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Author Topic: Question on access for native americans  (Read 10766 times)

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2021, 11:41:42 PM »
Yes when the Game department adopted the permit system for elk hunting 25ish years ago I was fully on board thinking some day I would have the opportunity for a "once in a lifetime hunt"....Little did I know at the time that the tribes would be skimming the cream off our elk herds.  With no regulations or seemingly a conscious, that opportunity has been lost as I'm still waiting to be drawn for "once in a lifetime hunt".

So here I sit with 25 points knowing I'll probably never be drawn because of the very few Quality tags available to me.  I can't help but wonder of the lost opportunity and how many more bulls would be available every year if we all played by the same rules.

I feel if it weren't for the tribes abusing their "right",  The Colockum would offer world class elk hunt with 10x the Quality tags availble today
:yeah: well said!
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2021, 11:45:29 PM »
We have been hunting late archery in the 342, natives were leaving the hills as we were heading in just before light.,,,, common sense tells you what?
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2021, 07:45:04 AM »
Yes when the Game department adopted the permit system for elk hunting 25ish years ago I was fully on board thinking some day I would have the opportunity for a "once in a lifetime hunt"....Little did I know at the time that the tribes would be skimming the cream off our elk herds.  With no regulations or seemingly a conscious, that opportunity has been lost as I'm still waiting to be drawn for "once in a lifetime hunt".

So here I sit with 25 points knowing I'll probably never be drawn because of the very few Quality tags available to me.  I can't help but wonder of the lost opportunity and how many more bulls would be available every year if we all played by the same rules.

I feel if it weren't for the tribes abusing their "right",  The Colockum would offer world class elk hunt with 10x the Quality tags availble today
:yeah: well said!
   


I agree with you 💯 percent but that ship sailed already, set up a program to pay them for killing predators. Best chance to save elk and deer herds and it will blow the *censored*s minds 👍😂

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2021, 08:23:11 AM »
I don't know about there but in the Nooksack the Indians can hunt with rifles, 24/7 during bow and muzzy seasons.  Yes spot lighting is legal for them is what I'm told.
Wrong!

I was told by a Nooksack State Gamey the indians are road hunting 24/7 in the nooksack in their 8 month season and tag alotment and there is nothing he can do about it.   Maybe its technically not allowed by the tribe (?) but even if not its not enforced.   Each of the approx 36 tags can be passed around if not filled during holders time allotment. 

Offline Practical Approach

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2021, 08:27:46 AM »
Washington state hunters have got to figure out how to become as loud as the anti-hunting groups.  While folks bicker on this website about who is killing too many animals or whether there are too many predators, the organized anti hunter groups out there have eliminated spring bear hunts for 2022.  So, over the last 25 years, body gripping traps were banned, hunting cougars with hounds was banned, and now the elimination of spring bear hunts for 2022 or?????   I would wager that those two new commissioners will continue to work to eliminate your hunting opportunities.  Not through science or date, but through ignorance, emotions and acting as mouthpieces for anti hunting pro predator organizations. 

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2021, 08:27:59 AM »
In Native American impacted areas special tags will continue to be reduced until they get so low with low success that WDFW gives up and just makes area general season like Utah has in areas.   Why manage areas for jerky harvest?  Just open it up.

Offline mburrows

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2021, 08:49:48 AM »
Came across a small buck in the back of truck in entiat last week that was shot right off the road in the head with a rifle. I called it in thinking it might be poaching as the buck was untagged. Warden went and made contact, turned out to be Yakima tribal members, they pulled two small bucks out that day.

Quite frustrating knowing guys are up there with a special archery permit and the tribes can go in there guns blazing.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2021, 08:52:58 AM »
In Native American impacted areas special tags will continue to be reduced until they get so low with low success that WDFW gives up and just makes area general season like Utah has in areas.   Why manage areas for jerky harvest?  Just open it up.

We've talked about that on this forum a few times.

OTC any elk in these areas will bring the tribes to the table for discussions about sharing the resource a bit more equally

This is the scorched earth option.

Offline Tbar

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2021, 08:55:44 AM »
In Native American impacted areas special tags will continue to be reduced until they get so low with low success that WDFW gives up and just makes area general season like Utah has in areas.   Why manage areas for jerky harvest?  Just open it up.
More ignorant rhetoric.  If the mods want to allow this train wreck to continue I'll continue to respond. Magnum what game warden? I'm sure you got a name, and I trust the state guys know the scenarios up here as well as the access.  I'll gladly follow up to clear the air but I'd bet their story will not be quite as you are recalling it.  I'm guessing you might be embellishing just a bit to look cool on here.

Offline Tbar

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2021, 09:00:47 AM »
In Native American impacted areas special tags will continue to be reduced until they get so low with low success that WDFW gives up and just makes area general season like Utah has in areas.   Why manage areas for jerky harvest?  Just open it up.

We've talked about that on this forum a few times.

OTC any elk in these areas will bring the tribes to the table for discussions about sharing the resource a bit more equally

This is the scorched earth option.
Let me know when you become a wdfw policy maker and we can discuss equity.   :dunno:

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2021, 09:05:12 AM »
Mod hat on

Mods are not here to censor content, tribal hunting is an issue that affects hunting in WA and therefore a legitimate topic of discussion.  If someone goes too far or gets too heated and breaks 4m rules we'll warn and ban as appropriate, what side of the issue they're on is irrelevant. 

We're not going to automatically shut down all unfavorable topics regarding native hunting. 

If you want to represent "the tribes" in your debate, how you choose to do so is entirely up to you.

Offline Tbar

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2021, 09:12:56 AM »
Mod hat on

Mods are not here to censor content, tribal hunting is an issue that affects hunting in WA and therefore a legitimate topic of discussion.  If someone goes too far or gets too heated and breaks 4m rules we'll warn and ban as appropriate, what side of the issue they're on is irrelevant. 

We're not going to automatically shut down all unfavorable topics regarding native hunting. 

If you want to represent "the tribes" in your debate, how you choose to do so is entirely up to you.
Man you are tough to articulate courtesy to.  The courtesy was simply to the op. Not your ignorant misreprentation of your validity in the wildlife policy world.  I only represent myself, but I am native! ;)

Offline Special T

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2021, 09:28:52 AM »
Yup, I've had long chats with the head game manager with the Colville tribe.  The Kalispell tribe also is very proactive. 

Tbar doesn't need to get all defensive as he does in these threads,  it's true theres no $$ in predator hunting,  no incentive.  The Colvilles got wolf trapping in 101 but without incentive what's to keep them out there doing it beyond the initial cool new thing to do?

I'd like to something like F4WM in WA funneling up to $2500 for a wolf like in Idaho, then we'd see stuff happening
Let’s get it going!  I can’t think of a legal issue.  They can legally hunt them. Maybe start at $500 for a wolf or a cougar.  Have to provide gps coordinates of the kill site.

It is the only chance we have at predator management.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aside from complaining this is the only productive path forward. If you want to fight Tribes over a dwindling resource you will spend vast sums of cash and likely get no where.

Turn the perceived negative into a positive. It is my understanding that hounds, and traditional trapping equipment is available to Tribal members.  If that is the case (99% think Im right but perhaps Some one can correct me if I am mistaken) then the State, Peta and other Anit Predator control groups can do nothing about it.

This is where I believe it becomes problematic. F4WM operates in relatively friendly states and still encounters all kinds of problems. I have talked with a few sportsmen Orgs and F4WM about doing something like that in this state. Orgs in WA don't seem interested in touching it. 1 they would essentially be fighting the WDFW and could loose further cooperation with them on important matters. 2 Many sportsmen, that are their members, would rebel because they share the same shortsighted opinions that many on here do.

I personally think the only way for this to work is for a Tribe to set this up as an experiment. Some of us that are not shortsighted would support it. Not all Tribes are created equal. In both the Ceded areas that they could do this, or the public/hunters perception of them executing the program. The major limiting factor is that Tribes are not likely interested in making a public display of what they are doing. I know that Certain tribes are already doing some of this on a limited scale, but it isnt public. Most of you likely don't know about it. Additionally Some Tribes have done awesome predator Prey studies that refute the BS from the WDFW. They don't seem to be persuadable to share that information with the public. If I were to happen a guess it is that they want to keep their powder dry for a lawsuit of their time and choosing. If we are REALLY lucky more Tribes will have younger savvy Tribal councils that are willing to extend the olive branch in Public.

Why Do I think this? The City of Blaine and the Whatcom county tried to impose a no shooting accordance in Drayton Harbor. the Washington Waterfowl Association fought this. The government entities were willing to give a tribal exception and screw normal hunters. Guess what? The local tribes stood with sportsmen and as a result the ordinances died. This should give us hope that if we can get our S together we could expand on this gesture.

I have said some rather negative and ignorant things on here about tribal issues. Sportsmen NEED to either dive deep into issues or trust an organization that will. In the last several years I have tried to do more reading on hunting issues and listen to more commission meetings, a rather huge investment of time I might add. I wouldn't expect every sportsmen to go to the same length but I wish they would. Many of you may not realize we are on the precipice of a WDFW stacked full of Anti hunters. Many of us have complained that the governor, the department, the legislature does not listen to us. We NEED all the Allies we can get right now.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 09:49:50 AM by Special T »
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2021, 09:31:50 AM »
In Native American impacted areas special tags will continue to be reduced until they get so low with low success that WDFW gives up and just makes area general season like Utah has in areas.   Why manage areas for jerky harvest?  Just open it up.
More ignorant rhetoric.  If the mods want to allow this train wreck to continue I'll continue to respond. Magnum what game warden? I'm sure you got a name, and I trust the state guys know the scenarios up here as well as the access.  I'll gladly follow up to clear the air but I'd bet their story will not be quite as you are recalling it.  I'm guessing you might be embellishing just a bit to look cool on here.

PM me - I stayed at the guys place for 4 days - legit gamey.  Not sure where you are getting your info but I'm getting mine straight from the only enforcement on the ground there.   There is no better info on what is actually happening.  Sorry if reality doesn't jive with your expectations or hopes. 

Offline Tbar

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2021, 09:42:44 AM »
Pm sent

 


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