collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA  (Read 8414 times)

Offline AKBowman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 1469
  • Location: Kent, WA
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2021, 04:46:12 PM »
Well are salmon in bass stomachs?

They did this same thing to Lake Sammamish in 2019 and it obviously crushed the bass fishing there. As part of the approval process for LOAF they were supposed to examine the stomach contents of the fish caught there. They have YET to produce these results and are at it now on Lake WA without publicly producing results from Sammamish.

They are also supposed to stop the netting if 3 native steelhead get caught but I would be shocked if they did.

Itís just funny to me the talk of ďnon-nativeĒ fish and bass have been there for over 100 years. Arguably Bass are as native to Lake WA or possibly more so than released smolt.

I guess my point is itís the process that is the issue here. Not that if one person has a preference for bass or salmon.
"when the time comes for a man to look his maker in the eye, where a better place could a meeting be held...than in the wilderness"

Offline huntnphool

  • Chance favors the prepared mind!
  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 30820
  • Location: Pacific NorthWest
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2021, 04:49:10 PM »
So you are happy the state is allowing them to decimate a sport fishery with near zero evidence to show the targeted species has any negative impact on Salmon runs?

I am going to assume this is because you are a salmon fisherman? So am I. The difference is I am not silly enough to think that if Salmon were ever to come back that I would actually be able to fish them, let alone retain them here.

 My first post wasnít clear enough? Yes, I support this.

Not clearing how/why? Your statement is the same as me stating I would support them clear cutting the greenbelt behind your house.

 Iím not understanding your question here. :dunno:

 Spiny rays are far more predatory feeders and prolific than trout and salmon....plenty of studyís for you to research. In fact, Iíve seen bass lures shaped and colored to mimic trout/salmon....Iíve never seen a salmon lure that imitates a bass!

 There is a reason the state uses rotenone in lakes from time to time, and yet spiny rays somehow continue to get out of control again years later...without needing help/plants.

 To my knowledge this net process has not been done in the lake before, I could be wrong, but the other option is to use retenone which would have a far greater effect on the spiny rays. Would you rather it come to that? :twocents:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline Colville

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 627
  • Location: Snohomish
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2021, 04:57:51 PM »
What options can be managed easily?  There are protections in law for Water foul, for pinnipeds, for native fish species.  They can't make the water colder.

By the way, when I was a kid, you could take and keep 5 Sockeye on lake WA.  It is a potentially sustainable fishery in theory.  If some of the experiments you might want to run are excessively expensive or take difficult legal permissions, why not try things that are both legal and cheap?  Bass aren't native, they eat small fish.  Will this move the needle?  Dunno. But it's a very low cost, no legal hurdle attempt to see if you can make an impact.  I'm  hard pressed to see it as a negative.  Now if it doesn't move the needle, you abandon it.   There are others who would call for the bass to go as protection for native amphibians as well.   

I know it gores some oxen. But the state of the salmon return is garbage. It could disappear while we "study" how many smolt bass eat. One can't get the bass out of Lake WA no matter what they do so restoring bass to normal after this takes zero effort.  I guess the perch fisherman will have some upside here.

Offline duckmen1

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 1902
  • Location: outdoors
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2021, 05:00:51 PM »
Warm water fisheries will be devastated due to this. And I am positive this won't have a great enough effect to open up the sockeye fishery due to this netting proccess. Sure bass eat smolt. No denial. But you will see this fishery taken away and still won't see a salmon fishery in return.
Economy from warm water fisheries will drop in the area for sure. Then it will be said that fisherman aren't a economic benefit. But its not there fault every last fishery is taken from them.

Offline huntnphool

  • Chance favors the prepared mind!
  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 30820
  • Location: Pacific NorthWest
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2021, 05:05:55 PM »
Warm water fisheries will be devastated due to this. And I am positive this won't have a great enough effect to open up the sockeye fishery due to this netting proccess. Sure bass eat smolt. No denial. But you will see this fishery taken away and still won't see a salmon fishery in return.
Economy from warm water fisheries will drop in the area for sure. Then it will be said that fisherman aren't a economic benefit. But its not there fault every last fishery is taken from them.

 I fished for sockeye for years, lots of notes taken that I can look at. Isnít it interesting that when enjoying the lake today, tubing, jet skiing, Seafair, the water temp is roughly the same year to year? :rolleyes:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline Colville

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 627
  • Location: Snohomish
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2021, 05:09:13 PM »
Destroyed?   You can't get spiny rayed fish out of almost any body of water of any real size.  Bass will take a few years but they'll blast right back into place. I fish perch a few years after the retenone treatments in "trout" lakes.  I just see a risk reward discussion.  Risk of losing bass in lake WA, Zero.  Risk of losing salmon, significant.  One of these is native and irreplaceable, one you can't get rid of no matter what you do.

Offline huntnphool

  • Chance favors the prepared mind!
  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 30820
  • Location: Pacific NorthWest
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2021, 05:10:19 PM »
Destroyed?   You can't get spiny rayed fish out of almost any body of water of any real size.  Bass will take a few years but they'll blast right back into place. I fish perch a few years after the retenone treatments in "trout" lakes.  I just see a risk reward discussion.  Risk of losing bass in lake WA, Zero.  Risk of losing salmon, significant.  One of these is native and irreplaceable, one you can't get rid of no matter what you do.

 Bingo!
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline AKBowman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 1469
  • Location: Kent, WA
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2021, 05:10:39 PM »
From how I interpreted reading through all the documents that were in place for when they netted Sammamish the idea was to sample stomach contents.

They havenít produced those results. Had they produced them and it was found that Bass mainly predated on Salmon Smolt in the spring than so be it.

I also realize that unless they poison the lake they wonít completely remove the bass. They will come back. Especially as the water continues to warm in the summer. The lake is becoming better bass habitat as the water warms and worse salmon habitat. Couple that with the thousands of docks lining the lake, light pollution, abundance of sea lions and insert about a dozen other factors.

I definitely do NOT hate the Indians. I donít hate the player I hate the game.

Mostly I just wanted to bring attention to this for those arenít on the water in the next 8 weeks and would care/appreciate knowing what is currently going on.
"when the time comes for a man to look his maker in the eye, where a better place could a meeting be held...than in the wilderness"

Offline huntnphool

  • Chance favors the prepared mind!
  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 30820
  • Location: Pacific NorthWest
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2021, 05:12:42 PM »
Mostly I just wanted to bring attention to this for those arenít on the water in the next 8 weeks and would care/appreciate knowing what is currently going on.

 :tup:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline Colville

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 627
  • Location: Snohomish
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2021, 05:19:51 PM »
AK,  I'm 100% with you on the lack of production of data. WDFW hides almost 100% of it's wolf data for instance.  I don't think the data collection should just be handed over to the tribes, because these are not just tribal issues.  However it seems odd to run a one year test.  The variables that affect a salmon return are so numerous that a one year test is silly.  To really measure you'd probably want 5 or more years. If they did just one year on Sammamish, then I'm with you... it's stupid.  Ocean conditions could easily offset a year's reduction in bass.  That doesn't really mean I've come to your point of view, I'd support a 5 year or more, but a 1 year test seems very unlikely to deliver data you can rely on.

Offline duckmen1

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 1902
  • Location: outdoors
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2021, 05:36:52 PM »
Destroyed?   You can't get spiny rayed fish out of almost any body of water of any real size.  Bass will take a few years but they'll blast right back into place. I fish perch a few years after the retenone treatments in "trout" lakes.  I just see a risk reward discussion.  Risk of losing bass in lake WA, Zero.  Risk of losing salmon, significant.  One of these is native and irreplaceable, one you can't get rid of no matter what you do.
So I guess this proves my point a little. They will lower bass populations this year. Fishing will suck. And by the time bass recover as they will they will be back to eating smolt and you still won't see a salmon fishery. Due to the amount of time it takes to recover. :chuckle: then bass guys are frustrated and its a loss all the way around.
For sure it may make a short term difference a little but we need management in many ways including seals and sea lions at the mouth of the lake along the locks.

Offline AKBowman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 1469
  • Location: Kent, WA
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2021, 05:50:21 PM »
AK,  I'm 100% with you on the lack of production of data. WDFW hides almost 100% of it's wolf data for instance.  I don't think the data collection should just be handed over to the tribes, because these are not just tribal issues.  However it seems odd to run a one year test.  The variables that affect a salmon return are so numerous that a one year test is silly.  To really measure you'd probably want 5 or more years. If they did just one year on Sammamish, then I'm with you... it's stupid.  Ocean conditions could easily offset a year's reduction in bass.  That doesn't really mean I've come to your point of view, I'd support a 5 year or more, but a 1 year test seems very unlikely to deliver data you can rely on.

If I remember correctly the objective wasnít to study returns possibly related to the one year netting rather it was to ďsampleĒ the number of bass in a given area as well to sample the stomach contents during that time period when smolt were moving through. They did not publicly publish the ďsampleĒ numbers that were taken. Small bits of data has been shown but not nearly all. They never published the stomach content findings. Also I know that in Sammamish (and so far in Lk WA) they strategically placed the nets in areas where and when the bass would move into them as bass was a target.

Itís hard to figure how it can be a ďsampleĒ when they are rotating the nets around the lake and returning to areas 3 and 4 times that have already been netted. Thatís a big arse ďsampleĒ.

It seems if they are going to be allowed to essentially commercial fish a public sport fishery on a public lake without the publicís approval/knowledge than that group needs to be held responsible for, at the least, publicly producing their results of the objectives that were set in the first place. If they canít produce a study showing bass are even a small factor in Smolt survival than why continue with this process?
"when the time comes for a man to look his maker in the eye, where a better place could a meeting be held...than in the wilderness"

Offline huntnphool

  • Chance favors the prepared mind!
  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 30820
  • Location: Pacific NorthWest
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2021, 05:57:26 PM »
Destroyed?   You can't get spiny rayed fish out of almost any body of water of any real size.  Bass will take a few years but they'll blast right back into place. I fish perch a few years after the retenone treatments in "trout" lakes.  I just see a risk reward discussion.  Risk of losing bass in lake WA, Zero.  Risk of losing salmon, significant.  One of these is native and irreplaceable, one you can't get rid of no matter what you do.
So I guess this proves my point a little. They will lower bass populations this year. Fishing will suck. And by the time bass recover as they will they will be back to eating smolt and you still won't see a salmon fishery. Due to the amount of time it takes to recover. :chuckle: then bass guys are frustrated and its a loss all the way around.
For sure it may make a short term difference a little but we need management in many ways including seals and sea lions at the mouth of the lake along the locks.

 The same can be said about wolves and mule deer. Are we to simply say screw it and let the deer herds disappear?
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Online 10Key

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 798
  • Location: Bothell
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2021, 06:00:24 PM »
They will recover, either naturally or how they originally got there. Sounds to me like another instance of addressing a problem that has many more complex and costly solutions. Too bad really, my family and I really enjoy bass fishing Lake Washington.

Offline snake

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 525
  • Location: Washington
Re: Commercial Gill Nets Target BASS in Lake WA
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2021, 06:07:45 PM »
Sounds good to me, bass have infested most bodies of water. Get rid of a few.

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

F/S: free standing pine cabinet by Jpmiller
[Today at 06:52:01 AM]


Hammer Bullets....Anyone have experience with them on game? by CaNINE
[Today at 06:46:20 AM]


Leftover Multi Season Deer by Atlas1993
[Today at 06:43:42 AM]


F/S: Router mill by lokidog
[Today at 06:38:18 AM]


Dialed in by MIKEXRAY
[Today at 06:36:28 AM]


F/S: Router Table**SOLD** by Zuus
[Today at 06:35:14 AM]


FS: Christensen Ridgeline 300 win mag (pics added) by jrebel
[Today at 06:09:16 AM]


Montana Antlerless by Bigshooter
[Today at 02:55:43 AM]


Griffon/English Springer Spaniel puppies by MountainsEdgeRanch
[Yesterday at 10:30:52 PM]


1960 WA Upland Regs by Remnar
[Yesterday at 09:56:51 PM]


Rifle do dads by finnman
[Yesterday at 09:49:09 PM]


Watershed tickets for sale by John B.
[Yesterday at 09:34:24 PM]


FS ~ Polished Cow Horns by Trapper John
[Yesterday at 09:18:57 PM]


Northwest Beagles by brokentrail
[Yesterday at 09:18:20 PM]


MA 10 by metlhead
[Yesterday at 09:11:19 PM]


Kahr CM9 by bustedoldman
[Yesterday at 08:43:40 PM]


FS: Ruger 44 carbine for sale or trade by Parasite
[Yesterday at 08:11:55 PM]


WTS: Franchi Affinity Elite by TT13
[Yesterday at 08:07:52 PM]


WTB tw200 by hiway_99
[Yesterday at 07:44:49 PM]


WTT MMP 50 cal sabot for Harvester by Emptyhanded
[Yesterday at 07:17:44 PM]