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Author Topic: T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?  (Read 1301 times)

Offline Westside88

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T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« on: June 12, 2022, 05:54:20 PM »
So at some point I ended up with a jug of T7 fff.  I usually use the T7 ff for my Knight Disc Extreme. Can I use it interchangeably? I was thinking maybe shoot it up at the range. I've read varying opinions, so thought maybe someone here would know for sure.
Thanks
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 06:02:53 PM by bobcat »

Offline Sabotloader

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T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2022, 06:18:45 PM »
So at some point I ended up with a jug of T7 fff.  I usually use the T7 ff for my Knight Disc Extreme. Can I use it interchangeably? I was thinking maybe shoot it up at the range. I've read varying opinions, so thought maybe someone here would know for sure.
Thanks

Sure I would say shoot it up.  Hodgdon says that 3f has about a 10% increase in pressure than 2f but it also burns much quicker.  When I have shot both I do not see a significant difference at all.

Another good thing about 3f - it ignites easier than 2f and burns somewhat cleaner.

 
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Westside88

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T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2022, 07:45:23 PM »
Thanks, I was hoping for that answer.

Offline usmc74

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T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2022, 07:06:29 AM »
3F got about 100 FPS more out of my bighorn.  All I use now is 3F.

Offline hal

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T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2022, 09:01:22 AM »
HUNTING WITH MY T/C FLINTLOCK RENEGADE IN .54
I used fff (70 grs)  for main charge and ffff for pan. ff and fff were recommend.
Much better performance.

Offline 85yota

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T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2022, 04:36:34 PM »
Knight disc owner, as sabot said fff is supposed to ignite easier and produce more fps.. the local muzzy "guru" said it doesn't really matter but that ff will burn more consistently.. running 209 primer fpj, and have had no issue other than gnarly rain storm where powder type wouldn't matter.. if I was limited to n11 or musket caps I would seriously look at fff, but now(as much as I hate it) can use 209 i use ff.. in fact he even mentioned an issue where because fff lights so quick u could see an issue where the bullet takes off to soon before the proper powder amount has been burned use 209s..

Offline HntnFsh

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T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2022, 05:40:23 PM »
That doesn't make sense to me.

Offline 85yota

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Re: T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2022, 06:19:55 PM »
What part? The bullet leaving quickly? How he explained it sorta made sense albeit extremely rare, something about fff burning so quick with maybe not the tightest fitting sabot causing the bullet to ever so slightly come off the powder before the charge if optimally burned.. ill hold off for sabotloader lol

Offline M_ray

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Re: T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2022, 07:54:35 PM »
That doesn't make sense to me.

Heís saying Bullets can exit before all the powder is burned.

 I have shot both and didnít see too much difference but I prefer 3f and no 11 caps. When I shot 2f I used 209. I donít like switching back and forth so Iíve stuck with 3f since. I like using no 11 caps, there just seems to be less chance of moisture getting to the powder and Iíve never had a prob in heavy rain with them.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed here are not those of HW Management, Admins, Mods or Myself... But they are the opinions of Elvis who has revealed them to me through the medium of my pet hamster, Lee Harvey Oswald...


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Offline Westside88

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Re: T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2022, 08:07:40 PM »
I just picked up another jug of 2f, so Iíll have to take my time and compare the two at the range. I have a goal of shooting twice as much this summer as I have up until this point. 

Offline HntnFsh

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Re: T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2022, 08:35:55 PM »
That doesn't make sense to me.

Heís saying Bullets can exit before all the powder is burned.

 I have shot both and didnít see too much difference but I prefer 3f and no 11 caps. When I shot 2f I used 209. I donít like switching back and forth so Iíve stuck with 3f since. I like using no 11 caps, there just seems to be less chance of moisture getting to the powder and Iíve never had a prob in heavy rain with them.

But the fff will burn faster than the ff.
So if that happens it seems to me it would be the other way around. I believe Sabotloader has said fff is about 10% hotter than ff. So really not much. I've shot both and see very little if any difference.
I have used RWS 1075 caps for a lot of years and plant to stick with them for a lot more. I think they are the best cap on the market.

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2022, 12:44:42 AM »
What part? The bullet leaving quickly? How he explained it sorta made sense albeit extremely rare, something about fff burning so quick with maybe not the tightest fitting sabot causing the bullet to ever so slightly come off the powder before the charge if optimally burned.. ill hold off for sabotloader lol

For a long time the owner of Precision bullets claimed that using a shotgun primer (209) would lead to the bullet being pushed of the powder before the ignition of the powder occurred.  I think this claim has long ago been set aside'

The bullet, either a full bore conical or a bullet sabot combination, coming off the powder is or could be a real problem.  The greater the gap the greater the potential problem either with T7 or BH.  One thing to keep in mind also is that T7 is not a progressive burning powder such as BH is. Igniting T7 can occur with the bullet on or off the powder.  It does not require combustion pressure on the powder to fully ignite.  BH does require pressure to maintain combustion.

If the powder combustibility has been compromised by moisture, bore oils, even temperature the ability of a normal shot is also compromised. Plus then it would be possible to move the bullet off the powder by the ignition of the cap or primer, which could lead to a bigger problem.

Just my thoughts.



Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline M_ray

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Re: T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2022, 11:20:16 AM »
That doesn't make sense to me.

Heís saying Bullets can exit before all the powder is burned.

 I have shot both and didnít see too much difference but I prefer 3f and no 11 caps. When I shot 2f I used 209. I donít like switching back and forth so Iíve stuck with 3f since. I like using no 11 caps, there just seems to be less chance of moisture getting to the powder and Iíve never had a prob in heavy rain with them.

But the fff will burn faster than the ff.
So if that happens it seems to me it would be the other way around. I believe Sabotloader has said fff is about 10% hotter than ff. So really not much. I've shot both and see very little if any difference.
I have used RWS 1075 caps for a lot of years and plant to stick with them for a lot more. I think they are the best cap on the market.

With the proper primer ;) I could be wrong but I read it as he used no 11 caps with ff. I use 11ís with fff which will ignite better IMO from past experiences. If I were using ff Iíd use 209 or musket caps.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed here are not those of HW Management, Admins, Mods or Myself... But they are the opinions of Elvis who has revealed them to me through the medium of my pet hamster, Lee Harvey Oswald...


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Offline Sabotloader

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Re: T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2022, 03:46:22 PM »

Quote
With the proper primer ;) I could be wrong but I read it as he used no 11 caps with ff. I use 11ís with fff which will ignite better IMO from past experiences. If I were using ff Iíd use 209 or musket caps.

T7-2f will ignite very will with a #11MAG cap.  There can/could be a problem with a regular #11 cap.  The #11 Mag cap burns at a much higher temp than does a regular #11.  Several tests have been done that shows the #11 MAG cap and especially the RWS Dynamit Nobel 1075 + burns with the same heat produced by a Musket Cap.

I do agree that thre can sometimes be a problem shooting T7-2f from a side hammer using a #11 or a #11 Mag cap. T7-2F does not move out from the barrel under the cap as easily as does the smaller granuals of T7-3F powder.

Another problem that may be developing is that most companies that offer Musket caps are now only producing re-enactment caps which are not as hot as the regualar Musket Caps were.  The Dynamit Nobel 1081 remains a really hot Musket cap.

 



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Offline M_ray

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Re: T7 ff vs fff- practical difference?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2022, 10:44:28 PM »

Quote
With the proper primer ;) I could be wrong but I read it as he used no 11 caps with ff. I use 11ís with fff which will ignite better IMO from past experiences. If I were using ff Iíd use 209 or musket caps.

T7-2f will ignite very will with a #11MAG cap.  There can/could be a problem with a regular #11 cap.  The #11 Mag cap burns at a much higher temp than does a regular #11.  Several tests have been done that shows the #11 MAG cap and especially the RWS Dynamit Nobel 1075 + burns with the same heat produced by a Musket Cap.

I do agree that thre can sometimes be a problem shooting T7-2f from a side hammer using a #11 or a #11 Mag cap. T7-2F does not move out from the barrel under the cap as easily as does the smaller granuals of T7-3F powder.

Another problem that may be developing is that most companies that offer Musket caps are now only producing re-enactment caps which are not as hot as the regualar Musket Caps were.  The Dynamit Nobel 1081 remains a really hot Musket cap.

Correct, sorry I should have clarified, I use Dynamit 1075 caps The problems are with normal no 11ís like cci.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed here are not those of HW Management, Admins, Mods or Myself... But they are the opinions of Elvis who has revealed them to me through the medium of my pet hamster, Lee Harvey Oswald...


MB

Growing old is mandatory ... Growing up is optional!

 


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