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Author Topic: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause  (Read 25907 times)

Offline Pathfinder101

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2021, 03:05:50 PM »
Not enough wolves yet to kill as many elk calves in the Blues that have been killed lately. Bears and cats are the primary culprits, I would bet the farm on that. Bears are absolute assassins in the spring time when the calves and fawns start dropping. They sniff them out like bloodhounds.

A few years ago I would have agreed with this statement.  Not sure now.  I think the wolves are reaching the point where they are affecting the populations.  Bears and cats have always been here.  The wolves are new.  The elk population has declined severely the last 5 years.  Can't be a coincidence...  Perhaps this study will shed some light on the real numbers.  :dunno:
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.  That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

Offline bigmacc

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2021, 03:12:37 PM »
Itís good to hear there will be some landowners to give input, at least you anyway. Iím not sure how the rest feel.  The blues elk problem is the biggest let down this state has let happen!!
\
I would argue that hoof disease, ignored by the WDFW for 20 years, is the biggest but they're both huge disappointments.

I would agree with both of you, the Blues elk herd, hoof rot AND the Methow mule deer herd, all huge disappointments as far as how they were handled. Bears, cats and wolves (IMHO, in that order, so far) are wiping out our herds overall, I think wolves will take the top spot soon, as they keep populating unchecked. We are finding lots of partially eaten fawns laying around along with fresh bear scat just full of bone and fawn hair about this time in the Methow. Like some have said, those bears wake up craving protein and are attracted to fawns AND elk calves like a magnet.

Good luck to you Landowner, its a start and I hope you and the others can make a difference, at least it seems as though they may lend an ear to folks who live in the area and spend time there and that is huge :tup:


Online Woodchuck

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2021, 03:28:28 PM »
Not enough wolves yet to kill as many elk calves in the Blues that have been killed lately. Bears and cats are the primary culprits, I would bet the farm on that. Bears are absolute assassins in the spring time when the calves and fawns start dropping. They sniff them out like bloodhounds.

A few years ago I would have agreed with this statement.  Not sure now.  I think the wolves are reaching the point where they are affecting the populations.  Bears and cats have always been here.  The wolves are new.  The elk population has declined severely the last 5 years.  Can't be a coincidence...  Perhaps this study will shed some light on the real numbers.  :dunno:
:yeah: Nailed it.
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Offline 3dvapor

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2021, 03:53:06 PM »
I was there last year calling for a lucky tag holder and it sounded like a national geographic film with all the wolves howling.  BOTH in the Dayton and Wenaha.  I had them all around me near the sawtooth.  I saw a set of tracks that didn't look believable even for a wolf.  The rest of them looked normal dog size.  SCARY chit in the dark walking out.  Lol

Offline Snakeriver

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2021, 04:00:49 PM »
Saw a pack of 18 near sawtooth last fall during elk season.

Offline bobdog86

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2021, 06:08:14 PM »
Unfortunately these grateful, well meaning, meetings, tracking collaring research efforts are all a waste of time unless everyone is willing to address the gorilla in the room. The group of people no one is willing to address or are able to change is the Tribal impact on the elk in the SE Blues...period. When the state purchases private land, leading us to believe they are helping the hunters and wild life, it just opens more available opportunities for hunters other than Washington Licensed hunters. No one is willing or able to address. Look at the grouse flats/4-0 acquisition...took a terrible beating last year. Sad, but nothing will happen

Offline millerwheeler

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2021, 06:14:47 PM »
Unfortunately these grateful, well meaning, meetings, tracking collaring research efforts are all a waste of time unless everyone is willing to address the gorilla in the room. The group of people no one is willing to address or are able to change is the Tribal impact on the elk in the SE Blues...period. When the state purchases private land, leading us to believe they are helping the hunters and wild life, it just opens more available opportunities for hunters other than Washington Licensed hunters. No one is willing or able to address. Look at the grouse flats/4-0 acquisition...took a terrible beating last year. Sad, but nothing will happen

Spot on , and to add Iím no predator lover  and they should be hunted all of them but the natives are #1 issue

Online JimmyHoffa

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2021, 08:30:16 PM »
Unfortunately these grateful, well meaning, meetings, tracking collaring research efforts are all a waste of time unless everyone is willing to address the gorilla in the room. The group of people no one is willing to address or are able to change is the Tribal impact on the elk in the SE Blues...period. When the state purchases private land, leading us to believe they are helping the hunters and wild life, it just opens more available opportunities for hunters other than Washington Licensed hunters. No one is willing or able to address. Look at the grouse flats/4-0 acquisition...took a terrible beating last year. Sad, but nothing will happen

Spot on , and to add Iím no predator lover  and they should be hunted all of them but the natives are #1 issue
Don't Indians usually go for the biggest bulls, though?  I guess it is possible that bulls get harvested to such an extent that the bull/cow ratio is out of whack and causes the calf crop to fall short.  It kind of sounds like whatever the problem is likes to focus on calves.

Offline bobdog86

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2021, 09:19:47 PM »
Unfortunately these grateful, well meaning, meetings, tracking collaring research efforts are all a waste of time unless everyone is willing to address the gorilla in the room. The group of people no one is willing to address or are able to change is the Tribal impact on the elk in the SE Blues...period. When the state purchases private land, leading us to believe they are helping the hunters and wild life, it just opens more available opportunities for hunters other than Washington Licensed hunters. No one is willing or able to address. Look at the grouse flats/4-0 acquisition...took a terrible beating last year. Sad, but nothing will happen

Spot on , and to add Iím no predator lover  and they should be hunted all of them but the natives are #1 issue
Don't Indians usually go for the biggest bulls, though?  I guess it is possible that bulls get harvested to such an extent that the bull/cow ratio is out of whack and causes the calf crop to fall short.  It kind of sounds like whatever the problem is likes to focus on calves.
Well, good question....who really knows what they shoot? Thatís the point.....I would imagine if anyone does actually know what the harvest numbers are, sex calves cows bulls. That info will never be public, and doubtful if accurate. And do you think the stress of being chased, hunted, stressed from the time they are born......what does that do to the survival rate?

Offline bornhunter

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2021, 09:35:27 PM »
Unfortunately these grateful, well meaning, meetings, tracking collaring research efforts are all a waste of time unless everyone is willing to address the gorilla in the room. The group of people no one is willing to address or are able to change is the Tribal impact on the elk in the SE Blues...period. When the state purchases private land, leading us to believe they are helping the hunters and wild life, it just opens more available opportunities for hunters other than Washington Licensed hunters. No one is willing or able to address. Look at the grouse flats/4-0 acquisition...took a terrible beating last year. Sad, but nothing will happen

 :yeah:

Offline millerwheeler

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2021, 06:02:47 AM »
Unfortunately these grateful, well meaning, meetings, tracking collaring research efforts are all a waste of time unless everyone is willing to address the gorilla in the room. The group of people no one is willing to address or are able to change is the Tribal impact on the elk in the SE Blues...period. When the state purchases private land, leading us to believe they are helping the hunters and wild life, it just opens more available opportunities for hunters other than Washington Licensed hunters. No one is willing or able to address. Look at the grouse flats/4-0 acquisition...took a terrible beating last year. Sad, but nothing will happen

Spot on , and to add Iím no predator lover  and they should be hunted all of them but the natives are #1 issue
Don't Indians usually go for the biggest bulls, though?  I guess it is possible that bulls get harvested to such an extent that the bull/cow ratio is out of whack and causes the calf crop to fall short.  It kind of sounds like whatever the problem is likes to focus on calves.

Well have you seen what a large set of antlers sel
For nowadays?? Or the meat they sell
Off ?? To say itís out of wake is an understatement ,and think about it they donít have weapon restrictions or even have to worry about any enforcement for anything itís a free for all like a kid in a cookie jar

Offline gee_unit360

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2021, 06:06:55 AM »
I was there last year calling for a lucky tag holder and it sounded like a national geographic film with all the wolves howling.  BOTH in the Dayton and Wenaha.  I had them all around me near the sawtooth.  I saw a set of tracks that didn't look believable even for a wolf.  The rest of them looked normal dog size.  SCARY chit in the dark walking out.  Lol

Did he get his bull?

Offline 3dvapor

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2021, 07:56:28 AM »
Yeah, really nice 6x8.  It was a great hunt but not easy. 

Offline Pathfinder101

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2021, 08:32:34 AM »
Yeah, really nice 6x8.  It was a great hunt but not easy.

Good to hear.  I'm a little nervous to draw a tag right now.  Been trying for 20 years...
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.  That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2021, 09:40:25 AM »
Not enough wolves yet to kill as many elk calves in the Blues that have been killed lately. Bears and cats are the primary culprits, I would bet the farm on that. Bears are absolute assassins in the spring time when the calves and fawns start dropping. They sniff them out like bloodhounds.

A few years ago I would have agreed with this statement.  Not sure now.  I think the wolves are reaching the point where they are affecting the populations.  Bears and cats have always been here.  The wolves are new.  The elk population has declined severely the last 5 years.  Can't be a coincidence...  Perhaps this study will shed some light on the real numbers.  :dunno:
   

 :yeah: I dont know that much about the blues but Idahos elk population plummeted AFTER the wolves showed up in large numbers. I am long time hound hunter and my experience has been we have a lot LESS lions and bears than we had in the 90s but the elk started dissapearing in the 2000s after the wolf showed up in numbers. I have to blame the wolf as primary problem but they all eat elk. The native harvest has to be bad just based on hearsay (I dont know any personally)of a few tribal members that are not shooting calves they are shooting big bulls and I dont want to even guess how many. Not sure there is even a solution to that one but just adding my 2cents the wolf was the x-factor in our elk herds. We can argue is it just the addition of a new predator on top of the existing ones and other scenarios all day. All I know is when wolves show up in large numbers the elk disapear in Idaho   

 


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