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Author Topic: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow  (Read 2797 times)

Offline Machias

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2021, 10:05:11 AM »
The part about them deciding to just take the land back is not true at all.  What bank would make a loan on land that you are just leasing that could be taken back on a whim?  None.  The land that I and the bank own is my land that happens to be in the Reservation boundary, but is completely my land.  It cannot be "taken back".  The deed says nothing about leasing or anything else, it's private property.
Fred Moyer


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Offline idahohuntr

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2021, 10:36:33 AM »
The reason there are privately held lands within the bounds of a reservation is a result of the Dawes Act (~1887), as noted above.  This act conveyed a lot of tribal reservation lands to individual tribal members, who were then able to sell to non-indians if/as they desired.  The Dawes Act was a policy intended to breakup/assimilate Tribes with western culture and that is why you have so many non-tribal members who own land within reservations like the CDA or Nez Perce.  Simple fee owned lands within a reservation boundary are not subject to any action by the Tribe...they can buy them from a willing seller and convert them to trust lands if they desire, but no Tribe is going to 'take' those lands.  Tribes do sometimes lease trust land, so if someone leases land from a Tribe then yes, the Tribe could theoretically kick you off at some point.   

For the hunting fee...Those mentioning they would just not show up to Tribal court...jurisdiction can get messy...but if you hunt on reservation lands, don't pay the fee, and get caught, as a non-indian I'd say you will most likely end up in federal court. I'm not that familiar with CDA reservation hunting regs, but I have no doubt on trust lands the Tribe can enforce whatever they want and if you break the law (hunt without paying the fee) I'd guess its actually going to be a lot more severe penalty than if you just walked over to someones private ranch and shot a deer off their property.   :twocents:


 
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Offline Machias

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2021, 11:32:11 AM »
For the hunting fee...Those mentioning they would just not show up to Tribal court...jurisdiction can get messy...but if you hunt on reservation lands, don't pay the fee, and get caught, as a non-indian I'd say you will most likely end up in federal court. I'm not that familiar with CDA reservation hunting regs, but I have no doubt on trust lands the Tribe can enforce whatever they want and if you break the law (hunt without paying the fee) I'd guess its actually going to be a lot more severe penalty than if you just walked over to someones private ranch and shot a deer off their property.   :twocents:

 :yeah:
Fred Moyer


History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

Offline meatwhack

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2021, 03:13:50 PM »
The reason there are privately held lands within the bounds of a reservation is a result of the Dawes Act (~1887), as noted above.  This act conveyed a lot of tribal reservation lands to individual tribal members, who were then able to sell to non-indians if/as they desired.  The Dawes Act was a policy intended to breakup/assimilate Tribes with western culture and that is why you have so many non-tribal members who own land within reservations like the CDA or Nez Perce.  Simple fee owned lands within a reservation boundary are not subject to any action by the Tribe...they can buy them from a willing seller and convert them to trust lands if they desire, but no Tribe is going to 'take' those lands.  Tribes do sometimes lease trust land, so if someone leases land from a Tribe then yes, the Tribe could theoretically kick you off at some point.   

For the hunting fee...Those mentioning they would just not show up to Tribal court...jurisdiction can get messy...but if you hunt on reservation lands, don't pay the fee, and get caught, as a non-indian I'd say you will most likely end up in federal court. I'm not that familiar with CDA reservation hunting regs, but I have no doubt on trust lands the Tribe can enforce whatever they want and if you break the law (hunt without paying the fee) I'd guess its actually going to be a lot more severe penalty than if you just walked over to someones private ranch and shot a deer off their property.   :twocents:

When you say “reservation lands” are you talking about all land within the reservation boundary which would include a large amount of private land that the Indians have no control over, or the actual tribal owned land within the reservation.

Offline Pathfinder101

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2021, 03:30:10 PM »
Ok,, I blanked in WA.  All up to IDFG now...  c'mon Idaho..... :camp:
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Offline jowings22

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2021, 03:51:43 PM »
 :yeah:

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2021, 04:22:10 PM »
The reason there are privately held lands within the bounds of a reservation is a result of the Dawes Act (~1887), as noted above.  This act conveyed a lot of tribal reservation lands to individual tribal members, who were then able to sell to non-indians if/as they desired.  The Dawes Act was a policy intended to breakup/assimilate Tribes with western culture and that is why you have so many non-tribal members who own land within reservations like the CDA or Nez Perce.  Simple fee owned lands within a reservation boundary are not subject to any action by the Tribe...they can buy them from a willing seller and convert them to trust lands if they desire, but no Tribe is going to 'take' those lands.  Tribes do sometimes lease trust land, so if someone leases land from a Tribe then yes, the Tribe could theoretically kick you off at some point.   

For the hunting fee...Those mentioning they would just not show up to Tribal court...jurisdiction can get messy...but if you hunt on reservation lands, don't pay the fee, and get caught, as a non-indian I'd say you will most likely end up in federal court. I'm not that familiar with CDA reservation hunting regs, but I have no doubt on trust lands the Tribe can enforce whatever they want and if you break the law (hunt without paying the fee) I'd guess its actually going to be a lot more severe penalty than if you just walked over to someones private ranch and shot a deer off their property.   :twocents:

When you say “reservation lands” are you talking about all land within the reservation boundary which would include a large amount of private land that the Indians have no control over, or the actual tribal owned land within the reservation.
   

Thats what I have been wondering about. The way I read it the language from the tribe says ALL land within the reservation boundarys which would include private land. I am not sure I am interpreting it right and  I hear different viewpoints on this but if you end up in tribal court I don't think it matters how anyone interprets it other than the tribe because you will be in THEIR court. Not showing up to court I think would end very poorly. If anyone has any kind of clarity on this it would be great since I hunt some open private timberground within the reservation and I cant seem to get a straight answer. I guess I could call the tribe but i prefer the expert advice of internet forums  :chuckle: I am guessing there is a lot of people that wont take it serious and a bunch of tickets written. Im already hearing a lot of redneck bar stool opinions of basically "screw em" i am not paying. It will be an interesting year . Anyways if anyone knows factual information on private ground within the reservation i would appreciate it   

Offline idaho guy

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2021, 04:25:23 PM »
Back on topic I am in for deer and will draw-unlimited tag  :chuckle:

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2021, 04:38:41 PM »
I’m in for elk, deer, and antelope

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2021, 05:12:37 PM »
The reason there are privately held lands within the bounds of a reservation is a result of the Dawes Act (~1887), as noted above.  This act conveyed a lot of tribal reservation lands to individual tribal members, who were then able to sell to non-indians if/as they desired.  The Dawes Act was a policy intended to breakup/assimilate Tribes with western culture and that is why you have so many non-tribal members who own land within reservations like the CDA or Nez Perce.  Simple fee owned lands within a reservation boundary are not subject to any action by the Tribe...they can buy them from a willing seller and convert them to trust lands if they desire, but no Tribe is going to 'take' those lands.  Tribes do sometimes lease trust land, so if someone leases land from a Tribe then yes, the Tribe could theoretically kick you off at some point.   

For the hunting fee...Those mentioning they would just not show up to Tribal court...jurisdiction can get messy...but if you hunt on reservation lands, don't pay the fee, and get caught, as a non-indian I'd say you will most likely end up in federal court. I'm not that familiar with CDA reservation hunting regs, but I have no doubt on trust lands the Tribe can enforce whatever they want and if you break the law (hunt without paying the fee) I'd guess its actually going to be a lot more severe penalty than if you just walked over to someones private ranch and shot a deer off their property.   :twocents:

When you say “reservation lands” are you talking about all land within the reservation boundary which would include a large amount of private land that the Indians have no control over, or the actual tribal owned land within the reservation.
   

Thats what I have been wondering about. The way I read it the language from the tribe says ALL land within the reservation boundarys which would include private land. I am not sure I am interpreting it right and  I hear different viewpoints on this but if you end up in tribal court I don't think it matters how anyone interprets it other than the tribe because you will be in THEIR court. Not showing up to court I think would end very poorly. If anyone has any kind of clarity on this it would be great since I hunt some open private timberground within the reservation and I cant seem to get a straight answer. I guess I could call the tribe but i prefer the expert advice of internet forums  :chuckle: I am guessing there is a lot of people that wont take it serious and a bunch of tickets written. Im already hearing a lot of redneck bar stool opinions of basically "screw em" i am not paying. It will be an interesting year . Anyways if anyone knows factual information on private ground within the reservation i would appreciate it
While a bit off topic, the Idaho draw is at least a week out...so we've got some time to kill  :chuckle:

Reservation lands are the lands specifically held in trust for the Tribe and land ownership maps will show them as tribal trust lands. Usually these lands are within the bounds of an Indian Reservation.  It does not include private or public lands, even if they are within the boundary of the reservation. 

I'm unaware of anything that would give the Tribe jurisdiction over non-tribal lands within a reservation.  I do not know precisely what the CDA Tribe position may be (or what they are asserting), but I hunt a ton of non-tribal land within the boundaries of Indian Reservations in Idaho all the time and the Tribe has literally zero jurisdiction.  IF you are hunting (or wanting to hunt) on CDA Tribe trust land, you'd better follow their rules.  If you are not, and you are not an enrolled tribal member, you follow the IDFG rules.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline idaho guy

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2021, 05:49:34 PM »
The reason there are privately held lands within the bounds of a reservation is a result of the Dawes Act (~1887), as noted above.  This act conveyed a lot of tribal reservation lands to individual tribal members, who were then able to sell to non-indians if/as they desired.  The Dawes Act was a policy intended to breakup/assimilate Tribes with western culture and that is why you have so many non-tribal members who own land within reservations like the CDA or Nez Perce.  Simple fee owned lands within a reservation boundary are not subject to any action by the Tribe...they can buy them from a willing seller and convert them to trust lands if they desire, but no Tribe is going to 'take' those lands.  Tribes do sometimes lease trust land, so if someone leases land from a Tribe then yes, the Tribe could theoretically kick you off at some point.   

For the hunting fee...Those mentioning they would just not show up to Tribal court...jurisdiction can get messy...but if you hunt on reservation lands, don't pay the fee, and get caught, as a non-indian I'd say you will most likely end up in federal court. I'm not that familiar with CDA reservation hunting regs, but I have no doubt on trust lands the Tribe can enforce whatever they want and if you break the law (hunt without paying the fee) I'd guess its actually going to be a lot more severe penalty than if you just walked over to someones private ranch and shot a deer off their property.   :twocents:

When you say “reservation lands” are you talking about all land within the reservation boundary which would include a large amount of private land that the Indians have no control over, or the actual tribal owned land within the reservation.
   

Thats what I have been wondering about. The way I read it the language from the tribe says ALL land within the reservation boundarys which would include private land. I am not sure I am interpreting it right and  I hear different viewpoints on this but if you end up in tribal court I don't think it matters how anyone interprets it other than the tribe because you will be in THEIR court. Not showing up to court I think would end very poorly. If anyone has any kind of clarity on this it would be great since I hunt some open private timberground within the reservation and I cant seem to get a straight answer. I guess I could call the tribe but i prefer the expert advice of internet forums  :chuckle: I am guessing there is a lot of people that wont take it serious and a bunch of tickets written. Im already hearing a lot of redneck bar stool opinions of basically "screw em" i am not paying. It will be an interesting year . Anyways if anyone knows factual information on private ground within the reservation i would appreciate it
While a bit off topic, the Idaho draw is at least a week out...so we've got some time to kill  :chuckle:

Reservation lands are the lands specifically held in trust for the Tribe and land ownership maps will show them as tribal trust lands. Usually these lands are within the bounds of an Indian Reservation.  It does not include private or public lands, even if they are within the boundary of the reservation. 

I'm unaware of anything that would give the Tribe jurisdiction over non-tribal lands within a reservation.  I do not know precisely what the CDA Tribe position may be (or what they are asserting), but I hunt a ton of non-tribal land within the boundaries of Indian Reservations in Idaho all the time and the Tribe has literally zero jurisdiction.  IF you are hunting (or wanting to hunt) on CDA Tribe trust land, you'd better follow their rules.  If you are not, and you are not an enrolled tribal member, you follow the IDFG rules.
   

 :tup: Thanks! Very helpful and that's what I was thinking and hoping

Offline Jimmy33

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2021, 09:02:48 PM »
Drew Elk last year...im in for deer and pronghorn


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Offline Machias

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2021, 09:02:09 PM »
The reason there are privately held lands within the bounds of a reservation is a result of the Dawes Act (~1887), as noted above.  This act conveyed a lot of tribal reservation lands to individual tribal members, who were then able to sell to non-indians if/as they desired.  The Dawes Act was a policy intended to breakup/assimilate Tribes with western culture and that is why you have so many non-tribal members who own land within reservations like the CDA or Nez Perce.  Simple fee owned lands within a reservation boundary are not subject to any action by the Tribe...they can buy them from a willing seller and convert them to trust lands if they desire, but no Tribe is going to 'take' those lands.  Tribes do sometimes lease trust land, so if someone leases land from a Tribe then yes, the Tribe could theoretically kick you off at some point.   

For the hunting fee...Those mentioning they would just not show up to Tribal court...jurisdiction can get messy...but if you hunt on reservation lands, don't pay the fee, and get caught, as a non-indian I'd say you will most likely end up in federal court. I'm not that familiar with CDA reservation hunting regs, but I have no doubt on trust lands the Tribe can enforce whatever they want and if you break the law (hunt without paying the fee) I'd guess its actually going to be a lot more severe penalty than if you just walked over to someones private ranch and shot a deer off their property.   :twocents:

When you say “reservation lands” are you talking about all land within the reservation boundary which would include a large amount of private land that the Indians have no control over, or the actual tribal owned land within the reservation.
   

Thats what I have been wondering about. The way I read it the language from the tribe says ALL land within the reservation boundarys which would include private land. I am not sure I am interpreting it right and  I hear different viewpoints on this but if you end up in tribal court I don't think it matters how anyone interprets it other than the tribe because you will be in THEIR court. Not showing up to court I think would end very poorly. If anyone has any kind of clarity on this it would be great since I hunt some open private timberground within the reservation and I cant seem to get a straight answer. I guess I could call the tribe but i prefer the expert advice of internet forums  :chuckle: I am guessing there is a lot of people that wont take it serious and a bunch of tickets written. Im already hearing a lot of redneck bar stool opinions of basically "screw em" i am not paying. It will be an interesting year . Anyways if anyone knows factual information on private ground within the reservation i would appreciate it
While a bit off topic, the Idaho draw is at least a week out...so we've got some time to kill  :chuckle:

Reservation lands are the lands specifically held in trust for the Tribe and land ownership maps will show them as tribal trust lands. Usually these lands are within the bounds of an Indian Reservation.  It does not include private or public lands, even if they are within the boundary of the reservation. 

I'm unaware of anything that would give the Tribe jurisdiction over non-tribal lands within a reservation.  I do not know precisely what the CDA Tribe position may be (or what they are asserting), but I hunt a ton of non-tribal land within the boundaries of Indian Reservations in Idaho all the time and the Tribe has literally zero jurisdiction.  IF you are hunting (or wanting to hunt) on CDA Tribe trust land, you'd better follow their rules.  If you are not, and you are not an enrolled tribal member, you follow the IDFG rules.
   

 :tup: Thanks! Very helpful and that's what I was thinking and hoping

That is not how the Tribe's regulations read.  There is still on going discussion going on.  Here is the Tribes regulation.  Read the first pages:

https://www.cdatribe-nsn.gov/nr/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2021/02/2021_resident_nonresident_regulations-final.pdf

If you decide to hunt and/or fish within the boundaries of the
Coeur d’Alene Indian Reservation, I want to remind you that
these regulations, and related tribal code, apply to you. It is
important to honor them and remain in compliance so we
can continue to offer these opportunities well into the future.
These laws exist, first and foremost, to protect you as a
hunter/fisher, to protect our animals and the environment they call home, and to protect our many
landowners. Additionally, we ask that you respect the members of the Coeur d’Alene Tribe as they
are out engaging in their hunting rights in these same lands.
You may contact our Fisheries and Wildlife Programs if you need any additional information for your
outings. Our goal is to provide a fulfilling experience for everyone who decides to hunt within our
reservation. Lim lemtsh (thank you).
Fred Moyer


History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

Offline Machias

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2021, 09:03:40 PM »
The Coeur d’Alene Indian Tribe maintains exclusive jurisdiction to regulate the hunting and fishing by
others. The Tribe and its members retain the right to hunt and fish without state regulation in the total
area originally enclosed in the Reservation proclaimed by the President of the United States in 1873.
All wildlife, including all wild animals, wild birds, and fish within the Coeur d’Alene Reservation and
other areas over which the Tribe exercises authority are the exclusive property of the Coeur d’Alene
Tribe.
Fred Moyer


History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: IDAHO Controlled hunt deadline June 5...Tomorrow
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2021, 09:56:39 PM »
The tribe can assert whatever it would like but I see no case law or existing interpretations which would support their claims.  The state of Idaho also asserts they have jurisdiction over non-tribal hunters in this area.  If the reservation were not so broken up (via Dawes Act) they might have some more legitimacy to their claim.  As I noted earlier, if you intend to hunt on CDA reservation/trust lands...I'd follow their rules and pay their fees.  If you are not hunting on tribal reservation/trust lands, then follow the rules of IDFG and the landowner. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

 


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