why the deer isn't moving.  With rapid response they can see if it was a predator kill, poaching or natural causes.  I told the bio I had at least 200 deer on my place and they were doing very well.  I have seen more does with twins in December than I have since the fire in 2015.  I have shot 7 coyotes on my place this year in an effort to control the predation of fawns.  He said that just a couple canyons over from me they found a collared doe the week before that had been killed by a cougar.  Last year the first month after the collars went on a doe ended up dead in a creek bed adjacent to my property.  They thought it might have been a cougar kill but the coyotes had gotten to it also so it was tough to tell.  There was a collared wolf in the area but the deer collar and wolf collar were not in close proximity at any point.  The wolf was old and had left the pack, it has since died.

I think WDFW knows predators are a problem but they are having difficulties getting quotas increased when our beloved governor keeps rejecting their proposals to increase quotas.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Skyvalhunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 14542
  • Location: The valley/Methow
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2021, 07:58:58 AM »
I guess I would like to see the results of their study without having to do another public records request like I have been. I mean its the sportsmen that help pay for these studies.

Offline Rainier10

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 10555
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2021, 08:05:00 AM »
I think they are trying to understand the migration pattern and buy the land that is in that path so it doesn't get developed.  Deer migration is like the salmon returning to spawn if you put up a dam in the river it blocks the salmon.  If you put a housing developement or apple orchard in the middle of the deer migration route that is no good either.

I have been buying up land for 5 years to save the winter ground.  I was contacted by a solar company and offered a lot of money to allow them to fence off my land and cover it in solar panels.  I said no because that was hundreds of acres of ground that hundreds of deer and hundreds of elk winter on.

It is important work they are doing and gives them the data to prove that certain habitat is vital to protect.  There is tons of ground around me but only certain areas hold the deer and elk.  Those are the areas they want to confirm and protect.  And of course if they can confirm that predators are impacting the population adversely that helps with their argument to increase quotas. 

I think most hunters believe predators are a problem.  If you have data showing that 100 deer received collars and 40 of them ended up dead due to predators you can easily connect the dots.  The same can be said if 40 of them end up hit by cars or poached.  They need to put up fencing if car impacts are the issue or get more field officers if poaching is the issue.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline boneaddict

  • Site Sponsor
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 46455
  • Location: Selah, Washington
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2021, 08:07:41 AM »
                                Zzzzzzzzzzzz
                      zzzzzz
                 Zzz
           zzzz
   Zzzzz
  Z
 8)

Offline Rainier10

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 10555
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2021, 08:09:39 AM »
I guess I would like to see the results of their study without having to do another public records request like I have been. I mean its the sportsmen that help pay for these studies.
I think this is an extension of last years study.  I feel like these are normally a two to three deal if they can continue to get the funding to keep the study going.  A one year study could be flawed due to a whole bunch of variables.  If they can spread it out you can eliminate some anomalies.  The collars are supposed to last for four years.  They put collars on deer last year and are doing it again this year so they should have 5 years worth of data in four years when this latest round of collars quite working.

It's a slow process but also very thorough, good information hopefully leads to good decisions.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline bearhunter99

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 2184
  • Location: Monitor/Yakima
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2021, 08:17:54 AM »
My only issue with this is the timing.  I get it that they are trying to figure out migration routes but why can't they put the collars on in the summer when they aren't stressed by the cold and snow already?  Last year we saw them with the helicopter and by the time they were done the deer were beat and heaving with mouths open.  How many die from running them up and down the ridges in the snow? 

On another note, we have a doe that hangs out around our house that has a collar and tags in both ears.  If they have a collar on it why do they need the tags in both ears as well?  She just looks defeated and sad, both ears are always drooping and never perk up, which I assume is from the ear tags?

Maybe somebody else can shed better light on it but I don't get the timing or the need for tags when they have a collar that can be used as identification. :dunno:
RIP Colockumelk   :salute:

"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." Winston Churchill



Genesis 27:3
Now therefore take, I pray thee, thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me some venison

Offline Sandberm

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 2786
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2021, 08:49:10 AM »
Interesting Rainier10. Thanks for sharing your perspective and for helping the deer. The allure of green energy money is real and tempting.

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 26272
  • Location: NE Corner
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2021, 08:55:41 AM »
My only issue with this is the timing.  I get it that they are trying to figure out migration routes but why can't they put the collars on in the summer when they aren't stressed by the cold and snow already?  Last year we saw them with the helicopter and by the time they were done the deer were beat and heaving with mouths open.  How many die from running them up and down the ridges in the snow? 

On another note, we have a doe that hangs out around our house that has a collar and tags in both ears.  If they have a collar on it why do they need the tags in both ears as well?  She just looks defeated and sad, both ears are always drooping and never perk up, which I assume is from the ear tags?

Maybe somebody else can shed better light on it but I don't get the timing or the need for tags when they have a collar that can be used as identification. :dunno:


May -  big fat and pregger
June - dropping fawns
July - nursing
Aug-  its hot
Sep - hunting starts
Oct - hunting
Nov - late hunts

Dec - hmm, not much going on? Holidays
Jan - good time to dart/net
Feb - winter stress sets in
March - winter stress and starvation setting in, very low energy reserves
April - deer are most vulnerable to starvation as reserves are used up and they transition rumen to green up
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 09:19:19 AM by KFhunter »

Offline Rainier10

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 10555
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2021, 08:58:30 AM »
The winter roundup is because that is when they are concentrated on winter ground and easy to get to. The 2-300 hundred deer on my place become 50-60 in summer and fall. KFs post has the timing broken down well.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Karl Blanchard

  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 8021
  • Location: Selah, WA
  • Jonathan_S hunting apparel prostaff
  • Groups: Sitka Gear Fan Boy for LIFE
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2021, 08:59:40 AM »
Thanks Rainier! You are doing important stuff up there. People like to just wag fingers at predators but USABLE winter range and preserving migration corridors is as important as it gets. Look at what lengths WY is going to in an attempt to preserve those corridors and habitat. They are way ahead of the curve when it comes to being proactive with mule deer preservation.

As for the timing of netting and collaring, you can't capture deer when they are on top of a mountain in the rocks, brush, and timber. Its more safe for all involved to net on the winter range down in the open sage country. This is a good time to do it as the weather is mild right now and critters look to be healthy considering our drought year we have had  :twocents:
It is foolish and wrong to mourn these men.  Rather, we should thank god that such men lived.  -General George S. Patton

Aaron's Profile:  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=2875
Aaron's Posts:  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2875
Aaron's Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/aaron.blanchard.94

Offline Karl Blanchard

  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 8021
  • Location: Selah, WA
  • Jonathan_S hunting apparel prostaff
  • Groups: Sitka Gear Fan Boy for LIFE
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2021, 09:00:39 AM »
You guys type faster than me  :chuckle:
It is foolish and wrong to mourn these men.  Rather, we should thank god that such men lived.  -General George S. Patton

Aaron's Profile:  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=2875
Aaron's Posts:  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2875
Aaron's Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/aaron.blanchard.94

Offline Rainier10

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 10555
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2021, 09:02:36 AM »
Not sure on the reason for tags in both ears and the collar. The tags are easy to read on my game cameras. Doe #308 is the one that died near my place. When they found her the collar was there but both ear tags were missing, probably eaten or torn off by the predators.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Bushcraft

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 940
  • Location: Olympic Peninsula
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, HHC, WWC, WDAC
Re: Another Mule deer study
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2021, 09:05:33 AM »
I think they are trying to understand the migration pattern and buy the land that is in that path so it doesn't get developed.  Deer migration is like the salmon returning to spawn if you put up a dam in the river it blocks the salmon.  If you put a housing developement or apple orchard in the middle of the deer migration route that is no good either.

I have been buying up land for 5 years to save the winter ground.  I was contacted by a solar company and offered a lot of money to allow them to fence off my land and cover it in solar panels.  I said no because that was hundreds of acres of ground that hundreds of deer and hundreds of elk winter on.

It is important work they are doing and gives them the data to prove that certain habitat is vital to protect.  There is tons of ground around me but only certain areas hold the deer and elk.  Those are the areas they want to confirm and protect.  And of course if they can confirm that predators are impacting the population adversely that helps with their argument to increase quotas. 

I think most hunters believe predators are a problem.  If you have data showing that 100 deer received collars and 40 of them ended up dead due to predators you can easily connect the dots.  The same can be said if 40 of them end up hit by cars or poached.  They need to put up fencing if car impacts are the issue or get more field officers if poaching is the issue.

Thank you for being a steward of the land our wildlife needs to survive. Well done.  :tup:
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide. 

Work hard. Hunt hard. Lift other hunters up.

*Proud supporter of NRA, NRA-ILA SCI, SCIF, SCI-PAC, NSSF, RMEF, RMGA, MDF, WSF, DU, WWA, HHC, WWC

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Headed to Unit 39 Idaho Mule Deer by Weathy30by
[Today at 12:12:22 AM]


Salmon is set by huntnphool
[Yesterday at 11:23:48 PM]


Seeking answers to colville turkey hunting by Bogie85
[Yesterday at 11:21:08 PM]


Razor clams by hhack
[Yesterday at 11:12:36 PM]


WTS 44 mag brass by Black Ghost
[Yesterday at 10:32:46 PM]


Pointing Lab Puppies for Sale by jackelope
[Yesterday at 10:29:51 PM]


WTS Brass .308 .243 30-06 by Black Ghost
[Yesterday at 10:26:13 PM]


FOR SALE: 5.7X28 AMMO $60 a box, 10 boxes. by Slow-drifter
[Yesterday at 10:15:05 PM]


WTS: Various bullets .243 .284 .277 by Black Ghost
[Yesterday at 10:08:44 PM]


Buffalo Bore 9mm outdoorsman by Shoofly09
[Yesterday at 09:43:59 PM]


WTS Nosler 6.5 129 Accubond Long Range Bullets by wasalmonslayer
[Yesterday at 08:52:39 PM]


Early application numbers from Montana by jstone
[Yesterday at 08:42:17 PM]


WTB: Springfield xd, xdm, or possibly a shield by Harleysboss
[Yesterday at 08:26:02 PM]


2021 Turkeys!!! Let see those birds. by KFhunter
[Yesterday at 08:17:05 PM]


Norma 270WSM Brass by bambam3960
[Yesterday at 08:14:30 PM]


ALASKA DIY MOOSE by BA Mongor
[Yesterday at 08:02:18 PM]


Morels by Norman89
[Yesterday at 07:10:01 PM]


Have to rant by snake
[Yesterday at 07:07:30 PM]


Registered Hereford heifer fs by PolarBear
[Yesterday at 06:50:05 PM]


Early Season Alpine Lakes Fishing by AL WORRELLS KID
[Yesterday at 06:34:27 PM]