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Author Topic: Blacktail double throat patch  (Read 3354 times)

Offline 85yota

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Blacktail double throat patch
« on: February 10, 2022, 10:22:26 AM »
Do blacktails grow double throat patches or are they born with them.. we think a buck in our area  now has a double throat patch at lets say age 4 when at age 3 he didnt.. antlers are gone so we can't for sure tell but this doesn't seem right.. whats your guys opinion on if bucks can develope DOUBLE throat patches or not

Offline KNOPHISH

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2022, 11:24:21 AM »
Yep, I had a nice one that I didnít cape and didnít realize it till the pictures.  :bash:
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Offline HntnFsh

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2022, 12:31:26 PM »
I think they develop them.

Offline meatwhack

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2022, 06:20:33 PM »
I think itís a genetic they either have or they donít.

Offline 85yota

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2022, 09:05:26 PM »
Yea we love double throat patch bucks but we've always been curious if anyone has cam photos of them getting them in older years or if it was a genetic trait..

Offline Jpmiller

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2022, 02:10:28 AM »
As I think about it now I don't remember seeing any real young bucks with them but that's going off memory. That's a really interesting question I hope someone can answer this.

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2022, 05:55:58 AM »
The Sitka Blacktail of Kodiak have the double white patch at least those I have hunted and seen.

Offline HntnFsh

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2022, 06:19:35 AM »
As I think about it now I don't remember seeing any real young bucks with them but that's going off memory. That's a really interesting question I hope someone can answer this.

Thats what got me to thinking that they develop them.

Offline highside74

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2022, 08:28:36 AM »
I have 2 on my wall.

Online blackveltbowhunter

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2022, 11:47:43 AM »
I personally think its a genetic thing. I have seen plenty of young deer with it including antlerless deer and old age class bucks without.

Offline JakeLand

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2022, 01:32:25 PM »
I personally think its a genetic thing. I have seen plenty of young deer with it including antlerless deer and old age class bucks without.
same here like eye guards I think genetics

Offline slim9300

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2022, 11:46:52 AM »
Itís pretty common where we hunt. The flash wipes out the color here.


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Offline fishnfur

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2022, 10:33:38 PM »
Nice Buck Slim9300.   I'd guess that it is a genetic trait that is expressed to a greater extent as the animal ages.  Much like Male Pattern Baldness and/or complete change of hair color from dark to silver, the older the human, the more impressive the change is compared to normal youth appearance.  There definitely seems to be some level of genetic expression throughout the range of BT deer.

I've always felt that the average Sitka Blacktail double throat patch was often much more substantial/impressive than those seen in BT deer significantly south of that region. From memory - they are essentially the same animal genetically.  The few genetic traits that differentiate them from herds farther south likely resulted from their (small) population's isolation following the last major glaciation in N. America.  A Founder Effect type small population of deer migrated north from SW WA/NW OR to populate areas north. Thousand of years of interbreeding resulted in a situation of reduced genetic diversity in that population, which likely strengthened of traits like the double throat patch, and reduced body size in size, (which is often seen in populations experiencing limited food resources), but similarly, created genetic problems not seen in deer populations south of there.  Certainly, there doesn't seem to be a genetic advantage for a deer to have a double throat patch (unless the breeding females find it more impressive than animals without the trait......often seen in birds etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founder_effect

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jim-Heffelfinger/publication/24216147_Species-wide_phylogeography_of_North_American_mule_deer_Odocoileus_hemionus_Cryptic_glacial_refugia_and_postglacial_recolonization/links/5a146f7945851500521301ea/Species-wide-phylogeography-of-North-American-mule-deer-Odocoileus-hemionus-Cryptic-glacial-refugia-and-postglacial-recolonization.pdf

From the abstract of that paper:

"Patterns of genetic diversity within the black-tailed deer
lineage suggest a single refugium along the Pacific Northwest coast, and refute the hypothesis
that black-tailed deer persisted in one or more northern refugia. Our data suggest that
black-tailed deer recolonized areas in accordance with the pattern of glacial retreat, with
initial recolonization northward along a coastal route and secondary recolonization inland."

example: 70% of Sitka BTD have condition where neither testes descend:  http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.544.2888&rep=rep1&type=pdf


I didn't read this so it may completely refute my theory.....

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/cordilleran-ice-sheet

(not my trophy) Taken from Google images of Sitka BT deer
« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 11:30:06 PM by fishnfur »
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Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2022, 05:30:46 AM »
Double patches are common on Kodiak deer

Offline 85yota

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Re: Blacktail double throat patch
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2022, 08:26:47 PM »
Thanks for the responses and I've noticed Sitka seem to have them a lot.. taxi I know will take double t patch capes for trade on other taxi work, this seems to be for guys who butcher there capes or didn't realize it was double t patch until they look at pics later.. nothing beats a mature double t patch imop but we've been trying to figure out when/why it happens.. turns out the deer we thought developmental them was a different buck that now lives in the area and his look alike is still non double..

 


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