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Author Topic: Motor oil question  (Read 2881 times)

Offline Dan-o

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Re: Motor oil question
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2022, 03:16:49 PM »
Thanks.

I just don't dare go over 4K.
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Offline Rob

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Re: Motor oil question
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2022, 04:29:32 PM »
The logic behind the 3k changes per the research I did was specific to the 6.4 engine.  I was told that part of the new emmissions equipment used diesel to burn off soot in one of the emmision control devices.  If it did not fully burn off it could be sucked into the oil and effectivly dilute the oil making it ineffective.  It can be observed if you see your oil level start to rise.  Essentially it was recomended to me that I change at 3k to avoid impact to the engine.  But that could be an old wives tale....

5k seems more reasonable to me.  Maybe i split the difference and do 4k like Dan!
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Live like you ainít afraid to die.
Just sit back and enjoy your ride
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Offline jackelope

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Motor oil question
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2022, 04:50:15 PM »
Again, not an expert but I think fuel dilution and engines making oil is due to a problem like an injector stuck open or the regen not happening the way itís supposed to. Iím pretty sure there is/was a pcm update to prevent regen from happening at idle. You could always have an oil sample taken and sent in for analysis. Itís not ďnormalĒ for that engine to make oil. If itís getting diluted, itís because something is wrong with it.


I think the emissions stuff youíre talking about is the diesel particulate filter and the regen process. It doesnít really ďuse diesel fuelĒ to do it. The engine rpmís will increase slightly. This is good info:

ďDiesel particulates in the exhaust are trapped by the DPF. Regeneration is the process by which exhaust temperatures are increased so the particulates are combusted. The frequency and length of regeneration will fluctuate as both are determined by the drive cycle. For most drive conditions, regeneration frequency will vary from 100 - 600 miles (161 - 804 Km) between occurrence and last from 10 to 40 minutes. The first regeneration does not require 100 miles (161 Km) and may occur at any time. The length of regeneration is usually reduced if a constant speed above 30 MPH (48 Km/h) is maintained.
The following is a list of normal operation while the vehicle is in regeneration, and do not require repair. If you are not sure if the vehicle is in regeneration,
IDS can be used to monitor the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) PID.

ē Engine idle speed can be 1100 to 1200 RPM in park/neutral with foot off
brake.
ē High idle speed drops to within 50 RPM of normal idle when the brake pedal is touched,

PRNDL is actuated, or clutch is actuated.
ē White smoke in cold ambients is normal and the mount will be increased
during regeneration.
ē Powertrain power is limited to 325 horsepower(HP).
ē Engine responsiveness may be slightly different than normal operation.
ē During initiation of regeneration, exhaust smell may be noticed - especially
on new vehicles.
ē Powertrain sound will be different including air induction noise (including
flutter on deceleration or engine shut down), exhaust noise, and
changes in engine radiated noise.
ē During regeneration, exhaust temperatures are elevated.Ē

Unless your truck is deleted and tuned, this happens regularly with it. And any newer diesel truck.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Rob

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Re: Motor oil question
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2022, 05:14:14 PM »
Interesting info and greatly appreciated


Sounds like a very similar process that my tractor goes thru.
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Sit tall in the saddle, hold you head up high.
Keep your eyes fixed on where the trail meets the sky.
Live like you ainít afraid to die.
Just sit back and enjoy your ride
  - Chris Ledoux

Offline jackelope

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Re: Motor oil question
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2022, 06:08:54 PM »
Interesting info and greatly appreciated


Sounds like a very similar process that my tractor goes thru.

Pretty much any newer ish diesel anything will do that.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline dyhardhuntr

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Re: Motor oil question
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2022, 09:45:14 AM »
The older diesels that have a particulate filter used a dosing injector behind the turbo to help increase the temp in the filter to burn away soot. Iíve looked at a lot of set ups over the years including Cat, Cummins, Navi star, ford and the like and canít imagine how you would get fuel dilution from a dosing unit. Usually itís a bad injector or injector cup. The fuel has to get into the cylinder to do that. Unless itís dripping and rolling back into an exhaust valve. Thereís a lot of crap on the internet these days. A guy could go broke trying to prevent everything. You could pull your dipstick and check for fuel in it. Itíll be real runny and smell like diesel. I would change my oil on an older diesel at around 5k. Newer diesels like my ram recommend them at 15k. Not that I would go that far but synthetics are capable of amazing things.

Offline Rob

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Re: Motor oil question
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2022, 11:08:54 AM »
Not disputing as I know literally nothing about engine repair, but the reason I worry about diesel in the oil on the 6.4 is around articles like this:

https://prosourcediesel.com/blog/ford-powerstroke/6-4-powerstroke-problems/#:~:text=6.4%20Powerstroke%20Problems%201%20Oil%20Dilution%20This%20is,Clogged%20EGR%20Coolers%20...%207%20Piston%20Failure%20
Quote
Oil Dilution
This is a very common problem in 6.4 Powerstroke engines. If youíve ever changed the oil on a 6.4 Powerstroke, you might have wondered about all the extra oil coming out. Owners of the 6.4 have reported several quarts and even up to a gallon of extra oil that shouldnít be there.

The truth is that itís not actually oil. In fact, itís diesel fuel. The 6.4 includes an emissions process that leads to oil dilution. The problem is that fuel in your oil reduces the lubrication of oil to your engineís essential parts.

How do you fix oil dilution? The first step is to check and change your oil frequently. By checking it frequently, you can find out if your oil capacity is too high. Always use high-quality oil that meets or exceeds OEM standards and quality Powerstroke parts like Motorcraft filters.

https://dieseliq.com/the-6-most-common-ford-6-4-power-stroke-engine-problems/
Quote
The 6 Most Common Ford 6.4 Power Stroke Engine Problems
5) 6.4 Power Stroke Fuel Dilution Problems
Active regeneration is the process that attempts to help keep the DPF clean. The Ford 6.4 diesel does this by injecting fuel during the exhaust stroke. This allows the fuel to exit the cylinder and flow downstream in the exhaust. This helps keep the DPF cleaner and burn off harmful emissions. However, thereís an inherent flaw to the way Ford designed this system.

Some engines use an extra injector to spray fuel directly into the exhaust stream. The 6.4 Power Stroke injects the fuel into the cylinders on the exhaust stroke. This allows small amounts of fuel to deposit on the cylinder walls where it can then contaminate the engine oil. Some fuel dilution of the oil is OK and shouldnít cause any harm.


However, if too much fuel mixes with the oil that can affect the oils ability to properly cool and lubricate the engine. This could lead to premature wear and tear on the 6.4L diesel internals. Not a good thing for engine longevity.

How to Avoid Ford 6.4 Fuel Dilution
There really arenít any symptoms or specific fixes for the fuel dilution problems on the 6.4 Power Stroke. Instead, weíll discuss a few ways to minimize fuel dilution and reduce the risk of it causing premature wear.

First, avoid excessive idle time as the cylinders cool down during idle. This increases the likelihood of fuel sticking to the cylinder walls and diluting the oil. Itís also a good idea to allow the engine to warm up before subjecting the 6.4 diesel to heavy loads.

Lastly, we recommend having an oil analysis done from time to time. Itís pretty cheap and will tell you just how much fuel is mixing into the oil. You can then adjust your oil change intervals to account for the fuel dilution.

https://dieselresource.com/diesel-resources/6-4l-powerstroke-problems/
Quote
1. Oil Dilution
Oil dilution is an extremely common problem that 6.4L Powerstroke owners face. Have you ever changed your engine oil on your 6.4 by yourself? You might have been surprised that after draining the oil out of your truck, you found a ton of extra oil. Several quarts and sometimes even over a gallon of extra oil can be removed when changing your engine oil.



Itís not really oil though. What youíre experiencing is oil dilution. That extra liquid is diesel fuel. When your 6.4 undergoes active regeneration, diesel is injected late in the exhaust stroke. It then travels into the exhaust stream, elevates EGTs and burns off hydrocarbons from the diesel particulate filter.

Oil dilution is an unfortunate by-product of this emissions process. What problems can oil dilution lead to though? Diesel doesnít offer the same lubricating properties as your engine oil does. This can lead to increased wear and tear on crucial engine components because of a lack of lubrication. So how do you prevent this problem from happening?

The Fix For Oil Dilution
First and foremost, check your engine oil frequently. Once a week take a look at your dip stick. If youíre over max oil capacity, change the oil and oil filter immediately. Donít use the 10,000 oil change intervals recommended by your ownerís manual. Instead, change the oil and filter on your 6.4L Powerstroke every 5,000 miles. Also make sure you use high quality oil that meets or exceeds OEM specs


Further reading makes me think the oil dilution problem might be related to the 2008 model?

Anyway, this was what has me thinking oil changes more frequent than recommended might be a good idea.  4 to 5K with regular oil level checking is probably the answer (assuming this is a real problem and not internet myth)
_______________________________________
Sit tall in the saddle, hold you head up high.
Keep your eyes fixed on where the trail meets the sky.
Live like you ainít afraid to die.
Just sit back and enjoy your ride
  - Chris Ledoux

Offline jackelope

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Re: Motor oil question
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2022, 05:14:01 PM »
Asked my diesel guru guy to see what he'd say since we're in the same building now.
Q-
"Does a 6.4 make oil because there's something wrong with it or do they make oil because of the normal regen process?"
A-
"Yes"

Says it could be both ways. He thinks they normally "make" a little oil because of the regen process and also because he thinks that they leak a little bit internally all the time. Went on to say that seeing an extra quart of oil in the engine at an oil change interval is "normal" even though Ford never said out loud that that was normal. He thinks that comes from the pump leaking a little bit over time and not from injectors leaking but it could be injectors leaking a little bit over time.
He said when they're a gallon or 2 overfull, that's when you have to worry about it. That's when the pump fails and when they run away.
He then asked if this was a buddy of mine with a 6.4 and I said kind of. And then he said "tell your buddy to get rid of it."
They have a less-than-amazing reputation over the long period.
He said to change your oil every 5k miles.
He's been a Ford diesel tech for 20+years and has worked on several hunt-wa members' trucks in the past on the side. He knows what he's talking about.
 
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline C-Money

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Re: Motor oil question
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2022, 05:42:54 PM »
Man...a few years back, I almost traded my F350 V10 for a brand new 4 door F350 6.4 diesel. I wanted another manual shift, and this truck was it. But I just couldn't do it. Glad I didn't!
I felt like a one legged cat trying to bury a terd on a frozen pond!

Offline Rob

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Re: Motor oil question
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2022, 06:43:23 PM »
Asked my diesel guru guy to see what he'd say since we're in the same building now.
Q-
"Does a 6.4 make oil because there's something wrong with it or do they make oil because of the normal regen process?"
A-
"Yes"

Says it could be both ways. He thinks they normally "make" a little oil because of the regen process and also because he thinks that they leak a little bit internally all the time. Went on to say that seeing an extra quart of oil in the engine at an oil change interval is "normal" even though Ford never said out loud that that was normal. He thinks that comes from the pump leaking a little bit over time and not from injectors leaking but it could be injectors leaking a little bit over time.
He said when they're a gallon or 2 overfull, that's when you have to worry about it. That's when the pump fails and when they run away.
He then asked if this was a buddy of mine with a 6.4 and I said kind of. And then he said "tell your buddy to get rid of it."
They have a less-than-amazing reputation over the long period.
He said to change your oil every 5k miles.
He's been a Ford diesel tech for 20+years and has worked on several hunt-wa members' trucks in the past on the side. He knows what he's talking about.

Well that is both informative and a bit disconcerting!

Appreciate the reseach and transparent feedback!
_______________________________________
Sit tall in the saddle, hold you head up high.
Keep your eyes fixed on where the trail meets the sky.
Live like you ainít afraid to die.
Just sit back and enjoy your ride
  - Chris Ledoux

Offline spin05

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Re: Motor oil question
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2022, 12:21:35 AM »
While not a Ford i own a dodge ram 3500 Cummins.  I use Rotella oil in the grey bottle semi-synthetic.  I have sent off 2 oil samples for oil analysis to Blackstone labs. I did one at 5000k and one at 7500k.  Both times i was told oil looks awesome and keep up whatever i been doing.  Theres story of guys going to 15k.  I go to 7500K. Use top of the line Fleet guard STRATAPORE oil filters.   Also use a top line Baldwin fuel filter. I change mine once a year but i dont drive my truck much. Baldwin is the smallest micron filter available for my truck. Hope it helps the injectors and pump last longer. So far so good.  Just spend the money on the good filters.

 


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