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Author Topic: Question on access for native americans  (Read 10927 times)

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2021, 03:31:09 PM »
We've literally had dozens of threads, scores even, in which it's been pointed out that treaties passed by Congress and signed into law by the POTUS are binding. If you have a problem with the rights spelled out in the treaties, you have two choices. 1. Go to Congress to have the treaties changed, or 2. go to the nation in question and ask for voluntary regulation/restriction of the rights granted in the treaty(s). And, if you think laws are being broken by anyone, take your evidence to the LE for that jurisdiction and present it. Tribal police do arrest and prosecute their own members for breaking the law.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2021, 03:35:38 PM »
I do know one personally, not a member on here, but we usually try to purposely stay off of these kind of topics because much like many of the conversations on here they end up going the wrong direction and  nobody ends up happy with the outcome in the end.  I will check with Him and see if he knows if this is a possibility. Maybe some of the native members on here can chime in if itís a possibility and they are looking to start taking us out on some guided hound hunts.

I suggest that if your impetus for the conversation is to actually gleen information, as opposed to putting forward your personal biases and suspicions regarding tribal harvest, you may accomplish and learn a great deal. Best of luck moving forward.  :tup:
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline Jingles

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #77 on: November 29, 2021, 03:35:47 PM »
Here is an idea, as long as the tribes clain Sovereign Nation status any hunting, fishing, trapping on ANY lands not directly within the defined reservation boundaries require a Non Resident Alien License.
I'd suggest you read the US Constitution (Article 6 in particular) - then take a look at the Treaties signed with area tribes :tup:

Broke out handy dandy copy of my pocket Constitution to check if I was wrong and you have me wondering what Constitution you are referring to as Article VI (6) of the US Constitution refers to "All Depts contracted and Engagements entered into before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Conferation."
The Confederation of which they speak was how the Colonies were being governed prior to the Constitution
Conferation of States.

The only place the Indiams are mentioned in the first seven Articles is in Article 1 section 8 paragraph 3, which describes what authority Congress has and what they are allowed to do.
"To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes"

Care to review your copy of the Constitution and try again?
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You read/typed up the first sentence of Article 6...now read the second sentence...."...all Treaties made, or which shall be made,...shall be the supreme Law of the Land"
" and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution  or Laws of any State to the Contrary, notwithstanding"
The Laws of Washington State set the dates and Harvest limits of game therefore have senority and are the laws of the Land in WA State.
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Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #78 on: November 29, 2021, 03:48:58 PM »
Here is an idea, as long as the tribes clain Sovereign Nation status any hunting, fishing, trapping on ANY lands not directly within the defined reservation boundaries require a Non Resident Alien License.
I'd suggest you read the US Constitution (Article 6 in particular) - then take a look at the Treaties signed with area tribes :tup:

Broke out handy dandy copy of my pocket Constitution to check if I was wrong and you have me wondering what Constitution you are referring to as Article VI (6) of the US Constitution refers to "All Depts contracted and Engagements entered into before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Conferation."
The Confederation of which they speak was how the Colonies were being governed prior to the Constitution
Conferation of States.

The only place the Indiams are mentioned in the first seven Articles is in Article 1 section 8 paragraph 3, which describes what authority Congress has and what they are allowed to do.
"To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes"

Care to review your copy of the Constitution and try again?
"
You read/typed up the first sentence of Article 6...now read the second sentence...."...all Treaties made, or which shall be made,...shall be the supreme Law of the Land"
" and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution  or Laws of any State to the Contrary, notwithstanding"
The Laws of Washington State set the dates and Harvest limits of game therefore have senority and are the laws of the Land in WA State.
You are not interpreting that correctly - the Treaties made by the US (such as tribal treaties) are the supreme law of the land.  States are subordinate if there is a conflict with a treaty.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #79 on: November 29, 2021, 04:14:07 PM »
I could go off ranting on this all night but Iíve done that before and obviously know it will get me nowhere so Iíll just throw this out there

Quinalts sell bear tags to non-Indians and bait the Bears in. No Washington state bear tag is needed. They are doing this to mitigate the severe damage their timber is suffering from the Bears peeling the bark. Why canít the yakamas charge me for a cougar tag and take me out on a hound hunt? It would be to mitigate the severe damage their recourses are suffering much like the Quinault. Obviously the Quinaultís probably donít enjoy taking non-natives hunting on their land, but if itís saving trees and Iíll give them 3000 bucks theyíre more than happy to. So like some of said maybe we just need to find the right ways to incentivize the few people who can actually do something about the problems we are having
This is a great idea and I would gladly pay to hunt cougars and bears with dogs along side a tribal member especially if it could be on ceded ground and off the reservation.  I can't even imagine how much money could be made in the first couple years of that with the target rich predator environment we have right now statewide.
   

 :yeah: probably be the best trophy lion hunt in the lower 48  :tup:

Offline NRA4LIFE

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #80 on: November 29, 2021, 04:18:08 PM »
If the tribes could do that, it would be high on my list of hunts.  Even if it were only 100 cats, that would be a good start.
Look man, some times you just gotta roll the dice

Offline Buzzsaw461

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #81 on: November 29, 2021, 04:33:11 PM »

Offline Buzzsaw461

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #82 on: November 29, 2021, 04:34:42 PM »
 :yeah:
No $$ in cougar or wolves
I would love,  absolutely love to compare roi with you.  Then maybe you wouldn't pop off with ignorant statements like this.  I don't think you have a clue what some tribes commit to conservation in this state.
You got to be kidding they net the rivers to the point where there's hardly any fish left to finish spawning, last week they were netting chums in the Noocksack throwing the bucks over board and after they cut the eggs out of the hens they toss them over also and then they are all whiny and crying because there are no fish. They are doing to elk and deer what they have done to the fish runs shoot everything year round don't believe me go check out some of their facebook sites conservations hell they don't know what the *censored* that is!

Offline Buzzsaw461

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #83 on: November 29, 2021, 04:40:14 PM »
 :yeah: exactly
In Native American impacted areas special tags will continue to be reduced until they get so low with low success that WDFW gives up and just makes area general season like Utah has in areas.   Why manage areas for jerky harvest?  Just open it up.

We've talked about that on this forum a few times.

OTC any elk in these areas will bring the tribes to the table for discussions about sharing the resource a bit more equally

This is the scorched earth option.

Offline Buzzsaw461

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #84 on: November 29, 2021, 04:42:50 PM »
 Exactly
In Native American impacted areas special tags will continue to be reduced until they get so low with low success that WDFW gives up and just makes area general season like Utah has in areas.   Why manage areas for jerky harvest?  Just open it up.
More ignorant rhetoric.  If the mods want to allow this train wreck to continue I'll continue to respond. Magnum what game warden? I'm sure you got a name, and I trust the state guys know the scenarios up here as well as the access.  I'll gladly follow up to clear the air but I'd bet their story will not be quite as you are recalling it.  I'm guessing you might be embellishing just a bit to look cool on here.

PM me - I stayed at the guys place for 4 days - legit gamey.  Not sure where you are getting your info but I'm getting mine straight from the only enforcement on the ground there.   There is no better info on what is actually happening.  Sorry if reality doesn't jive with your expectations or hopes.

Offline Buzzsaw461

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #85 on: November 29, 2021, 04:45:14 PM »
 :bash:
In Native American impacted areas special tags will continue to be reduced until they get so low with low success that WDFW gives up and just makes area general season like Utah has in areas.   Why manage areas for jerky harvest?  Just open it up.
More ignorant rhetoric.  If the mods want to allow this train wreck to continue I'll continue to respond. Magnum what game warden? I'm sure you got a name, and I trust the state guys know the scenarios up here as well as the access.  I'll gladly follow up to clear the air but I'd bet their story will not be quite as you are recalling it.  I'm guessing you might be embellishing just a bit to look cool on here.

PM me - I stayed at the guys place for 4 days - legit gamey.  Not sure where you are getting your info but I'm getting mine straight from the only enforcement on the ground there.   There is no better info on what is actually happening.  Sorry if reality doesn't jive with your expectations or hopes.
Pm sent. Let me know if you are going to respond. Obviously you were either misrepresenting or have low integrity.

Offline Buzzsaw461

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #86 on: November 29, 2021, 04:48:43 PM »
Well said
Are we throwing a good game warden under the bus here?

That's sad..
More like have a cup of coffee with all involved.  In person accountability is often different than on the web.

I don't buy that for a second.  I believe you'd use your position to round up complaints to the state from tribe leadership about a "gamie spreading racist lies to create anti-tribal animus".

With the current leaders and politics in this state, he'd likely not survive that onslaught.


Hence my comment about throwing the dude under a bus.

Offline Dan-o

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #87 on: November 29, 2021, 05:25:21 PM »
Exactly
In Native American impacted areas special tags will continue to be reduced until they get so low with low success that WDFW gives up and just makes area general season like Utah has in areas.   Why manage areas for jerky harvest?  Just open it up.
More ignorant rhetoric.  If the mods want to allow this train wreck to continue I'll continue to respond. Magnum what game warden? I'm sure you got a name, and I trust the state guys know the scenarios up here as well as the access.  I'll gladly follow up to clear the air but I'd bet their story will not be quite as you are recalling it.  I'm guessing you might be embellishing just a bit to look cool on here.

PM me - I stayed at the guys place for 4 days - legit gamey.  Not sure where you are getting your info but I'm getting mine straight from the only enforcement on the ground there.   There is no better info on what is actually happening.  Sorry if reality doesn't jive with your expectations or hopes.

Respectfully, if you knew Tbar, you'd know that he is as much a man of his word as any member on this board.

If the man said talk over a cup of coffee, he meant talk over a cup of coffee.  Throwing a game warden under the bus is not who he is.

We can all have different opinions (heck, we've got people reinterpretting the U.S. Constitution in this thread) but I would not call his character into question.
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Offline KFhunter

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #88 on: November 29, 2021, 05:30:15 PM »
Thanks Dan-0  :tup:

I don't know Tbar one way or the other, just what he types on this forum.   

This thread didn't exactly endear me to him, calling every other person ignorant, liar and whatnot with zero positive or enlightening feedback, going off that, I hated to see a "legit gamie" be tossed under the native bus. 

We have so few "legit gamies" as it is

 

Offline TD

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Re: Question on access for native americans
« Reply #89 on: November 29, 2021, 05:36:26 PM »
Ok I vote we do away with the Quality Elk incubator program weíve created for the native Americans.  Since 99 percent of us will never draw ďthe tagĒ the only way to level the playing field is to revert the seasons back to the way they were 30 years ago

 


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