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Author Topic: Why late archery?  (Read 5469 times)

Offline baldopepper

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2021, 06:53:48 PM »
I don't disagree that something needs to be done, but to just pick a user group and suggest that is the problem and will fix our deer numbers is a false narrative.  If that was the case and we thought eliminating one of the the user groups opportunity....we should just eliminate all rifle hunting seasons being that is the largest user group that hands down kills the majority of animals.....maybe not from a percentage standpoint but definitely as it pertains to total number of deer being shot.

From now on, Washington should be a primitive weapon state.  I would vote for that long before I ever agree to giving up more opportunity.  Less animals would be killed and at least the tradition of hunting with family and friends would remain intact. 

I understand what you saying about 121 and the blue tongue damage this year.  Reality is the late bow season will not change how long it takes these deer to recover.  The deer that died from blue tongue are....well dead.  The ones that weren't effected are very healthy and very much alive.  The pressure of bow hunters will undoubtedly be the same as it has been every year during this hunt.  Less animals will be killed due to the smaller number of animals to harvest.  The sun will rise and fall and next year will bring a new hunting season.  Harvest numbers will remain low as the heard rebuilds and with any luck and a little bit of actual give a F&*& from out game department, we will have a healthy heard again in the years to come. 

As a disclaimer:::

I also rifle hunt so my suggestion of taking away that user groups opportunity is said in gest. 

I also spend about 25-35% of my year in 121 and have not seen the decline of numbers in my general area.  Our heard has remained very healthy and strong.  Our does are as fat as they have been and we have had a great fawn year with most does having twins. 

I see the predator problem in 121 being a far bigger problem than any hunting.  I have at least 5-6 cougars that roam my property throughout the year and have pictures of at least 18 different bears this spring.  We have killed 4 bears off the property and it won't put a dent in the population....OHHHHH AND NOW THERE IS NO SPRING SEASON FOR 2022!!!  Where does the problem lie??   :bash: :bash: :bash:



At the end of the day, I am tired of surrendering opportunity to out state because we feel a few bow hunters are going to kill all the deer.....that simply is not the case.  If people were truly that concerned, blue tongue was in full swing long before the rifle season started....and the locals would not have shot the buck they did, to then now be appalled that bow hunters now get to hunt a season that has existed for a decade or longer.
Not my intent to single out the archery people, I was also opposed to the modern weapon late hunt. I ve been hunting 121 for over 25 years and have watched the whitetail numbers decline consistently over the years.  Where I used to commonly have 15-20 whiteys show up daily around the house, I now occasionally see 1 or 2. Yes, the ones I see are fat and healthy looking, there just aren't the numbers anymore  I don't like lost opportunity anymore than anyone else, but as I posted earlier, I went thru this scenario in the 60's in Utah and it was not good. Everyone there said the old "don't worry, they,'ll come back", they didn't until closures and major restrictions happened that totally changed deer hunting opportunities.
Blue tongue did hit our area (glass carefully the big fields on the west side of Bissell road and you'll easily see 5 deer carcuses, all whitetails and most likely blue tongue-we checked them out carefully) I don't think it hit our area as hard as others. I just fill we need to give up some of the special hunts now rather than all of them later

Offline jrebel

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2021, 06:58:52 PM »
Yeah, I know it hit our area....but not near as hard as others.  I also know south of our place on the hunter sedonia road saw some die....but I have yet to find a dead one on or around our property.  We are higher though which apparently made a big difference. 

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2021, 07:14:37 PM »
I don't disagree that something needs to be done, but to just pick a user group and suggest that is the problem and will fix our deer numbers is a false narrative.  If that was the case and we thought eliminating one of the the user groups opportunity....we should just eliminate all rifle hunting seasons being that is the largest user group that hands down kills the majority of animals.....maybe not from a percentage standpoint but definitely as it pertains to total number of deer being shot.

From now on, Washington should be a primitive weapon state.  I would vote for that long before I ever agree to giving up more opportunity.  Less animals would be killed and at least the tradition of hunting with family and friends would remain intact. 

I understand what you saying about 121 and the blue tongue damage this year.  Reality is the late bow season will not change how long it takes these deer to recover.  The deer that died from blue tongue are....well dead.  The ones that weren't effected are very healthy and very much alive.  The pressure of bow hunters will undoubtedly be the same as it has been every year during this hunt.  Less animals will be killed due to the smaller number of animals to harvest.  The sun will rise and fall and next year will bring a new hunting season.  Harvest numbers will remain low as the heard rebuilds and with any luck and a little bit of actual give a F&*& from out game department, we will have a healthy heard again in the years to come. 

As a disclaimer:::

I also rifle hunt so my suggestion of taking away that user groups opportunity is said in gest. 

I also spend about 25-35% of my year in 121 and have not seen the decline of numbers in my general area.  Our heard has remained very healthy and strong.  Our does are as fat as they have been and we have had a great fawn year with most does having twins. 

I see the predator problem in 121 being a far bigger problem than any hunting.  I have at least 5-6 cougars that roam my property throughout the year and have pictures of at least 18 different bears this spring.  We have killed 4 bears off the property and it won't put a dent in the population....OHHHHH AND NOW THERE IS NO SPRING SEASON FOR 2022!!!  Where does the problem lie??   :bash: :bash: :bash:



At the end of the day, I am tired of surrendering opportunity to out state because we feel a few bow hunters are going to kill all the deer.....that simply is not the case.  If people were truly that concerned, blue tongue was in full swing long before the rifle season started....and the locals would not have shot the buck they did, to then now be appalled that bow hunters now get to hunt a season that has existed for a decade or longer.
Not my intent to single out the archery people, I was also opposed to the modern weapon late hunt. I ve been hunting 121 for over 25 years and have watched the whitetail numbers decline consistently over the years.  Where I used to commonly have 15-20 whiteys show up daily around the house, I now occasionally see 1 or 2. Yes, the ones I see are fat and healthy looking, there just aren't the numbers anymore  I don't like lost opportunity anymore than anyone else, but as I posted earlier, I went thru this scenario in the 60's in Utah and it was not good. Everyone there said the old "don't worry, they,'ll come back", they didn't until closures and major restrictions happened that totally changed deer hunting opportunities.
Blue tongue did hit our area (glass carefully the big fields on the west side of Bissell road and you'll easily see 5 deer carcuses, all whitetails and most likely blue tongue-we checked them out carefully) I don't think it hit our area as hard as others. I just fill we need to give up some of the special hunts now rather than all of them later

by reducing hunting for people all you're doing, and advocating for, is making more wolf/cougar/bear/coyote chit   



Offline jrebel

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2021, 07:26:12 PM »
I would consider a complete, one year, shutdown of all deer and elk hunting statewide it WDFW would allow and one year of hound hunting cats (one year / year round) and hound hunting / baiting of bears (one year / year round) to reduce the population of predators. 

Allow all hunters to take up to two bears and 1 cat in that year.... period and lets see what happens to out ungulate population.   



Offline KFhunter

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2021, 07:28:30 PM »
ummm


the commission just voted down a spring bear hunt, what chance is there of turning over a voter referendum and allowing hounds?   


and how could enough hunters get hounds up and running within a year?   That's a lifestyle - you're married to your dogs

Offline Seabass

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2021, 07:31:51 PM »
I would consider a complete, one year, shutdown of all deer and elk hunting statewide it WDFW would allow and one year of hound hunting cats (one year / year round) and hound hunting / baiting of bears (one year / year round) to reduce the population of predators. 

Allow all hunters to take up to two bears and 1 cat in that year.... period and lets see what happens to out ungulate population.   

Sort of like 2 weeks to flatten the curve?  :chuckle:

Offline jrebel

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2021, 07:32:37 PM »
ummm


the commission just voted down a spring bear hunt, what chance is there of turning over a voter referendum and allowing hounds?   


and how could enough hunters get hounds up and running within a year?   That's a lifestyle - you're married to your dogs

Get the commission to say yes and let hunters to figure the rest.  I get the fact it is not gonna happen and not realist......thus I'm not giving up any more opportunity and other hunters should feel the same way. 

Offline Seabass

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2021, 07:33:03 PM »
I would consider a complete, one year, shutdown of all deer and elk hunting statewide it WDFW would allow and one year of hound hunting cats (one year / year round) and hound hunting / baiting of bears (one year / year round) to reduce the population of predators. 

Allow all hunters to take up to two bears and 1 cat in that year.... period and lets see what happens to out ungulate population.   

Sort of like 2 weeks to flatten the curve?  :chuckle:

Iím with you thoughÖthatís a decent idea which is exactly why it wonít happen.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2021, 07:33:57 PM »
 :chuckle:

I was getting worried you found some shrooms in the cow patties out back

Offline baldopepper

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2021, 07:55:29 PM »
Guess the various predators don't like mule deer, there numbers around me have increased dramatically over the past few years. Again this year seemed to be a very healthy population of  fawns. Don't suppose it had anything to do with a apr, no late hunts, no various antlerless hunts on them. No question the predators are out of control around us, especially the lions, but obviously hunting restrictions are  helping mulies thrive.

Offline jrebel

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2021, 08:20:47 PM »
Guess the various predators don't like mule deer, there numbers around me have increased dramatically over the past few years. Again this year seemed to be a very healthy population of  fawns. Don't suppose it had anything to do with a apr, no late hunts, no various antlerless hunts on them. No question the predators are out of control around us, especially the lions, but obviously hunting restrictions are  helping mulies thrive.

The mule deer down by you have far fewer predators than the deer up canyon.  I run cameras on a couple properties, one not far from you off the hwy and have only seen one cougar and one bear in two years.  The mule deer thrive in that area and I have to believe it is because the lack of predators relative to further away from the hwy properties.....and the increase in residency / human presence.  I also know of some large tracts that have sold that do not allow hunting any longer which decreases the human predation.  Now if the bucks had time to grow so we had quality mule deer.....that would be something else.  I would be a huge proponent of WDFW moving to a 4 pt minimum for mule deer in the area.   ;)

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2021, 08:33:14 PM »
Guess the various predators don't like mule deer, there numbers around me have increased dramatically over the past few years. Again this year seemed to be a very healthy population of  fawns. Don't suppose it had anything to do with a apr, no late hunts, no various antlerless hunts on them. No question the predators are out of control around us, especially the lions, but obviously hunting restrictions are  helping mulies thrive.

The mule deer down by you have far fewer predators than the deer up canyon.  I run cameras on a couple properties, one not far from you off the hwy and have only seen one cougar and one bear in two years.  The mule deer thrive in that area and I have to believe it is because the lack of predators relative to further away from the hwy properties.....and the increase in residency / human presence.  I also know of some large tracts that have sold that do not allow hunting any longer which decreases the human predation.  Now if the bucks had time to grow so we had quality mule deer.....that would be something else.  I would be a huge proponent of WDFW moving to a 4 pt minimum for mule deer in the area.   ;)
well, there is some truth to that, although we and our neighbor commonly have lion pics on our trail cams, but why wouldn't the whitetail also be taking advantage of that? Honestly, I would like to see us have the bucks only October hunt only and give the whiteys a break for a couple years. Kids could have shot several nice mule deer bucks last week, including one very nice 4x5, so they are around. We're due for a rough winter, and I'm concerned that ,combined with the blue tongue,could be devastating to our whitetails in the area.

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2021, 08:46:54 PM »
Guess the various predators don't like mule deer, there numbers around me have increased dramatically over the past few years. Again this year seemed to be a very healthy population of  fawns. Don't suppose it had anything to do with a apr, no late hunts, no various antlerless hunts on them. No question the predators are out of control around us, especially the lions, but obviously hunting restrictions are  helping mulies thrive.

The mule deer down by you have far fewer predators than the deer up canyon.  I run cameras on a couple properties, one not far from you off the hwy and have only seen one cougar and one bear in two years.  The mule deer thrive in that area and I have to believe it is because the lack of predators relative to further away from the hwy properties.....and the increase in residency / human presence.  I also know of some large tracts that have sold that do not allow hunting any longer which decreases the human predation.  Now if the bucks had time to grow so we had quality mule deer.....that would be something else.  I would be a huge proponent of WDFW moving to a 4 pt minimum for mule deer in the area.   ;)
well, there is some truth to that, although we and our neighbor commonly have lion pics on our trail cams, but why wouldn't the whitetail also be taking advantage of that? Honestly, I would like to see us have the bucks only October hunt only and give the whiteys a break for a couple years. Kids could have shot several nice mule deer bucks last week, including one very nice 4x5, so they are around. We're due for a rough winter, and I'm concerned that ,combined with the blue tongue,could be devastating to our whitetails in the area.

It is super weird that the mule deer in that area tend to live where whitetail should and whitetail live where mulies would.  Still haven't figured that one out in the area.   :chuckle: :chuckle:

Offline buggy

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2021, 08:52:20 PM »
Yes, as I stated previously Utah went from complete.closures to reopening, albeit on permit basis. Bad from the point of view that the big family groups seemed to disappear when only one or two members drew, but good from a deer herd recovery basis.  With the herd numbers in some of the units what they are, we are only a hard winter away from a complete disaster.

I guess I was referring specifically to Washington. I understand that happened in Utah (btw I'm not a fan of making the whole state permit only if it can be avoided) but I have a hard time believing that Washington would do anything to bring it back. I guess in my short life time I've only seen opportunities decreased but not increased. (Please correct me if I'm wrong here.) I dont disagree that its being mismanaged and that something needs to change but I feel that once an opportunity is gone it's gone for good in this state. Maybe some old timers or someone with more knowledge than me can chime in.  :twocents:

Offline baldopepper

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Re: Why late archery?
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2021, 08:53:21 PM »
Guess the various predators don't like mule deer, there numbers around me have increased dramatically over the past few years. Again this year seemed to be a very healthy population of  fawns. Don't suppose it had anything to do with a apr, no late hunts, no various antlerless hunts on them. No question the predators are out of control around us, especially the lions, but obviously hunting restrictions are  helping mulies thrive.

The mule deer down by you have far fewer predators than the deer up canyon.  I run cameras on a couple properties, one not far from you off the hwy and have only seen one cougar and one bear in two years.  The mule deer thrive in that area and I have to believe it is because the lack of predators relative to further away from the hwy properties.....and the increase in residency / human presence.  I also know of some large tracts that have sold that do not allow hunting any longer which decreases the human predation.  Now if the bucks had time to grow so we had quality mule deer.....that would be something else.  I would be a huge proponent of WDFW moving to a 4 pt minimum for mule deer in the area.   ;)
well, there is some truth to that, although we and our neighbor commonly have lion pics on our trail cams, but why wouldn't the whitetail also be taking advantage of that? Honestly, I would like to see us have the bucks only October hunt only and give the whiteys a break for a couple years. Kids could have shot several nice mule deer bucks last week, including one very nice 4x5, so they are around. We're due for a rough winter, and I'm concerned that ,combined with the blue tongue,could be devastating to our whitetails in the area.

It is super weird that the mule deer in that area tend to live where whitetail should and whitetail live where mulies would.  Still haven't figured that one out in the area.   :chuckle: :chuckle:
well, I'll have to meet you down at the Hunters Tav sometime, buy you a cold one and we'll figure it out. LOL

 


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