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Author Topic: Question on access for native americans  (Read 10926 times)

Offline Tbar

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2021, 10:45:49 AM »
So Magnum_Willys doesn't want to honor his own request so I'll offer a little more. I  have a friend that lives really close to the Nooksack, he let a colleague stay at his house when he drew the tag, then a firefighter, then sniper10 (jt) on here and I'm guessing it led to m agnum staying there.  He and I have frequent and controversial discussions quite a bit.  I have never thought about taking them beyond discussion.  I won't throw out professional duties but these have predated and collegial affiliation. There is often erroneous information that gets corrected.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2021, 01:21:18 PM »
We NEED all the Allies we can get right now.
I completely agree.  I think Tribes are the best shot at straightening out this commission and getting the governors ear.  I'd love to see Tribes hammering Lorna Smith for her racist policies that arbitrarily protect predators at the expense of important tribal treaty resources (deer and elk). 

Tribes have a large stake (and a lot of resources) invested in ensuring fish and wildlife resources are plentiful.  I get that sportsmen, typically ignorant on matters of tribal treaties, feel like they are being cheated when a Tribal member harvests or has opportunities not available to them...and I get the complaints about very small numbers of tribal members harvesting a LOT of bulls and bucks.  But sportsman and tribal members have a lot of shared interests and we need to find ways to work together.  Predator management may be one great example...continuing to drive a wedge over Tribal members exercising treaty rights is a non-starter IMO.   :twocents:


Unfortunately I do not have access to the relevant numbers, as some tribes have no limits reporting or seasons. so lets go with some numbers we can do some back of napkin math with.

For every additional cougar they take approximately 50=- deer/elk a year.  How many deer or elk do the "Worst tribal offender" take? 50? 100? Take out 2 additional cats and the numbers equal out. The total number of Register Yakimas is 10800 or so. lets say each of them harvest 1 animal a year (an over estimation I'm guessing since the total Yakima and Colockum elk herds only equal about 9k elk) that means that a harvest of 216 cats would negate those over estimated harvest numbers.  We know that in 2018 ALL cougar harvest open season and depredation was 376  STATE WIDE!
https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/management/game-harvest/2018/cougar

Could you imagine what would happen if the Yakimas Ran hounds and trapped on the ceded grounds and killed 100 cats?  Now expand those kinds of numbers to other tribes. We might actually get to some real harvest numbers that can impact our deer and elk herds.
   

 :yeah: The plus is I cant wait to see the anti hunters lose their minds when its Native Americans fixing the problem  :chuckle:

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2021, 01:24:01 PM »
We NEED all the Allies we can get right now.
I completely agree.  I think Tribes are the best shot at straightening out this commission and getting the governors ear.  I'd love to see Tribes hammering Lorna Smith for her racist policies that arbitrarily protect predators at the expense of important tribal treaty resources (deer and elk). 

Tribes have a large stake (and a lot of resources) invested in ensuring fish and wildlife resources are plentiful.  I get that sportsmen, typically ignorant on matters of tribal treaties, feel like they are being cheated when a Tribal member harvests or has opportunities not available to them...and I get the complaints about very small numbers of tribal members harvesting a LOT of bulls and bucks.  But sportsman and tribal members have a lot of shared interests and we need to find ways to work together.  Predator management may be one great example...continuing to drive a wedge over Tribal members exercising treaty rights is a non-starter IMO.   :twocents:
   

 :tup:

Offline Jingles

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2021, 01:25:26 PM »
Here is an idea, as long as the tribes clain Sovereign Nation status any hunting, fishing, trapping on ANY lands not directly within the defined reservation boundaries require a Non Resident Alien License.
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Offline idaho guy

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2021, 01:34:06 PM »
So Magnum_Willys doesn't want to honor his own request so I'll offer a little more. I  have a friend that lives really close to the Nooksack, he let a colleague stay at his house when he drew the tag, then a firefighter, then sniper10 (jt) on here and I'm guessing it led to m agnum staying there.  He and I have frequent and controversial discussions quite a bit.  I have never thought about taking them beyond discussion.  I won't throw out professional duties but these have predated and collegial affiliation. There is often erroneous information that gets corrected.
 

No offense but forget about the game warden or whatever-since you are native what are your thoughts on predator control? Running hounds in washington for cats would be amazing. The wolf hunting and trapping would be equally good. Baiting bears that haven't seen bait for 20 plus years? What are you waiting for. There has to be a way to set up a reimbursement program as well. I would hardly hunt elk and deer if I had the predator opportunities that exist for Native Americans. Bear and cougar meat is good  :tup:

Offline HillHound

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2021, 02:01:20 PM »
I could go off ranting on this all night but Iíve done that before and obviously know it will get me nowhere so Iíll just throw this out there

Quinalts sell bear tags to non-Indians and bait the Bears in. No Washington state bear tag is needed. They are doing this to mitigate the severe damage their timber is suffering from the Bears peeling the bark. Why canít the yakamas charge me for a cougar tag and take me out on a hound hunt? It would be to mitigate the severe damage their recourses are suffering much like the Quinault. Obviously the Quinaultís probably donít enjoy taking non-natives hunting on their land, but if itís saving trees and Iíll give them 3000 bucks theyíre more than happy to. So like some of said maybe we just need to find the right ways to incentivize the few people who can actually do something about the problems we are having

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2021, 02:04:10 PM »
In Native American impacted areas special tags will continue to be reduced until they get so low with low success that WDFW gives up and just makes area general season like Utah has in areas.   Why manage areas for jerky harvest?  Just open it up.
yeah this 10000%.  Been saying it for years now, open everything up otc cow, bull, buck doe!!!  Itís the only idea that will work and you can tell because the natives hate when it gets brought up!!! 
ďIn common withĒ..... not so much!!

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2021, 02:12:04 PM »
In Native American impacted areas special tags will continue to be reduced until they get so low with low success that WDFW gives up and just makes area general season like Utah has in areas.   Why manage areas for jerky harvest?  Just open it up.
yeah this 10000%.  Been saying it for years now, open everything up otc cow, bull, buck doe!!!  Itís the only idea that will work and you can tell because the natives hate when it gets brought up!!! 
:yeah:  They don't like it when you repost pictures of there truckload of deer or elk you'll get banned from their facebook site :yike:

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2021, 02:23:11 PM »
Here is an idea, as long as the tribes clain Sovereign Nation status any hunting, fishing, trapping on ANY lands not directly within the defined reservation boundaries require a Non Resident Alien License.
I'd suggest you read the US Constitution (Article 6 in particular) - then take a look at the Treaties signed with area tribes :tup:
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2021, 02:55:15 PM »
Here is an idea, as long as the tribes clain Sovereign Nation status any hunting, fishing, trapping on ANY lands not directly within the defined reservation boundaries require a Non Resident Alien License.
I'd suggest you read the US Constitution (Article 6 in particular) - then take a look at the Treaties signed with area tribes :tup:
Aren't the treaties a living-breathing document that need to be amended to keep up with the times . If not maybe they should be  :chuckle:

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2021, 02:59:19 PM »
I could go off ranting on this all night but Iíve done that before and obviously know it will get me nowhere so Iíll just throw this out there

Quinalts sell bear tags to non-Indians and bait the Bears in. No Washington state bear tag is needed. They are doing this to mitigate the severe damage their timber is suffering from the Bears peeling the bark. Why canít the yakamas charge me for a cougar tag and take me out on a hound hunt? It would be to mitigate the severe damage their recourses are suffering much like the Quinault. Obviously the Quinaultís probably donít enjoy taking non-natives hunting on their land, but if itís saving trees and Iíll give them 3000 bucks theyíre more than happy to. So like some of said maybe we just need to find the right ways to incentivize the few people who can actually do something about the problems we are having

Maybe they can. Have you developed a relationship with any of the Yakimas? That might be a start. There are several who are members of this forum.
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Offline Jingles

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2021, 03:13:58 PM »
Here is an idea, as long as the tribes clain Sovereign Nation status any hunting, fishing, trapping on ANY lands not directly within the defined reservation boundaries require a Non Resident Alien License.
I'd suggest you read the US Constitution (Article 6 in particular) - then take a look at the Treaties signed with area tribes :tup:

Broke out handy dandy copy of my pocket Constitution to check if I was wrong and you have me wondering what Constitution you are referring to as Article VI (6) of the US Constitution refers to "All Depts contracted and Engagements entered into before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Conferation."
The Confederation of which they speak was how the Colonies were being governed prior to the Constitution
Conferation of States.

The only place the Indiams are mentioned in the first seven Articles is in Article 1 section 8 paragraph 3, which describes what authority Congress has and what they are allowed to do.
"To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes"

Care to review your copy of the Constitution and try again?
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Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2021, 03:20:47 PM »
Here is an idea, as long as the tribes clain Sovereign Nation status any hunting, fishing, trapping on ANY lands not directly within the defined reservation boundaries require a Non Resident Alien License.
I'd suggest you read the US Constitution (Article 6 in particular) - then take a look at the Treaties signed with area tribes :tup:

Broke out handy dandy copy of my pocket Constitution to check if I was wrong and you have me wondering what Constitution you are referring to as Article VI (6) of the US Constitution refers to "All Depts contracted and Engagements entered into before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Conferation."
The Confederation of which they speak was how the Colonies were being governed prior to the Constitution
Conferation of States.

The only place the Indiams are mentioned in the first seven Articles is in Article 1 section 8 paragraph 3, which describes what authority Congress has and what they are allowed to do.
"To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes"

Care to review your copy of the Constitution and try again?
"
You read/typed up the first sentence of Article 6...now read the second sentence...."...all Treaties made, or which shall be made,...shall be the supreme Law of the Land"
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Online Rainier10

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #73 on: November 29, 2021, 03:24:34 PM »
I could go off ranting on this all night but Iíve done that before and obviously know it will get me nowhere so Iíll just throw this out there

Quinalts sell bear tags to non-Indians and bait the Bears in. No Washington state bear tag is needed. They are doing this to mitigate the severe damage their timber is suffering from the Bears peeling the bark. Why canít the yakamas charge me for a cougar tag and take me out on a hound hunt? It would be to mitigate the severe damage their recourses are suffering much like the Quinault. Obviously the Quinaultís probably donít enjoy taking non-natives hunting on their land, but if itís saving trees and Iíll give them 3000 bucks theyíre more than happy to. So like some of said maybe we just need to find the right ways to incentivize the few people who can actually do something about the problems we are having
This is a great idea and I would gladly pay to hunt cougars and bears with dogs along side a tribal member especially if it could be on ceded ground and off the reservation.  I can't even imagine how much money could be made in the first couple years of that with the target rich predator environment we have right now statewide.
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Offline HillHound

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #74 on: November 29, 2021, 03:25:43 PM »
I do know one personally, not a member on here, but we usually try to purposely stay off of these kind of topics because much like many of the conversations on here they end up going the wrong direction and  nobody ends up happy with the outcome in the end.  I will check with Him and see if he knows if this is a possibility. Maybe some of the native members on here can chime in if itís a possibility and they are looking to start taking us out on some guided hound hunts.

 


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