collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.  (Read 1256 times)

Offline Sundance

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 319
Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« on: November 29, 2021, 01:43:18 PM »
Wanting to start a discussion around public access (for consumptive use) on lands owned by Conservation Groups and Land Trusts. On several occasions I have come across parcels that are owned by XYZ conservation group or land trust. Usually I'm interested in fishing, hunting, clamming or general access to reach another block of land. In almost all cases when I contact the said organization about public access for consumptive use I'm told no, they don't allow access for recreation. When I then do some digging into their published finances I find that they are getting grants and other money from WDFW and other public funds/agencies. This is where I personally get a little confused and upset. If said group is accepting public funding to purchase land and then turns around an doesn't allow access how the heck is the public benefitting from this transaction? I fully understand that we have critical areas and preserves for a reason, but the money I pay into WDFW from my licenses and fees should be working to gain access and opportunity, not locking me out from them. I'd really like to see stipulations put on these organizations to where if they accept public funding from WDFW or other state/federal agencies then any land acquisitions should be open to public use, and consumptive use/harvest. I'm not sure if this is something that needs to be taken up with WDFW, local state reps, or a sportsmen advocacy group. It's been a rough go for sportsmen lately, with the Wildlife Commission and the spring bear season, fishing seasons, among other things. I'm far from laying down and giving up, if anything it's time to double down and push back harder.

Offline pianoman9701

  • Mushroom Man
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 36651
  • Location: Vancouver USA
  • NRA Life, MH, WFW, NAGR, RMEF, WSB, NMLS #2014743
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2021, 01:47:24 PM »
Are you talking about lands that you've confirmed you have no access to? The Nature Conservancy, for example, has bought land where it allows hunting.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline Tbar

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+22)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2475
  • Location: Whatcom county
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2021, 03:09:24 PM »
@Sundance you are on to something many of us have been trying to daylight for a while.  I'll chime in later with a bunch of specifics that'll leave you scratching your head.  The non consumptive groups are dominating this aspect of land management! And we're paying them to do it!

Offline Sundance

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 319
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2021, 03:16:43 PM »
Are you talking about lands that you've confirmed you have no access to? The Nature Conservancy, for example, has bought land where it allows hunting.

I haven't specifically looked into that particular group. There are some salmon based groups in the Puget Sound/Hood Canal and several Land Trusts that I have looked into. Locally for me there is a "Environmental Coalition" which pressures DNR to make land into parks or community forests. The community forest then appoint a board (members from the environmental coalition) which them set the usage rules... surprise, they don't allow for consumptive harvest! So essentially they are taking public lands (free for all to use), reclassifying them then appointing a board that passes rules to not allow hunting/fishing/foraging.

Offline Sundance

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 319
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2021, 03:21:37 PM »
@Sundance you are on to something many of us have been trying to daylight for a while.  I'll chime in later with a bunch of specifics that'll leave you scratching your head.  The non consumptive groups are dominating this aspect of land management! And we're paying them to do it!

One thing I can't stand about these groups is they are NPO's but have paid salary position. One of the salmon protective groups pays the CEO $100,000 with a vehicle. These groups are making money while screwing hunters/anglers out of recreational opportunities. It's hard because I'd love to throw myself into fighting against this, but without it being a full-time paid job how do you keep up with them? Let alone trying to start an organization that protects consumptive harvest rights where you can collect enough funding to pay people to fight it as a full-time job. I truly believe it's death by a thousand cuts, the anti groups know this, but the hunter/anglers have been slower to react.

Offline Tbar

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+22)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2475
  • Location: Whatcom county
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2021, 07:50:19 PM »
Hey @Sundance
I'll get more Specifics at a later time.  I'll be working into the night tonight. One possible pathway to success is looking into the post acquisition framework. There was a senate bill several years ago that mandated a broad interpretation of recreation. In the rco awards, it prohibits the narrow definitions being used by multiple ngo's especially land trusts. The federal funding also has differing post award requirements, some define access others just have habitat requirements. One consistent element is the lack of accountability and compliance by the awarded ngo. I believe there is progress for consumptive users without a huge investment. That said an investment both politically as well as legally could really pay dividends.
Stay tuned,  I'll provide some specifics.  @pianoman tnc has varying policies in regards to defining access and recreation, that variation seems regional but I haven't dug really deep. 

Offline Okano-gun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 83
  • Location: Twisp
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2021, 08:05:34 PM »
@Sundance you are on to something many of us have been trying to daylight for a while.  I'll chime in later with a bunch of specifics that'll leave you scratching your head.  The non consumptive groups are dominating this aspect of land management! And we're paying them to do it!

One thing I can't stand about these groups is they are NPO's but have paid salary position. One of the salmon protective groups pays the CEO $100,000 with a vehicle. These groups are making money while screwing hunters/anglers out of recreational opportunities. It's hard because I'd love to throw myself into fighting against this, but without it being a full-time paid job how do you keep up with them? Let alone trying to start an organization that protects consumptive harvest rights where you can collect enough funding to pay people to fight it as a full-time job. I truly believe it's death by a thousand cuts, the anti groups know this, but the hunter/anglers have been slower to react.

This is something that really bothers me too. Methow Salmon Recovery front man is paid $130,000 a year by that NPO.

Offline Tbar

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+22)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2475
  • Location: Whatcom county
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2021, 10:00:05 AM »
Bump this up. With all of the energy around involvement by the consumptive users, this is another place where domination is occurring. The non consumptive users are redefining conservation as well as public and hook and bullet crowds are being alienated.  :twocents:

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 22958
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Make it Rain!
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2021, 01:27:53 PM »
The RCO was looking for volunteers a while back.

https://rco.wa.gov/get-involved/volunteer-advisory-committee/
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline millerwheeler

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 887
  • Location: Spanaway
  • Get out and put some miles on those boots
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2021, 03:20:55 PM »
Tagging along VERY INTERESTING AS I NEVER UNDERSTOOD THESE SITUATIONS EITHER

Offline pianoman9701

  • Mushroom Man
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 36651
  • Location: Vancouver USA
  • NRA Life, MH, WFW, NAGR, RMEF, WSB, NMLS #2014743
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2021, 03:26:26 PM »
The Nature Conservancy’s Position on Hunting and Fishing https://blog.nature.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Hunt1.pdf
The Nature Conservancy does not take a general position for or against hunting and fishing. Many of our
members hunt and fish and many others strongly oppose either hunting or fishing or both. The Conservancy
has never opposed either, when they are carried out within applicable state and federal laws.
The mission of The Nature Conservancy is to preserve the plants, animals and natural communities that
represent the diversity of life on earth by protecting the lands and waters they need to survive. While we do
not encourage hunting or fishing on the majority of conservation sites that we own or manage, there are
several specific situations in which we might allow one or both:
• The most common reason for allowing hunting on Conservancy preserves is to maintain or
restore the integrity of biological communities. At many of our sites, populations of non-native
animals like feral hogs and of native animals like deer can grow well beyond the ability of the
natural communities to withstand their effects. In those situations, we sometimes employ
carefully managed hunting as a tool to reduce populations in order to reduce the damage that
they cause, allowing natural communities to recover their full vigor and diversity.
• We are increasingly aware that we cannot carry out our work in a vacuum -- we must be
sensitive to the human communities in and around the sites at which we choose to work. In
many cultures, subsistence hunting and fishing are both an historical fact and a practical
necessity. In others, they have been integral to the fabric of family and community life for
generations. In these places, we sometimes allow the continuation of traditional hunting and
fishing practices after we have acquired new properties in order to avoid disrupting the local
economy or stimulating unnecessary anger and resentment among our new neighbors. In these
situations, we only allow hunting or fishing after we are confident that they will not threaten the
conservation targets that we are trying to protect. We continue to monitor these sites so that we
can be certain that the long-term effects on the local biota are benign.
• Occasionally, those who give or sell property or conservation rights to the Conservancy make
the gift or sale contingent on the continued availability of the property to them for hunting or
fishing. Again, we only allow hunting or fishing after we are confident that they will not
threaten the conservation targets that we are trying to protect and we continue to monitor these
sites so that we can be certain that the long-term effects on the local biota are benign.
• Finally, The Conservancy has acquired millions of acres of conservation land for subsequent
transfer to state, federal, and local governments. In many cases, these transfers help to create or
extend wildlife and game management areas that are required by statute to provide recreational
opportunities, including hunting and fishing, to local citizens.
In all cases, Conservancy programs that allow hunting or fishing do so only after carefully evaluating the
biological and sociological effects of that choice, usually involving thorough site planning processes
designed to focus on the protection of the plants, animals and natural communities. We are not aware of
even a single situation in which allowing hunting or fishing on a TNC preserve has increased threats to our
conservation targets.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 22958
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Make it Rain!
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2021, 03:42:17 PM »
I know they allow the Washington Waterfowl Association to use it for the youth hunt on Padilla Bay in Skagit county but otherwise no hunting is allowed
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline pianoman9701

  • Mushroom Man
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 36651
  • Location: Vancouver USA
  • NRA Life, MH, WFW, NAGR, RMEF, WSB, NMLS #2014743
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2021, 03:45:19 PM »
As indicated, it changes from plot to plot.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline nwwanderer

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 3009
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2021, 03:43:04 PM »
Your parcel tax at work buying land that you can not use.  Many groups and the ones I am aware of stop consumptive use. 

Offline fireweed

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2009
  • Posts: 1182
  • Location: Toutle, Wa
Re: Public Access- Land Trusts/Conservation Groups etc.
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2021, 08:15:23 AM »
I have been fighting a similar battle with an actual GOVERNMENT AGENCY on PUBLIC LAND that is allowing private landowner to illegally landlock our public land.  It's not even an NCO, but a local Conservation District.  This Conservation District was gifted land by the state with requirements that it be used for public benefits including recreation.  The land is accessed by a legal road easement.  The Conservation District is letting the landowner that the easement goes through to post the road "no trespassing". 

The moral of the story: unless there is a watchdog group, easements and deed restrictions and recreation requirements on these groups mean NOTHING.  All these requirements that the public thinks they are getting in these land transactions are PAPER TIGERS.  Without some enforcement, requirements mean nothing.

 


* Advertisement

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2022, SimplePortal